ECA stack and fish oil to shrink fat cells and build more lean muscle???

angmarie28

I share an office with a lady whom I FINALLY convinced to start a lifting program instead of just exercise bike and lifting 5lb dumbells once a week. She wants to lose weight and gain muscle, so I finally got her to do an actual lifting program, so thats great. But now shes an "expert" and keeps informing me I need to start ECA stacking to shrink fat cells and fish oil to build lean muscle, and BCAAs are also needed. And I need protein shakes in the morning. Shes one that wont listen to me so I smile and nod, but seriously, we get free inbody scans at work and we are almost the same height, weight, and body type. My in body scan says I have 4lbs of fat to lose, and have more muscle than that machine says is ideal/recommended. hers however says she has like 30lbs of fat to lose, and 15lbs of muscle to gain to be Ideal.

Im seriously glad shes taking steps in the right direction, but all she talks about is a bunch "woo" and why I need it and how shes gained so much muscle since starting 3 weeks ago.

Anyways, that was long winded, but Im just curious if anyone in here does the ECA stack, and what the actual benefits (if any) are. (and no I have zero intentions of doing it, ive just never heard of it until now)

Fatty_Nuff

I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?

angmarie28

Fatty_Nuff wrote: »

I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?

Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"

jseams1234

ummm... you typically see ECA stacks and prodigious amounts of fish oil being used for what is called a Protein-Sparing Modified Fast (PSMF)... a kind of rapid fat loss protocol used mostly by bodybuilders to cut. It's a rigorous and sometimes dangerous (if done incorrectly) way to quickly cut fat but you for sure aren't going to build any muscle while doing it. It's to prevent muscle loss during the cutting phase. I've done PSMF and the ECA stack primarily helps with appetite control and to boost energy levels at the gym.

kshama2001

angmarie28 wrote: »

Fatty_Nuff wrote: »

I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?

Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"

What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra

Fatty_Nuff

kshama2001 wrote: »

What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?

Ephedra is illegal if sold as a dietary supplement. But the main active ingredient, ephedrine, is available OTC. I suspect that's what people use in the stack.

T1DCarnivoreRunner

kshama2001 wrote: »

angmarie28 wrote: »

Fatty_Nuff wrote: »

I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?

Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"

What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra

There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.

OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.

Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.

Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.

ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.

endermako

I feel ya on the woo co workers.

angmarie28

kshama2001 wrote: »

angmarie28 wrote: »

Fatty_Nuff wrote: »

I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?

Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"

What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra

she uses bronkaid. I told her about the risks, she just shot me down. oh well. She gets fixated on things and will not listen to anyone, but usually it only lasts a few weeks, so she will probably stop it soon.

snickerscharlie

angmarie28 wrote: »

kshama2001 wrote: »

angmarie28 wrote: »

Fatty_Nuff wrote: »

I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?

Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"

What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra

she uses bronkaid. I told her about the risks, she just shot me down. oh well. She gets fixated on things and will not listen to anyone, but usually it only lasts a few weeks, so she will probably stop it soon.

Unless she crashes and burns first.

Good for you for trying to steer her in the right direction. All you can do now is nod, smile, and tiptoe away...

jasonpoihegatama

It will help to increase energy and lose weight. Much like most pre workout supplements. Some people like it some don't. I never heard fish oil shrink fat cells but never really looked into fish oil I know it's meant to be good for the liver. I'm not sure about how fish oil would "shrink fat cell" But i guess only it could have the same principle as the Atkins diet. I would take BCAA when training it supports the body to tap in to use fat storage as fuel. But i find you have to find a good product.

mmapags

jasonpoihegatama wrote: »

It will help to increase energy and lose weight. Much like most pre workout supplements. Some people like it some don't. I never heard fish oil shrink fat cells but never really looked into fish oil I know it's meant to be good for the liver. I'm not sure about how fish oil would "shrink fat cell" But i guess only it could have the same principle as the Atkins diet. I would take BCAA when training it supports the body to tap in to use fat storage as fuel. But i find you have to find a good product.

I've read a lot of the current research on BCAAs and never come across anything that supports this claim. BCAA supplementation is largely useless and a waste of money. Your dietary protein has all the BCAAs you need.

If you have any studies that support this claim, please share them.

jasonpoihegatama

mmapags wrote: »

jasonpoihegatama wrote: »

It will help to increase energy and lose weight. Much like most pre workout supplements. Some people like it some don't. I never heard fish oil shrink fat cells but never really looked into fish oil I know it's meant to be good for the liver. I'm not sure about how fish oil would "shrink fat cell" But i guess only it could have the same principle as the Atkins diet. I would take BCAA when training it supports the body to tap in to use fat storage as fuel. But i find you have to find a good product.

I've read a lot of the current research on BCAAs and never come across anything that supports this claim. BCAA supplementation is largely useless and a waste of money. Your dietary protein has all the BCAAs you need.

If you have any studies that support this claim, please share them.

I wouldn't call reading label's or a web page on BCAA's research!!!

I will try and word it another way so it can correspond with what your reading. Using BCAA's when you train would help to preserve your muscle (so most of your weight loss will be body fat) And i'm not going to get into what each of the ingredients does or how it works! !. BCAA's are really good to drink when you training if you are on a low calorie diet as well. But don't be level me try it! Just fine a good brand.

mmapags

jasonpoihegatama wrote: »

mmapags wrote: »

jasonpoihegatama wrote: »

It will help to increase energy and lose weight. Much like most pre workout supplements. Some people like it some don't. I never heard fish oil shrink fat cells but never really looked into fish oil I know it's meant to be good for the liver. I'm not sure about how fish oil would "shrink fat cell" But i guess only it could have the same principle as the Atkins diet. I would take BCAA when training it supports the body to tap in to use fat storage as fuel. But i find you have to find a good product.

I've read a lot of the current research on BCAAs and never come across anything that supports this claim. BCAA supplementation is largely useless and a waste of money. Your dietary protein has all the BCAAs you need.

If you have any studies that support this claim, please share them.

I wouldn't call reading label's or a web page on BCAA's research!!!

I will try and word it another way so it can correspond with what your reading. Using BCAA's when you train would help to preserve your muscle (so most of your weight loss will be body fat) And i'm not going to get into what each of the ingredients does or how it works! !. BCAA's are really good to drink when you training if you are on a low calorie diet as well. But don't be level me try it! Just fine a good brand.

With all due respect, you are wrong. And you have provided nothing to back you claim.

http://physiqonomics.com/bcaas/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27175106
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0184-9

Based on your statement though, I'm guessing you will unconvinced. Adequate dietary protein gives you all the BCAAs you need for training and BCAAs do nothing in regard to fuel substrate utilization. If my choice is to take your word for it or believe the research, I'm going with the research.

OP, a frustrating situation. But as others have said, time to nod, smile and walk away. As we see all the time, some people will believe whatever clickbait the read without being interested in facts or research. Nothing you can do when that happens...

mmapags

An excerpt from the biomedcentral paper:
"Both of these intravenous infusion studies found that BCAAs decreased muscle protein synthesis as well as protein breakdown, meaning a decrease in muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state in which the rate of muscle protein breakdown exceeded the rate of muscle protein synthesis persisted during BCAA infusion. We conclude that the claim that consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in human subjects is unwarranted."

So, not only do 2 studies conclude that BCAAs do not preserve muscle, they actually work against muscle protein synthesis.

jasonpoihegatama

mmapags wrote: »

An excerpt from the biomedcentral paper:
"Both of these intravenous infusion studies found that BCAAs decreased muscle protein synthesis as well as protein breakdown, meaning a decrease in muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state in which the rate of muscle protein breakdown exceeded the rate of muscle protein synthesis persisted during BCAA infusion. We conclude that the claim that consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in human subjects is unwarranted."

So, not only do 2 studies conclude that BCAAs do not preserve muscle, they actually work against muscle protein synthesis.

Sure this debate has been around for 20 years it was due to how much protein the body can absorb and how much could be absorbed into the muscle due to some protein can not last long and some are slower to absorb and some are fast to absorb than others protein this So protein synthesis could not take place in the muscle.

All groups had a 100% compliance with the study protocol. The BCAA group experienced a significantly greater gain in body weight than the whey group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). For lean mass, the BCAA group gained significantly greater lean mass than the whey group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 2 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). The whey group also gained significantly more lean mass than the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02). BCAA group decreased their percent body fat significantly more than the whey group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p = 0.039) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p < 0.01). Muscular strength was significantly greater in the BCAA group on the 10-RM bench press than the whey group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 2 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01). For the squat, the BCAA group gained significantly more strength on their 10-RM than the whey group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 5 ± 3 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01).

nutmegoreo

jasonpoihegatama wrote: »

mmapags wrote: »

An excerpt from the biomedcentral paper:
"Both of these intravenous infusion studies found that BCAAs decreased muscle protein synthesis as well as protein breakdown, meaning a decrease in muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state in which the rate of muscle protein breakdown exceeded the rate of muscle protein synthesis persisted during BCAA infusion. We conclude that the claim that consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in human subjects is unwarranted."

So, not only do 2 studies conclude that BCAAs do not preserve muscle, they actually work against muscle protein synthesis.

Sure this debate has been around for 20 years it was due to how much protein the body can absorb and how much could be absorbed into the muscle due to some protein can not last long and some are slower to absorb and some are fast to absorb than others protein this So protein synthesis could not take place in the muscle.

All groups had a 100% compliance with the study protocol. The BCAA group experienced a significantly greater gain in body weight than the whey group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). For lean mass, the BCAA group gained significantly greater lean mass than the whey group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 2 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). The whey group also gained significantly more lean mass than the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02). BCAA group decreased their percent body fat significantly more than the whey group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p = 0.039) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p < 0.01). Muscular strength was significantly greater in the BCAA group on the 10-RM bench press than the whey group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 2 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01). For the squat, the BCAA group gained significantly more strength on their 10-RM than the whey group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 5 ± 3 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01).

For those interested in where this came from:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3313152/

With thanks for funding to Scivation Inc. a company that sells supplements.

jdog022

angmarie28 wrote: »

kshama2001 wrote: »

angmarie28 wrote: »

Fatty_Nuff wrote: »

I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?

Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"

What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra

she uses bronkaid. I told her about the risks, she just shot me down. oh well. She gets fixated on things and will not listen to anyone, but usually it only lasts a few weeks, so she will probably stop it soon.

It’s not safe to use the bronkaid caffeine and aspirin in those quantities and combinations for more then 6 week cycles. Hell some would argue at all. I really hope she knows what’s she’s doing because that’s stack isn’t something to mess with and is virtually useless for fat loss if calories and training aren’t on point

nutmegoreo

angmarie28 wrote: »

I share an office with a lady whom I FINALLY convinced to start a lifting program instead of just exercise bike and lifting 5lb dumbells once a week. She wants to lose weight and gain muscle, so I finally got her to do an actual lifting program, so thats great. But now shes an "expert" and keeps informing me I need to start ECA stacking to shrink fat cells and fish oil to build lean muscle, and BCAAs are also needed. And I need protein shakes in the morning. Shes one that wont listen to me so I smile and nod, but seriously, we get free inbody scans at work and we are almost the same height, weight, and body type. My in body scan says I have 4lbs of fat to lose, and have more muscle than that machine says is ideal/recommended. hers however says she has like 30lbs of fat to lose, and 15lbs of muscle to gain to be Ideal.

Im seriously glad shes taking steps in the right direction, but all she talks about is a bunch "woo" and why I need it and how shes gained so much muscle since starting 3 weeks ago.

Anyways, that was long winded, but Im just curious if anyone in here does the ECA stack, and what the actual benefits (if any) are. (and no I have zero intentions of doing it, ive just never heard of it until now)

I agree with the others of just backing away and try to not engage in those conversations. The zealotry of the newly converted is difficult to argue against, because "don't confuse me with facts." You seem to be doing well, so you do you. She'll either crash and burn, or she'll get it eventually. Sometimes people need to slam their fingers in the door a few times before they decide to change how they hold it.

pierinifitness

I say cheer her on but let her find her way. She’ll stumble and learn like we all have. That’s good learning. Focus on yourself but do cheer her on while you plug your nose and hold your breath when she utters someone else’s nonsense.

rheddmobile

The ephedra/caffeine combo won't do anything useful but it can for darn sure give you irregular heartbeats. When I was working in a stable in college I took ephedrine-containing meds all the time for allergies, and had to stop because of pvcs. Caffeine makes it worse. Not fun!

jasonpoihegatama

nutmegoreo wrote: »

jasonpoihegatama wrote: »

mmapags wrote: »

An excerpt from the biomedcentral paper:
"Both of these intravenous infusion studies found that BCAAs decreased muscle protein synthesis as well as protein breakdown, meaning a decrease in muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state in which the rate of muscle protein breakdown exceeded the rate of muscle protein synthesis persisted during BCAA infusion. We conclude that the claim that consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in human subjects is unwarranted."

So, not only do 2 studies conclude that BCAAs do not preserve muscle, they actually work against muscle protein synthesis.

Sure this debate has been around for 20 years it was due to how much protein the body can absorb and how much could be absorbed into the muscle due to some protein can not last long and some are slower to absorb and some are fast to absorb than others protein this So protein synthesis could not take place in the muscle.

All groups had a 100% compliance with the study protocol. The BCAA group experienced a significantly greater gain in body weight than the whey group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). For lean mass, the BCAA group gained significantly greater lean mass than the whey group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 2 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). The whey group also gained significantly more lean mass than the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02). BCAA group decreased their percent body fat significantly more than the whey group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p = 0.039) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p < 0.01). Muscular strength was significantly greater in the BCAA group on the 10-RM bench press than the whey group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 2 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01). For the squat, the BCAA group gained significantly more strength on their 10-RM than the whey group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 5 ± 3 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01).

For those interested in where this came from:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3313152/

With thanks for funding to Scivation Inc. a company that sells supplements.

Yes most studies would be funded by supplements company's. And the products has to meat FDA regulation.

ahoy_m8

What regulations do the FDA enforce for supplements?

jasonpoihegatama

ahoy_m8 wrote: »

What regulations do the FDA enforce for supplements?

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is a government agency established in 1906 with the passage of the Federal Food and Drugs Act.

ahoy_m8

And do they actually regulate supplements?

ETA ref to Orrin Hatch DSHEA of 1994.

jasonpoihegatama

No sorry they don't . Your right!

magnusthenerd

jasonpoihegatama wrote: »

nutmegoreo wrote: »

jasonpoihegatama wrote: »

mmapags wrote: »

An excerpt from the biomedcentral paper:
"Both of these intravenous infusion studies found that BCAAs decreased muscle protein synthesis as well as protein breakdown, meaning a decrease in muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state in which the rate of muscle protein breakdown exceeded the rate of muscle protein synthesis persisted during BCAA infusion. We conclude that the claim that consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in human subjects is unwarranted."

So, not only do 2 studies conclude that BCAAs do not preserve muscle, they actually work against muscle protein synthesis.

Sure this debate has been around for 20 years it was due to how much protein the body can absorb and how much could be absorbed into the muscle due to some protein can not last long and some are slower to absorb and some are fast to absorb than others protein this So protein synthesis could not take place in the muscle.

All groups had a 100% compliance with the study protocol. The BCAA group experienced a significantly greater gain in body weight than the whey group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). For lean mass, the BCAA group gained significantly greater lean mass than the whey group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 2 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (4 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.01). The whey group also gained significantly more lean mass than the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1 kg vs. 1 ± 1 kg; p < 0.02). BCAA group decreased their percent body fat significantly more than the whey group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p = 0.039) and the carbohydrate group (2 ± 1% vs. 1 ± 1%; p < 0.01). Muscular strength was significantly greater in the BCAA group on the 10-RM bench press than the whey group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (6 ± 3 kg vs. 2 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01). For the squat, the BCAA group gained significantly more strength on their 10-RM than the whey group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 5 ± 3 kg; p < 0.01) and the carbohydrate group (11 ± 5 kg vs. 3 ± 2 kg; p < 0.01).

For those interested in where this came from:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3313152/

With thanks for funding to Scivation Inc. a company that sells supplements.

Yes most studies would be funded by supplements company's. And the products has to meat FDA regulation.

Well more importantly than the group funding the study is how abysmal that actual study is. When I looked up the paper, I thought I was getting the Pubmed extract, but honestly, that's it. There is no real methodology, just "we gave some guys carbs, some guys why, and some BCAA's" - that's it. No explanations of how they assigned people to groups - if there was any coordination for experience with training. No explanation of what extent protein intake was equalized across groups.
Even the numbers just look fishy. What kind of study has results with 1 significant digit in with a ± 1 variance, particularly for some numbers that are a 2, or a 6± 3?
The only thing useful about this study is as an example of how not to present a study.

Phirrgus

mmapags wrote: »

With all due respect, you are wrong. And you have provided nothing to back you claim.

http://physiqonomics.com/bcaas/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27175106
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0184-9

Based on your statement though, I'm guessing you will unconvinced. Adequate dietary protein gives you all the BCAAs you need for training and BCAAs do nothing in regard to fuel substrate utilization. If my choice is to take your word for it or believe the research, I'm going with the research.

OP, a frustrating situation. But as others have said, time to nod, smile and walk away. As we see all the time, some people will believe whatever clickbait the read without being interested in facts or research. Nothing you can do when that happens...

mmapags wrote: »

An excerpt from the biomedcentral paper:
"Both of these intravenous infusion studies found that BCAAs decreased muscle protein synthesis as well as protein breakdown, meaning a decrease in muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state in which the rate of muscle protein breakdown exceeded the rate of muscle protein synthesis persisted during BCAA infusion. We conclude that the claim that consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in human subjects is unwarranted."

So, not only do 2 studies conclude that BCAAs do not preserve muscle, they actually work against muscle protein synthesis.

Thank you. I've been on the fence about buying another tub - the first was given to me - and a good friend swears by BCAAs.

Appreciate your posting this.

jasonpoihegatama

The substance used in supplements has to have already been approved by the FDA but i guess you wouldn't have a clue of the FDA test?. But you would have to try it for yourself this will be the best way instead of trying to understand numbers you cannot comprehend this way you can see if it works for you or not simple.

magnusthenerd

jasonpoihegatama wrote: »

The substance used in supplements has to have already been approved by the FDA but i guess you wouldn't have a clue of the FDA test?. But you would have to try it for yourself this will be the best way instead of trying to understand numbers you cannot comprehend this way you can see if it works for you or not simple.

I thought the DSHEA comment already covered the FDA.

As far as trying something for one self, that seems one of the worst possible ways of testing something, given the existence of the placebo effect, and just how hard it is to do a blind study on one-self.

I far prefer the already established ways of testing the effectiveness of substances found in science.

CharlieBeansmomTracey

midwesterner85 wrote: »

kshama2001 wrote: »

angmarie28 wrote: »

Fatty_Nuff wrote: »

I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?

Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"

What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra

There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.

OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.

Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.

Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.

ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.

Fatty_Nuff wrote: »

kshama2001 wrote: »

What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?

Ephedra is illegal if sold as a dietary supplement. But the main active ingredient, ephedrine, is available OTC. I suspect that's what people use in the stack.

actually in most states ephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter which means you have to show your license and sign a thing and they limit you as to how much you can buy. most people use it to make meth which is why they put this in place. They also watch you to see what other items you may be buying that could be used in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. hell Ive been ID'ed just buying drain cleaner for my drains. I dont buy any meds behind the counter though as I dont need them.