Lent

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Replies

  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,840 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    MarziPanda95 wrote: »
    Lent is more of a cultural thing in the UK, I think. Plenty of non-Christians give something up, to practice new habits or get rid of something negative in their lives. I'm agnostic but still usually give something up.

    This year I might give up ordering from Amazon. They have enough money. I'd rather my money go to small independent businesses.

    I really wish people wouldn't make a Lenten sacrifice as a "cultural" thing or in an attempt to improving themselves by changing habits. They should find something different to call it, and not tie it to other people's sacred traditions. It's like a non-Muslim saying they're going on Hajj because they've always wanted to see Saudi Arabia.

    It being used as a weight loss thing is a pet peeve of mine, but if one is sort of culturally Christian and from a culture where Lent has been a traditional thing because it was a church thing in the past (as in the UK and the Anglican church or lapsed Catholics or whatnot), I see it as more like celebrating secular Christmas, which is certainly common among people of Christian (or even non Christian background) who aren't actually believers themselves. It's a religious thing for me, but I think it's fine to keep some aspects of the tradition that one appreciates even if one is no longer religious.

    Yes, my perception is that the people doing this are coming from a cultural Christian context. Am I hijacking someone's sacred tradition by celebrating Christmas even though I am no longer a believer?

    I wasn't really given a choice about being raised in a society where Christianity is the assumed default. In the past, Christians worked hard to make it the default, to the point that many societies had legal penalties for non-observance and laws that enforced the moral codes associated with Christianity. If modern Christians don't care for that today and would like it to be a smaller circle, it's a bit late to put that genie back into the bottle.

    The vast majority of customs incorporated into the concept of "celebrating Christmas" have next to no nexus to actual religious observance. Most non-believers celebration of Christmas involves putting up a tree, giving gifts, singing songs, and eating a big meal, not attending a religious service, mouthing prayers and professions of belief that you know you don't believe, and lining up to participate in Communion despite a belief that you will be receiving ordinary bread and wine.

    I realize no one is going to change their non-religious appropriation of others' sacred observances just because I explain why I find it offensive.

    To be fair, Christians first appropriated the heck out of pagan customs... like Easter, the sacred day of Oestara, celebrated by decorating eggs, and Yule, with decorated trees, and December 25th, the birthday of Mithras. (Since shepherds were out when Jesus was born, he was probably born in spring.)

    I think it’s kinder, and therefore more Christian, to let other people be happy without looking for reasons to take offense.

    no, that is not correct.
    https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/is-jesus-simply-a-retelling-of-the-mithras-mythology/

    The early Christians were celebrating Christ's resurrection almost immediately after the event. See Saint Paul's letter where he clearly states that the tradition wad handed down to him from the apostles that Chrst died on the cross, rose from the dead and then appeared to the apostles and then lastly to me. < paraphrase

    That’s not what I’m saying, my discussion is about the specific date, which was not associated with Christ until later.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,092 Member
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    MarziPanda95 wrote: »
    Lent is more of a cultural thing in the UK, I think. Plenty of non-Christians give something up, to practice new habits or get rid of something negative in their lives. I'm agnostic but still usually give something up.

    This year I might give up ordering from Amazon. They have enough money. I'd rather my money go to small independent businesses.

    I really wish people wouldn't make a Lenten sacrifice as a "cultural" thing or in an attempt to improving themselves by changing habits. They should find something different to call it, and not tie it to other people's sacred traditions. It's like a non-Muslim saying they're going on Hajj because they've always wanted to see Saudi Arabia.

    It being used as a weight loss thing is a pet peeve of mine, but if one is sort of culturally Christian and from a culture where Lent has been a traditional thing because it was a church thing in the past (as in the UK and the Anglican church or lapsed Catholics or whatnot), I see it as more like celebrating secular Christmas, which is certainly common among people of Christian (or even non Christian background) who aren't actually believers themselves. It's a religious thing for me, but I think it's fine to keep some aspects of the tradition that one appreciates even if one is no longer religious.

    Yes, my perception is that the people doing this are coming from a cultural Christian context. Am I hijacking someone's sacred tradition by celebrating Christmas even though I am no longer a believer?

    I wasn't really given a choice about being raised in a society where Christianity is the assumed default. In the past, Christians worked hard to make it the default, to the point that many societies had legal penalties for non-observance and laws that enforced the moral codes associated with Christianity. If modern Christians don't care for that today and would like it to be a smaller circle, it's a bit late to put that genie back into the bottle.

    The vast majority of customs incorporated into the concept of "celebrating Christmas" have next to no nexus to actual religious observance. Most non-believers celebration of Christmas involves putting up a tree, giving gifts, singing songs, and eating a big meal, not attending a religious service, mouthing prayers and professions of belief that you know you don't believe, and lining up to participate in Communion despite a belief that you will be receiving ordinary bread and wine.

    I realize no one is going to change their non-religious appropriation of others' sacred observances just because I explain why I find it offensive.

    To be fair, Christians first appropriated the heck out of pagan customs... like Easter, the sacred day of Oestara, celebrated by decorating eggs, and Yule, with decorated trees, and December 25th, the birthday of Mithras. (Since shepherds were out when Jesus was born, he was probably born in spring.)

    I think it’s kinder, and therefore more Christian, to let other people be happy without looking for reasons to take offense.

    It's kinder not to dismiss and belittle someone's pain at having their religious practices treated as something to be borrowed for nonreligious use.
  • Safari_Gal_
    Safari_Gal_ Posts: 1,461 Member
    BecomingMoreAwesome wrote: »
    samiam4114 wrote: »
    Last year instead of giving up something, I incorporated saying a rosary a day. Best Lenten season to date :)

    I like this idea. I’m not Catholic anymore, but when I was, a priest I really respected spoke about not treating Lent as a time of punishment but as an opportunity to improve ourselves by adding a healthy, loving, or giving habit.

    Edit because it read as though I used to be a priest. :)

    Inspiring reading these!!
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    This year my goal is to eat fish at least twice per week. I like fish but it is so much more expensive than chicken. All my local supermarkets are supporting me in eating more fish by having sales :)
  • Courtscan2
    Courtscan2 Posts: 499 Member
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    MarziPanda95 wrote: »
    Lent is more of a cultural thing in the UK, I think. Plenty of non-Christians give something up, to practice new habits or get rid of something negative in their lives. I'm agnostic but still usually give something up.

    This year I might give up ordering from Amazon. They have enough money. I'd rather my money go to small independent businesses.

    I really wish people wouldn't make a Lenten sacrifice as a "cultural" thing or in an attempt to improving themselves by changing habits. They should find something different to call it, and not tie it to other people's sacred traditions. It's like a non-Muslim saying they're going on Hajj because they've always wanted to see Saudi Arabia.

    It being used as a weight loss thing is a pet peeve of mine, but if one is sort of culturally Christian and from a culture where Lent has been a traditional thing because it was a church thing in the past (as in the UK and the Anglican church or lapsed Catholics or whatnot), I see it as more like celebrating secular Christmas, which is certainly common among people of Christian (or even non Christian background) who aren't actually believers themselves. It's a religious thing for me, but I think it's fine to keep some aspects of the tradition that one appreciates even if one is no longer religious.

    Yes, my perception is that the people doing this are coming from a cultural Christian context. Am I hijacking someone's sacred tradition by celebrating Christmas even though I am no longer a believer?

    I wasn't really given a choice about being raised in a society where Christianity is the assumed default. In the past, Christians worked hard to make it the default, to the point that many societies had legal penalties for non-observance and laws that enforced the moral codes associated with Christianity. If modern Christians don't care for that today and would like it to be a smaller circle, it's a bit late to put that genie back into the bottle.

    The vast majority of customs incorporated into the concept of "celebrating Christmas" have next to no nexus to actual religious observance. Most non-believers celebration of Christmas involves putting up a tree, giving gifts, singing songs, and eating a big meal, not attending a religious service, mouthing prayers and professions of belief that you know you don't believe, and lining up to participate in Communion despite a belief that you will be receiving ordinary bread and wine.

    I realize no one is going to change their non-religious appropriation of others' sacred observances just because I explain why I find it offensive.

    To be fair, Christians first appropriated the heck out of pagan customs... like Easter, the sacred day of Oestara, celebrated by decorating eggs, and Yule, with decorated trees, and December 25th, the birthday of Mithras. (Since shepherds were out when Jesus was born, he was probably born in spring.)

    I think it’s kinder, and therefore more Christian, to let other people be happy without looking for reasons to take offense.

    It's kinder not to dismiss and belittle someone's pain at having their religious practices treated as something to be borrowed for nonreligious use.

    The whole point is that it's not borrowed - I'm not Christian, but was raised Christian and live in a traditionally Christian society, therefore it's actually a part of my culture as well as yours. Just because I choose not to believe doesn't mean I exit the whole culture.
  • QuilterInVA
    QuilterInVA Posts: 672 Member
    I am giving up animal protein and fasting (not IF).
  • avtlove
    avtlove Posts: 82 Member
    Giving up all sweets this year. Wish me luck!
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    MarziPanda95 wrote: »
    Lent is more of a cultural thing in the UK, I think. Plenty of non-Christians give something up, to practice new habits or get rid of something negative in their lives. I'm agnostic but still usually give something up.

    This year I might give up ordering from Amazon. They have enough money. I'd rather my money go to small independent businesses.

    I really wish people wouldn't make a Lenten sacrifice as a "cultural" thing or in an attempt to improving themselves by changing habits. They should find something different to call it, and not tie it to other people's sacred traditions. It's like a non-Muslim saying they're going on Hajj because they've always wanted to see Saudi Arabia.

    Culture and religion and tradition are often intertwined regardless of belief or practice. Your example doesn't really make sense because I don't get the impression that people are just randomly deciding to practice lent...it would seem that people are participating in a tradition that they grew up with in a Christian culture, in Christian families, etc. Just because beliefs change doesn't mean people magically don't identify with traditions and rituals that they may have spent most of their lives engaging in.

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