Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
What new or revised public policy/law would make it easier for people to maintain a healthy weight?
Options
Replies
-
Regardless of the government guidelines, folks are probably going to do what they're going to do. *shrug
5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The more the USA government has gotten involved on telling people how the eat the fatter people have become it seems to me.
...other way around...
People do not follow government guidelines very well but the for profit manufacturing side will even when guidelines are medically unproven.
The guidelines are basically eat more veg and fruit and switch from white to whole grains and consume added sugar and added fat in limited amounts.
The for-profit side puts out stuff that's popular. Tons of paleo and keto things these days and things marketed as "no sugar!", not any more nutritious in many cases than the old "low fat!" snacks (which no one legitimately thought were health food when they were cookies and such).People eat what is in front of them just like I did as a child eating from the garden and pasture field.
Hmm. What's "in front of me" is what I choose to cook or otherwise to put in front of me.There were no leftovers to have to put away after most meals.
We had leftovers eating mostly whole foods when I was a kid. I intentionally create meals where there will be leftovers now, as they are helpful for bringing lunch.We know today obesity is more a factor of what kind of calories we feed the body than how many calories we eat because the total calorie count has on average stayed the same.
No, we do not know this. The credible studies demonstrate that calories have increased a lot (including from fat!). There are NO credible studies that show that calories don't dictate weight loss, maintenance, or gain. All studies controlled for calories demonstrate that calories ARE the factor.
What you choose to eat, in a non controlled environment, probably determines how likely you are to overeat. If someone ate like the guidelines, they'd (on average) be less likely to overeat than if they ate some other ways that are common in the US currently. Indeed, you have frequently explained how you used to eat, and it was nothing like the guidelines.I still eat 2000-3000 calories daily staying away from processed foods containing added sugars and or any form of any grains.
You have frequently mentioned eating processed foods, not that there's anything wrong with that.
You don't track your calories, do you?
Many men eat 2000-3000 cal a day and maintain, as I believe you have said you are doing.I just got back from the huge annual insurance claims event PLRB and did not gain or loss a pound of weight unlike when eating my old WOE (Way of Eating) that I left Oct 2014 at the age of 63. In the past I always gained more than just water weight.
Rather obviously your current dietary restrictions -- which I agree seem to work for you -- made a lot of the foods you typically would have eaten off-limits. The same is true if one is doing W30 or 100% plant-based or logging and decides not to make an exception for the special event. None of that goes to the worth of the guidelines being discussed or to the effect of calories.
While cause and effects can be hard to define at least we can agree that since the event of government eating guidelines in the USA have been established that obesity, diabetes, cancer, etc have become worse.
The guidelines aren't being followed by most people, hence the results.
Or the guidelines are being followed by most people but the guidelines are based on flawed research.
Guidelines say to eat fruits and veggies.
Fact, only 1 in 10 American adults gets enough fruits and veggies:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p1116-fruit-vegetable-consumption.html
Guidelines give specific recommendations on exercise
Fact, less than 25% of Americans get the recommended amount of exercise:
http://fortune.com/2018/06/28/americans-do-not-exercise-enough-cdc/
Fact, the guidelines are not being followed by most people.11 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The more the USA government has gotten involved on telling people how the eat the fatter people have become it seems to me.
...other way around...
People do not follow government guidelines very well but the for profit manufacturing side will even when guidelines are medically unproven.
The guidelines are basically eat more veg and fruit and switch from white to whole grains and consume added sugar and added fat in limited amounts.
The for-profit side puts out stuff that's popular. Tons of paleo and keto things these days and things marketed as "no sugar!", not any more nutritious in many cases than the old "low fat!" snacks (which no one legitimately thought were health food when they were cookies and such).People eat what is in front of them just like I did as a child eating from the garden and pasture field.
Hmm. What's "in front of me" is what I choose to cook or otherwise to put in front of me.There were no leftovers to have to put away after most meals.
We had leftovers eating mostly whole foods when I was a kid. I intentionally create meals where there will be leftovers now, as they are helpful for bringing lunch.We know today obesity is more a factor of what kind of calories we feed the body than how many calories we eat because the total calorie count has on average stayed the same.
No, we do not know this. The credible studies demonstrate that calories have increased a lot (including from fat!). There are NO credible studies that show that calories don't dictate weight loss, maintenance, or gain. All studies controlled for calories demonstrate that calories ARE the factor.
What you choose to eat, in a non controlled environment, probably determines how likely you are to overeat. If someone ate like the guidelines, they'd (on average) be less likely to overeat than if they ate some other ways that are common in the US currently. Indeed, you have frequently explained how you used to eat, and it was nothing like the guidelines.I still eat 2000-3000 calories daily staying away from processed foods containing added sugars and or any form of any grains.
You have frequently mentioned eating processed foods, not that there's anything wrong with that.
You don't track your calories, do you?
Many men eat 2000-3000 cal a day and maintain, as I believe you have said you are doing.I just got back from the huge annual insurance claims event PLRB and did not gain or loss a pound of weight unlike when eating my old WOE (Way of Eating) that I left Oct 2014 at the age of 63. In the past I always gained more than just water weight.
Rather obviously your current dietary restrictions -- which I agree seem to work for you -- made a lot of the foods you typically would have eaten off-limits. The same is true if one is doing W30 or 100% plant-based or logging and decides not to make an exception for the special event. None of that goes to the worth of the guidelines being discussed or to the effect of calories.
While cause and effects can be hard to define at least we can agree that since the event of government eating guidelines in the USA have been established that obesity, diabetes, cancer, etc have become worse.
The guidelines aren't being followed by most people, hence the results.
Or the guidelines are being followed by most people but the guidelines are based on flawed research.
Guidelines say to eat fruits and veggies.
Fact, only 1 in 10 American adults gets enough fruits and veggies:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p1116-fruit-vegetable-consumption.html
Guidelines give specific recommendations on exercise
Fact, less than 25% of Americans get the recommended amount of exercise:
http://fortune.com/2018/06/28/americans-do-not-exercise-enough-cdc/
Fact, the guidelines are not being followed by most people.
Will you link to some double blind placebo controlled studies that indicates the guidelines are valid in a medical sense?11 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The more the USA government has gotten involved on telling people how the eat the fatter people have become it seems to me.
...other way around...
People do not follow government guidelines very well but the for profit manufacturing side will even when guidelines are medically unproven.
The guidelines are basically eat more veg and fruit and switch from white to whole grains and consume added sugar and added fat in limited amounts.
The for-profit side puts out stuff that's popular. Tons of paleo and keto things these days and things marketed as "no sugar!", not any more nutritious in many cases than the old "low fat!" snacks (which no one legitimately thought were health food when they were cookies and such).People eat what is in front of them just like I did as a child eating from the garden and pasture field.
Hmm. What's "in front of me" is what I choose to cook or otherwise to put in front of me.There were no leftovers to have to put away after most meals.
We had leftovers eating mostly whole foods when I was a kid. I intentionally create meals where there will be leftovers now, as they are helpful for bringing lunch.We know today obesity is more a factor of what kind of calories we feed the body than how many calories we eat because the total calorie count has on average stayed the same.
No, we do not know this. The credible studies demonstrate that calories have increased a lot (including from fat!). There are NO credible studies that show that calories don't dictate weight loss, maintenance, or gain. All studies controlled for calories demonstrate that calories ARE the factor.
What you choose to eat, in a non controlled environment, probably determines how likely you are to overeat. If someone ate like the guidelines, they'd (on average) be less likely to overeat than if they ate some other ways that are common in the US currently. Indeed, you have frequently explained how you used to eat, and it was nothing like the guidelines.I still eat 2000-3000 calories daily staying away from processed foods containing added sugars and or any form of any grains.
You have frequently mentioned eating processed foods, not that there's anything wrong with that.
You don't track your calories, do you?
Many men eat 2000-3000 cal a day and maintain, as I believe you have said you are doing.I just got back from the huge annual insurance claims event PLRB and did not gain or loss a pound of weight unlike when eating my old WOE (Way of Eating) that I left Oct 2014 at the age of 63. In the past I always gained more than just water weight.
Rather obviously your current dietary restrictions -- which I agree seem to work for you -- made a lot of the foods you typically would have eaten off-limits. The same is true if one is doing W30 or 100% plant-based or logging and decides not to make an exception for the special event. None of that goes to the worth of the guidelines being discussed or to the effect of calories.
While cause and effects can be hard to define at least we can agree that since the event of government eating guidelines in the USA have been established that obesity, diabetes, cancer, etc have become worse.
The guidelines aren't being followed by most people, hence the results.
Or the guidelines are being followed by most people but the guidelines are based on flawed research.
Guidelines say to eat fruits and veggies.
Fact, only 1 in 10 American adults gets enough fruits and veggies:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p1116-fruit-vegetable-consumption.html
Guidelines give specific recommendations on exercise
Fact, less than 25% of Americans get the recommended amount of exercise:
http://fortune.com/2018/06/28/americans-do-not-exercise-enough-cdc/
Fact, the guidelines are not being followed by most people.
Will you link to some double blind placebo controlled studies that indicates the guidelines are valid in a medical sense?
You can do your own searching if you don't trust the recommendations of some of the top researchers in nutrition in the world. If you are familiar with double blind studies you would know there would be no double blind study on the impact of the guidelines, they incorporate too broad of an area. Start searching for studies on the specific elements of the guidelines, I've posted a few random ones to get you started.
Please note the recommendations of World Health Organization are very similar if you don't trust anything from the US government.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4384716/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5501769/
https://www.mdlinx.com/cardiology/article/1598
https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn201439
https://medium.com/thrive-global/four-powerful-new-nutrition-studies-to-guide-care-a-student-for-life-f408112c1468
https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/ypxxay/why-eating-spinach-can-make-you-crave-pizza-less
https://chemoprotectioncenter.org/non-ccc-clinical-studies/
If you want to look up double blind studies you may want to look for studies that show any of the recommendations of the CDC are wrong regarding the Dietary Guidelines for Americans.
Knock yourself out.10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The more the USA government has gotten involved on telling people how the eat the fatter people have become it seems to me.
...other way around...
People do not follow government guidelines very well but the for profit manufacturing side will even when guidelines are medically unproven.
The guidelines are basically eat more veg and fruit and switch from white to whole grains and consume added sugar and added fat in limited amounts.
The for-profit side puts out stuff that's popular. Tons of paleo and keto things these days and things marketed as "no sugar!", not any more nutritious in many cases than the old "low fat!" snacks (which no one legitimately thought were health food when they were cookies and such).People eat what is in front of them just like I did as a child eating from the garden and pasture field.
Hmm. What's "in front of me" is what I choose to cook or otherwise to put in front of me.There were no leftovers to have to put away after most meals.
We had leftovers eating mostly whole foods when I was a kid. I intentionally create meals where there will be leftovers now, as they are helpful for bringing lunch.We know today obesity is more a factor of what kind of calories we feed the body than how many calories we eat because the total calorie count has on average stayed the same.
No, we do not know this. The credible studies demonstrate that calories have increased a lot (including from fat!). There are NO credible studies that show that calories don't dictate weight loss, maintenance, or gain. All studies controlled for calories demonstrate that calories ARE the factor.
What you choose to eat, in a non controlled environment, probably determines how likely you are to overeat. If someone ate like the guidelines, they'd (on average) be less likely to overeat than if they ate some other ways that are common in the US currently. Indeed, you have frequently explained how you used to eat, and it was nothing like the guidelines.I still eat 2000-3000 calories daily staying away from processed foods containing added sugars and or any form of any grains.
You have frequently mentioned eating processed foods, not that there's anything wrong with that.
You don't track your calories, do you?
Many men eat 2000-3000 cal a day and maintain, as I believe you have said you are doing.I just got back from the huge annual insurance claims event PLRB and did not gain or loss a pound of weight unlike when eating my old WOE (Way of Eating) that I left Oct 2014 at the age of 63. In the past I always gained more than just water weight.
Rather obviously your current dietary restrictions -- which I agree seem to work for you -- made a lot of the foods you typically would have eaten off-limits. The same is true if one is doing W30 or 100% plant-based or logging and decides not to make an exception for the special event. None of that goes to the worth of the guidelines being discussed or to the effect of calories.
While cause and effects can be hard to define at least we can agree that since the event of government eating guidelines in the USA have been established that obesity, diabetes, cancer, etc have become worse.
The guidelines aren't being followed by most people, hence the results.
Or the guidelines are being followed by most people but the guidelines are based on flawed research.
Guidelines say to eat fruits and veggies.
Fact, only 1 in 10 American adults gets enough fruits and veggies:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p1116-fruit-vegetable-consumption.html
Guidelines give specific recommendations on exercise
Fact, less than 25% of Americans get the recommended amount of exercise:
http://fortune.com/2018/06/28/americans-do-not-exercise-enough-cdc/
Fact, the guidelines are not being followed by most people.
Will you link to some double blind placebo controlled studies that indicates the guidelines are valid in a medical sense?
Do you actually believe that one could have a placebo controlled dietary intervention? Do some of the participants eat fake fruit?
Or are you just spewing out terms that you don't understand?16 -
I just imagined an actual sugar pill, like a pill made of compressed refined sugar and someone saying "I've got to take my medicine" Off-topic, sorry.1
-
If you want the government to show you how to eat, how about bringing Home Economics back to public school.2
-
If you want the government to show you how to eat, how about bringing Home Economics back to public school.
I loved middle school Home Ec! The memories and practical knowledge. Field trip to the grocery store, learned to wash dishes properly to save water and make breadsticks from scratch. Yeah, now days kids aren't allowed to use knives.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The more the USA government has gotten involved on telling people how the eat the fatter people have become it seems to me.
...other way around...
People do not follow government guidelines very well but the for profit manufacturing side will even when guidelines are medically unproven. People eat what is in front of them just like I did as a child eating from the garden and pasture field. There were no leftovers to have to put away after most meals.
We know today obesity is more a factor of what kind of calories we feed the body than how many calories we eat because the total calorie count has on average stayed the same. I still eat 2000-3000 calories daily staying away from processed foods containing added sugars and or any form of any grains.
I just got back from the huge annual insurance claims event PLRB and did not gain or loss a pound of weight unlike when eating my old WOE (Way of Eating) that I left Oct 2014 at the age of 63. In the past I always gained more than just water weight.
I would be exceptionally surprised if any part of the bolded sentence were true.
I expect you would be surprised just as I was when I learned the bolded sentence was true in my case.8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The more the USA government has gotten involved on telling people how the eat the fatter people have become it seems to me.
...other way around...
People do not follow government guidelines very well but the for profit manufacturing side will even when guidelines are medically unproven. People eat what is in front of them just like I did as a child eating from the garden and pasture field. There were no leftovers to have to put away after most meals.
We know today obesity is more a factor of what kind of calories we feed the body than how many calories we eat because the total calorie count has on average stayed the same. I still eat 2000-3000 calories daily staying away from processed foods containing added sugars and or any form of any grains.
I just got back from the huge annual insurance claims event PLRB and did not gain or loss a pound of weight unlike when eating my old WOE (Way of Eating) that I left Oct 2014 at the age of 63. In the past I always gained more than just water weight.
I would be exceptionally surprised if any part of the bolded sentence were true.
I expect you would be surprised just as I was when I learned the bolded sentence was true in my case.
Are you claiming that the laws of thermodynamics are, in fact, variable?
7 -
While I agree that people are not eating healthy and weight is an issue now, more than ever before, I don't want the Government telling me what I can and cannot eat.
5 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »While I agree that people are not eating healthy and weight is an issue now, more than ever before, I don't want the Government telling me what I can and cannot eat.
Has anyone suggested that it should?
I’m OK with governments offering advice, though.4 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »While I agree that people are not eating healthy and weight is an issue now, more than ever before, I don't want the Government telling me what I can and cannot eat.
Has anyone suggested that it should?
I’m OK with governments offering advice, though.
The food industry recommend the eating guidelines.and the USA federal government put them in place officially.7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »TheRoadDog wrote: »While I agree that people are not eating healthy and weight is an issue now, more than ever before, I don't want the Government telling me what I can and cannot eat.
Has anyone suggested that it should?
I’m OK with governments offering advice, though.
The food industry recommend the eating guidelines.and the USA federal government put them in place officially.
A recommendation isn't the same thing as the government telling you what you can and cannot eat.
5 -
Moderation, self accountability, common sense, portion control need to take a front seat here. It is nice to have calories on menus etc. But really....if most people want something they are not going to care or do something stupid like not eat tomorrow.
I think we have enough laws and policies....do you really want the government to control everything? I don't. There are some things we need to control ourselves.5 -
garystrickland357 wrote: »I think we have enough laws for the most part. As far as policy goes, I'd like to see communities develop infrastructure that promotes a healthy lifestyle. I live in a small rural community in Texas. The county road systems are wonderful for cycling and we have limited traffic - that's the good part. The flip side is our towns and cities are designed for cars - not people. I deal with loose (biting) dogs all the time because city ordinances aren't enforced. City streets have a lot of junk near the curb. We don't have bike lanes. You get the idea. Many folks just won't take a walk or ride their bike because they don't feel safe. We also need kinder neighborhoods where children (actually their parents) feel it's safe to be outside and play or ride a bike.
Edit: I know all of this is expensive. But what's the cost of obesity to our communities and our countries?
Our area is very rural also. The roads are not conducive to riding, walking or running. However we have a system of trails where railroads are not being used any longer. The paths are already there, so it did not cost the local government as much to utilize them. They are well used and appreciated.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »TheRoadDog wrote: »While I agree that people are not eating healthy and weight is an issue now, more than ever before, I don't want the Government telling me what I can and cannot eat.
Has anyone suggested that it should?
I’m OK with governments offering advice, though.
The food industry recommend the eating guidelines.and the USA federal government put them in place officially.
And do they require you to follow them? Of course not, nor should they, nor has anyone suggested otherwise.2 -
I've read the whole 12 pages.
What could the government do to make it easier for people to maintain a healthy weight?
I'm going to go back to foundation principles: Fund and focus on adequate science and math education. Also reading comprehension, including reading for nuance and bias.
(Those aren't the only things it's good to include in public education, of course, but they're the ones most material to weight management, IMO.)
One can't guaranteed mastery, obviously. And there would still be disagreement around things like weight of scientific evidence. But if we can imagine a fairytale world where there was that mastery, many of threads in the MFP forums would never have been needed**, and a fair fraction more would be much shorter. And everyone would know that (with the except of a small minority, for example with certain medical issues) obesity is about behavior . . . and behavioral choices.
** Think of things like the multi-thread series from one person about "If 1/3 of the pizza is 350 calories and I eat 2 of 8 slices, how many calories is that?" "If 1/3 of the pizza is 350 calories, and I eat half of it, how many calories is that?" as an extreme example. There are milder ones, but I'm trying to clarify that even in my imaginary world, we'd still be posting about carbs, autophagy, cravings, ecology of food production, good recipes, psychological aspects, what order to do strength vs. cardio and why, etc.)9 -
If you want the government to show you how to eat, how about bringing Home Economics back to public school.
I loved middle school Home Ec! The memories and practical knowledge. Field trip to the grocery store, learned to wash dishes properly to save water and make breadsticks from scratch. Yeah, now days kids aren't allowed to use knives.
I enjoyed middle school (well, "junior high" in my day and place) home ec for a while, but the memories were pretty much spoiled when the bullies decided to remove the needles from the sewing machine and run around stabbing people with them, and the teacher did zilch about it.
So maybe not letting them have knives these days isn't such a bad thing.2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »If you want the government to show you how to eat, how about bringing Home Economics back to public school.
I loved middle school Home Ec! The memories and practical knowledge. Field trip to the grocery store, learned to wash dishes properly to save water and make breadsticks from scratch. Yeah, now days kids aren't allowed to use knives.
I enjoyed middle school (well, "junior high" in my day and place) home ec for a while, but the memories were pretty much spoiled when the bullies decided to remove the needles from the sewing machine and run around stabbing people with them, and the teacher did zilch about it.
So maybe not letting them have knives these days isn't such a bad thing.
I remember the times when students got a good spanking for that kind of behaviour. And then a second one as soon as they got off the school bus, because the bad deed had already been reported to the parents. I wonder how we all survived as kids... But I guess, we learned a lesson..2
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 390 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 921 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions