Thoughts on TDEE calculators and switching from MFP to TDEE.

WeCallThemDayWalkers

I find that TDEE works well for me, WHEN I follow it. For some reason, I tend to obey the MFP style of "eating calories back" more than the "eat this amount no matter what you do." The other issue for me is that I have a number in my head that I know I won't drop my intake below. It just so happens that after I did my TDEE -20%, it was that number. It's also the number recommended by my physician.

A lot of calorie goal/ weight loss is how honest the user *really* is with reporting. You have posted this a million times before, but those bites/sips/licks/tastes really add up but people tend to ignore them. I can only speak for myself, but when I go hard and go honestly, either method gives me results. I am better off with the "eating back calories" if I'm gonna half-*kitten* it because I am limited by my physical activity reporting.

This is such a ramble...

pretty sure this is my exact experience

codycsweet

Thanks for the thoughts. I like TDEE b/c I know what I need to eat every day vs varying depending on my activity level. I do work out 5-6 days a week and along with my Fitbit I get a good look at what my TDEE is and make adjustments as needed. It's amazing how many people don't think about making adjustments if something isn't working or doing a little research.

When I first started I wasn't using TDEE and with the inflated calorie burn I had all of these extra calories that I wasn't eating b/c I was full. I now know from using a HRM that the reason I wasn't able to eat most of the cal back is because the #'s were inflated.

babyluthi

Great post!)

scrapjen

When I actually crunch the numbers ... they do seem to work out about the same to me. But I like the MFP method, seeing the calorie allowance start out low, and then grow as I'm active throughout the day. It really shows me how important the activity is ... that if I am not active, I won't have those extra calories. So even though MFP only gives me 1350 to start the day, I know I'm going to eat closer to 2000 going in. That's the goal in my mind ...

There is a graph on Fitbit showing your total burn for the past 30 days vs your total intake for the past 30 days ... and also your average of both. I find this to be very helpful and motivating for me. I always TRY to keep those lines from crossing, or even touching. I'm not always successful, but it's so helpful for me to see it visually graphed out like that.

I keep them (for my records) on my blog
http://jenbsjourney.blogspot.com/2013/07/june-intake-and-burn-graph.html
http://jenbsjourney.blogspot.com/2013/08/july-look-back.html

thefragile7393

This whole thing confuses me and I don't know which to follow...though I agree they both seem to be the same...I don't know I just find throwing in TDEE with MFP with the BMR completely confusing

fultimers

Bump

Sarauk2sf

I think what most people don't understand is that you are generally grossing the same amount of calories with either method.

If you're allotted 1600 calories and burning 500 working out, your gross calorie intake is 2100.

If your TDEE-20% is 2100 calories, you're grossing 2100 calories.

It's really the exact same thing, just easier for some people to follow. I'll probably do TDEE when I switch to maintenance/bulk.

Perhaps for many people it works out this way, but in many cases my belief is that it does not, which is why people need to actually pay attention to what they are actually eating and compare it to results before trusting a different estimation device.

Most people don't have the education on the issue to make any more of an informed decision on what to eat or what they should do if something isn't working. All they have are these numbers. People tend to give up instead of reassess. The human body is extremely complex and we're trying to turn it into a math equation.

Of course it lies solely on the individual logging their food/drinks and workouts correctly. I thought that was a given.

Many people do not know what to do, which is why this is a post to help people consider what may not be working and what to look into to do something about it. It is also a 'heads up' that if someone is considering changing from the MFP method to the TDEE less x% method, then they should look to actual results rather than just take what an online calculator spits out as gospel. At the end of the day, going from one method to another really is just math. If you are losing 1lb a week on say 1,600 calories on average under the MFP method, then you should lose 1lb a week under the TDEE method, assuming you take a 1lb a week equivalent cut off that TDEE. If the online calculator has you eating 2,000, then the math and therefore the results, will not be the same.

And accurate logging is not a given tbh. I see time and time again people estimating portion sizes, not logging all the time, using measuring cups and not digital scales, selecting inaccurate information from the database and so on.. And that is just the intake side.

SiXiam

This topic is really confusing me because MFP uses a TDEE calculator. That's how it calculates calories when you say how much weight you want to lose. For example right now the MFP TDEE calculator tells me I'm at 2160 calories. My preferred online TDEE calculator over at fitnessfrog says 2150! That's little or no exercise in the calculator.

On the website you can see your MFP TDEE number in the GOALS section.

Sarauk2sf

I really do not use either method as I use my actual results to give me my TDEE and take an appropriate cut from there. This is predicated on having results for a reasonable period of time with a relatively consistent activity level and logging accuracy in order to estimate actual TDEE.

The challenge with this method (or with using the calculators) comes in when you have very inconsistent activity week after week (or inconsistent logging). Having some variability is fine a it all evens itself out in the wash, but having too much variability can make using historic information and applying it to future intake problematic.

I did use a BMF early on when dieting. It was actually pretty accurate for me, but I had not been at a deficit for very long and was a reasonably high BF%, and so and adaptations were minimal, I did not do any cardio to speak of, and I do not have any underlying metabolic issues that I am aware of. These types of devices are the same as online calculators in that they use estimates, albeit more granular, and do not take into account everyone's individual circumstances. I did find it a very useful tool at first to realize just how many more calories we burn proportionately doing non exercise activities, like shopping and just walking around.

Sarauk2sf

This topic is really confusing me because MFP uses a TDEE calculator. That's how it calculates calories when you say how much weight you want to lose. For example right now the MFP TDEE calculator tells me I'm at 2160 calories. My preferred online TDEE calculator over at fitnessfrog says 2150! That's little or no exercise in the calculator.

On the website you can see your MFP TDEE number in the GOALS section.

But those numbers do not go anywhere. You need to over-ride your settings if you are gong to have it impact your targets. You also should not be logging exercise if you use that.

pepperpat64

Sigh. I think I've been doing it wrong. Looks like I should NOT have been eating exercise calories back after all. I think I just read too much info all at once and got confused. Not an unusual occurrence for me! LOL. But it's only a minor setback and easy enough to fix going forward.

SideSteel

Sigh. I think I've been doing it wrong. Looks like I should NOT have been eating exercise calories back after all. I think I just read too much info all at once and got confused. Not an unusual occurrence for me! LOL. But it's only a minor setback and easy enough to fix going forward.

If you are using an external TDEE calculator to determine your intake needs you would not add back exercise calories on top of this. If you are using MFP's default estimation tool to determine your intake needs you should be eating back a portion of those exercise calories.

See here for clarification:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/818082-exercise-calories-again-wtf

happycauseIride

Great info. I will be watching responses.

AbbeyDove

And accurate logging is not a given tbh. I see time and time again people estimating portion sizes, not logging all the time, using measuring cups and not digital scales, selecting inaccurate information from the database and so on.. And that is just the intake side.

This is something I struggle with even using MFP. I have a digital scale now, but finding an entry that's in ounces or grams for a particular food is a challenge, particularly since I don't eat that much processed food. A lot of what I eat is unprocessed or homemade. Does anyone know of a key word or a quickly effective way to find foods *by weight* on MFP?

bumblebums

And accurate logging is not a given tbh. I see time and time again people estimating portion sizes, not logging all the time, using measuring cups and not digital scales, selecting inaccurate information from the database and so on.. And that is just the intake side.

This is something I struggle with even using MFP. I have a digital scale now, but finding an entry that's in ounces or grams for a particular food is a challenge, particularly since I don't eat that much processed food. A lot of what I eat is unprocessed or homemade. Does anyone know of a key word or a quickly effective way to find foods *by weight* on MFP?

Just add "USDA" to your search. Most raw ingredients in the database can be (and have been) checked against the USDA nutrient database, which gives information for 100 g portions or common serving units.

happycauseIride

This whole thing confuses me and I don't know which to follow...though I agree they both seem to be the same...I don't know I just find throwing in TDEE with MFP with the BMR completely confusing

Me too. A lot of information that get me overwhelmed and confused. This calculator says one thing, that calculator says another.

crista_b

Interesting take on this. The important thing is for people to understand why they are eating x number of calories, whether it's from MFP's calculations or a TDEE calculator instead of blindly taking whatever number pops up and running with it without learning how/why those numbers are used.

Personally, I did a TDEE calculator because it was easier for me than trying to make sure I ate back exercise calories on some days. Plus, when I was doing MFP, I hadn't bought an HRM yet so my calorie burns were based off the MFP numbers which we all know can be wildly inaccurate. Therefore, I was eating back my exercise calories (as you're supposed to with the MFP deficit), but I was probably overeating which is why I was barely losing anything for weeks on end. I switched to TDEE and use an HRM (even though I don't eat back exercise calories now; I just use it to see where I'm at), and I have been consistently losing. I found what works for me because I did the research and testing for myself.

etoiles_argentees

Dead on the mark SideSteel. I've been doing it for a while. I am fanatical about making sure I log everything in MFP's food diary and weigh myself on a regular basis under identical conditions. Take the food you've eaten from Time A to now, add in the weight you've lost in that exact same time period and you can actually figure out your own TDEE. The problem with the calculators is that are far too generic and don't work for everyone. I was over at IIFYM yesterday and played with the "RMR" calculator. It said my RMR, based on age and weight was about 1475 calories. But I had it tested a month or so ago at my gym using Korr. The R.D. who administered the test is someone I've worked with for a couple of years and trust her (yes the gym has an R.D. on staff for consultations). It calculated my RMR at 2230. A full 775 calories higher. Just a fast metabolism I guess. But that works out to 1.5 pounds a week difference.

So I've started calculating my own TDEE using the actual data rather than some approximation by calculator. And it works. And it isn't hard at all. But you have to know you are accurately recording everything that you eat.

I get that. Every time my RMR was different. I just eat and list it the next day, my calories needed vary so much.

ladynocturne

Perhaps for many people it works out this way, but in many cases my belief is that it does not, which is why people need to actually pay attention to what they are actually eating and compare it to results before trusting a different estimation device.

Most people don't have the education on the issue to make any more of an informed decision on what to eat or what they should do if something isn't working. All they have are these numbers. People tend to give up instead of reassess. The human body is extremely complex and we're trying to turn it into a math equation.

Of course it lies solely on the individual logging their food/drinks and workouts correctly. I thought that was a given.

Many people do not know what to do, which is why this is a post to help people consider what may not be working and what to look into to do something about it. It is also a 'heads up' that if someone is considering changing from the MFP method to the TDEE less x% method, then they should look to actual results rather than just take what an online calculator spits out as gospel. At the end of the day, going from one method to another really is just math. If you are losing 1lb a week on say 1,600 calories on average under the MFP method, then you should lose 1lb a week under the TDEE method, assuming you take a 1lb a week equivalent cut off that TDEE. If the online calculator has you eating 2,000, then the math and therefore the results, will not be the same.

And accurate logging is not a given tbh. I see time and time again people estimating portion sizes, not logging all the time, using measuring cups and not digital scales, selecting inaccurate information from the database and so on.. And that is just the intake side.

Not saying this post isn't helpful or that the advice isn't sound.

Was just adding my two cents to why while the idea is awesome, that there are a lot of people on this website not willing to take the time to understand for themselves or learn anything about the human body.

What I meant that for the sake of this discussion, we should take the variable of people not logging accurately out. I think it's a little obvious that if someone isn't logging correctly, that the point of TDEE or MFP is moot.

GlutenFreeWench

This is a post that has taught me more this morning than i realized I needed to know.

And it needs to show up in my news feed<3

TaxPrepLiz

I think you're right. I definitely like to see the deficit and eat my calories back. It just keeps me better motivated and thats what its all about, staying on track. People need to do what works best for them based on all available information.

etoiles_argentees

I think what most people don't understand is that you are generally grossing the same amount of calories with either method.

If you're allotted 1600 calories and burning 500 working out, your gross calorie intake is 2100.

If your TDEE-20% is 2100 calories, you're grossing 2100 calories.

It's really the exact same thing, just easier for some people to follow. I'll probably do TDEE when I switch to maintenance/bulk.

Perhaps for many people it works out this way, but in many cases my belief is that it does not, which is why people need to actually pay attention to what they are actually eating and compare it to results before trusting a different estimation device.

Most people don't have the education on the issue to make any more of an informed decision on what to eat or what they should do if something isn't working. All they have are these numbers. People tend to give up instead of reassess. The human body is extremely complex and we're trying to turn it into a math equation.

Of course it lies solely on the individual logging their food/drinks and workouts correctly. I thought that was a given.

Many people do not know what to do, which is why this is a post to help people consider what may not be working and what to look into to do something about it. It is also a 'heads up' that if someone is considering changing from the MFP method to the TDEE less x% method, then they should look to actual results rather than just take what an online calculator spits out as gospel. At the end of the day, going from one method to another really is just math. If you are losing 1lb a week on say 1,600 calories on average under the MFP method, then you should lose 1lb a week under the TDEE method, assuming you take a 1lb a week equivalent cut off that TDEE. If the online calculator has you eating 2,000, then the math and therefore the results, will not be the same.

And accurate logging is not a given tbh. I see time and time again people estimating portion sizes, not logging all the time, using measuring cups and not digital scales, selecting inaccurate information from the database and so on.. And that is just the intake side.

and what sara said. I don't have a food scale but I used 2 Tablespoons of salad dressing all the time, when measured it was 5. You don't even want to know how much cereal I was eating.

stillnot2late

This whole thing confuses me and I don't know which to follow...though I agree they both seem to be the same...I don't know I just find throwing in TDEE with MFP with the BMR completely confusing

This is a very interesting post, and I am reading everything with my mouth hanging open. I am from the old days of "eat at a deficit" - OR - eat soso amount of calories and exercise". Those are the old old days. I wanted to get modern so I tried doing the TDEE and I gained 12 pounds, because I had no idea what I was doing.

Just reading about it is fascinating, but I am also, Completely Confused. Rock on young people!

Wow Side Steel - is that YOU on that picture? wow

talaysia3

I guess I am one of those people who is still learning. I recently changed from eating MFP's recommendation of 1260 calories to eating at my TDEE - 20% at 1989 calories. I was losing 1-2lbs a week with MFP's way and eating back my exercise calories, but I was starving, drained, and was finding it hard to complete the day. Which is why I started looking into using the TDEE method. I can focus on eating the same calories and adjusting every 5lbs or so. I feel more energized and I am able to complete the day and no longer starving. But I have been gaining about a pound a week using this method, but I have been losing inches...so I am a little confused.

I have a desk job for 8 hours of the day...and I walk/jog 30-40 mins 3 days a week and about 20 mins of 30 day shred 3 times a week with 2 rest days. (One of the days I do both)

I used Scooby's calculator to get my TDEE of 2486 MFP says my daily activity is 2440 which is not too far off.

Does this make sense that I am gaining after switching (2 weeks ago) but losing inches? Do I need to allow 6 weeks for my body to adjust before the lbs start to come off?

Liz_Mfp

I have not been exercising, at all
Some days I still do not exercise, at all.
My job is seated, all day, desk work.
Sometimes there is OverTime sitting even longer

For a 500 calorie deficit,
Can I just use the Calories Number from "Scooby Sedentary to maintain"
and use a combo of reduced Food Calories and Exercise to achieve that 500-deficit each day?

silken555

I recently made the switch to TDEE. I'm going to be monitoring my results extra carefully in the next 4 weeks to see if it's a good fit. If it isn't I will lower my intake and continue monitoring...:)

I am SOOOOO grateful to the knowledgeable people here. It's because of you I can keep on trucking!

heybales

I'm having success maintaining using the TDEE method, but my change in calorie goals was a modest one -- I went from eating 1550 plus my exercise calories using the MFP model to 1750 using TDEE.

I used an online TDEE calculator that I can't find now, but it included a section to break down the amount of time I do all kinds of activities during a 24 hour period in order to calculate an estimated energy expenditure (i.e. 8 hours sleeping, 1.5 hours preparing food, 8 hours desk job, etc.), rather than just using basic categories of sedentary/lightly active/active. Anyone know the site I'm remembering?

http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/

Or
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

heybales

This topic is really confusing me because MFP uses a TDEE calculator. That's how it calculates calories when you say how much weight you want to lose. For example right now the MFP TDEE calculator tells me I'm at 2160 calories. My preferred online TDEE calculator over at fitnessfrog says 2150! That's little or no exercise in the calculator.

On the website you can see your MFP TDEE number in the GOALS section.

Well, it's not really a TDEE calculator, as exercise is not expected to be included, and the multipliers may not go up high enough for really active folks.

TDEE as everything included, which means exercise too. So you could call MFP non-exercise TDEE, or as they call it - maintenance.

And yes, you selected Sedentary on both sites.
MFP uses 1.25 x BMR
TDEE table uses 1.2 x BMR

And likely different BMR's too if you didn't select the same.

Seesawboomerang

TDEE gives me slightly more calories, but expects me to be a little more committed to exercise.

Not sure which I favour so far. Generally I know I need to eat less and move more :bigsmile:

heybales

I guess I am one of those people who is still learning. I recently changed from eating MFP's recommendation of 1260 calories to eating at my TDEE - 20% at 1989 calories. I was losing 1-2lbs a week with MFP's way and eating back my exercise calories, but I was starving, drained, and was finding it hard to complete the day. Which is why I started looking into using the TDEE method. I can focus on eating the same calories and adjusting every 5lbs or so. I feel more energized and I am able to complete the day and no longer starving. But I have been gaining about a pound a week using this method, but I have been losing inches...so I am a little confused.

I have a desk job for 8 hours of the day...and I walk/jog 30-40 mins 3 days a week and about 20 mins of 30 day shred 3 times a week with 2 rest days. (One of the days I do both)

I used Scooby's calculator to get my TDEE of 2486 MFP says my daily activity is 2440 which is not too far off.

Does this make sense that I am gaining after switching (2 weeks ago) but losing inches? Do I need to allow 6 weeks for my body to adjust before the lbs start to come off?

Probably means your body for the exercise you do is finally getting enough resources to do something with, whereas before it was a choice, repair muscle used or grow hair and replace skin?

Only glucose stores with water weight add up that fast while losing inches of fat, as well as water retained in muscle for repair from a good strong workout.
Which if you were tired before, maybe wasn't happening well at all.

Need about a months worth of data with no change to workout to decide if you are at right level.

Did you ever compare prior eating levels to what TDEE Deficit method is doing now? You may have increased too much.