Low Calorie Protein Dense foods?
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@Spadesheart My pleasure, just wanted to make sure you understand where we're coming from and that it's not just picking at you
@lemurcat2 Fair enough, I struggle a lot with protein so I would probably have to mainline protein shakes to get 150g every day
Of course, I wouldn't ask here if I was uncomfortable. This is a good resource.0 -
Spadesheart wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »What I'm taking from this thread so far is that you're aiming for a larger than 1000-calorie deficit from your maintenance each day, aiming for 2.2 to 2.8 pounds lost per week, looking to have a diet that's 50% protein, and getting most of that protein from protein powder.
Leaving aside the incredibly aggressive deficit, which others have tried to address and I think is still a bad idea, I'm concerned about the idea that 30-50% of your calories would come from protein powder. I'm not familiar with the brands you've chosen, but the reason most people aim to get their protein from food rather than shakes is that the food comes along with other vitamins that your body needs where the powder does not. Is this a fortified protein that's meant to be used as a real meal replacement?
I mean, my diary is open I think. Pretty sure anyone can see what I'm eating. You're welcome to critique.
Trust me, I don't want to drink that much powder if I can avoid it hahaha.
It's not open. I can only respond to what you've told us in this thread.1 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Spadesheart wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »What I'm taking from this thread so far is that you're aiming for a larger than 1000-calorie deficit from your maintenance each day, aiming for 2.2 to 2.8 pounds lost per week, looking to have a diet that's 50% protein, and getting most of that protein from protein powder.
Leaving aside the incredibly aggressive deficit, which others have tried to address and I think is still a bad idea, I'm concerned about the idea that 30-50% of your calories would come from protein powder. I'm not familiar with the brands you've chosen, but the reason most people aim to get their protein from food rather than shakes is that the food comes along with other vitamins that your body needs where the powder does not. Is this a fortified protein that's meant to be used as a real meal replacement?
I mean, my diary is open I think. Pretty sure anyone can see what I'm eating. You're welcome to critique.
Trust me, I don't want to drink that much powder if I can avoid it hahaha.
It's not open. I can only respond to what you've told us in this thread.
Yeah it was set to friends. There, it's open.0 -
Spadesheart wrote: »You really should not need that much protein powder. Are you vegetarian/vegan? What else do you eat in a normal day?
He's trying to get 150g of protein in 1200-1500 cals per day.
OP, the easy answer is to eat a reasonable amount of calories and not set yourself up for the struggle. I don't have any suggestions, as I can't imagine eating so few calories and so much protein.
I know, I made that point upthread too. But he's saying he's currently consuming 3 protein shakes for 72 g of protein and considering a 4th for, presumably, 96 g of protein.
1600 cal or less (and I fear it's normally more like 1200) and 150 g of protein is challenging, but should not require 4 (or even 3) protein shakes for someone who clearly hates protein shakes.
I ate over 100 g routinely (often more like 120) on 1250 cal -- I am also 5'3, so way shorter than OP, and stopped doing that once I realized I should also be eating back exercise cals, and lost most of my weight on 1500 or more (again, with a goal weight of 120, NOT 190). But I still think that barring issues we haven't been told about there are other ways to get at least a significant part of that protein.
I am working on the protein in the food food now, I just got the egg whites and tuna, and some soya chunks from the ethnic grocery (170 calories for 26 grams of protein). This is new for me as I have just been eating less to lose the weight without too much regard for the macros, I haven't counted protein before. Up until now, my gym performance has also been fairly dramatically increasing week over week which is why I was concerned when it slowed down. I should be able to keep it at 3 with the foods suggestions made here, which was the initial purpose of the thread hahaha.
When you run out of new-lifter CNS adaptation plus a small amount of new-lifter mass gain potential while in a deficit, performance is likely to slow down if you stay in a big deficit. Protein is only going likely to take you so far - you're trying to add mass without fueling its creation. It's like trying to build a brick wall without bricks, thinking mortar will be enough.
That's pretty much what some of us are trying to tell you: Your really big calorie deficit is likely to be holding you back at some point, maybe even taking you backwards. Eating more now would be a better plan, and make it possible to minimize the protein powder in favor of food, as a bonus.
If weight loss (specifically, i.e., not just fat loss) is your absolutely paramount goal, and you're willing to risk potential negative effects on muscle mass and strength (which is a risk, not a guaranteed outcome), then go for it. Kimny has a point about sustainability and maintenance in the long term, though.
Best wishes, sincerely!4 -
Spadesheart wrote: »You really should not need that much protein powder. Are you vegetarian/vegan? What else do you eat in a normal day?
He's trying to get 150g of protein in 1200-1500 cals per day.
OP, the easy answer is to eat a reasonable amount of calories and not set yourself up for the struggle. I don't have any suggestions, as I can't imagine eating so few calories and so much protein.
I know, I made that point upthread too. But he's saying he's currently consuming 3 protein shakes for 72 g of protein and considering a 4th for, presumably, 96 g of protein.
1600 cal or less (and I fear it's normally more like 1200) and 150 g of protein is challenging, but should not require 4 (or even 3) protein shakes for someone who clearly hates protein shakes.
I ate over 100 g routinely (often more like 120) on 1250 cal -- I am also 5'3, so way shorter than OP, and stopped doing that once I realized I should also be eating back exercise cals, and lost most of my weight on 1500 or more (again, with a goal weight of 120, NOT 190). But I still think that barring issues we haven't been told about there are other ways to get at least a significant part of that protein.
I am working on the protein in the food food now, I just got the egg whites and tuna, and some soya chunks from the ethnic grocery (170 calories for 26 grams of protein). This is new for me as I have just been eating less to lose the weight without too much regard for the macros, I haven't counted protein before. Up until now, my gym performance has also been fairly dramatically increasing week over week which is why I was concerned when it slowed down. I should be able to keep it at 3 with the foods suggestions made here, which was the initial purpose of the thread hahaha.
When you run out of new-lifter CNS adaptation plus a small amount of new-lifter mass gain potential while in a deficit, performance is likely to slow down if you stay in a big deficit. Protein is only going likely to take you so far - you're trying to add mass without fueling its creation. It's like trying to build a brick wall without bricks, thinking mortar will be enough.
That's pretty much what some of us are trying to tell you: Your really big calorie deficit is likely to be holding you back at some point, maybe even taking you backwards. Eating more now would be a better plan, and make it possible to minimize the protein powder in favor of food, as a bonus.
If weight loss (specifically, i.e., not just fat loss) is your absolutely paramount goal, and you're willing to risk potential negative effects on muscle mass and strength (which is a risk, not a guaranteed outcome), then go for it. Kimny has a point about sustainability and maintenance in the long term, though.
Best wishes, sincerely!
So obviously I'm not doing this in an orthodox way, but this could unto itself be an interesting experiment and learning experience that I am currently uniquely conditioned for. I don't know anyone else my size that can handle as few calories as I can with as much exercise.
The dramatic protein increase began 3 days ago. I started 2 rest days after a day where I couldn't handle my weight training. I was clearly nearing a plateau before, but I am starting to have some slight strength gains again, with some more surprising ones today. I am under the impression that if I am at least staying as strong, or getting stronger, that my musculature is for sure not diminishing, you can correct me if I am incorrect. I have been working out since January.
Using strength as a metric of success along with the weight loss, I wonder how long I could potentially keep this up? I only really need to last 12 weeks at my current pace. Perhaps I can build a bit of wall out of mortar if I use proper rebar in the short term.
If my strength does plateau or dip, it for sure means that I have to go back to the dietary drawing board, and likely up my consumption by like a thousand calories. That way at least, nothing is lost, at least nothing that couldn't be gained with a multivitamin.
I suspect that I can probably squeeze another 4-6 weeks at least this way before something will have to give again. I hope longer.
1 -
Spadesheart wrote: »Spadesheart wrote: »You really should not need that much protein powder. Are you vegetarian/vegan? What else do you eat in a normal day?
He's trying to get 150g of protein in 1200-1500 cals per day.
OP, the easy answer is to eat a reasonable amount of calories and not set yourself up for the struggle. I don't have any suggestions, as I can't imagine eating so few calories and so much protein.
I know, I made that point upthread too. But he's saying he's currently consuming 3 protein shakes for 72 g of protein and considering a 4th for, presumably, 96 g of protein.
1600 cal or less (and I fear it's normally more like 1200) and 150 g of protein is challenging, but should not require 4 (or even 3) protein shakes for someone who clearly hates protein shakes.
I ate over 100 g routinely (often more like 120) on 1250 cal -- I am also 5'3, so way shorter than OP, and stopped doing that once I realized I should also be eating back exercise cals, and lost most of my weight on 1500 or more (again, with a goal weight of 120, NOT 190). But I still think that barring issues we haven't been told about there are other ways to get at least a significant part of that protein.
I am working on the protein in the food food now, I just got the egg whites and tuna, and some soya chunks from the ethnic grocery (170 calories for 26 grams of protein). This is new for me as I have just been eating less to lose the weight without too much regard for the macros, I haven't counted protein before. Up until now, my gym performance has also been fairly dramatically increasing week over week which is why I was concerned when it slowed down. I should be able to keep it at 3 with the foods suggestions made here, which was the initial purpose of the thread hahaha.
When you run out of new-lifter CNS adaptation plus a small amount of new-lifter mass gain potential while in a deficit, performance is likely to slow down if you stay in a big deficit. Protein is only going likely to take you so far - you're trying to add mass without fueling its creation. It's like trying to build a brick wall without bricks, thinking mortar will be enough.
That's pretty much what some of us are trying to tell you: Your really big calorie deficit is likely to be holding you back at some point, maybe even taking you backwards. Eating more now would be a better plan, and make it possible to minimize the protein powder in favor of food, as a bonus.
If weight loss (specifically, i.e., not just fat loss) is your absolutely paramount goal, and you're willing to risk potential negative effects on muscle mass and strength (which is a risk, not a guaranteed outcome), then go for it. Kimny has a point about sustainability and maintenance in the long term, though.
Best wishes, sincerely!
So obviously I'm not doing this in an orthodox way, but this could unto itself be an interesting experiment and learning experience that I am currently uniquely conditioned for. I don't know anyone else my size that can handle as few calories as I can with as much exercise.
The dramatic protein increase began 3 days ago. I started 2 rest days after a day where I couldn't handle my weight training. I was clearly nearing a plateau before, but I am starting to have some slight strength gains again, with some more surprising ones today. I am under the impression that if I am at least staying as strong, or getting stronger, that my musculature is for sure not diminishing, you can correct me if I am incorrect. I have been working out since January.
Using strength as a metric of success along with the weight loss, I wonder how long I could potentially keep this up? I only really need to last 12 weeks at my current pace. Perhaps I can build a bit of wall out of mortar if I use proper rebar in the short term.
If my strength does plateau or dip, it for sure means that I have to go back to the dietary drawing board, and likely up my consumption by like a thousand calories. That way at least, nothing is lost, at least nothing that couldn't be gained with a multivitamin.
I suspect that I can probably squeeze another 4-6 weeks at least this way before something will have to give again. I hope longer.
There have been plenty who have done it, but they return trying to figure out why their libido has tanked, their hair is falling out, and they are skinny fat. Hopefully this doesn't happen, but it is more common than you might realize. Malnourishment can take a while to show itself (and yes, people who are overweight/obese can be malnourished) and once it shows up it can take months to fix it. I hope you don't hit that wall, but just know that it's there.2 -
Spadesheart wrote: »Spadesheart wrote: »You really should not need that much protein powder. Are you vegetarian/vegan? What else do you eat in a normal day?
He's trying to get 150g of protein in 1200-1500 cals per day.
OP, the easy answer is to eat a reasonable amount of calories and not set yourself up for the struggle. I don't have any suggestions, as I can't imagine eating so few calories and so much protein.
I know, I made that point upthread too. But he's saying he's currently consuming 3 protein shakes for 72 g of protein and considering a 4th for, presumably, 96 g of protein.
1600 cal or less (and I fear it's normally more like 1200) and 150 g of protein is challenging, but should not require 4 (or even 3) protein shakes for someone who clearly hates protein shakes.
I ate over 100 g routinely (often more like 120) on 1250 cal -- I am also 5'3, so way shorter than OP, and stopped doing that once I realized I should also be eating back exercise cals, and lost most of my weight on 1500 or more (again, with a goal weight of 120, NOT 190). But I still think that barring issues we haven't been told about there are other ways to get at least a significant part of that protein.
I am working on the protein in the food food now, I just got the egg whites and tuna, and some soya chunks from the ethnic grocery (170 calories for 26 grams of protein). This is new for me as I have just been eating less to lose the weight without too much regard for the macros, I haven't counted protein before. Up until now, my gym performance has also been fairly dramatically increasing week over week which is why I was concerned when it slowed down. I should be able to keep it at 3 with the foods suggestions made here, which was the initial purpose of the thread hahaha.
When you run out of new-lifter CNS adaptation plus a small amount of new-lifter mass gain potential while in a deficit, performance is likely to slow down if you stay in a big deficit. Protein is only going likely to take you so far - you're trying to add mass without fueling its creation. It's like trying to build a brick wall without bricks, thinking mortar will be enough.
That's pretty much what some of us are trying to tell you: Your really big calorie deficit is likely to be holding you back at some point, maybe even taking you backwards. Eating more now would be a better plan, and make it possible to minimize the protein powder in favor of food, as a bonus.
If weight loss (specifically, i.e., not just fat loss) is your absolutely paramount goal, and you're willing to risk potential negative effects on muscle mass and strength (which is a risk, not a guaranteed outcome), then go for it. Kimny has a point about sustainability and maintenance in the long term, though.
Best wishes, sincerely!
So obviously I'm not doing this in an orthodox way, but this could unto itself be an interesting experiment and learning experience that I am currently uniquely conditioned for. I don't know anyone else my size that can handle as few calories as I can with as much exercise.
The dramatic protein increase began 3 days ago. I started 2 rest days after a day where I couldn't handle my weight training. I was clearly nearing a plateau before, but I am starting to have some slight strength gains again, with some more surprising ones today. I am under the impression that if I am at least staying as strong, or getting stronger, that my musculature is for sure not diminishing, you can correct me if I am incorrect. I have been working out since January.
Using strength as a metric of success along with the weight loss, I wonder how long I could potentially keep this up? I only really need to last 12 weeks at my current pace. Perhaps I can build a bit of wall out of mortar if I use proper rebar in the short term.
If my strength does plateau or dip, it for sure means that I have to go back to the dietary drawing board, and likely up my consumption by like a thousand calories. That way at least, nothing is lost, at least nothing that couldn't be gained with a multivitamin.
I suspect that I can probably squeeze another 4-6 weeks at least this way before something will have to give again. I hope longer.
Strength and muscle mass are for sure not 100% correlated. A lot of strength gain from early-on weight training is neuromuscular, i.e., from more effectively recruiting and utilizing pre-existing muscle tissue; it doesn't require mass gain. I don't know how that interplays with potential muscle loss from severe calorie deficit.
I haven't tried to research the question, because it's not of personal interest: I don't want to undereat to the point of health risk, whether that risk comes home to roost or not. It just isn't worth it to me.
I do know, from things I've noticed while reading casually, that it's normal to lose some amount of lean tissue (NB lean tissue includes other stuff in addition to muscle) alongside fat loss. Seems like the common estimates are 3 to 1 fat to lean, or maybe 4 to 1 . . . something in that range? IIRC? I don't know exactly how much that changes with exercise, though I've looked at studies that illustrated relatively lower proportions of lean tissue loss with exercise vs. without.
So, I wouldn't automatically assume that just because you're getting stronger, you're not losing pre-existing muscle tissue. Perhaps strength gain from neuromuscular adaptation can temporarily mask strength impact of lost muscle mass, I dunno.3 -
Spadesheart wrote: »Spadesheart wrote: »You really should not need that much protein powder. Are you vegetarian/vegan? What else do you eat in a normal day?
He's trying to get 150g of protein in 1200-1500 cals per day.
OP, the easy answer is to eat a reasonable amount of calories and not set yourself up for the struggle. I don't have any suggestions, as I can't imagine eating so few calories and so much protein.
I know, I made that point upthread too. But he's saying he's currently consuming 3 protein shakes for 72 g of protein and considering a 4th for, presumably, 96 g of protein.
1600 cal or less (and I fear it's normally more like 1200) and 150 g of protein is challenging, but should not require 4 (or even 3) protein shakes for someone who clearly hates protein shakes.
I ate over 100 g routinely (often more like 120) on 1250 cal -- I am also 5'3, so way shorter than OP, and stopped doing that once I realized I should also be eating back exercise cals, and lost most of my weight on 1500 or more (again, with a goal weight of 120, NOT 190). But I still think that barring issues we haven't been told about there are other ways to get at least a significant part of that protein.
I am working on the protein in the food food now, I just got the egg whites and tuna, and some soya chunks from the ethnic grocery (170 calories for 26 grams of protein). This is new for me as I have just been eating less to lose the weight without too much regard for the macros, I haven't counted protein before. Up until now, my gym performance has also been fairly dramatically increasing week over week which is why I was concerned when it slowed down. I should be able to keep it at 3 with the foods suggestions made here, which was the initial purpose of the thread hahaha.
When you run out of new-lifter CNS adaptation plus a small amount of new-lifter mass gain potential while in a deficit, performance is likely to slow down if you stay in a big deficit. Protein is only going likely to take you so far - you're trying to add mass without fueling its creation. It's like trying to build a brick wall without bricks, thinking mortar will be enough.
That's pretty much what some of us are trying to tell you: Your really big calorie deficit is likely to be holding you back at some point, maybe even taking you backwards. Eating more now would be a better plan, and make it possible to minimize the protein powder in favor of food, as a bonus.
If weight loss (specifically, i.e., not just fat loss) is your absolutely paramount goal, and you're willing to risk potential negative effects on muscle mass and strength (which is a risk, not a guaranteed outcome), then go for it. Kimny has a point about sustainability and maintenance in the long term, though.
Best wishes, sincerely!
So obviously I'm not doing this in an orthodox way, but this could unto itself be an interesting experiment and learning experience that I am currently uniquely conditioned for. I don't know anyone else my size that can handle as few calories as I can with as much exercise.
The dramatic protein increase began 3 days ago. I started 2 rest days after a day where I couldn't handle my weight training. I was clearly nearing a plateau before, but I am starting to have some slight strength gains again, with some more surprising ones today. I am under the impression that if I am at least staying as strong, or getting stronger, that my musculature is for sure not diminishing, you can correct me if I am incorrect. I have been working out since January.
Using strength as a metric of success along with the weight loss, I wonder how long I could potentially keep this up? I only really need to last 12 weeks at my current pace. Perhaps I can build a bit of wall out of mortar if I use proper rebar in the short term.
If my strength does plateau or dip, it for sure means that I have to go back to the dietary drawing board, and likely up my consumption by like a thousand calories. That way at least, nothing is lost, at least nothing that couldn't be gained with a multivitamin.
I suspect that I can probably squeeze another 4-6 weeks at least this way before something will have to give again. I hope longer.
Strength and muscle mass are for sure not 100% correlated. A lot of strength gain from early-on weight training is neuromuscular, i.e., from more effectively recruiting and utilizing pre-existing muscle tissue; it doesn't require mass gain. I don't know how that interplays with potential muscle loss from severe calorie deficit.
I haven't tried to research the question, because it's not of personal interest: I don't want to undereat to the point of health risk, whether that risk comes home to roost or not. It just isn't worth it to me.
I do know, from things I've noticed while reading casually, that it's normal to lose some amount of lean tissue (NB lean tissue includes other stuff in addition to muscle) alongside fat loss. Seems like the common estimates are 3 to 1 fat to lean, or maybe 4 to 1 . . . something in that range? IIRC? I don't know exactly how much that changes with exercise, though I've looked at studies that illustrated relatively lower proportions of lean tissue loss with exercise vs. without.
So, I wouldn't automatically assume that just because you're getting stronger, you're not losing pre-existing muscle tissue. Perhaps strength gain from neuromuscular adaptation can temporarily mask strength impact of lost muscle mass, I dunno.
This is very interesting. I wonder how long the bulk of neuromuscular adaptation rears itself with proper weight training for new lifters. Probably so individualized that they can't properly answer it, but interesting all the same.0
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