Getting sick is vile, miserable, and a waste of time - so do something about it!
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rheddmobile wrote: »While I do feel sympathy for those who don't get sick pay, working in healthcare and going in sick is negligence which could cause someone's death, and should be a firing offense, and working while sick as a food handler is actually illegal. Don't do it, and if you are asked to do it, report it.
Not everyone can survive the germs which cause you a small inconvenience. Don't be the one who killed someone else's elderly grandma, or the person recovering from cancer, or the person with lupus taking autoimmune suppressing drugs. Please stay home.
It absolutely should be. The fact of the matter is, my employer will fire me for missing work, and as I said, if I am well and truly miserably ill, I won't go to work. If I am vomiting, suffering diarrhea, unable to stop coughing even with otc meds, running a fever, have the flu, etc... I won't go to work. But I can't call out every time I get a cold.
I don't like it, I think it is ridiculous, but my hospital system basically has a monopoly over pretty much every hospital in an hour's drive and we are not unionized. Heck, the policy is so bad that people have been known to show up with their fevers, vomiting and other awful symptoms so they can get sent home. No points then. Ridiculous, isn't it?
And having a physicians note for illness does not excuse you from points except in the case where you test positive for something like flu or strep, in which case you still get a point for the first day, but the note will sometimes save you from taking points for further days (like if you miss the whole week).7 -
nicsflyingcircus wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »While I do feel sympathy for those who don't get sick pay, working in healthcare and going in sick is negligence which could cause someone's death, and should be a firing offense, and working while sick as a food handler is actually illegal. Don't do it, and if you are asked to do it, report it.
Not everyone can survive the germs which cause you a small inconvenience. Don't be the one who killed someone else's elderly grandma, or the person recovering from cancer, or the person with lupus taking autoimmune suppressing drugs. Please stay home.
It absolutely should be. The fact of the matter is, my employer will fire me for missing work, and as I said, if I am well and truly miserably ill, I won't go to work. If I am vomiting, suffering diarrhea, unable to stop coughing even with otc meds, running a fever, have the flu, etc... I won't go to work. But I can't call out every time I get a cold.
I don't like it, I think it is ridiculous, but my hospital system basically has a monopoly over pretty much every hospital in an hour's drive and we are not unionized. Heck, the policy is so bad that people have been known to show up with their fevers, vomiting and other awful symptoms so they can get sent home. No points then. Ridiculous, isn't it?
And having a physicians note for illness does not excuse you from points except in the case where you test positive for something like flu or strep, in which case you still get a point for the first day, but the note will sometimes save you from taking points for further days (like if you miss the whole week).
... but you voluntarily gave up those benefits. Isn't this "point system" in place for those that don't earn that time off as part of that benefit package? What was the purpose of choosing this route... more money?6 -
jseams1234 wrote: »Until I came across this thread, I didn't realise that there were first world countries where employees have no legal right to sick pay
To be fair most of the examples in this thread are people working either part time or who voluntarily gave up those benefits for more pay. From when I was a teen and worked full time at a fast food restaurant to when I did carpentry work to computer engineering to the federal government I've always been to able to accrue some sort of paid leave. Some times it was simply PTO but usually it was a combination of sick and annual.
This.
My husband has always had generous sick days and has never had any issues using them (for the 5 companies he's now worked for both small, local ones and then two large, global ones). If he's sick he just calls or texts his boss and there's never been any hassle, (he started out as an electrician and now he works as a programmer/tech in the industrial HVAC field).
I had a part time job last year, after being a sahm for many years, and I had to call in a couple times due to sick kids. I didn't get paid for those times since I was part time, but I had no issues with management about needing the time off.5 -
I have three small children. I stay in and keep my children in if anyone has a fever, has had vomit or diarrhea in the past 24 hours, but that is it. We had a stomach bug for over a week between the 5 people in my house, and then before we were fully over that a head cold for another 7-10 days. My husband is paid by the hour and gets no sick time, and I can't just stop living for 2.5 weeks because my kids have a sniffle or a cough. Groceries must be bought, things must be done.
My poor husband has been the sickest. He works at a small store with like 4 employees, and he's one of the only full time. Several days he went in sick he was the only person working from open to close. Not possible for him to call in. They don't offer paid time off or health insurance, it's just a really small operation. He didn't opt out, it just isn't an option.
I try not to make unnecessary trips, we stayed from the gym, I did grocery pickup when I could, we stayed away from any "fun" things like trampoline parks or kid's activity centers. But we could not avoid being out completely.12 -
While working I was for a few years a "supervisor" in a Fortune 500 company. In that role, I learned that the company expected everyone to work for their pay.
And I learned everyone was allowed to miss one day a month, no questions asked, no excuse needed.
And I learned that no employee was told that during their orientation.10 -
Signs should be displayed in store fronts with the words in bold font, “Enter at your own risk, we don’t have sick pay for our employees.” LOL14
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L1zardQueen wrote: »I have RA and take medication to supress my immune system, it sucks getting sick. I have to be super careful around sick people. Stay home, if you can.
It really is hard for people who take these meds. My 6 year old grandson has juvenile RA and it's hard with school, activities, and life in general. He gets his flu shot but still gets the flu. He too wears masks, as needed, when he is out in public as well as when he is sick and has to go to the doctor or other key appointments.
When those who have healthy immune systems go out when they are ill, please keep this in mind and use a mask. It's not something I would have thought about, if my grandson did not developed RA at age four.
Many thanks to those who do stay home and wear masks as needed. It can literally mean life or death for a child (or an adult) like my sweet grandson.7 -
That's not quite right. Did you maybe work for a nightmare company? The whole point of the self-certification thing for short periods of illness is that you DON'T need to get a doctor's agreement or involvement. Certainly not a form from your surgery.manderson27 wrote: »Glad I am retired.
The rules in the UK about sick days are complicated and vary from company to company. Firstly you usually have to ensure you call in at least an hour before your shift starts and you usually have to speak to your line manager not leave a message. They also don't accept having other people call in on your behalf and if you don't follow procedure then you are classed absent and can lose pay. Just trying to do this after being up all night puking or something is hard enough.
Then you have to listen to the disaproval in your managers voice because now everyone else has to work harder to cover for you and the manager has to fill out numerous forms for HR.
You need to get a "self certificate" from a doctors office to fill in and send in to HR if you are off for up to 3 days (some companies wont pay for the first 3 days) anything over that and you need a signed doctors certificate to send in to HR to ensure you get sick pay.
Bear in mind that you have organise all this while you are sick.
Then when you get back you have to go to a meeting with HR and go into great detail about your illness and justify why you took the time off. Then you have to discuss the likelihood of this particular event happening again and if there something you can do to avoid it. Not to mention worrying about how this will count against you as you have now had 3 seperate incidents during the year but can't work out the complicated math involved in the yearly sick day calculations. And on and on and on.
It is easier just to take your germ ridden body in so you can puke on the managers shoes and then get sent home because then you qualify for sick pay because everyone sees the proof that you are sick.
Yep glad to be retired and out of all this work stuff. I can be ill and stay home and not spread my bugs.
You might have to fill in a form from your workplace's HR department, but that's individual office procedures.
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SummerSkier wrote: »The other contributor these days is the whole "open office space" thing. One contagious person and all of a sudden 50 people are exposed to the virus. Esp true if the person does not even KNOW they are sick yet. Sigh. I got the flu last year and I had not had it in 10 years prior.
On top of the open office concept is the "hotel" concept where nobody has an assigned desk/work area on a floor/wing or whatever. You take an open spot.
You have no idea what went on there regarding sneezing, wiping snot around etc 5 minutes before you sat down there.3 -
jseams1234 wrote: »nicsflyingcircus wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »While I do feel sympathy for those who don't get sick pay, working in healthcare and going in sick is negligence which could cause someone's death, and should be a firing offense, and working while sick as a food handler is actually illegal. Don't do it, and if you are asked to do it, report it.
Not everyone can survive the germs which cause you a small inconvenience. Don't be the one who killed someone else's elderly grandma, or the person recovering from cancer, or the person with lupus taking autoimmune suppressing drugs. Please stay home.
It absolutely should be. The fact of the matter is, my employer will fire me for missing work, and as I said, if I am well and truly miserably ill, I won't go to work. If I am vomiting, suffering diarrhea, unable to stop coughing even with otc meds, running a fever, have the flu, etc... I won't go to work. But I can't call out every time I get a cold.
I don't like it, I think it is ridiculous, but my hospital system basically has a monopoly over pretty much every hospital in an hour's drive and we are not unionized. Heck, the policy is so bad that people have been known to show up with their fevers, vomiting and other awful symptoms so they can get sent home. No points then. Ridiculous, isn't it?
And having a physicians note for illness does not excuse you from points except in the case where you test positive for something like flu or strep, in which case you still get a point for the first day, but the note will sometimes save you from taking points for further days (like if you miss the whole week).
... but you voluntarily gave up those benefits. Isn't this "point system" in place for those that don't earn that time off as part of that benefit package? What was the purpose of choosing this route... more money?
The benefits I gave up were health insurance (I already had) and ETO. But ETO has to be scheduled in advance. If you are full time and have benefits and call in, you still get a point. They ask if you want to use your ETO or not get paid for the sick day. I did mention the not getting paid wasn't the issue, it was the points. And everybody gets points for calling out.
My going to work sick (again, not deathly ill) has NOTHING to do with money and everything to do with an organization that actively punishes employees who call out, regardless of the reason.
ETA: I want to reiterate, this point system is in place for every non-salaried employee of the hospital, full-time, part-time, PRN (me). It has nothing to do with my lack of benefits. Full-time employees with benefits get points in exactly the same way as I do.
And yes, I did take PRN (but work full-time hours) for the difference in pay and flexibility in scheduling. I had existing health insurance in place and with 4 kids, the added flexibility is a big plus.5 -
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wear a mask really
when I worked for myself - I could take sick days and so could my children and they could take the extra day to really get well - but out here in America's working class - businesses don't give a damn if you are sick or if you spread it all over their work force...while they sit comfortably in a closed door office. 
wear a mask?..hell no I simply build up my immune system to be so strong it resists - let the dweeb hiding in the office leave themselves vulnerable. not me.
This is quite possibly the most dispicably self-centered sentiment in the entire thread. Normally I'd just roll my eyes and say bless your heart, but I don't think your biscuit is quite done in the middle if you thought this a good thing to post.28 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »
Exactly. I know multiple professors, including those with tenure, who are pressured into not taking time off because, not so shockingly, no one can fill in for them. Missing class means students don't learn as much and is also in a costing students money as they aren't getting what they paid for. Of course this takes on a much deeper meaning if they're tenure track.
This is also a major an issue in high stakes situations for the instructors' students. I TA for two ESL courses and for a lot of students, if they don't pass an English standardized test with a high enough score, they will lose funding to stay in the US. In some cases it also means they won't be able to get a degree at an institution where English is the medium of instruction.1 -
... or with from home.1
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I don't think your biscuit is quite done in the middle if you thought this a good thing to post.
This little phrase is delightful
Aaron_K123 wrote: »
I honestly think that if deadlines are so tight that a project falls apart because of one employee taking a sick day that's a failure on the part of management. That's a risk the company is taking by trying to run on a skeleton crew.
My job is fine with paid sick (and I have ceoliac so if they try and discipline me I have some sort of protection) but I am going to look into joining a general workers union this afternoon anyway on principle.9 -
I don't think your biscuit is quite done in the middle if you thought this a good thing to post.
This little phrase is delightfulAaron_K123 wrote: »
I honestly think that if deadlines are so tight that a project falls apart because of one employee taking a sick day that's a failure on the part of management. That's a risk the company is taking by trying to run on a skeleton crew.
My job is fine with paid sick (and I have ceoliac so if they try and discipline me I have some sort of protection) but I am going to look into joining a general workers union this afternoon anyway on principle.
Finding fault doesn't make it any easier on the employees who are made to feel the project needs to get done on a deadline "regardless" and work when they are sick. Not showing up when one has the sniffles (which face it is pretty much everyone during the winter) doesn't cut it it upper management. That's the way it is in Corporate America.5 -
manderson27 wrote: »Glad I am retired.
The rules in the UK about sick days are complicated and vary from company to company. Firstly you usually have to ensure you call in at least an hour before your shift starts and you usually have to speak to your line manager not leave a message. They also don't accept having other people call in on your behalf and if you don't follow procedure then you are classed absent and can lose pay. Just trying to do this after being up all night puking or something is hard enough.
Then you have to listen to the disaproval in your managers voice because now everyone else has to work harder to cover for you and the manager has to fill out numerous forms for HR.
You need to get a "self certificate" from a doctors office to fill in and send in to HR if you are off for up to 3 days (some companies wont pay for the first 3 days) anything over that and you need a signed doctors certificate to send in to HR to ensure you get sick pay.
Bear in mind that you have organise all this while you are sick.
Then when you get back you have to go to a meeting with HR and go into great detail about your illness and justify why you took the time off. Then you have to discuss the likelihood of this particular event happening again and if there something you can do to avoid it. Not to mention worrying about how this will count against you as you have now had 3 seperate incidents during the year but can't work out the complicated math involved in the yearly sick day calculations. And on and on and on.
It is easier just to take your germ ridden body in so you can puke on the managers shoes and then get sent home because then you qualify for sick pay because everyone sees the proof that you are sick.
Yep glad to be retired and out of all this work stuff. I can be ill and stay home and not spread my bugs.
what kind of job was this? sounds awful! didn't think it was even legal for them to ask details about the specifics of your health condition. here (in Canada) at my job they aren't even allowed to ask for diagnosis or details.0 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Finding fault doesn't make it any easier on the employees who are made to feel the project needs to get done on a deadline "regardless" and work when they are sick. Not showing up when one has the sniffles (which face it is pretty much everyone during the winter) doesn't cut it it upper management. That's the way it is in Corporate America.
That thought does help me though. I'm not in America but I have felt bad about taking sick days I needed before. When I got back the world hadn't ended, I wasn't as important as I thought I was. Someone else had held down the fort or contractors accepted they would get their stuff the next day. Delays happen all the time for many different reasons and genuine illness is a valid one. (I don't think anyone is suggesting taking time off for the sniffles).3 -
So, I run a small business.
What we do is pretty high-skilled work, and every one of my employees is essential to getting things done. And as a small business, barely out of start-up territory, balancing the books every month isn't an easy task. It's essential to the survival of the business that the people who work for me put in their hours so that we bring in the money to keep going.
When one of my employees is ill, I tell them to go-the-*kitten*-home. 90% of the time I'll tell them to go home immediately. The other 10% of the time, we've got something we really need to get out the gate- and then, I'll tell them to do the essential things and then go home. Stop working. Get some *kitten* sleep. Come back to me when they feel better and not a moment sooner.
I don't penalise my employees for taking the time they need. And behind the scenes? When I work on my financial projections, I always include the assumption that we'll lose a couple of days per month to illness or emergencies. Most of the time we don't lose those and- hey, excellent, more money in the bank for the biz.
I've a few reasons for this.
1. I work in a small business and as a human being I care for my coworkers' wellbeing! I know how hard they all work for this company and I want to be a person who appreciates and sees that, and returns the favour by working hard for them. One of the ways I can do this is to not encourage them to come into work sick.
but also:
2. I'd rather lose one employee for a day or two, than lose 2 or 3 employees for a week each. The first of those things is a roadbump I can account for. But if half my employees were out with the flu for a week each at the same time? That's going to be a major problem. The kind of problem where the boss (hello, me!) has to take a serious pay cut for the month to get the bills paid.
3. Most of us work from home though, so most of the time contagion isn't a risk. However... My people are highly skilled workers, and I want them to come to work with their brains sharp. If they show up to work sick? Even if they put in 100% effort, they're not giving me their best work. I'd rather have someone go home for a couple days and then come back feeling refreshed and able to do good quality work, than have them slog it out for the whole week getting more exhausted and run-down every day, and still not be doing the best work. When it comes to keeping our clients happy, I'd always rather give them the best product than something someone just-about managed to push through when half-delirious with the flu.
4. A happy employee is a productive employee. There are times when I need to ask my employees to go to extra lengths to get some work done. I want my employees to feel invested in the success of our business, so they've better morale and are happy and willing to give their all. And one way to contribute to that? Is to make sure they know that the company has their well-being at heart as well.
Like, honestly? Happy, healthy employees are employees who work harder. And employees who work harder are employees who are gonna bring in more profits to the company. It ain't rocket science!21
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