How do you know how many calories are ACTUALLY in fruit and veg?
Replies
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One reason I weigh low calorie veggies is so I will eat more of them. I probably used to have 5 grams of lettuce on a sandwich; now I shoot for 28 g. I probably used to eat 70 g or less of broccoli; now I shoot for 100 g.13
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I'd overestimate slightly and remind yourself that they are fruit and vegetables. Unless you're eating 16 avocados, I wouldn't worry terribly (especially if they are raw... if there is any truth to the whole they-take-more-energy-to-digest-than-cooked-veg thing). It's not like figuring accurate calories in a bacon cheeseburger... not to dog on accuracy.10
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AoifeFitzy wrote: »Honestly when it comes to fruit and veg I don't worry overly much. Cause most veg, especially, are pretty low in calories-by-weight overall so I don't mind if I'm off by a few cals. I figure, I just really strictly measure the high cal density foods, 'cause those are the ones where an unmeasured spoonful can really throw off your accuracy. Having your daily log be 20 or 30 cals off 'cause of veg estimates isn't going to make much of a difference in the long run, really.
There's some of us who eat a lot of veg/fruit though, and it definitely adds up in calories. Today I'll be over 500 calories just in veg/fruit, out of a 1,400 calorie allotment. That's a pretty significant chunk of my calories for the day. Not saying you have to weight out every spinach leaf, but just be aware that veg/fruit do have calories and it all counts
I want to see your diary and understand how you're consuming 500 calories. I don't know, I suppose a lot of decent-sized fruit (bananas, apples, servings of grapes or berries) can easily be over 100 calories... so five of those would do it... on the vegetable side, though, I don't know. Some people have mentioned corn, and I think that's a grain (not a vegetable). Some people have mentioned potatoes, but I suppose that I personally prefer to classify them as a starch like rice than think of them as eating raw carrots and broccoli.7 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »AoifeFitzy wrote: »Honestly when it comes to fruit and veg I don't worry overly much. Cause most veg, especially, are pretty low in calories-by-weight overall so I don't mind if I'm off by a few cals. I figure, I just really strictly measure the high cal density foods, 'cause those are the ones where an unmeasured spoonful can really throw off your accuracy. Having your daily log be 20 or 30 cals off 'cause of veg estimates isn't going to make much of a difference in the long run, really.
There's some of us who eat a lot of veg/fruit though, and it definitely adds up in calories. Today I'll be over 500 calories just in veg/fruit, out of a 1,400 calorie allotment. That's a pretty significant chunk of my calories for the day. Not saying you have to weight out every spinach leaf, but just be aware that veg/fruit do have calories and it all counts
I want to see your diary and understand how you're consuming 500 calories. I don't know, I suppose a lot of decent-sized fruit (bananas, apples, servings of grapes or berries) can easily be over 100 calories... so five of those would do it... on the vegetable side, though, I don't know. Some people have mentioned corn, and I think that's a grain (not a vegetable). Some people have mentioned potatoes, but I suppose that I personally prefer to classify them as a starch like rice than think of them as eating raw carrots and broccoli.
Corn can be considered a vegetable and a grain.
It's not that difficult to consume 500 calories of fruits and vegetables, even if you eliminate corn and potatoes as vegetables. I've done it many days. It's more vegetables than many people eat, but the point is that vegetables do have calories and eating them "until you explode" (as suggested above) could have negative impacts on weight loss.8 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »AoifeFitzy wrote: »Honestly when it comes to fruit and veg I don't worry overly much. Cause most veg, especially, are pretty low in calories-by-weight overall so I don't mind if I'm off by a few cals. I figure, I just really strictly measure the high cal density foods, 'cause those are the ones where an unmeasured spoonful can really throw off your accuracy. Having your daily log be 20 or 30 cals off 'cause of veg estimates isn't going to make much of a difference in the long run, really.
There's some of us who eat a lot of veg/fruit though, and it definitely adds up in calories. Today I'll be over 500 calories just in veg/fruit, out of a 1,400 calorie allotment. That's a pretty significant chunk of my calories for the day. Not saying you have to weight out every spinach leaf, but just be aware that veg/fruit do have calories and it all counts
I want to see your diary and understand how you're consuming 500 calories. I don't know, I suppose a lot of decent-sized fruit (bananas, apples, servings of grapes or berries) can easily be over 100 calories... so five of those would do it... on the vegetable side, though, I don't know. Some people have mentioned corn, and I think that's a grain (not a vegetable). Some people have mentioned potatoes, but I suppose that I personally prefer to classify them as a starch like rice than think of them as eating raw carrots and broccoli.
There is technically no such classification as a vegetable if you want to be really precise.
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JustinAnimal wrote: »AoifeFitzy wrote: »Honestly when it comes to fruit and veg I don't worry overly much. Cause most veg, especially, are pretty low in calories-by-weight overall so I don't mind if I'm off by a few cals. I figure, I just really strictly measure the high cal density foods, 'cause those are the ones where an unmeasured spoonful can really throw off your accuracy. Having your daily log be 20 or 30 cals off 'cause of veg estimates isn't going to make much of a difference in the long run, really.
There's some of us who eat a lot of veg/fruit though, and it definitely adds up in calories. Today I'll be over 500 calories just in veg/fruit, out of a 1,400 calorie allotment. That's a pretty significant chunk of my calories for the day. Not saying you have to weight out every spinach leaf, but just be aware that veg/fruit do have calories and it all counts
I want to see your diary and understand how you're consuming 500 calories. I don't know, I suppose a lot of decent-sized fruit (bananas, apples, servings of grapes or berries) can easily be over 100 calories... so five of those would do it... on the vegetable side, though, I don't know. Some people have mentioned corn, and I think that's a grain (not a vegetable). Some people have mentioned potatoes, but I suppose that I personally prefer to classify them as a starch like rice than think of them as eating raw carrots and broccoli.
Today:
-1 bag of CA blend steamer veggies (I add the whole bag to my rice bowl)
-afternoon green smoothie: kale, large banana, strawberries
-large, mixing bowl sized salad with supper: spinach, 1 whole tomato, mini-sweet peppers, broccoli, onion (and mushrooms if you want to count them as a veggie)
-medium sweet potato with supper. I'm following the DASH protocol and the NIH counts both sweet potatoes and white potatoes in the vegetable category.
-a serving of crushed pineapple after supper (mixed in with cottage cheese)
Also, I ate a serving of beans today which counts as a serving of vegetables, depending on what guideline you follow (NHS counts them etc).
eta: there's a DASH thread going in the food section and there's a few of us tracking servings of different foods right now. Looking through the past few days since I started tracking (started on the 18th in that thread)- for veg/fruit servings I'm averaging 7-11 servings a day, not counting beans (1-2 servings a day of those as well). So for me they definitely play a significant role in my calorie intake 6 -
In veggies? Nearly nothing. You can eat them until you explode. (this excludes white potatoes). Fruits, mostly the same, except certain ones like avocado and banana.
I ate nearly 600 calories in fruit and vegetables yesterday.
I have a feeling that made a big difference and was worth logging.11 -
I am eating 183 calories of yellow squash mixed with 78 calories of onions right now.10
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JustinAnimal wrote: »AoifeFitzy wrote: »Honestly when it comes to fruit and veg I don't worry overly much. Cause most veg, especially, are pretty low in calories-by-weight overall so I don't mind if I'm off by a few cals. I figure, I just really strictly measure the high cal density foods, 'cause those are the ones where an unmeasured spoonful can really throw off your accuracy. Having your daily log be 20 or 30 cals off 'cause of veg estimates isn't going to make much of a difference in the long run, really.
There's some of us who eat a lot of veg/fruit though, and it definitely adds up in calories. Today I'll be over 500 calories just in veg/fruit, out of a 1,400 calorie allotment. That's a pretty significant chunk of my calories for the day. Not saying you have to weight out every spinach leaf, but just be aware that veg/fruit do have calories and it all counts
I want to see your diary and understand how you're consuming 500 calories. I don't know, I suppose a lot of decent-sized fruit (bananas, apples, servings of grapes or berries) can easily be over 100 calories... so five of those would do it... on the vegetable side, though, I don't know. Some people have mentioned corn, and I think that's a grain (not a vegetable). Some people have mentioned potatoes, but I suppose that I personally prefer to classify them as a starch like rice than think of them as eating raw carrots and broccoli.
Today:
-1 bag of CA blend steamer veggies (I add the whole bag to my rice bowl)
-afternoon green smoothie: kale, large banana, strawberries
-large, mixing bowl sized salad with supper: spinach, 1 whole tomato, mini-sweet peppers, broccoli, onion (and mushrooms if you want to count them as a veggie)
-medium sweet potato with supper. I'm following the DASH protocol and the NIH counts both sweet potatoes and white potatoes in the vegetable category.
-a serving of crushed pineapple after supper (mixed in with cottage cheese)
Also, I ate a serving of beans today which counts as a serving of vegetables, depending on what guideline you follow (NHS counts them etc).
eta: there's a DASH thread going in the food section and there's a few of us tracking servings of different foods right now. Looking through the past few days since I started tracking (started on the 18th in that thread)- for veg/fruit servings I'm averaging 7-11 servings a day, not counting beans (1-2 servings a day of those as well). So for me they definitely play a significant role in my calorie intake
If you count beans I am almost at 1000 calories today and since this is my weekly meatless day it has almost all been fruits and vegetables.
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kshama2001 wrote: »One reason I weigh low calorie veggies is so I will eat more of them. I probably used to have 5 grams of lettuce on a sandwich; now I shoot for 28 g. I probably used to eat 70 g or less of broccoli; now I shoot for 100 g.
Yes, I log them for that reason. I weigh them because it's easier than guessing, but it also pushed my amounts in a meal up.2 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »AoifeFitzy wrote: »Honestly when it comes to fruit and veg I don't worry overly much. Cause most veg, especially, are pretty low in calories-by-weight overall so I don't mind if I'm off by a few cals. I figure, I just really strictly measure the high cal density foods, 'cause those are the ones where an unmeasured spoonful can really throw off your accuracy. Having your daily log be 20 or 30 cals off 'cause of veg estimates isn't going to make much of a difference in the long run, really.
There's some of us who eat a lot of veg/fruit though, and it definitely adds up in calories. Today I'll be over 500 calories just in veg/fruit, out of a 1,400 calorie allotment. That's a pretty significant chunk of my calories for the day. Not saying you have to weight out every spinach leaf, but just be aware that veg/fruit do have calories and it all counts
I want to see your diary and understand how you're consuming 500 calories. I don't know, I suppose a lot of decent-sized fruit (bananas, apples, servings of grapes or berries) can easily be over 100 calories... so five of those would do it... on the vegetable side, though, I don't know. Some people have mentioned corn, and I think that's a grain (not a vegetable). Some people have mentioned potatoes, but I suppose that I personally prefer to classify them as a starch like rice than think of them as eating raw carrots and broccoli.
I've had about 1000 calories total, haven't had dinner yet. So far:
131 cal avocado (half)
50 cal strawberries
70 cal kale (in a smoothie and a cooked dish)
75 cal butternut squash
30 cal cauliflower
25 cal radicchio
40 cal red pepper
8 cal rhubarb
Dinner will include black beans, which I usually think of as a starch or protein source, but it is a veg technically, as well as some other less caloric veg.
Also, I note that one person upthread said no veg have enough cals to count but white potatoes, and of course ALL colors of potatoes (even the cute purple ones!), as well as sweet potatoes (not actually potatoes, although tubers) have similar calories. (This is just my usual complaint about people assuming a food being white makes it bad.)4 -
kshama2001 wrote: »One reason I weigh low calorie veggies is so I will eat more of them. I probably used to have 5 grams of lettuce on a sandwich; now I shoot for 28 g. I probably used to eat 70 g or less of broccoli; now I shoot for 100 g.
Yes, I log them for that reason. I weigh them because it's easier than guessing, but it also pushed my amounts in a meal up.
This is me too. I have a target I like to hit to get me nice and full. It is also kind of interesting when I go back and look because it seems to me that 250 grams (raw weight) of carrots fill me up as much twice that amount of other vegetables. It doesn't seem to make a difference if I cook them or not. I am not sure why that is but even if it is all in my head it works so I use this info as needed.4 -
I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.12
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JustinAnimal wrote: »I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.
So, if you need to lose weight, but were instead gaining weight because you went 1000 calories over your limit every day in vegetables, you'd be happy about that?14 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.
I don't know if anyone here is "worried" as much as we understand that you can gain weight from any type of food if you consume more calories than you're using, including plants. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you're worried by vegetables, it's just realistic.
If you regularly eat 1,000 calories more than you're using, you will gain weight even if it's carrots or green beans or tomatoes.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.
I don't know if anyone here is "worried" as much as we understand that you can gain weight from any type of food if you consume more calories than you're using, including plants. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you're worried by vegetables, it's just realistic.
If you regularly eat 1,000 calories more than you're using, you will gain weight even if it's carrots or green beans or tomatoes.
Is everyone an utter disciple of CICO? No one believes that foods can be processed differently by the body? That some foods burn more calories in the process of digestion than others? That alcohol behaves in a wacky way and isn't processed like standard calories?
Again, I know it's archaic, probably not backed by science, and coming from a loudmouth moron, but I just can't believe that literally all things we put in our body, even the ones we invented in a lab, are processed the same way by our bodies. The day I meet an obese vegan, I will devote my life to helping them achieve whatever body shape they desire... I should've just said I'll eat my hat. Anyway, thanks for polite conversation and tolerance of my backward views.
ETA: I am aware that anything synthetic ("...we invented in a lab...") ultimately came from nature at some point. I don't believe that makes them natural.16 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.
You are correct that your logic is flawed. A calorie is the same whether it comes from a candy bar or vegetables. A surplus of calories can be created by only eating vegetables and the person eating will be gaining weight not losing.5 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.
I don't know if anyone here is "worried" as much as we understand that you can gain weight from any type of food if you consume more calories than you're using, including plants. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you're worried by vegetables, it's just realistic.
If you regularly eat 1,000 calories more than you're using, you will gain weight even if it's carrots or green beans or tomatoes.
Is everyone an utter disciple of CICO? No one believes that foods can be processed differently by the body? That some foods burn more calories in the process of digestion than others? That alcohol behaves in a wacky way and isn't processed like standard calories?
Again, I know it's archaic, probably not backed by science, and coming from a loudmouth moron, but I just can't believe that literally all things we put in our body, even the ones we invented in a lab, are processed the same way by our bodies. The day I meet an obese vegan, I will devote my life to helping them achieve whatever body shape they desire... I should've just said I'll eat my hat. Anyway, thanks for polite conversation and tolerance of my backward views.
ETA: I am aware that anything synthetic ("...we invented in a lab...") ultimately came from nature at some point. I don't believe that makes them natural.
The poster you are responding to is a vegan.
Even if there is some difference in the amount of calories our body extracts from whole foods rather than processed foods (which I don't believe I've ever seen any proof of), do you really think it's enough to offset 1000 calories? You might be talking about 5 or 10 calories, here or there. I don't remember what it stands for, but TEF is the measurement of how many calories are burned digesting certain foods, and that calculation is included in the calorie values of foods. They can actually test that in the lab.
There are several veteran posters who became overweight as vegetarians or vegans, and came here, counted calories, and lost the weight in that same manner of eating.
We hear so much from the diet industry about the "pureness" and "naturalness" of whole foods, it's understandable you might think that they have extra value to weight maintenance. And they often do - as they often have more fiber and protein than convenience foods and therefore fill some people up on less calories. But you can get fat on them if you eat too much.14 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.
I don't know if anyone here is "worried" as much as we understand that you can gain weight from any type of food if you consume more calories than you're using, including plants. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you're worried by vegetables, it's just realistic.
If you regularly eat 1,000 calories more than you're using, you will gain weight even if it's carrots or green beans or tomatoes.
Is everyone an utter disciple of CICO? No one believes that foods can be processed differently by the body? That some foods burn more calories in the process of digestion than others? That alcohol behaves in a wacky way and isn't processed like standard calories?
Again, I know it's archaic, probably not backed by science, and coming from a loudmouth moron, but I just can't believe that literally all things we put in our body, even the ones we invented in a lab, are processed the same way by our bodies. The day I meet an obese vegan, I will devote my life to helping them achieve whatever body shape they desire... I should've just said I'll eat my hat. Anyway, thanks for polite conversation and tolerance of my backward views.
ETA: I am aware that anything synthetic ("...we invented in a lab...") ultimately came from nature at some point. I don't believe that makes them natural.
The poster you are responding to is a vegan.
Even if there is some difference in the amount of calories our body extracts from whole foods rather than processed foods (which I don't believe I've ever seen any proof of), do you really think it's enough to offset 1000 calories? You might be talking about 5 or 10 calories, here or there. I don't remember what it stands for, but TEF is the measurement of how many calories are burned digesting certain foods, and that calculation is included in the calorie values of foods. They can actually test that in the lab.
There are several veteran posters who became overweight as vegetarians or vegans, and came here, counted calories, and lost the weight in that same manner of eating.
We hear so much from the diet industry about the "pureness" and "naturalness" of whole foods, it's understandable you might think that they have extra value to weight maintenance. And they often do - as they often have more fiber and protein than convenience foods and therefore fill some people up on less calories. But you can get fat on them if you eat too much.
I don't (very intensely) identify with the whole "clean eating" thing. I suppose I am speaking purely from personal experience. The most success I had with rapid weight loss was when I ate two servings of raw fruit and/or vegetables before each meal. It become too hard to fit anything else in there. From 300 pounds to 200 pounds, that trick saved me and it still does when I've been backsliding. I think that's kind of what that one person meant when they said you can eat fruit and veg until you explode. Of course, not literally (or even figuratively) can one do this, but I think her (and my) point is that it'd be darn hard to accomplish.
As I stated previously, I appreciate all of your tolerance. Away!
ETA: I've met many, many overweight "vegetarians." They didn't eat vegetables. They ate primarily bread and cheese. Pizza. Burgers minus the patty (sometimes with, because, you know, you're still a vegetarian if you eat a burger patty three times a week and that's it except for some occasional wings or bacon). I have never met an even-close-to-overweight vegan... but my downfall is once again believing my personal experience encompasses the scope of humanity.3 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.
I don't know if anyone here is "worried" as much as we understand that you can gain weight from any type of food if you consume more calories than you're using, including plants. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you're worried by vegetables, it's just realistic.
If you regularly eat 1,000 calories more than you're using, you will gain weight even if it's carrots or green beans or tomatoes.
Is everyone an utter disciple of CICO? No one believes that foods can be processed differently by the body? That some foods burn more calories in the process of digestion than others? That alcohol behaves in a wacky way and isn't processed like standard calories?
Again, I know it's archaic, probably not backed by science, and coming from a loudmouth moron, but I just can't believe that literally all things we put in our body, even the ones we invented in a lab, are processed the same way by our bodies. The day I meet an obese vegan, I will devote my life to helping them achieve whatever body shape they desire... I should've just said I'll eat my hat. Anyway, thanks for polite conversation and tolerance of my backward views.
ETA: I am aware that anything synthetic ("...we invented in a lab...") ultimately came from nature at some point. I don't believe that makes them natural.
It is interesting that once again you recognize your views are not backed by science so why do you believe them? Also, I am not sure you properly understand veganism either otherwise you would not think it would be odd to find an obese vegan. My nurse is one and she struggles to lose weight.3 -
Heck, I'm still stuck on this "100g" measurement thing. Cups is sooooo much easier for me! I am constantly googling stuff now that I am calorie counting.0
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JustinAnimal wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.
I don't know if anyone here is "worried" as much as we understand that you can gain weight from any type of food if you consume more calories than you're using, including plants. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you're worried by vegetables, it's just realistic.
If you regularly eat 1,000 calories more than you're using, you will gain weight even if it's carrots or green beans or tomatoes.
Is everyone an utter disciple of CICO? No one believes that foods can be processed differently by the body? That some foods burn more calories in the process of digestion than others? That alcohol behaves in a wacky way and isn't processed like standard calories?
Again, I know it's archaic, probably not backed by science, and coming from a loudmouth moron, but I just can't believe that literally all things we put in our body, even the ones we invented in a lab, are processed the same way by our bodies. The day I meet an obese vegan, I will devote my life to helping them achieve whatever body shape they desire... I should've just said I'll eat my hat. Anyway, thanks for polite conversation and tolerance of my backward views.
ETA: I am aware that anything synthetic ("...we invented in a lab...") ultimately came from nature at some point. I don't believe that makes them natural.
The poster you are responding to is a vegan.
Even if there is some difference in the amount of calories our body extracts from whole foods rather than processed foods (which I don't believe I've ever seen any proof of), do you really think it's enough to offset 1000 calories? You might be talking about 5 or 10 calories, here or there. I don't remember what it stands for, but TEF is the measurement of how many calories are burned digesting certain foods, and that calculation is included in the calorie values of foods. They can actually test that in the lab.
There are several veteran posters who became overweight as vegetarians or vegans, and came here, counted calories, and lost the weight in that same manner of eating.
We hear so much from the diet industry about the "pureness" and "naturalness" of whole foods, it's understandable you might think that they have extra value to weight maintenance. And they often do - as they often have more fiber and protein than convenience foods and therefore fill some people up on less calories. But you can get fat on them if you eat too much.
I don't (very intensely) identify with the whole "clean eating" thing. I suppose I am speaking purely from personal experience. The most success I had with rapid weight loss was when I ate two servings of raw fruit and/or vegetables before each meal. It become too hard to fit anything else in there. From 300 pounds to 200 pounds, that trick saved me and it still does when I've been backsliding. I think that's kind of what that one person meant when they said you can eat fruit and veg until you explode. Of course, not literally (or even figuratively) can one do this, but I think her (and my) point is that it'd be darn hard to accomplish.
As I stated previously, I appreciate all of your tolerance. Away!
ETA: I've met many, many overweight "vegetarians." They didn't eat vegetables. They ate primarily bread and cheese. Pizza. Burgers minus the patty (sometimes with, because, you know, you're still a vegetarian if you eat a burger patty three times a week and that's it except for some occasional wings or bacon). I have never met an even-close-to-overweight vegan... but my downfall is once again believing my personal experience encompasses the scope of humanity.
Congrats on your loss. Filling up on fruits and vegetables before eating something more caloric is a very common practice and a great way to help establish a calorie deficit. I do this myself.7 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.
I don't know if anyone here is "worried" as much as we understand that you can gain weight from any type of food if you consume more calories than you're using, including plants. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you're worried by vegetables, it's just realistic.
If you regularly eat 1,000 calories more than you're using, you will gain weight even if it's carrots or green beans or tomatoes.
Is everyone an utter disciple of CICO? No one believes that foods can be processed differently by the body? That some foods burn more calories in the process of digestion than others? That alcohol behaves in a wacky way and isn't processed like standard calories?
Again, I know it's archaic, probably not backed by science, and coming from a loudmouth moron, but I just can't believe that literally all things we put in our body, even the ones we invented in a lab, are processed the same way by our bodies. The day I meet an obese vegan, I will devote my life to helping them achieve whatever body shape they desire... I should've just said I'll eat my hat. Anyway, thanks for polite conversation and tolerance of my backward views.
ETA: I am aware that anything synthetic ("...we invented in a lab...") ultimately came from nature at some point. I don't believe that makes them natural.
Yup, I'm a total CICO disciple, when it comes to weight loss.
But I don't believe that all foods are processed by the body in the same way. The differences, though, are more in the realm of nutrition and health (including satiation and body composition), rather than calories as such. Sure, some foods have a higher or lower TEF, but it's typically a small fraction. (There's a tiny little preliminary study somewhere suggesting it could be as much as a 20% practical difference between all whole foods and all processed, but . . . it was tiny, and methodologically flawed, which was fine given their experimental goals. And 20% is surprisingly easy to overcome, anyway.)
When it comes to alcohol, the difference has more to do with priority of processing, and the biochemical pathways utilized in the process. Other things go on hold, until the poison is out of one's system. If still in a calorie deficit, the other intake gets processed eventually, and weight loss can occur.
It's entirely possible that there's some point at which excessive alcohol pushes normal nutrition out of one's intake, and/or the effects of the poison come to have a pathological effect on one's biochemistry. But I've seen no sign that consumption of alcohol within reason, alongside a reasonably nutritious diet, has any particularly unusual effect on calorie balance. (Generous-spirited li'l ol' lady that I am, I have taken it upon myself to perform some n=1 experiments in exactly that area, purely for the benefit of humanity. You can thank me later.
).
I've also been a vegetarian (ovo-lacto) for almost 45 years, thin to fat to obese and back again. I eat 800g+ of veggies on a large fraction of my days (not just plant-based foods: fruits and veggies, mostly veggies). Most of my eating, most days, is reasonably "whole" (by most definitions of the term, even though it's not a term I like or much use). I demonstrably gain or lose or maintain weight by manipulating those calories (almost 4 years of data says so).
On that basis, I'm pretty confident that I could eat only veggies (strict definition) in sufficient quantities to gain weight.
I have absolutely no intention of doing it, because it would blow my nutritional goals out of the water.
Now, before WFPB/vegan folks get mad at me, I'm talking about just veggies, under a strict definition, because that seems to be what the person I'm replying to seems to be talking about. I'm very confident that I could eat strict vegetarian/fully WFPB/vegan and get entirely adequate nutrition. It's just the thought of how much broccoli it would take to meet my protein goal if eating all veggies . . . ugh (much as I like broccoli)!5 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.
Among other things, I think if you are going to log you might as well do it as accurately as possible, and part of that is learning to pick the right entries and not just picking one that seems to be in the middle or one that is safe because it's high. It's also educational since the right entries are going to have the other nutritional information right, and the weird "apple: homemade" or what not is probably not only non trustworthy on cals, but also fiber, carbs, vitamins, etc.
I also track nutrition at Cronometer, however, so have some different interests.
But again, one reason I think it's worthwhile to track vegetables is you can honestly see how much you are consuming, how it affects the day, and if you should perhaps eat more (or a greater variety).
If you eat a somewhat consistent amount of ANYTHING it doesn't matter whether you log it or not if you adjust by results. But why not try to see accurately about how many calories and carbs and fiber and so on you are getting from fruit and veg? (I actually do count fiber and consider it important, and many non starchy veg add to one's protein count.)
I am not actually concerned about going 1000 calories over my limit on fruits and veg (if I did, I'd gain weight, but I probably would not without eating less of other foods). But if I eat 500 cals of them and don't log and then have 1000 cal days, it's going to confuse me as to my TDEE.2 -
JustinAnimal wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »I guess my point is, if you're eating 1000 calories or whatever solely in vegetables... I don't know, I'm sure that it is archaic and inaccurate logic... and, yes, CICO, I know... I still just wouldn't be worried. If I GAINED weight eating plants all day, I'd be more likely to give myself a pat on the back and brag about it. Now, I do completely understand going OVER your limit... still, and I mean completely personally, I would not be worried about eating 1000 calories over my goal in raw fruits and veggies. That said, I've never done it and have no idea what it would do to me and I'm sure I'm wrong and I'd balloon up and look like such an idiot for speaking. Anyway, my two cents.
I don't know if anyone here is "worried" as much as we understand that you can gain weight from any type of food if you consume more calories than you're using, including plants. Acknowledging that doesn't mean you're worried by vegetables, it's just realistic.
If you regularly eat 1,000 calories more than you're using, you will gain weight even if it's carrots or green beans or tomatoes.
Is everyone an utter disciple of CICO? No one believes that foods can be processed differently by the body? That some foods burn more calories in the process of digestion than others? That alcohol behaves in a wacky way and isn't processed like standard calories?
Again, I know it's archaic, probably not backed by science, and coming from a loudmouth moron, but I just can't believe that literally all things we put in our body, even the ones we invented in a lab, are processed the same way by our bodies. The day I meet an obese vegan, I will devote my life to helping them achieve whatever body shape they desire... I should've just said I'll eat my hat. Anyway, thanks for polite conversation and tolerance of my backward views.
ETA: I am aware that anything synthetic ("...we invented in a lab...") ultimately came from nature at some point. I don't believe that makes them natural.
The poster you are responding to is a vegan.
Even if there is some difference in the amount of calories our body extracts from whole foods rather than processed foods (which I don't believe I've ever seen any proof of), do you really think it's enough to offset 1000 calories? You might be talking about 5 or 10 calories, here or there. I don't remember what it stands for, but TEF is the measurement of how many calories are burned digesting certain foods, and that calculation is included in the calorie values of foods. They can actually test that in the lab.
There are several veteran posters who became overweight as vegetarians or vegans, and came here, counted calories, and lost the weight in that same manner of eating.
We hear so much from the diet industry about the "pureness" and "naturalness" of whole foods, it's understandable you might think that they have extra value to weight maintenance. And they often do - as they often have more fiber and protein than convenience foods and therefore fill some people up on less calories. But you can get fat on them if you eat too much.
I don't (very intensely) identify with the whole "clean eating" thing. I suppose I am speaking purely from personal experience. The most success I had with rapid weight loss was when I ate two servings of raw fruit and/or vegetables before each meal. It become too hard to fit anything else in there. From 300 pounds to 200 pounds, that trick saved me and it still does when I've been backsliding. I think that's kind of what that one person meant when they said you can eat fruit and veg until you explode. Of course, not literally (or even figuratively) can one do this, but I think her (and my) point is that it'd be darn hard to accomplish.
As I stated previously, I appreciate all of your tolerance. Away!
ETA: I've met many, many overweight "vegetarians." They didn't eat vegetables. They ate primarily bread and cheese. Pizza. Burgers minus the patty (sometimes with, because, you know, you're still a vegetarian if you eat a burger patty three times a week and that's it except for some occasional wings or bacon). I have never met an even-close-to-overweight vegan... but my downfall is once again believing my personal experience encompasses the scope of humanity.
I've been a fat vegetarian. In fact, I've been an obese vegetarian who also regularly trained and competed as a master's athlete - this last for over a decade, 2003ish to 2015. I haven't intentionally eaten meat since 1974. (I'm sure I've accidentally had soup with chicken broth in it, and certainly have taken a bite of casserole that I thought was vegetarian but wasn't). ("There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." ).
Of course I didn't eat only vegetables (strict definition), and I did eat pizza (with vegetables), and cheese. And I've known actual, real fat/obese vegans or strict vegetarians. Again, they eat grain foods, nuts, etc. They need to, for nutrition. They didn't all eat burgers on weekends. <eye roll>
You're right, many people do find fruit and veggies filling . . . especially when they come from a history of eating (what I consider to be) too few of them.
All comments meant with friendly intent - best wishes!4 -
ericadcruz32 wrote: »Heck, I'm still stuck on this "100g" measurement thing. Cups is sooooo much easier for me! I am constantly googling stuff now that I am calorie counting.
For some entries you can use the drop down menu and change it to 1 gram, then input your weight. If that option isn't available then you can use decimals. For example, 50 grams of strawberries would be .5 servings if your unit was in hundreds and a 120 gram banana would be 1.2 servings. Hope this helps.1 -
There is a food scale that I bought at the Bed, Bath, and Beyond. It has a little book of codes and you can enter the code into the food scale, and it'll give you all of the nutritional info of that fruit/vegetable. I've had mine for over 3 years and I love it! What I did was I wrote down the fruits/veggies that I usually eat on a piece of paper and taped it onto the scale to make it easier.0
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ericadcruz32 wrote: »Heck, I'm still stuck on this "100g" measurement thing. Cups is sooooo much easier for me! I am constantly googling stuff now that I am calorie counting.
I'd add that learning how to use your food scale efficiently is part of this. Once you get the tricks down, it's not just more accurate than cups/spoons, it's quicker and easier.
(Details in this thread, despite the title: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10498882/weighing-food-takes-too-long-and-is-obsessive . I'm not saying everyone needs to weigh their food. If they lose weight fine without doing so, more power to them. But if someone wants accuracy, plus time-efficiency, food scale is the way to go, along with learning how to use the tool.)4 -
I have a friend who is an overweight vegan. She doesn't just eat fruits and veg, however (as that would be unhealthy). She eats a whole variety of foods (including bread, but not cheese, or at least not dairy cheese, they have substitutes).
Eating lots of fruits and veg doesn't protect you (or not everyone) from becoming overweight. I got fat even though I mostly ate meals cooked at home from whole foods with lots of vegetables. My meals were nutritionally very good, although often higher cal than they should have been since I'd use more olive oil/butter than I needed, had bigger portions than I needed, so on. I love going to a variety of local restaurants (good restaurant scene where I live) and would typically get dishes involving vegetables (often a good way to try a new preparation of vegetables). Or I'd go to an Ethiopian place with my vegan friend and we'd get their vegan option (which is typically a sampler of lentils, collards, cabbage/carrots, and spinach, prepared their way with the bread), and that could be a whole bunch of calories.
I got fat, since eating veg just doesn't prevent me from overeating in other ways. I didn't cut calories from vegetables, but I did have an interest when I started counting calories in really understanding my diet.1
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