ECA stack and fish oil to shrink fat cells and build more lean muscle???
Replies
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magnusthenerd wrote: »
I thought the DSHEA comment already covered the FDA.jasonpoihegatama wrote: »The substance used in supplements has to have already been approved by the FDA but i guess you wouldn't have a clue of the FDA test?. But you would have to try it for yourself this will be the best way instead of trying to understand numbers you cannot comprehend this way you can see if it works for you or not simple.
As far as trying something for one self, that seems one of the worst possible ways of testing something, given the existence of the placebo effect, and just how hard it is to do a blind study on one-self.
I far prefer the already established ways of testing the effectiveness of substances found in science.
Good luck with the numbers! LOl7 -
jasonpoihegatama wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
I thought the DSHEA comment already covered the FDA.jasonpoihegatama wrote: »The substance used in supplements has to have already been approved by the FDA but i guess you wouldn't have a clue of the FDA test?. But you would have to try it for yourself this will be the best way instead of trying to understand numbers you cannot comprehend this way you can see if it works for you or not simple.
As far as trying something for one self, that seems one of the worst possible ways of testing something, given the existence of the placebo effect, and just how hard it is to do a blind study on one-self.
I far prefer the already established ways of testing the effectiveness of substances found in science.
Good luck with the numbers! LOl
There are plenty of people here with the training to understand studies and the numbers involved. I don’t know why you would assume nobody can.4 -
So i moved this to BB. Discussions regarding ECA is only allowed in this subforum based on its inherent risk if not cycled or taken correctly.
Similarly with diet techniques such as PSMF, RFL, etc....
Carry on!3 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angmarie28 wrote: »Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?
Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"
What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.
OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.
Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.
Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.
ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.
Have you run UD2? Lyle McDonald talks about this pretty extensively in that book. Mobilizing fats to help address stubbord areas is why he cycles keto with carb refeeds. Once i am done my cycle of PSMF, i am considering going back to UD2 for that reason.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angmarie28 wrote: »Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?
Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"
What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.
OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.
Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.
Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.
ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.Fatty_Nuff wrote: »
Ephedra is illegal if sold as a dietary supplement. But the main active ingredient, ephedrine, is available OTC. I suspect that's what people use in the stack.kshama2001 wrote: »What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
actually in most states ephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter which means you have to show your license and sign a thing and they limit you as to how much you can buy. most people use it to make meth which is why they put this in place. They also watch you to see what other items you may be buying that could be used in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. hell Ive been ID'ed just buying drain cleaner for my drains. I dont buy any meds behind the counter though as I dont need them.
Thanks, but you are talking about pseudoephedrine.3 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angmarie28 wrote: »Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?
Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"
What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.
OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.
Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.
Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.
ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.
Have you run UD2? Lyle McDonald talks about this pretty extensively in that book. Mobilizing fats to help address stubbord areas is why he cycles keto with carb refeeds. Once i am done my cycle of PSMF, i am considering going back to UD2 for that reason.
No, I have done RFL, but haven't read his other books.
ETA: People on keto are not as glycogen depleted as they want to think. Yes, they have less glycogen stored, but there is still quite a bit to access. The ECA stack depletes glycogen further. Last time I did something similar to RFL, but decided on my own to skip the cheats and glycogen refeeds. Unfortunately, I ended up getting forced to have a glycogen refeed... BG went too low and I had absolutely nothing to self-rescue. Paramedics ended up goving me D50.
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jasonpoihegatama wrote: »The substance used in supplements has to have already been approved by the FDA but i guess you wouldn't have a clue of the FDA test?. But you would have to try it for yourself this will be the best way instead of trying to understand numbers you cannot comprehend this way you can see if it works for you or not simple.
Yes, everyone does have a clue about "the FDA test," whatever that's supposed to mean. The clue is that the FDA does not approve or regulate supplements. They can contain powdered pig poop as far as you know.
Thinking how to explain why trying something for yourself is not the same as science is making me sad. Let's go:
One person's experience doesn't prove anything, ever. That one person could have a million things going on with him other than taking or not taking a supplement, leading to the observed results. Also, it's very difficult for a single person to act as a control group for himself. If you start working out and taking a supplement, and get larger, was it because you took the supplement, or because you started working out? What would have happened over the same time period if you hadn't taken the supplement? You can't know. Also, in the case of factors which are not easily measured like "feeling better" or "hitting my workouts harder" it's impossible to tell if something is really happening or if you just think it is, because you know you are taking a supplement, and you expect results. This is called the placebo effect. The placebo effect is one reason a control group is so important, because if the control group also sees an unexpected improvement, you know it's not because of the supplement.
How to run a science experiment with a control group, how to control for variables other than the one being measured, how to read and interpret a study, how to pay attention to bias in the group conducting the study, and the existence of the placebo effect are all things that are taught in school that really any basic adult needs to understand to function in a modern society. Without knowing these concepts, you're at the mercy of whatever someone wants to sell you.4 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angmarie28 wrote: »Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?
Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"
What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.
OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.
Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.
Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.
ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.Fatty_Nuff wrote: »
Ephedra is illegal if sold as a dietary supplement. But the main active ingredient, ephedrine, is available OTC. I suspect that's what people use in the stack.kshama2001 wrote: »What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
actually in most states ephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter which means you have to show your license and sign a thing and they limit you as to how much you can buy. most people use it to make meth which is why they put this in place. They also watch you to see what other items you may be buying that could be used in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. hell Ive been ID'ed just buying drain cleaner for my drains. I dont buy any meds behind the counter though as I dont need them.
Thanks, but you are talking about pseudoephedrine.
no Im talking about ephedrine products too . http://www.namsdl.org/library/80C44CE7-1C23-D4F9-74E686FED14B0ED4/ bronkaid has ephedrine in it. not pseudoephedrine. I know what my state will card you for . many drugs are behind the counter here due to having ephedrine and pseudoephedrine in them. bronkaid being one of them IF you can find a store that carries it.. same with primatene tablets0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angmarie28 wrote: »Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?
Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"
What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.
OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.
Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.
Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.
ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.Fatty_Nuff wrote: »
Ephedra is illegal if sold as a dietary supplement. But the main active ingredient, ephedrine, is available OTC. I suspect that's what people use in the stack.kshama2001 wrote: »What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
actually in most states ephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter which means you have to show your license and sign a thing and they limit you as to how much you can buy. most people use it to make meth which is why they put this in place. They also watch you to see what other items you may be buying that could be used in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. hell Ive been ID'ed just buying drain cleaner for my drains. I dont buy any meds behind the counter though as I dont need them.
Thanks, but you are talking about pseudoephedrine.
no Im talking about ephedrine products too . http://www.namsdl.org/library/80C44CE7-1C23-D4F9-74E686FED14B0ED4/ bronkaid has ephedrine in it. not pseudoephedrine. I know what my state will card you for . many drugs are behind the counter here due to having ephedrine and pseudoephedrine in them. bronkaid being one of them IF you can find a store that carries it.. same with primatene tablets
OK, I've not seen ephedrine available for years. So yes, you are correct... IF you can find ephedrine available at a store, I agree you would have to show ID. Typically, pseudoephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter and ephedrine containing products are not sold at all.0 -
rheddmobile wrote: »jasonpoihegatama wrote: »The substance used in supplements has to have already been approved by the FDA but i guess you wouldn't have a clue of the FDA test?. But you would have to try it for yourself this will be the best way instead of trying to understand numbers you cannot comprehend this way you can see if it works for you or not simple.
Yes, everyone does have a clue about "the FDA test," whatever that's supposed to mean. The clue is that the FDA does not approve or regulate supplements. They can contain powdered pig poop as far as you know.
Thinking how to explain why trying something for yourself is not the same as science is making me sad. Let's go:
One person's experience doesn't prove anything, ever. That one person could have a million things going on with him other than taking or not taking a supplement, leading to the observed results. Also, it's very difficult for a single person to act as a control group for himself. If you start working out and taking a supplement, and get larger, was it because you took the supplement, or because you started working out? What would have happened over the same time period if you hadn't taken the supplement? You can't know. Also, in the case of factors which are not easily measured like "feeling better" or "hitting my workouts harder" it's impossible to tell if something is really happening or if you just think it is, because you know you are taking a supplement, and you expect results. This is called the placebo effect. The placebo effect is one reason a control group is so important, because if the control group also sees an unexpected improvement, you know it's not because of the supplement.
How to run a science experiment with a control group, how to control for variables other than the one being measured, how to read and interpret a study, how to pay attention to bias in the group conducting the study, and the existence of the placebo effect are all things that are taught in school that really any basic adult needs to understand to function in a modern society. Without knowing these concepts, you're at the mercy of whatever someone wants to sell you.
Well you need to read the FDA Act again. Because no one can use an unknown ingredient in supplements. You can put salt in cause it's been used in foodstuffs already and the FDA has approved salt for human consumption.
You bring up a good point everyone is different. And that's why the debate about protein absorbing and protein synthesis has been around for 20 odd years. I know there are some good BCAA's products and some bad ones.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angmarie28 wrote: »Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?
Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"
What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.
OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.
Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.
Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.
ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.Fatty_Nuff wrote: »
Ephedra is illegal if sold as a dietary supplement. But the main active ingredient, ephedrine, is available OTC. I suspect that's what people use in the stack.kshama2001 wrote: »What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
actually in most states ephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter which means you have to show your license and sign a thing and they limit you as to how much you can buy. most people use it to make meth which is why they put this in place. They also watch you to see what other items you may be buying that could be used in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. hell Ive been ID'ed just buying drain cleaner for my drains. I dont buy any meds behind the counter though as I dont need them.
Thanks, but you are talking about pseudoephedrine.
no Im talking about ephedrine products too . http://www.namsdl.org/library/80C44CE7-1C23-D4F9-74E686FED14B0ED4/ bronkaid has ephedrine in it. not pseudoephedrine. I know what my state will card you for . many drugs are behind the counter here due to having ephedrine and pseudoephedrine in them. bronkaid being one of them IF you can find a store that carries it.. same with primatene tablets
OK, I've not seen ephedrine available for years. So yes, you are correct... IF you can find ephedrine available at a store, I agree you would have to show ID. Typically, pseudoephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter and ephedrine containing products are not sold at all.
those meds I mentioned are sold and contain ephedrine but are behind the counter too. but those are the only ones I know of that contain it. there may be others not for asthma that have those things in it.It varies from state to state too and their laws as I looked up different states in the post I posted above and it does vary.0 -
I just read that Bronkaid is usually used for asthma and is the 'new' Adderall. Most of the users are bodybuilding.com bro's swearing by the fat melting off...in combo with keto..😑0
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Silkysausage wrote: »I just read that Bronkaid is usually used for asthma and is the 'new' Adderall. Most of the users are bodybuilding.com bro's swearing by the fat melting off...in combo with keto..😑CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angmarie28 wrote: »Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?
Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"
What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.
OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.
Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.
Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.
ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.Fatty_Nuff wrote: »
Ephedra is illegal if sold as a dietary supplement. But the main active ingredient, ephedrine, is available OTC. I suspect that's what people use in the stack.kshama2001 wrote: »What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
actually in most states ephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter which means you have to show your license and sign a thing and they limit you as to how much you can buy. most people use it to make meth which is why they put this in place. They also watch you to see what other items you may be buying that could be used in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. hell Ive been ID'ed just buying drain cleaner for my drains. I dont buy any meds behind the counter though as I dont need them.
Thanks, but you are talking about pseudoephedrine.
no Im talking about ephedrine products too . http://www.namsdl.org/library/80C44CE7-1C23-D4F9-74E686FED14B0ED4/ bronkaid has ephedrine in it. not pseudoephedrine. I know what my state will card you for . many drugs are behind the counter here due to having ephedrine and pseudoephedrine in them. bronkaid being one of them IF you can find a store that carries it.. same with primatene tablets
OK, I've not seen ephedrine available for years. So yes, you are correct... IF you can find ephedrine available at a store, I agree you would have to show ID. Typically, pseudoephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter and ephedrine containing products are not sold at all.
those meds I mentioned are sold and contain ephedrine but are behind the counter too. but those are the only ones I know of that contain it. there may be others not for asthma that have those things in it.It varies from state to state too and their laws as I looked up different states in the post I posted above and it does vary.
Yes, I've heard that too, but haven't found it. I will acknowledge that it may be my perspective. BronkAid's website lists a bunch of retailers where it is sold and I live in a rural area. The city where I live has none of those retailers. The closest is a Wal-Mart on the opposite side of my county, and that is a small Wal-Mart that does not carry as much as a big city Wal-Mart.
ETA: I do travel the U.S. extensively (I've been in each of the lower 48 states) and can't say I've seen it anywhere else either. However, I haven't been asking for it and since it isn't advertised or listed as for sale, that also makes sense why I haven't seen it for sale.1 -
Silkysausage wrote: »I just read that Bronkaid is usually used for asthma and is the 'new' Adderall. Most of the users are bodybuilding.com bro's swearing by the fat melting off...in combo with keto..😑
yes it is used for asthma so is primatene. they used to have the inhalers too but last I knew they discontinued them due to the propellants being used were banned1 -
Primatene mist (epinephrine) literally just came back on the market October 2018 (back from hell after the Asthmanefrin fiasco) =/= primatene tablets (ephedrine HCl + gauifenesin). Note: Ephedra is banned; ephedrine (in combo with gauifenesin has always been available). Only available form of Ephedra is in tea version (labeling not claiming as a supplement does not get restricted by DHSEA apparently...because America and legal loopholes...><)
Yes, pseudoephedrine/ephedrine + gauifenesin combo is Rx only in a few select states (ex) Oregon). Most states it's OTC status though0 -
Keto_Vampire wrote: »Note: Ephedra is banned; ephedrine (in combo with gauifenesin has always been available). Only available form of Ephedra is in tea version (labeling not claiming as a supplement does not get restricted by DHSEA apparently...because America and legal loopholes...><)
No, ephedrine is banned - in dietary supplements (which is why it doesn't apply to products like BronkAid because those are not dietary supplements).
Here is the FDA rule:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2004-02-11/html/04-2912.htm2 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angmarie28 wrote: »Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?
Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"
What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.
OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.
Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.
Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.
ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.Fatty_Nuff wrote: »
Ephedra is illegal if sold as a dietary supplement. But the main active ingredient, ephedrine, is available OTC. I suspect that's what people use in the stack.kshama2001 wrote: »What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
actually in most states ephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter which means you have to show your license and sign a thing and they limit you as to how much you can buy. most people use it to make meth which is why they put this in place. They also watch you to see what other items you may be buying that could be used in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. hell Ive been ID'ed just buying drain cleaner for my drains. I dont buy any meds behind the counter though as I dont need them.
Thanks, but you are talking about pseudoephedrine.
no Im talking about ephedrine products too . http://www.namsdl.org/library/80C44CE7-1C23-D4F9-74E686FED14B0ED4/ bronkaid has ephedrine in it. not pseudoephedrine. I know what my state will card you for . many drugs are behind the counter here due to having ephedrine and pseudoephedrine in them. bronkaid being one of them IF you can find a store that carries it.. same with primatene tablets
OK, I've not seen ephedrine available for years. So yes, you are correct... IF you can find ephedrine available at a store, I agree you would have to show ID. Typically, pseudoephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter and ephedrine containing products are not sold at all.midwesterner85 wrote: »Keto_Vampire wrote: »Note: Ephedra is banned; ephedrine (in combo with gauifenesin has always been available). Only available form of Ephedra is in tea version (labeling not claiming as a supplement does not get restricted by DHSEA apparently...because America and legal loopholes...><)
No, ephedrine is banned - in dietary supplements (which is why it doesn't apply to products like BronkAid because those are not dietary supplements).
Here is the FDA rule:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2004-02-11/html/04-2912.htm
So rather than admit you were wrong, you just shift the goalposts.5 -
johnslater461 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angmarie28 wrote: »Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?
Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"
What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.
OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.
Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.
Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.
ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.Fatty_Nuff wrote: »
Ephedra is illegal if sold as a dietary supplement. But the main active ingredient, ephedrine, is available OTC. I suspect that's what people use in the stack.kshama2001 wrote: »What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
actually in most states ephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter which means you have to show your license and sign a thing and they limit you as to how much you can buy. most people use it to make meth which is why they put this in place. They also watch you to see what other items you may be buying that could be used in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. hell Ive been ID'ed just buying drain cleaner for my drains. I dont buy any meds behind the counter though as I dont need them.
Thanks, but you are talking about pseudoephedrine.
no Im talking about ephedrine products too . http://www.namsdl.org/library/80C44CE7-1C23-D4F9-74E686FED14B0ED4/ bronkaid has ephedrine in it. not pseudoephedrine. I know what my state will card you for . many drugs are behind the counter here due to having ephedrine and pseudoephedrine in them. bronkaid being one of them IF you can find a store that carries it.. same with primatene tablets
OK, I've not seen ephedrine available for years. So yes, you are correct... IF you can find ephedrine available at a store, I agree you would have to show ID. Typically, pseudoephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter and ephedrine containing products are not sold at all.midwesterner85 wrote: »Keto_Vampire wrote: »Note: Ephedra is banned; ephedrine (in combo with gauifenesin has always been available). Only available form of Ephedra is in tea version (labeling not claiming as a supplement does not get restricted by DHSEA apparently...because America and legal loopholes...><)
No, ephedrine is banned - in dietary supplements (which is why it doesn't apply to products like BronkAid because those are not dietary supplements).
Here is the FDA rule:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2004-02-11/html/04-2912.htm
So rather than admit you were wrong, you just shift the goalposts.
Not true. I can admit when I'm wrong. I should have clarified ephedrine is not sold at all as a supplement. The original way it is written is technically incorrect because, as has been discussed at length, ephedrine IS sold as a medication... not that I have ever found it, but I am aware it exists as a medication.
The original subject - ECA stacks - would not and could not contain ephedrine because they are supplements. They contain ephedra. This only got derailed to medications rather than supplements because many people fail to recognize that ephedra is legal and end up buying a medicine with a similar ingredient and take it as a supplement.
ETA: And if you really want to take people to task about being wrong and demand that they make some formal admission each time, notice those saying that ephedra is banned... they are wrong as well.
ETA again: And to clarify, what I posted and you quoted above is not technically wrong even, when you include the entire sentence rather than just the bolded part. Typically, ephedrine is not sold at all. Typically. Yes, there are some stores that sell it, and they sell it only as a medicine because it is illegal otherwise.4 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angmarie28 wrote: »Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?
Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"
What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.
OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.
Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.
Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.
ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.Fatty_Nuff wrote: »
Ephedra is illegal if sold as a dietary supplement. But the main active ingredient, ephedrine, is available OTC. I suspect that's what people use in the stack.kshama2001 wrote: »What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
actually in most states ephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter which means you have to show your license and sign a thing and they limit you as to how much you can buy. most people use it to make meth which is why they put this in place. They also watch you to see what other items you may be buying that could be used in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. hell Ive been ID'ed just buying drain cleaner for my drains. I dont buy any meds behind the counter though as I dont need them.
Thanks, but you are talking about pseudoephedrine.
no Im talking about ephedrine products too . http://www.namsdl.org/library/80C44CE7-1C23-D4F9-74E686FED14B0ED4/ bronkaid has ephedrine in it. not pseudoephedrine. I know what my state will card you for . many drugs are behind the counter here due to having ephedrine and pseudoephedrine in them. bronkaid being one of them IF you can find a store that carries it.. same with primatene tablets
OK, I've not seen ephedrine available for years. So yes, you are correct... IF you can find ephedrine available at a store, I agree you would have to show ID. Typically, pseudoephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter and ephedrine containing products are not sold at all.midwesterner85 wrote: »Keto_Vampire wrote: »Note: Ephedra is banned; ephedrine (in combo with gauifenesin has always been available). Only available form of Ephedra is in tea version (labeling not claiming as a supplement does not get restricted by DHSEA apparently...because America and legal loopholes...><)
No, ephedrine is banned - in dietary supplements (which is why it doesn't apply to products like BronkAid because those are not dietary supplements).
Here is the FDA rule:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2004-02-11/html/04-2912.htm
So rather than admit you were wrong, you just shift the goalposts.
Not true. I can admit when I'm wrong. I should have clarified ephedrine is not sold at all as a supplement. The original way it is written is technically incorrect because, as has been discussed at length, ephedrine IS sold as a medication... not that I have ever found it, but I am aware it exists as a medication.
The original subject - ECA stacks - would not and could not contain ephedrine because they are supplements. They contain ephedra. This only got derailed to medications rather than supplements because many people fail to recognize that ephedra is legal and end up buying a medicine with a similar ingredient and take it as a supplement.
ETA: And if you really want to take people to task about being wrong and demand that they make some formal admission each time, notice those saying that ephedra is banned... they are wrong as well.
The mental gymnastics you go through to avoid admitting that you were wrong probably burned more calories than any ECA stack.4 -
johnslater461 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angmarie28 wrote: »Fatty_Nuff wrote: »I suspect your friend was contaminated by bad advice from some fitness trainer. If ECA (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin) "shrank" fat cells and caused weight loss, do you really think any of us would still be here?
Shes a victim of the internet "fitness experts"
What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
There is a difference between ephedra and ephedrine - ephedrine is banned and ephedra is legal. It is important to note that it is banned during competition on the WADA list... so anyone competing at that level needs to stop taking it at least a few days before the competition to be sure it is fully metabolized before going into competition. Otherwise, you get in trouble for doping.
OP, I've taken an ECA stack at various times. It does 2 things:
1. It increases RMR by a few percentage points. This comes from both the ephedra and the caffeine.
2. It helps to mobilize "stubborn fat." I'll explain because I know this community will tell you that the idea of "stubborn fat" is a fairy tale, but it is an actual thing. *Yes, I expect this to get tons of "Woos," but I believe it will also help those who are open minded enough to keep reading.
Our fat cells contain mitochondria, like other cells. Fat cell mitochondria has 2 receptors that are relevant to storage and release of fat - alpha-2 receptors and beta-2 receptors. Alpha-2 keep fat stored / blocks release of fat while beta-2 helps release fat from storage to be used as energy. Not all fat cells contain the same ration of A2:B2 receptors. Specifically, fat with a higher ration of A2:B2 is the last to be lost when trying to lose weight... and some of us find it very difficult to get our bodies to mobilize that fat at all. For me, I suspect it is related to a health condition I have, but am not entirely familiar with the complexities as to why/how and there isn't likely much I can do about it. Anyway, the reason people lose fat in large amounts from certain body areas first and seem to lose little or nothing in other areas is a result of the A2:B2 ratio in certain fat cells.
Ephedra helps to block alpha-2 receptors. So it blocks the receptors that block release of fat. Thing is, someone who is very over-fat is not likely in need of such a thing. This is most helpful when getting down to the last body fat - the "stubborn fat" that is last to leave. It sounds like she doesn't need that just yet. Still, the increased RMR helps a little bit. Often, an ECA stack is taken along-side yohimbe / yohimbine, which is a beta-2 agonist... it increases effectiveness of the receptors that release fat.
ETA: Legal issue about ephedra/ephedrine is for U.S. I can't say about other countries because I don't know.Fatty_Nuff wrote: »
Ephedra is illegal if sold as a dietary supplement. But the main active ingredient, ephedrine, is available OTC. I suspect that's what people use in the stack.kshama2001 wrote: »What ephedra is she taking? I thought that was banned in the US now but I see the legal status is complicated. Does she know about the gastrointestinal, psychiatric, and autonomic side effects?
actually in most states ephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter which means you have to show your license and sign a thing and they limit you as to how much you can buy. most people use it to make meth which is why they put this in place. They also watch you to see what other items you may be buying that could be used in the manufacturing of illegal drugs. hell Ive been ID'ed just buying drain cleaner for my drains. I dont buy any meds behind the counter though as I dont need them.
Thanks, but you are talking about pseudoephedrine.
no Im talking about ephedrine products too . http://www.namsdl.org/library/80C44CE7-1C23-D4F9-74E686FED14B0ED4/ bronkaid has ephedrine in it. not pseudoephedrine. I know what my state will card you for . many drugs are behind the counter here due to having ephedrine and pseudoephedrine in them. bronkaid being one of them IF you can find a store that carries it.. same with primatene tablets
OK, I've not seen ephedrine available for years. So yes, you are correct... IF you can find ephedrine available at a store, I agree you would have to show ID. Typically, pseudoephedrine containing products are sold behind the counter and ephedrine containing products are not sold at all.midwesterner85 wrote: »Keto_Vampire wrote: »Note: Ephedra is banned; ephedrine (in combo with gauifenesin has always been available). Only available form of Ephedra is in tea version (labeling not claiming as a supplement does not get restricted by DHSEA apparently...because America and legal loopholes...><)
No, ephedrine is banned - in dietary supplements (which is why it doesn't apply to products like BronkAid because those are not dietary supplements).
Here is the FDA rule:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2004-02-11/html/04-2912.htm
So rather than admit you were wrong, you just shift the goalposts.
Not true. I can admit when I'm wrong. I should have clarified ephedrine is not sold at all as a supplement. The original way it is written is technically incorrect because, as has been discussed at length, ephedrine IS sold as a medication... not that I have ever found it, but I am aware it exists as a medication.
The original subject - ECA stacks - would not and could not contain ephedrine because they are supplements. They contain ephedra. This only got derailed to medications rather than supplements because many people fail to recognize that ephedra is legal and end up buying a medicine with a similar ingredient and take it as a supplement.
ETA: And if you really want to take people to task about being wrong and demand that they make some formal admission each time, notice those saying that ephedra is banned... they are wrong as well.
The mental gymnastics you go through to avoid admitting that you were wrong probably burned more calories than any ECA stack.
I'm going to stop responding to you after this because you are seriously derailing this thread and on the verge of a personal attack. You can argue the facts about what is or isn't banned; but multiple posts to make a fuss wanting someone else to make some admission of being wrong based on your misunderstanding is beyond derailment and getting awfully close to a personal attack.4 -
You guys have to much free time. The bottom line is you can still legally build your own ECA stacks. it IS an effective fat burning stack and really excels as an appetite suppressant but only if cycled. It’s also potentially life threatening if abused or cycled incorrectly or just not tolerated. Can kill someone with an unknown underlying heart condition.
The OPs friend is likely not someone who should be using it based on what little we know.2 -
Highlighted sources of confusion & loophole allowing for sale of ephedra (not containing ephedrine alkaloids)
"The names desert herb, squaw tea, Brigham tea, and Mormon tea
refer to North American species of Ephedra that do not contain
ephedrine alkaloids but have been misused to identify ephedrine
alkaloid containing ingredients. Although the proportions of the
various ephedrine alkaloids in botanical species vary from one species
to another, in most species used commercially, ephedrine is typically
the predominant alkaloid in the raw material (Ref. 10)."
Example:
https://bestpricenutrition.com/products/hi-tech-pharmaceuticals-lipodrene-w-25mg-ephedra-extract-100-tabs-1
I just do not understand why anyone would opt a sketchy questionable extract when a pure ingredient with known dose and oversight (quality control, regulation) is available behind the counter (in most US states)2
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