Thoughts on TDEE calculators and switching from MFP to TDEE.

Luv2Smile55

Bump for later reading.

heybales

I have not been exercising, at all
Some days I still do not exercise, at all.
My job is seated, all day, desk work.
Sometimes there is OverTime sitting even longer

For a 500 calorie deficit,
Can I just use the Calories Number from "Scooby Sedentary to maintain"
and use a combo of reduced Food Calories and Exercise to achieve that 500-deficit each day?

Why not do the MFP method and get the same thing.

Set activity level to sedentary, weight loss to 1 lb weekly.

Eat back your exercise calories.

You now get 500 cal deficit everyday, exercise or not.

You can pretend half of them were caused by exercise if you desire.

TheCaren

I used MFP's calculator for some time until I read In Place of a Road Map. I decided to check out this TDEE thing when my weight loss stalled at one point. "If what you're doing isn't working, do something else", was my thinking. I did TDEE minus 20% and then didn't have to worry about eating back exercise calories and gee does housecleaning really burn that many calories etc. So for me, TDEE minus 15- 20% was ideal. I bounced around between that number and MFPs original number just to shake things up. I don't know that there's anything scientific to support that part of my plan, but I've been at goal weight (actually below) since March. So I think it worked out okay...

ksy1969

bump to read later

TheCaren

I have not been exercising, at all
Some days I still do not exercise, at all.
My job is seated, all day, desk work.
Sometimes there is OverTime sitting even longer

For a 500 calorie deficit,
Can I just use the Calories Number from "Scooby Sedentary to maintain"
and use a combo of reduced Food Calories and Exercise to achieve that 500-deficit each day?

Why not do the MFP method and get the same thing.

Set activity level to sedentary, weight loss to 1 lb weekly.

Eat back your exercise calories.

You now get 500 cal deficit everyday, exercise or not.

You can pretend half of them were caused by exercise if you desire.

The problem with "eating back your exercise calories" is I don't know that MFP has the best method for calculating calories burned and it's easy to fool ourselves into thinking we're burning more than we are. The benefit of TDEE with a 15-20% deficit is you don't have to figure out whether or not washing the windows was heavy or light cleaning, and whether or not you realistically burned 1500 calories on the elyptical in an hour (I've seen some really crazy calorie burn posts that make me think, 'really? is that even possible'?). That's what I liked about using TDEE with a 15-20% deficit.

But having said that, everyone needs to follow a method that they can stick with and that works for them. So if MFP is it, then go for it!

janatarnhem

Thank you for stating this...It is so easy to make this change without t, like you say , sufficient information! I did this exact thing...and started to gain. Got demoralised and stopped eating and exercising for a while!

So cheers for this!:drinker:

LBNOakland

Thanks to all you knowledgeable people for imparting your knowledge!!! I really appreciate all of the help!! :flowerforyou:

Liz_Mfp

do the MFP -- Set activity level to sedentary, weight loss to 1 lb weekly.

Because MFP will not go lower than 1,200 calories, no matter what we ask it to "lose per week"
:-)
But I see what you are saying.
For a TDEE-sedentary-to-maintain
I could Manually set it for
1,000 calories per day (500 deficit)
and eat back my exercise calories

That's probably easiest.
I forgot why I didn't want to do that or maybe I hadn't thought about it :-)
Thank you!

Liz_Mfp

I forgot why I didn't want to do that or maybe I hadn't thought about it :-)

I think I just remembered why
I think it was re-adjusting my macros and that mixed me up
:-)

walleymama

I, too, was happy to read this today. I was using MFP method at first, then switched to TDEE, now back to MFP with some considerations. I cannot agree more that experience and careful measuring is the only way to determine what is right for each one of us. I'm a bit of a spreadsheet geek so I enjoy the process of documenting each day's data.

I now have 3 weeks of data and I have enjoyed mulling it over. I've decided that I really need to look at total calories rather than net. The "problem" with MFP is if you have a day where you do a ton of exercise you can end up eating a lot of calories. This happened to me a few times this past week and no surprise, the scales are climbing.

I've decided to continue using the MFP system but I'm not going to look at net calories. Instead I'm only focussing on total calories and sticking to that regardless of how much I exercise that day. The goal takes into account my usual level of exercise, and now I'm not tempted to go out for a bike ride just so I can have an extra something to eat! ;-)

Emilie04444

Yeah, I concur. Great post! I too, fell victim to this very thing about a year ago. I had been losing without counting calories and then when I started doing MFP, I began to gain. I couldn't figure out what the problem was initially.

Uh me too. I was losing weight BEFORE I joined MFP and became so calorie focused. I think that it's all about consistency with whatever you chose and monitor for change. My TDEE - 20% is below my BMR, so I have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing lol...! I guess I am doing TDEE -15 and exercising to make up the difference.

I DID put my activity level at sedentary so whatever activity I do is icing on the nonexistent cake. I think if ppl do TDEE, put your activity level on sedentary unless you KNOW that you will do the allotted amount of exercise per week. When I switched to TDEE, i had my level on light and it was a fair amount of calories added on. I was happy to be eating more, but had to be honest with myself. Now I am exercising more consistently under sedentary. Go figure

Emilie04444

I, too, was happy to read this today. I was using MFP method at first, then switched to TDEE, now back to MFP with some considerations. I cannot agree more that experience and careful measuring is the only way to determine what is right for each one of us. I'm a bit of a spreadsheet geek so I enjoy the process of documenting each day's data.

I now have 3 weeks of data and I have enjoyed mulling it over. I've decided that I really need to look at total calories rather than net. The "problem" with MFP is if you have a day where you do a ton of exercise you can end up eating a lot of calories. This happened to me a few times this past week and no surprise, the scales are climbing.

I've decided to continue using the MFP system but I'm not going to look at net calories. Instead I'm only focussing on total calories and sticking to that regardless of how much I exercise that day. The goal takes into account my usual level of exercise, and now I'm not tempted to go out for a bike ride just so I can have an extra something to eat! ;-)

Or have a glass of wine to celebrate an exercise session, lol. I focus on total as well but mainly because I have no idea where those estimates come from with the calories burned. I'd rather not eat them back because I could be eating more than I really burned.

heybales

I have not been exercising, at all
Some days I still do not exercise, at all.
My job is seated, all day, desk work.
Sometimes there is OverTime sitting even longer

For a 500 calorie deficit,
Can I just use the Calories Number from "Scooby Sedentary to maintain"
and use a combo of reduced Food Calories and Exercise to achieve that 500-deficit each day?

Why not do the MFP method and get the same thing.

Set activity level to sedentary, weight loss to 1 lb weekly.

Eat back your exercise calories.

You now get 500 cal deficit everyday, exercise or not.

You can pretend half of them were caused by exercise if you desire.

The problem with "eating back your exercise calories" is I don't know that MFP has the best method for calculating calories burned and it's easy to fool ourselves into thinking we're burning more than we are. The benefit of TDEE with a 15-20% deficit is you don't have to figure out whether or not washing the windows was heavy or light cleaning, and whether or not you realistically burned 1500 calories on the elyptical in an hour (I've seen some really crazy calorie burn posts that make me think, 'really? is that even possible'?). That's what I liked about using TDEE with a 15-20% deficit.

But having said that, everyone needs to follow a method that they can stick with and that works for them. So if MFP is it, then go for it!

Very true, only reason I suggested MFP method to that post - no exercise, long sitting hours, no exercise.

With that kind of routine, I'm betting any exercise will be walking, and MFP for walking, if you hit the speeds shown and are flat, are more accurate than HRM, since weight is all that matters.

Girlrose

I had never heard of TDEE until seeing this post, so I decided to google it.

I discovered that my TDEE is 2031. My jaw dropped. I usually eat 700-1000 calories LESS than that every day. Am I unintentionally putting my body into starvation mode? I go by an "eat when I'm hungry" approach to intake and that often lands me at a relatively low number of calories consumed.

leebesstoad

I had never heard of TDEE until seeing this post, so I decided to google it.

I discovered that my TDEE is 2031. My jaw dropped. I usually eat 700-1000 calories LESS than that every day. Am I unintentionally putting my body into starvation mode? I go by an "eat when I'm hungry" approach to intake and that often lands me at a relatively low number of calories consumed.

No, you won't be putting your metabolism into starvation mode at 700-1000 calories below TDEE. Don't worry about that.

leebesstoad

The real problem I have with TDEE, and with MFP to a lesser degree, is the generalities they use. First, you cannot say 2 people of exactly the same age, height and weight will have exactly the same BMR. Everyone's metabolism is different. It may get you close, but it is still a gross appoximization. Then, the biggest problem with TDEE is the exercise part of the equation: light exercise, moderate exercise, heavy. Everyone has a different idea of what that is to them. Someone may think doing 5 days a week of Prancersize is a very heavy workout. Some may think 3 days a week running 20 miles a day is light. Again, it is too general to give specific calorie recommendations to be taken completely at face value with constant and careful monitoring.

What Sidesteel I think is advocating (please correct me if I'm wrong), and what I do periodically, is take the actual food data entered into MFP, add in weight loss (or gain) over an identical period of time, and calculate your actual TDEE based upon your own body's results. To do this, you have to be as accurate and honest in your logging of your food as possible.

Say over a 7 day period you consume 10,500 calories and you lose a pound (or 3500 calories), you know you're actual TDEE is 2000 calories/day.

Of course, if you are math-phobic, don't keep accurate food logs, haven't been doing it long enough, or just want to do it the easy way, choose whichever one is working for you. If one is working for you, don't change. But when it stops, don't be pigheaded and refuse to try something different.

arnpjenn

Thank you so much for all the wonderful information.

I am in starvation mode as well & no wonder I've been sitting at this frickin' plateau forever! MFP had my caloric needs at 1772 to lose a pound a week (current weight 225). I work out 3 days/week with cardio (40+ high intensity) & 2 days of weight training (HITT) and have been faithful measuring/weighing and logging all food going into my mouth. I have tried very low carb & have recently started carb cycling. I have not been eating back my exercise calories everyday. Over the past 13 years I've gone from 313# down to 225# - despite gaining close to 90# with both pregnancies! I desparately want to hit my 100# mark & then keep going! ...and I'm so close.

This has helped me to realize my BMR is 1760 & TDEE 2420 (with chosing light activitity). My TDEE -20% is 1936

After reading this Monday, I've increased to my TDEE for a week to "reset" my weight loss clock and then chug along.

Thank you again!

julysbaby

Thank you so much for all the wonderful information.

I am in starvation mode as well & no wonder I've been sitting at this frickin' plateau forever! MFP had my caloric needs at 1772 to lose a pound a week (current weight 225). I work out 3 days/week with cardio (40+ high intensity) & 2 days of weight training (HITT) and have been faithful measuring/weighing and logging all food going into my mouth. I have tried very low carb & have recently started carb cycling. I have not been eating back my exercise calories everyday. Over the past 13 years I've gone from 313# down to 225# - despite gaining close to 90# with both pregnancies! I desparately want to hit my 100# mark & then keep going! ...and I'm so close.

This has helped me to realize my BMR is 1760 & TDEE 2420 (with chosing light activitity). My TDEE -20% is 1936

After reading this Monday, I've increased to my TDEE for a week to "reset" my weight loss clock and then chug along.

Thank you again!

arnpjenn, you might want to check out the Eat More to Weigh Less group here on MFP. It's also known as EM2WL What a great wealth of information they have for you. Good luck!

SideSteel

Thank you so much for all the wonderful information.

I am in starvation mode as well & no wonder I've been sitting at this frickin' plateau forever! MFP had my caloric needs at 1772 to lose a pound a week (current weight 225). I work out 3 days/week with cardio (40+ high intensity) & 2 days of weight training (HITT) and have been faithful measuring/weighing and logging all food going into my mouth. I have tried very low carb & have recently started carb cycling. I have not been eating back my exercise calories everyday. Over the past 13 years I've gone from 313# down to 225# - despite gaining close to 90# with both pregnancies! I desparately want to hit my 100# mark & then keep going! ...and I'm so close.

This has helped me to realize my BMR is 1760 & TDEE 2420 (with chosing light activitity). My TDEE -20% is 1936

After reading this Monday, I've increased to my TDEE for a week to "reset" my weight loss clock and then chug along.

Thank you again!

I'm curious how (or if) my original post lead you to the above conclusions.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope your diet break works, but I'd encourage you to re-read the original post, as it appears to me that you are doing exactly what I'm suggesting not to do.

Sarauk2sf

Thank you so much for all the wonderful information.

I am in starvation mode as well & no wonder I've been sitting at this frickin' plateau forever! MFP had my caloric needs at 1772 to lose a pound a week (current weight 225). I work out 3 days/week with cardio (40+ high intensity) & 2 days of weight training (HITT) and have been faithful measuring/weighing and logging all food going into my mouth. I have tried very low carb & have recently started carb cycling. I have not been eating back my exercise calories everyday. Over the past 13 years I've gone from 313# down to 225# - despite gaining close to 90# with both pregnancies! I desparately want to hit my 100# mark & then keep going! ...and I'm so close.

This has helped me to realize my BMR is 1760 & TDEE 2420 (with chosing light activitity). My TDEE -20% is 1936

After reading this Monday, I've increased to my TDEE for a week to "reset" my weight loss clock and then chug along.

Thank you again!

You will not be in 'starvation mode' (whichever definition you want to use) at that intake.

Do you weigh all your food where possible using a digital scale? Do you accurately log all your food, even condiments etc.

arnpjenn

I'm not saying that your initial post lead me to figuring out my TDEE. I get what you're saying as far as calculating a targic caloric intake based on average daily intake by looking at your MFP history. I enjoyed the discussion by all with calculating daily goals.

As far as "starvation mode"... if I am consuming 1700ish calories/day & burning an average of 400calories/day. Calculating a TDEE with no activity is 2112.... my deficit would be around 800/day (also figuring in my exercise calories). My BMR is 1760. Why wouldn't this be considered a "starvation mode?"

arnpjenn

I do weigh all food & measure out everything that goes into my mouth (including condiments). All with the exception of a 4 day cruise we took. But even on the cruise, I made what I considered healthy decisions & went to the gym while I was on the ship & climbed the stairs instead of taking the elevator.

Just 3 weeks ago I started incorporting the carb cycling with a "cheat day" on Sunday (but still logging & tracking). Sunday's I have been eating around 2500cal/day.

I really am trying to figure out where to go from here because obviously what I'm doing right now is not working for me.

SideSteel

I'm not saying that your initial post lead me to figuring out my TDEE. I get what you're saying as far as calculating a targic caloric intake based on average daily intake by looking at your MFP history. I enjoyed the discussion by all with calculating daily goals.

As far as "starvation mode"... if I am consuming 1700ish calories/day & burning an average of 400calories/day. Calculating a TDEE with no activity is 2112.... my deficit would be around 800/day (also figuring in my exercise calories). My BMR is 1760. Why wouldn't this be considered a "starvation mode?"

If you are eating at that level for several weeks and you are not losing weight then you are not in a caloric deficit. You are very likely eating at maintenance.

You think your BMR is 1760 because an online calculator told you so. In my original post I am suggesting that putting your faith in an online calculator and making hard decisions based on this without looking at the reality of the situation is where people tend to go wrong. The reality of your situation (in my opinion) is that your energy intake very very closely matches your energy expenditure.

Having said all of that, you can still do a diet break if you want to. There's no harm in it aside from the potential gain in weight that will likely happen initially.

If I were in your shoes though, I'd put all my emphasis on accurate logging of food intake for the next two weeks, and reduce intake to about 1650, monitor results and move on from there.


Secondarily, adaptive responses to dieting do exist but there is no starvation mode.

Sarauk2sf

I'm not saying that your initial post lead me to figuring out my TDEE. I get what you're saying as far as calculating a targic caloric intake based on average daily intake by looking at your MFP history. I enjoyed the discussion by all with calculating daily goals.

As far as "starvation mode"... if I am consuming 1700ish calories/day & burning an average of 400calories/day. Calculating a TDEE with no activity is 2112.... my deficit would be around 800/day (also figuring in my exercise calories). My BMR is 1760. Why wouldn't this be considered a "starvation mode?"

What are you defining as starvation mode? What do you mean by it?

However, an 800 calorie deficit at over 200lb is not a large deficit at all. That being, if you are not losing, you are not at a deficit (water weight fluctuations aside). Having a historic 800 cal deficit would not stress your body so much as to stop you losing.

What are your macros?

arnpjenn

For the past 2 months- my average:
Carbs: 28%
Protein: 30%
Fats: 42%

HeidiCooksSupper

I tend to think a lot of the devil is in the details. Logging calories in precisely is not easy. Estimates can be wildly off, even with the best intentions and sincere attempts to use things like food scales and measuring cups for everything.

When one reads up on how the calorie counts are developed for foods, you realize that no amount of precision in measuring at home will result in exact calorie counts. It is always an estimate based on USDA averages and certain assumptions about how the macros are digested.

In addition, we each differ as individuals. Even if you and I have identical heights, ages, and weights, we are unlikely to burn the same amount of calories on a daily basis.

That being said, TDEE-x% is a good place to start and then adjust for what works for you as the OP said. Same thing for the mix of macros that works for you and what foods you avoid or embrace.

There are certain underlying truths. Eating fewer calories than you use and moving more results in weight loss. Combine that with a nutritious diet and you will be healthier.

aakaakaak

argumentum ad auctoritatem - Appeal from authority

DO NOT trust an online tool to tell you what your body will tell you for free. If your body says "I'm gaining weight", you're eating at a surplus. If your body says "I'm not losing any weight", you're eating at maintenance. If your body says "I'm losing weight", then you're eating at a deficit.

MFP, and TDEE calculators, and other online tools are general guidelines to get you in the ballpark. Your own body is the deciding factor. If your body is fat, guess what? You're fat. If a body fat calculator says your fat and you look like Sarauk2sf or SideSteel, guess what? You're not fat.

Super simple stuff.

DO use MFP and IIFYM and TDEE and [insert acronym here] as tracking tools and general guidelines. That's what they're meant for. Do not appeal to their authority.

talaysia3

I guess I am one of those people who is still learning. I recently changed from eating MFP's recommendation of 1260 calories to eating at my TDEE - 20% at 1989 calories. I was losing 1-2lbs a week with MFP's way and eating back my exercise calories, but I was starving, drained, and was finding it hard to complete the day. Which is why I started looking into using the TDEE method. I can focus on eating the same calories and adjusting every 5lbs or so. I feel more energized and I am able to complete the day and no longer starving. But I have been gaining about a pound a week using this method, but I have been losing inches...so I am a little confused.

I have a desk job for 8 hours of the day...and I walk/jog 30-40 mins 3 days a week and about 20 mins of 30 day shred 3 times a week with 2 rest days. (One of the days I do both)

I used Scooby's calculator to get my TDEE of 2486 MFP says my daily activity is 2440 which is not too far off.

Does this make sense that I am gaining after switching (2 weeks ago) but losing inches? Do I need to allow 6 weeks for my body to adjust before the lbs start to come off?

Probably means your body for the exercise you do is finally getting enough resources to do something with, whereas before it was a choice, repair muscle used or grow hair and replace skin?

Only glucose stores with water weight add up that fast while losing inches of fat, as well as water retained in muscle for repair from a good strong workout.
Which if you were tired before, maybe wasn't happening well at all.

Need about a months worth of data with no change to workout to decide if you are at right level.

Did you ever compare prior eating levels to what TDEE Deficit method is doing now? You may have increased too much.

Thanks...that's about what I'm thinking as well...I will stick it out and see what happens.
I am eating an average of 250 calories extra then before once I ate back exercise calories.....

jconnon

Tag for later. I would like to have better handle on this as well.

glp724

Thanks so much for this! I have been contemplating switching for a while but I was nervous about the calories that the online calculators were suggesting (too good to be true LOL). I think I will stick with MFP for now.