Vegetarians Losing Weight
Replies
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Interesting about sprouting. We used to grow sprouts to eat, but I think from seeds (alfalfa, though, radish, pea shoots). Never realized that would be much of a protein source.
However, I missed the post before about the raw veganism being related to an ED -- that's actually rather worrisome and I hope you are seeing someone and keeping them informed.1 -
_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »Being a vegetarian is not easy and it's definitely not for everyone. The fact you don't like the veggies makes it even more difficult. How are you feeling in general? Are you well/healthy? Have you had a checkup to see if you're deficient in anything? That might be the case if you're always hungry/craving stuff. What was the reason you became a vegetarian in the first place?
I disagree with the bolded. It's mildly less convenient than eating like most people do (because of social factors, typical restaurant offerings, travel, etc.), but it's really not particularly difficult. If you don't enjoy vegetarian foods, or don't want to invest 3% extra thought in nutrition, you shouldn't be vegetarian. But if you have reason to do it, it's not remotely hard.
I agree that it's not for everyone. Nothing is.7 -
I would agree that eating vegetarian is really not hard (I have done it for long stretches of time, and I personally do find being 100% plant-based hard and also do miss fish and other meats some when being vegetarian). I would be willing to do it and find it not difficult if I felt I had an ethical reason to do it (or didn't care for meat -- when I did it as a lifestyle I was weirdly convinced that cooking meat was hard, especially fish, and was an inexperienced cook, when I did it later just for Lents I had a much more varied veg diet), but after lots of thought and trials I personally don't have an issue with (many) fish or farm-sourced meat and eggs and dairy, although I respect those who do.
It would be harder if you don't like vegetables, of course, and/or beans/lentils, but OP didn't say that.
IMO, for weight loss only, easiest way to cut calories long-term is as an omnivore, since you have more options. I don't think being a vegetarian makes it much more difficult. I think disliking meat and veg (or just veg) probably makes it harder.
In the short-term, cutting out what you are used to eating makes it harder to mindlessly eat lots of calories, no matter how you are cutting them out (WFPB, carnivore, paleo, "clean" (ugh, that stupid term), raw (most of all!), whatever). But it can make it more difficult to maintain if you feel like your diet is really limited and unsatisfying.1 -
I would agree that eating vegetarian is really not hard (I have done it for long stretches of time, and I personally do find being 100% plant-based hard and also do miss fish and other meats some when being vegetarian). I would be willing to do it and find it not difficult if I felt I had an ethical reason to do it (or didn't care for meat -- when I did it as a lifestyle I was weirdly convinced that cooking meat was hard, especially fish, and was an inexperienced cook, when I did it later just for Lents I had a much more varied veg diet), but after lots of thought and trials I personally don't have an issue with (many) fish or farm-sourced meat and eggs and dairy, although I respect those who do.
It would be harder if you don't like vegetables, of course, and/or beans/lentils, but OP didn't say that.
IMO, for weight loss only, easiest way to cut calories long-term is as an omnivore, since you have more options. I don't think being a vegetarian makes it much more difficult. I think disliking meat and veg (or just veg) probably makes it harder.
In the short-term, cutting out what you are used to eating makes it harder to mindlessly eat lots of calories, no matter how you are cutting them out (WFPB, carnivore, paleo, "clean" (ugh, that stupid term), raw (most of all!), whatever). But it can make it more difficult to maintain if you feel like your diet is really limited and unsatisfying.
Absolutely. Every word.3 -
_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »Being a vegetarian is not easy and it's definitely not for everyone. The fact you don't like the veggies makes it even more difficult. How are you feeling in general? Are you well/healthy? Have you had a checkup to see if you're deficient in anything? That might be the case if you're always hungry/craving stuff. What was the reason you became a vegetarian in the first place?
I disagree with the bolded. It's mildly less convenient than eating like most people do (because of social factors, typical restaurant offerings, travel, etc.), but it's really not particularly difficult. If you don't enjoy vegetarian foods, or don't want to invest 3% extra thought in nutrition, you shouldn't be vegetarian. But if you have reason to do it, it's not remotely hard.
I agree that it's not for everyone. Nothing is.
It might be easy if you're not watching macros. Personally I don't think it is easy at all if you're trying to hit specific protein target, I was always struggling, for years. I gave up recently not because of the difficulty, but due to some health issues that according to my endocrinologist were caused by increased consumption of dairy, legumes and products like Quorn. Of course that's just my case, I'm not saying it will be for everyone, some people thrive on it and it's definitely worth trying especially for ethical reasons. But I still don't think it's easy.1 -
Being vegetarian is not hard. Being vegan is not hard. What alternate dimension is this?! Sadly in this ready meal / I want it now / Mcdonalds society anything that requires a small amount of effort or thought or ethics is hard now?
Just eat carbs if you want carbs - only make sure you're getting a nutritionally complete diet with that - i.e. pasta with ketchup is not a healthy dinner. I only say that as you mentioned you are having second helpings because you don't eat the meat - you need to make sure whatever the meat is bringing to everyone else's meal (be it flavour, texture or nutrition) that you are putting in a replacement.
There are carb replacements everywhere, especially for pasta for example have you tried using spiralised veggies instead of noodles / spaghetti or slices of squash or courgette for 'lasagne' sheets? Or using a non wheat pasta? Chickpea, edamame, lentil and pea pastas are pretty widely available and give you an added protein boost.
As a lifelong vegetarian I've never struggled to find nutritious and filling foods, I've never found that there's something I can't make if I want it. I made 'boeuf' bourgignon the other night (using seitan).2 -
_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »Being a vegetarian is not easy and it's definitely not for everyone. The fact you don't like the veggies makes it even more difficult. How are you feeling in general? Are you well/healthy? Have you had a checkup to see if you're deficient in anything? That might be the case if you're always hungry/craving stuff. What was the reason you became a vegetarian in the first place?
I disagree with the bolded. It's mildly less convenient than eating like most people do (because of social factors, typical restaurant offerings, travel, etc.), but it's really not particularly difficult. If you don't enjoy vegetarian foods, or don't want to invest 3% extra thought in nutrition, you shouldn't be vegetarian. But if you have reason to do it, it's not remotely hard.
I agree that it's not for everyone. Nothing is.
It might be easy if you're not watching macros. Personally I don't think it is easy at all if you're trying to hit specific protein target, I was always struggling, for years. I gave up recently not because of the difficulty, but due to some health issues that according to my endocrinologist were caused by increased consumption of dairy, legumes and products like Quorn. Of course that's just my case, I'm not saying it will be for everyone, some people thrive on it and it's definitely worth trying especially for ethical reasons. But I still don't think it's easy.
May I ask what those issues were? I assume it depends what you see an endocrinologist for and how reliable your endocrinologist is. Mine has never once mentioned my diet in relation to my thyroid.
I try to hit macro targets too, and honestly don't struggle.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »Being a vegetarian is not easy and it's definitely not for everyone. The fact you don't like the veggies makes it even more difficult. How are you feeling in general? Are you well/healthy? Have you had a checkup to see if you're deficient in anything? That might be the case if you're always hungry/craving stuff. What was the reason you became a vegetarian in the first place?
I disagree with the bolded. It's mildly less convenient than eating like most people do (because of social factors, typical restaurant offerings, travel, etc.), but it's really not particularly difficult. If you don't enjoy vegetarian foods, or don't want to invest 3% extra thought in nutrition, you shouldn't be vegetarian. But if you have reason to do it, it's not remotely hard.
I agree that it's not for everyone. Nothing is.
It might be easy if you're not watching macros. Personally I don't think it is easy at all if you're trying to hit specific protein target, I was always struggling, for years. I gave up recently not because of the difficulty, but due to some health issues that according to my endocrinologist were caused by increased consumption of dairy, legumes and products like Quorn. Of course that's just my case, I'm not saying it will be for everyone, some people thrive on it and it's definitely worth trying especially for ethical reasons. But I still don't think it's easy.
May I ask what those issues were? I assume it depends what you see an endocrinologist for and how reliable your endocrinologist is. Mine has never once mentioned my diet in relation to my thyroid.
I try to hit macro targets too, and honestly don't struggle.
I was originally referred by my GP who suspected PCOS and hypothyroidism, which endocrinologist then said I don't have. He said my symptoms might be caused by chronic inflammation and advised changing the diet (limiting dairy, legumes, any processed foods including soy products like Quorn, and refined grains to minimum while including good quality, organic 100% grass fed meat and focusing on fresh fruit and veg which I was already doing anyway). I was stubborn and refused to believe it, kept pushing for more tests, as I really didn't want to give up being vegetarian. I don't know if he was right or wrong or how reliable he is, but after just a few weeks of listening to his instructions all my symptoms improved drastically, and the weight started going down too (on more kcal than I was on before).
I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea and think I'm against being a vegetarian or that I think it causes health problems. Like I said previously, some people can thrive on it and it's absolutely worth giving a go, that's just my personal experience. It was hard for me even though I was very organised, and I also know many vegetarians who struggle even more than I did. I'm not saying it's not doable or worth it, it definitely is, I just don't think it's easy.2 -
_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »Being a vegetarian is not easy and it's definitely not for everyone. The fact you don't like the veggies makes it even more difficult. How are you feeling in general? Are you well/healthy? Have you had a checkup to see if you're deficient in anything? That might be the case if you're always hungry/craving stuff. What was the reason you became a vegetarian in the first place?
I disagree with the bolded. It's mildly less convenient than eating like most people do (because of social factors, typical restaurant offerings, travel, etc.), but it's really not particularly difficult. If you don't enjoy vegetarian foods, or don't want to invest 3% extra thought in nutrition, you shouldn't be vegetarian. But if you have reason to do it, it's not remotely hard.
I agree that it's not for everyone. Nothing is.
It might be easy if you're not watching macros. Personally I don't think it is easy at all if you're trying to hit specific protein target, I was always struggling, for years. I gave up recently not because of the difficulty, but due to some health issues that according to my endocrinologist were caused by increased consumption of dairy, legumes and products like Quorn. Of course that's just my case, I'm not saying it will be for everyone, some people thrive on it and it's definitely worth trying especially for ethical reasons. But I still don't think it's easy.
I can accept that it was hard for you, especially given your subsequent post.
My point is that it's not hard, in the abstract, and probably would not be hard for many or most people if they had good reason to do it (but I don't urge it on others, especially if their only motivation is weight loss, as it doesn't help with that in any meaningful way in general (could for some, I guess, if it worked within their personal good preferences to limit calories . . . but it has no magic)).
I say that based on being vegetarian myself for 44+ years, and on having known others along the way. I do have macros goals these days, including a 100g daily protein minimum that I have no real difficulty hitting. I suspect I got a good bit of protein pre-weight-loss on higher calories, though I didn't track then.
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Inflammation is such the buzzword of the moment, and this is a good piece on it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/concerned-about-inflammation-these-foods-may-help/2017/10/31/bf9215b6-b9b2-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.507ecae2f7f61
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@AnnPT77 fair enough, I guess it all comes back to the fact that different things work for different people:)
Just out of pure curiosity, what's your kcal goal? I used to find it very hard to go over 100 and keep it within 1300-1400 kcal range0 -
Same struggle. I was basically a carbitarian. I'm going to try Ketotarian this year, a vegetarian keto diet. High in fat, moderate in protein. Still heavy on the vegetables though. No grains or legumes. I need to try something new as I have gained a ton lately, eating unhealthy carbs like they were going out of style. Ugh.5
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jacksonsoxfan1207 wrote: »Same struggle. I was basically a carbitarian. I'm going to try Ketotarian this year, a vegetarian keto diet. High in fat, moderate in protein. Still heavy on the vegetables though. No grains or legumes. I need to try something new as I have gained a ton lately, eating unhealthy carbs like they were going out of style. Ugh.
As was said upthread, the kind of carbs is less relevant than the quantity of them.3 -
_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »Being a vegetarian is not easy and it's definitely not for everyone. The fact you don't like the veggies makes it even more difficult. How are you feeling in general? Are you well/healthy? Have you had a checkup to see if you're deficient in anything? That might be the case if you're always hungry/craving stuff. What was the reason you became a vegetarian in the first place?
I disagree with the bolded. It's mildly less convenient than eating like most people do (because of social factors, typical restaurant offerings, travel, etc.), but it's really not particularly difficult. If you don't enjoy vegetarian foods, or don't want to invest 3% extra thought in nutrition, you shouldn't be vegetarian. But if you have reason to do it, it's not remotely hard.
I agree that it's not for everyone. Nothing is.
It might be easy if you're not watching macros. Personally I don't think it is easy at all if you're trying to hit specific protein target, I was always struggling, for years. I gave up recently not because of the difficulty, but due to some health issues that according to my endocrinologist were caused by increased consumption of dairy, legumes and products like Quorn. Of course that's just my case, I'm not saying it will be for everyone, some people thrive on it and it's definitely worth trying especially for ethical reasons. But I still don't think it's easy.
May I ask what those issues were? I assume it depends what you see an endocrinologist for and how reliable your endocrinologist is. Mine has never once mentioned my diet in relation to my thyroid.
I try to hit macro targets too, and honestly don't struggle.
I was originally referred by my GP who suspected PCOS and hypothyroidism, which endocrinologist then said I don't have. He said my symptoms might be caused by chronic inflammation and advised changing the diet (limiting dairy, legumes, any processed foods including soy products like Quorn, and refined grains to minimum while including good quality, organic 100% grass fed meat and focusing on fresh fruit and veg which I was already doing anyway). I was stubborn and refused to believe it, kept pushing for more tests, as I really didn't want to give up being vegetarian. I don't know if he was right or wrong or how reliable he is, but after just a few weeks of listening to his instructions all my symptoms improved drastically, and the weight started going down too (on more kcal than I was on before).
I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea and think I'm against being a vegetarian or that I think it causes health problems. Like I said previously, some people can thrive on it and it's absolutely worth giving a go, that's just my personal experience. It was hard for me even though I was very organised, and I also know many vegetarians who struggle even more than I did. I'm not saying it's not doable or worth it, it definitely is, I just don't think it's easy.
Ah, I see. It's possible you have insulin resistance (likely from you description of what happened), and as such do better on a lower carbohydrate diet.
Saying that, and this is just for lurkers, you can still be a vegetarian if you have ethical concerns and eat a low carbohydrate diet while dealing with insulin resistance. The foods you mention don't cause insulin resistance or exacerbate it, and that dietary information, though I'm glad it's helping you, with its emphasis on grass-fed and non-processed, sounds like advice given from personal convictions held by the practitioner. There's no science behind it.
I'm not saying any of this to knock how you're eating because you are personally finding relief from it, and that's a good thing!
I do dispute your contention that it's hard to be a vegetarian though. I recently tried a ketogenic diet trial experiment which restricts carbohydrates quite a bit and still ate as a vegetarian.
So, perhaps it was just hard for you, with the advice you've been given, and your doctor's personal biases to be a vegetarian. At any rate, I agree. Being vegetarian isn't for anyone, and the bottom line is that you're feeling better.5 -
jacksonsoxfan1207 wrote: »Same struggle. I was basically a carbitarian. I'm going to try Ketotarian this year, a vegetarian keto diet. High in fat, moderate in protein. Still heavy on the vegetables though. No grains or legumes. I need to try something new as I have gained a ton lately, eating unhealthy carbs like they were going out of style. Ugh.
You know that if you cut out grains and legumes, you're basically slashing your protein sources. Tofu and tempeh are soy (i.e. legume)-based. Seitan is from vital wheat gluten. And even if we can agree that quinoa is a goosefoot, not a grain, while it's a complete protein, it isn't what I'd consider to be high-protein.3 -
Inflammation is such the buzzword of the moment, and this is a good piece on it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/concerned-about-inflammation-these-foods-may-help/2017/10/31/bf9215b6-b9b2-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.507ecae2f7f6
What a great, well-balanced article. I only wish it had mentioned how inflammatory excess adipose tissue is!2 -
Being vegetarian is not hard. Being vegan is not hard. What alternate dimension is this?! Sadly in this ready meal / I want it now / Mcdonalds society anything that requires a small amount of effort or thought or ethics is hard now?
Just eat carbs if you want carbs - only make sure you're getting a nutritionally complete diet with that - i.e. pasta with ketchup is not a healthy dinner. I only say that as you mentioned you are having second helpings because you don't eat the meat - you need to make sure whatever the meat is bringing to everyone else's meal (be it flavour, texture or nutrition) that you are putting in a replacement.
There are carb replacements everywhere, especially for pasta for example have you tried using spiralised veggies instead of noodles / spaghetti or slices of squash or courgette for 'lasagne' sheets? Or using a non wheat pasta? Chickpea, edamame, lentil and pea pastas are pretty widely available and give you an added protein boost.
As a lifelong vegetarian I've never struggled to find nutritious and filling foods, I've never found that there's something I can't make if I want it. I made 'boeuf' bourgignon the other night (using seitan).
I've been vegan for ten years and I don't consider it particularly challenging anymore, but let's not deny there can be a steep learning curve and that it does make some things more difficult sometimes (travelling, social eating, etc). I don't think much about veganism day-to-day, but I do have to put some extra thought into some circumstances.
When someone talks about vegetarianism or veganism being hard, it's not so much that they're saying it ranks high in the hardest things humans have ever done. It's more like they're pointing out that *relative to the default eating style in our society* it can take some extra planning or effort. It's not a moral failing to notice that.
It's great that you've never struggled to find nutritious or filling foods and I wish everyone had your experience. But sometimes people need some help and when they ask for it, maybe we could give it instead of chiding them. There was so much I didn't know when I went vegan, but I figured out because there were people who were willing to help me.3 -
Oh, I want to add a caveat to the "it's hard to be a vegetarian" outside of the context of the current conversation on the subject.
I think that there is a subset of people who become vegetarians because they're picky eaters. I think this is likely true of any diet that restricts or eliminates food groups, tbh. For people like this, I think it can be hard to be a well-nourished vegetarian.3 -
_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »Being a vegetarian is not easy and it's definitely not for everyone. The fact you don't like the veggies makes it even more difficult. How are you feeling in general? Are you well/healthy? Have you had a checkup to see if you're deficient in anything? That might be the case if you're always hungry/craving stuff. What was the reason you became a vegetarian in the first place?
I disagree with the bolded. It's mildly less convenient than eating like most people do (because of social factors, typical restaurant offerings, travel, etc.), but it's really not particularly difficult. If you don't enjoy vegetarian foods, or don't want to invest 3% extra thought in nutrition, you shouldn't be vegetarian. But if you have reason to do it, it's not remotely hard.
I agree that it's not for everyone. Nothing is.
Completely agree. (As a life long vegetarian.)0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Oh, I want to add a caveat to the "it's hard to be a vegetarian" outside of the context of the current conversation on the subject.
I think that there is a subset of people who become vegetarians because they're picky eaters. I think this is likely true of any diet that restricts or eliminates food groups, tbh. For people like this, I think it can be hard to be a well-nourished vegetarian.
Yeah, I think most of us have met at least one person who only seems to like six or seven things and is also a vegetarian. One of my sisters was like this as a teenager. It seems like she only ever ate plain pasta, iceberg lettuce with french dressing, and candy. Unsurprisingly, vegetarianism didn't really work out for her.
(She's now in her 30s and eats just about anything -- fortunately for her, her food aversions pretty much vanished in her 20s).0 -
jacksonsoxfan1207 wrote: »Same struggle. I was basically a carbitarian. I'm going to try Ketotarian this year, a vegetarian keto diet. High in fat, moderate in protein. Still heavy on the vegetables though. No grains or legumes. I need to try something new as I have gained a ton lately, eating unhealthy carbs like they were going out of style. Ugh.
When I don't get enough protein and fiber I can eat and eat and eat and never feel satisfied. What percent of your calories were coming from protein when you were overeating?1 -
_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »@AnnPT77 fair enough, I guess it all comes back to the fact that different things work for different people:)
Just out of pure curiosity, what's your kcal goal? I used to find it very hard to go over 100 and keep it within 1300-1400 kcal range
I'm in maintenance now, eating 1850 net most days (NEAT probably low 2000s, but I calorie bank). I looked back to when I was losing: There was only a fairly short period where I ate as low as 1300-1400, but had my macros dialed in at what I thought was kinda reasonable, and it looks like most days then were running in 80s-90s. Having gotten better at macros balance over time, I think I could hit 100 consistently on 1400 now, though I don't know whether I'd choose that.3 -
UltraVegAthlete wrote: »I’m fully raw vegan now in order to lose weight. It’s hard in the winter, but I’m determined to lose weight for my marathon. I’m not a big raw veggie eater, but I love plain salads with just lettuce and tomatoes.
If you are raw vegan but don't like raw veggies, what are you eating? Just fruit and lettuce and tomatoes? That's pretty limited and not healthy. Are you at least getting in some sources of protein? (Not sure what that would be, as you need to cook most of the best plant sources -- nuts and seeds, but that's really going to be tough.)
Also, some vegetables have nutrients that are easier to absorb when cooked, so that's worth considering.
You can lose weight eating food that's cooked as well as raw. Like kshama I admire veganism as an ethical choice, but I don't get the raw thing. I think it's too hard to have a diet that provides all you need.
I know. I know all this. And yeah, basically lettuce and fruit (tomatoes are a fruit, but them, too).
I’m trying to be smarter about my diet, but I always fall back on old habits of restricting. It’s a dangerous journey.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »Being a vegetarian is not easy and it's definitely not for everyone. The fact you don't like the veggies makes it even more difficult. How are you feeling in general? Are you well/healthy? Have you had a checkup to see if you're deficient in anything? That might be the case if you're always hungry/craving stuff. What was the reason you became a vegetarian in the first place?
I disagree with the bolded. It's mildly less convenient than eating like most people do (because of social factors, typical restaurant offerings, travel, etc.), but it's really not particularly difficult. If you don't enjoy vegetarian foods, or don't want to invest 3% extra thought in nutrition, you shouldn't be vegetarian. But if you have reason to do it, it's not remotely hard.
I agree that it's not for everyone. Nothing is.
It might be easy if you're not watching macros. Personally I don't think it is easy at all if you're trying to hit specific protein target, I was always struggling, for years. I gave up recently not because of the difficulty, but due to some health issues that according to my endocrinologist were caused by increased consumption of dairy, legumes and products like Quorn. Of course that's just my case, I'm not saying it will be for everyone, some people thrive on it and it's definitely worth trying especially for ethical reasons. But I still don't think it's easy.
May I ask what those issues were? I assume it depends what you see an endocrinologist for and how reliable your endocrinologist is. Mine has never once mentioned my diet in relation to my thyroid.
I try to hit macro targets too, and honestly don't struggle.
I was originally referred by my GP who suspected PCOS and hypothyroidism, which endocrinologist then said I don't have. He said my symptoms might be caused by chronic inflammation and advised changing the diet (limiting dairy, legumes, any processed foods including soy products like Quorn, and refined grains to minimum while including good quality, organic 100% grass fed meat and focusing on fresh fruit and veg which I was already doing anyway). I was stubborn and refused to believe it, kept pushing for more tests, as I really didn't want to give up being vegetarian. I don't know if he was right or wrong or how reliable he is, but after just a few weeks of listening to his instructions all my symptoms improved drastically, and the weight started going down too (on more kcal than I was on before).
I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea and think I'm against being a vegetarian or that I think it causes health problems. Like I said previously, some people can thrive on it and it's absolutely worth giving a go, that's just my personal experience. It was hard for me even though I was very organised, and I also know many vegetarians who struggle even more than I did. I'm not saying it's not doable or worth it, it definitely is, I just don't think it's easy.
Ah, I see. It's possible you have insulin resistance (likely from you description of what happened), and as such do better on a lower carbohydrate diet.
Saying that, and this is just for lurkers, you can still be a vegetarian if you have ethical concerns and eat a low carbohydrate diet while dealing with insulin resistance. The foods you mention don't cause insulin resistance or exacerbate it, and that dietary information, though I'm glad it's helping you, with its emphasis on grass-fed and non-processed, sounds like advice given from personal convictions held by the practitioner. There's no science behind it.
I'm not saying any of this to knock how you're eating because you are personally finding relief from it, and that's a good thing!
I do dispute your contention that it's hard to be a vegetarian though. I recently tried a ketogenic diet trial experiment which restricts carbohydrates quite a bit and still ate as a vegetarian.
So, perhaps it was just hard for you, with the advice you've been given, and your doctor's personal biases to be a vegetarian. At any rate, I agree. Being vegetarian isn't for anyone, and the bottom line is that you're feeling better.
I doubt it's insulin resistance (at least not on it's own, as I do feel better keeping carbs between 100-150g), cause I've tried going low carb as vegetarian and it didn't help much. I didnt start feeling better until I reduced dairy drastically, stopped eating Quorn and slowly introduced 100% grass fed meat (btw clinican's justification for that was the fact that factory farmed meat is full of antibiotics and hormones. For me it's also important that if in have to eat meat, the least I can do is try to source it ethically). Maybe the dairy was the main problem? I honestly don't know, but then again when I went vegan for a while, I didn't feel better either. Maybe I'll find out more when I go for a check up with repeat bloods, until then I'm just happy I'm feeling better.
As for vegetarianism being hard....I'm very surprised (positively) that there's so many people who don't struggle at all. My opinion was based on personal experience as well as observation/conversations with pretty much all vegetarians I know0 -
_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »As for vegetarianism being hard....I'm very surprised (positively) that there's so many people who don't struggle at all. My opinion was based on personal experience as well as observation/conversations with pretty much all vegetarians I know
I know many perceive it as being hard. My parents would act like a meatless dinner was weird (they were fine with meatless breakfast or lunch), and I'm Catholic and always shocked at how many people act like meatless Fridays (with fish!) is a challenge in Lent (like I said I usually do all meatless (and fish is meat) Lent, sometimes 100% plant based). When I first did it (in my 20s, so years ago) it was easy because I had no idea how to cook meat, found veg meals easy, and restaurants here usually have veg options.
But I really don't get it being all that hard. I admit that being in Chicago (so there's usually meatless options, although at most restaurants vegan is a challenge) and being somewhat experienced from doing it for a few years makes a difference. I've tried 100% plant based a few times, both for Lent and as an experiment last Jan, and found it surprisingly difficult given that vegetarian was comfortable for me (part of it was that I didn't use meat substitutes and while I did eat tofu and tempeh and other soy products I generally tried to avoid using it for more than one meal, so I actually had a lower protein goal than normal -- which was still fine (.6 g per lb of healthy weight). I realized how much I was depending on eggs and dairy (the first time I did it I didn't log or care about macros and it was easier, although it was just for Lent).
I ended up going back to omnivore (although much of my meat is fish) after my last vegetarian experiment, since I missed meat and thought about it more at the end of my veg period, but that's because I'm not an ethical veg -- I've thought about the arguments and like the idea of limiting meat and do it, but while I dislike certain ways of raising animals for food am just not convinced that eating animals is wrong. So I lack the motivation. I find dieting easier with meat, since I think meat is really satiating.2 -
_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »As for vegetarianism being hard....I'm very surprised (positively) that there's so many people who don't struggle at all. My opinion was based on personal experience as well as observation/conversations with pretty much all vegetarians I know
I know many perceive it as being hard. My parents would act like a meatless dinner was weird (they were fine with meatless breakfast or lunch), and I'm Catholic and always shocked at how many people act like meatless Fridays (with fish!) is a challenge in Lent (like I said I usually do all meatless (and fish is meat) Lent, sometimes 100% plant based). When I first did it (in my 20s, so years ago) it was easy because I had no idea how to cook meat, found veg meals easy, and restaurants here usually have veg options.
But I really don't get it being all that hard. I admit that being in Chicago (so there's usually meatless options, although at most restaurants vegan is a challenge) and being somewhat experienced from doing it for a few years makes a difference. I've tried 100% plant based a few times, both for Lent and as an experiment last Jan, and found it surprisingly difficult given that vegetarian was comfortable for me (part of it was that I didn't use meat substitutes and while I did eat tofu and tempeh and other soy products I generally tried to avoid using it for more than one meal, so I actually had a lower protein goal than normal -- which was still fine (.6 g per lb of healthy weight). I realized how much I was depending on eggs and dairy (the first time I did it I didn't log or care about macros and it was easier, although it was just for Lent).
I ended up going back to omnivore (although much of my meat is fish) after my last vegetarian experiment, since I missed meat and thought about it more at the end of my veg period, but that's because I'm not an ethical veg -- I've thought about the arguments and like the idea of limiting meat and do it, but while I dislike certain ways of raising animals for food am just not convinced that eating animals is wrong. So I lack the motivation. I find dieting easier with meat, since I think meat is really satiating.
I think a lot of non-vegetarians think of vegetarianism (let alone veganism) as hard, but many people think of things they personally don't do as things they couldn't do successfully. It's "beyond the fringe of audience comprehension".
Many of my mainstream Midwestern US relatives have found my vegetarianism a little eccentric, but they've been quite accommodating. Even friends who are proudly "meatatarian" only tease gently (so I call it "not eating dead animals" in return), and my late husband (hunter as well as meat-eater) was 100% supportive.
I agree with you that practice makes it easier (more automatic, especially), but I don't remember finding it super hard when I started in 1974 . . . and it was way harder in 1974 than now, culturally speaking. But maybe I did it more stupidly (less nutritiously) then (despite "Diet for a Small Planet" - LOL). I can't be sure._aenyeweddien_ wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »Being a vegetarian is not easy and it's definitely not for everyone. The fact you don't like the veggies makes it even more difficult. How are you feeling in general? Are you well/healthy? Have you had a checkup to see if you're deficient in anything? That might be the case if you're always hungry/craving stuff. What was the reason you became a vegetarian in the first place?
I disagree with the bolded. It's mildly less convenient than eating like most people do (because of social factors, typical restaurant offerings, travel, etc.), but it's really not particularly difficult. If you don't enjoy vegetarian foods, or don't want to invest 3% extra thought in nutrition, you shouldn't be vegetarian. But if you have reason to do it, it's not remotely hard.
I agree that it's not for everyone. Nothing is.
It might be easy if you're not watching macros. Personally I don't think it is easy at all if you're trying to hit specific protein target, I was always struggling, for years. I gave up recently not because of the difficulty, but due to some health issues that according to my endocrinologist were caused by increased consumption of dairy, legumes and products like Quorn. Of course that's just my case, I'm not saying it will be for everyone, some people thrive on it and it's definitely worth trying especially for ethical reasons. But I still don't think it's easy.
May I ask what those issues were? I assume it depends what you see an endocrinologist for and how reliable your endocrinologist is. Mine has never once mentioned my diet in relation to my thyroid.
I try to hit macro targets too, and honestly don't struggle.
I was originally referred by my GP who suspected PCOS and hypothyroidism, which endocrinologist then said I don't have. He said my symptoms might be caused by chronic inflammation and advised changing the diet (limiting dairy, legumes, any processed foods including soy products like Quorn, and refined grains to minimum while including good quality, organic 100% grass fed meat and focusing on fresh fruit and veg which I was already doing anyway). I was stubborn and refused to believe it, kept pushing for more tests, as I really didn't want to give up being vegetarian. I don't know if he was right or wrong or how reliable he is, but after just a few weeks of listening to his instructions all my symptoms improved drastically, and the weight started going down too (on more kcal than I was on before).
I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea and think I'm against being a vegetarian or that I think it causes health problems. Like I said previously, some people can thrive on it and it's absolutely worth giving a go, that's just my personal experience. It was hard for me even though I was very organised, and I also know many vegetarians who struggle even more than I did. I'm not saying it's not doable or worth it, it definitely is, I just don't think it's easy.
Ah, I see. It's possible you have insulin resistance (likely from you description of what happened), and as such do better on a lower carbohydrate diet.
Saying that, and this is just for lurkers, you can still be a vegetarian if you have ethical concerns and eat a low carbohydrate diet while dealing with insulin resistance. The foods you mention don't cause insulin resistance or exacerbate it, and that dietary information, though I'm glad it's helping you, with its emphasis on grass-fed and non-processed, sounds like advice given from personal convictions held by the practitioner. There's no science behind it.
I'm not saying any of this to knock how you're eating because you are personally finding relief from it, and that's a good thing!
I do dispute your contention that it's hard to be a vegetarian though. I recently tried a ketogenic diet trial experiment which restricts carbohydrates quite a bit and still ate as a vegetarian.
So, perhaps it was just hard for you, with the advice you've been given, and your doctor's personal biases to be a vegetarian. At any rate, I agree. Being vegetarian isn't for anyone, and the bottom line is that you're feeling better.
I doubt it's insulin resistance (at least not on it's own, as I do feel better keeping carbs between 100-150g), cause I've tried going low carb as vegetarian and it didn't help much. I didnt start feeling better until I reduced dairy drastically, stopped eating Quorn and slowly introduced 100% grass fed meat (btw clinican's justification for that was the fact that factory farmed meat is full of antibiotics and hormones. For me it's also important that if in have to eat meat, the least I can do is try to source it ethically). Maybe the dairy was the main problem? I honestly don't know, but then again when I went vegan for a while, I didn't feel better either. Maybe I'll find out more when I go for a check up with repeat bloods, until then I'm just happy I'm feeling better.
As for vegetarianism being hard....I'm very surprised (positively) that there's so many people who don't struggle at all. My opinion was based on personal experience as well as observation/conversations with pretty much all vegetarians I know
That equally surprises me!
(Please don't think I'm doubting you; I'm not.) I've known a few people who stopped & started vegetarianism, but seemingly mostly out of taste/preference/convenience issues, rather than what I'd call actual difficulty. (Some of them had a tendency to be on-and-off about other hobbies and habits, too.) I've known quite a few who've done it long term. I can think of only one offhand who quit due to health problems. But each of us has a different sort of social circle - sometimes surprisingly different, it seems! 2 -
Vegetarian for 31 years . Never had a problem with a varied balanced diet. When I was a lot bigger I ate a lot of bread cheese and crisps . Now it makes me try different things and concentrate more on what I am putting in my mouth. But I have never felt I am missing out or struggling to get correct nutrients in .1
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I'm a pescatarian looking to lean more towards vegetarian this year. I really need to up my protein intake so looking for any tips that you all have of non soy protein tips 0
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_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »_aenyeweddien_ wrote: »Being a vegetarian is not easy and it's definitely not for everyone. The fact you don't like the veggies makes it even more difficult. How are you feeling in general? Are you well/healthy? Have you had a checkup to see if you're deficient in anything? That might be the case if you're always hungry/craving stuff. What was the reason you became a vegetarian in the first place?
I disagree with the bolded. It's mildly less convenient than eating like most people do (because of social factors, typical restaurant offerings, travel, etc.), but it's really not particularly difficult. If you don't enjoy vegetarian foods, or don't want to invest 3% extra thought in nutrition, you shouldn't be vegetarian. But if you have reason to do it, it's not remotely hard.
I agree that it's not for everyone. Nothing is.
It might be easy if you're not watching macros. Personally I don't think it is easy at all if you're trying to hit specific protein target, I was always struggling, for years. I gave up recently not because of the difficulty, but due to some health issues that according to my endocrinologist were caused by increased consumption of dairy, legumes and products like Quorn. Of course that's just my case, I'm not saying it will be for everyone, some people thrive on it and it's definitely worth trying especially for ethical reasons. But I still don't think it's easy.
May I ask what those issues were? I assume it depends what you see an endocrinologist for and how reliable your endocrinologist is. Mine has never once mentioned my diet in relation to my thyroid.
I try to hit macro targets too, and honestly don't struggle.
I was originally referred by my GP who suspected PCOS and hypothyroidism, which endocrinologist then said I don't have. He said my symptoms might be caused by chronic inflammation and advised changing the diet (limiting dairy, legumes, any processed foods including soy products like Quorn, and refined grains to minimum while including good quality, organic 100% grass fed meat and focusing on fresh fruit and veg which I was already doing anyway). I was stubborn and refused to believe it, kept pushing for more tests, as I really didn't want to give up being vegetarian. I don't know if he was right or wrong or how reliable he is, but after just a few weeks of listening to his instructions all my symptoms improved drastically, and the weight started going down too (on more kcal than I was on before).
I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea and think I'm against being a vegetarian or that I think it causes health problems. Like I said previously, some people can thrive on it and it's absolutely worth giving a go, that's just my personal experience. It was hard for me even though I was very organised, and I also know many vegetarians who struggle even more than I did. I'm not saying it's not doable or worth it, it definitely is, I just don't think it's easy.
Ah, I see. It's possible you have insulin resistance (likely from you description of what happened), and as such do better on a lower carbohydrate diet.
Saying that, and this is just for lurkers, you can still be a vegetarian if you have ethical concerns and eat a low carbohydrate diet while dealing with insulin resistance. The foods you mention don't cause insulin resistance or exacerbate it, and that dietary information, though I'm glad it's helping you, with its emphasis on grass-fed and non-processed, sounds like advice given from personal convictions held by the practitioner. There's no science behind it.
I'm not saying any of this to knock how you're eating because you are personally finding relief from it, and that's a good thing!
I do dispute your contention that it's hard to be a vegetarian though. I recently tried a ketogenic diet trial experiment which restricts carbohydrates quite a bit and still ate as a vegetarian.
So, perhaps it was just hard for you, with the advice you've been given, and your doctor's personal biases to be a vegetarian. At any rate, I agree. Being vegetarian isn't for anyone, and the bottom line is that you're feeling better.
I doubt it's insulin resistance (at least not on it's own, as I do feel better keeping carbs between 100-150g), cause I've tried going low carb as vegetarian and it didn't help much. I didnt start feeling better until I reduced dairy drastically, stopped eating Quorn and slowly introduced 100% grass fed meat (btw clinican's justification for that was the fact that factory farmed meat is full of antibiotics and hormones. For me it's also important that if in have to eat meat, the least I can do is try to source it ethically). Maybe the dairy was the main problem? I honestly don't know, but then again when I went vegan for a while, I didn't feel better either. Maybe I'll find out more when I go for a check up with repeat bloods, until then I'm just happy I'm feeling better.
As for vegetarianism being hard....I'm very surprised (positively) that there's so many people who don't struggle at all. My opinion was based on personal experience as well as observation/conversations with pretty much all vegetarians I know
I think vegetarianism is easier if you are firmly behind the ethics of it. The vegans I knew were nauseated at the thought of eating meat and the idea of animal exploitation made them sad, so eating in a way that made them feel true to their best self was easy for them.
One of my friends became a vegetarian after seeing a pig slaughtered when she was 12 or 13. I think there would be a lot more vegetarians if everyone had that experience.
I'm an omnivore, but I buy meat that comes from animals that were raised more humanely and am eating more plant-based protein.0 -
amyjeanw84 wrote: »I'm a pescatarian looking to lean more towards vegetarian this year. I really need to up my protein intake so looking for any tips that you all have of non soy protein tips
IME, the answers for "what can I do to up my protein intake" are pretty much always in this thread (well, in the spreadsheet the thread links to):
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also
For the veg sources, you need to scroll in the spreadsheet past the mostly meaty/fishy stuff near the top, but the veg sources are there, further down. Find foods you enjoy, and eat more of those, less of something else not as useful to your goals.
If you're allergic to soy, you'll need to skip those, too, of course. There are others.0
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