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What new or revised public policy/law would make it easier for people to maintain a healthy weight?

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Replies

  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,493 Member
    FireOpalCO wrote: »

    In my locale, fares pay about 20% of the costs to run the system. The other 80% is paid by taxpayers. I don't think 80% of them use the buses and light rail.

    But they do benefit from the reduced traffic congestion from other people using lightrail and buses. Plus the draw to potential employers considering setting up shop in that city/state.

    In my community fares pay 10% of the cost of operating the bus system. The 60 passenger buses with 3 riders take up more space then if each passenger drove their own car.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,089 Member

    You use the road when you're on your bike, and taxes on motor fuels support the building and maintenance of roads. Why should other people have to pay higher gas taxes to pay for your use of the roads?

    Are we sure motor fuel taxes cover the costs of the roads?

    Do other taxes also go into the fund?

    Don't I pay the motor fuel taxes of the trucks that deliver food and bicycles to the stores where I shop?

    It is highly unlikely a cyclist doesn't pay taxes and hasn't paid the motor fuels taxes passed on in the costs of shipping goods and services to his home or the stores where he shops.

    Yes, but everybody pays those. It doesn't make up for the taxes you don't pay to say you pay these other taxes that everyone else pays.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    What taxes does the cyclist not pay? I'm sorry, I've apparently lost track of the discussion.
  • autumnblade75
    autumnblade75 Posts: 1,661 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    What taxes does the cyclist not pay? I'm sorry, I've apparently lost track of the discussion.

    I thought it was obvious that he didn't also own a car. [/sarcasm]
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,493 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    What taxes does the cyclist not pay? I'm sorry, I've apparently lost track of the discussion.

    The discussion started when someone suggested a tax credit for bike commuting. It was then pointed out that motor fuel taxes (user fees) pay the majority of the cost of roads

    Should a cyclist at this point pay a use tax since the are contributing via other taxes IMO probably not. Should there be a tax credit that would be impossible to administer IMO definitely not.

  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    What taxes does the cyclist not pay? I'm sorry, I've apparently lost track of the discussion.

    I thought it was obvious that he didn't also own a car. [/sarcasm]

    Never mind that @NorthCascades has a car...the most Northwest of cars, a Subaru :D
  • Lenpayasa
    Lenpayasa Posts: 69 Member
    Farmers markets in the hood where people could use their food vouchers instead of those "you buy, we fry" places. These unhealthy places are classified as "Convenience stores" by government and so they accept food subsidy cards (foodstamps). People then pay $1 to have the food fried for them on site, so it's really a fast-food restaurant.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,493 Member
    Lenpayasa wrote: »
    Farmers markets in the hood where people could use their food vouchers instead of those "you buy, we fry" places. These unhealthy places are classified as "Convenience stores" by government and so they accept food subsidy cards (foodstamps). People then pay $1 to have the food fried for them on site, so it's really a fast-food restaurant.

    How are you going to get producers to go to the hood when in most cases it is further from their farm than other parts of an urban area where they could sell their products. Plus a higher level (real or percieved) of danger.
  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Lenpayasa wrote: »
    Farmers markets in the hood where people could use their food vouchers instead of those "you buy, we fry" places. These unhealthy places are classified as "Convenience stores" by government and so they accept food subsidy cards (foodstamps). People then pay $1 to have the food fried for them on site, so it's really a fast-food restaurant.

    How are you going to get producers to go to the hood when in most cases it is further from their farm than other parts of an urban area where they could sell their products. Plus a higher level (real or percieved) of danger.

    Well perceived danger is just that, perceived. In terms of getting producers out to areas that are low income, that difficulty is going to be very much based on location. There are multiple thriving farmers markets in parts of the Portland metro area that are lower income. If anything it's actually significantly easier for farmers/producers to get to these places because there's less traffic than downtown and the parking is significantly better than in most of the middle to upper class areas.

    There are a number of farmers markets in Oregon that take SNAP benefits (EBT falls into this). The ones that do match it, typically up to $5 or $10.
  • tbright1965
    tbright1965 Posts: 852 Member
    What is the benefit of mostly empty buses and trains?

    If employers are benefiting, send them the bill.

    I just find it laughable that people complain about the 50-100 miles I might ride my bike over the course of a week, all 240# of me and my bike, suggesting that the 50k miles per year the four 1.5-2 ton vehicles in my household drive, burning motor fuels doesn't pay enough for the riding I do during the summer.

    Not to mention the various taxes for tags, maintenance and repair items, as well as the taxes paid when the vehicles were purchased, and so on.

    And as I said, even a cyclist that doesn't own a car will pay motor fuel taxes that are rolled into the prices of the goods and services he buys.
    FireOpalCO wrote: »

    In my locale, fares pay about 20% of the costs to run the system. The other 80% is paid by taxpayers. I don't think 80% of them use the buses and light rail.

    But they do benefit from the reduced traffic congestion from other people using lightrail and buses. Plus the draw to potential employers considering setting up shop in that city/state.

  • tbright1965
    tbright1965 Posts: 852 Member

    You use the road when you're on your bike, and taxes on motor fuels support the building and maintenance of roads. Why should other people have to pay higher gas taxes to pay for your use of the roads?

    Are we sure motor fuel taxes cover the costs of the roads?

    Do other taxes also go into the fund?

    Don't I pay the motor fuel taxes of the trucks that deliver food and bicycles to the stores where I shop?

    It is highly unlikely a cyclist doesn't pay taxes and hasn't paid the motor fuels taxes passed on in the costs of shipping goods and services to his home or the stores where he shops.

    Yes, but everybody pays those. It doesn't make up for the taxes you don't pay to say you pay these other taxes that everyone else pays.

    And you prove my point, the cyclist HAS paid those taxes, just like everybody else, and has the same rights to the road as a taxpayer as anybody else.

    There is no special privilege afforded to the driver because he pays the taxes directly over the cyclist who paid them indirectly through the costs rolled into the goods and services purchased.

    So, unlike what was said before, you are now saying the cyclist, like everyone else, pays motor fuel taxes.

    Ergo, the cyclist has the same right to the road as anyone else.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,089 Member
    edited March 2019

    You use the road when you're on your bike, and taxes on motor fuels support the building and maintenance of roads. Why should other people have to pay higher gas taxes to pay for your use of the roads?

    Are we sure motor fuel taxes cover the costs of the roads?

    Do other taxes also go into the fund?

    Don't I pay the motor fuel taxes of the trucks that deliver food and bicycles to the stores where I shop?

    It is highly unlikely a cyclist doesn't pay taxes and hasn't paid the motor fuels taxes passed on in the costs of shipping goods and services to his home or the stores where he shops.

    Yes, but everybody pays those. It doesn't make up for the taxes you don't pay to say you pay these other taxes that everyone else pays.

    And you prove my point, the cyclist HAS paid those taxes, just like everybody else, and has the same rights to the road as a taxpayer as anybody else.

    There is no special privilege afforded to the driver because he pays the taxes directly over the cyclist who paid them indirectly through the costs rolled into the goods and services purchased.

    So, unlike what was said before, you are now saying the cyclist, like everyone else, pays motor fuel taxes.

    Ergo, the cyclist has the same right to the road as anyone else.

    not proportionate to the benefit received.

    ETA: your argument would be like me arguing that if I pay a toll on one road, I should get to drive on all the other roads for free.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited March 2019
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Lenpayasa wrote: »
    Farmers markets in the hood where people could use their food vouchers instead of those "you buy, we fry" places. These unhealthy places are classified as "Convenience stores" by government and so they accept food subsidy cards (foodstamps). People then pay $1 to have the food fried for them on site, so it's really a fast-food restaurant.

    How are you going to get producers to go to the hood when in most cases it is further from their farm than other parts of an urban area where they could sell their products. Plus a higher level (real or percieved) of danger.

    There are already farmers markets in the hood in Chicago, it's not farther from farms than other parts of the city, and they take SNAP (and there's additional benefits if you use SNAP in farmers markets).

    List for all IL: https://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=44172
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member

    You use the road when you're on your bike, and taxes on motor fuels support the building and maintenance of roads. Why should other people have to pay higher gas taxes to pay for your use of the roads?

    Are we sure motor fuel taxes cover the costs of the roads?

    Do other taxes also go into the fund?

    Don't I pay the motor fuel taxes of the trucks that deliver food and bicycles to the stores where I shop?

    It is highly unlikely a cyclist doesn't pay taxes and hasn't paid the motor fuels taxes passed on in the costs of shipping goods and services to his home or the stores where he shops.

    Yes, but everybody pays those. It doesn't make up for the taxes you don't pay to say you pay these other taxes that everyone else pays.

    Are you saying that I don't pay tax, or that everybody pays tax? This is confusing.
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member

    You use the road when you're on your bike, and taxes on motor fuels support the building and maintenance of roads. Why should other people have to pay higher gas taxes to pay for your use of the roads?

    Are we sure motor fuel taxes cover the costs of the roads?

    Do other taxes also go into the fund?

    Don't I pay the motor fuel taxes of the trucks that deliver food and bicycles to the stores where I shop?

    It is highly unlikely a cyclist doesn't pay taxes and hasn't paid the motor fuels taxes passed on in the costs of shipping goods and services to his home or the stores where he shops.

    Yes, but everybody pays those. It doesn't make up for the taxes you don't pay to say you pay these other taxes that everyone else pays.

    And you prove my point, the cyclist HAS paid those taxes, just like everybody else, and has the same rights to the road as a taxpayer as anybody else.

    There is no special privilege afforded to the driver because he pays the taxes directly over the cyclist who paid them indirectly through the costs rolled into the goods and services purchased.

    So, unlike what was said before, you are now saying the cyclist, like everyone else, pays motor fuel taxes.

    Ergo, the cyclist has the same right to the road as anyone else.

    not proportionate to the benefit received.

    ETA: your argument would be like me arguing that if I pay a toll on one road, I should get to drive on all the other roads for free.

    Your argument is like saying if you haven't paid taxes the police and fire fighters shouldn't help you.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,493 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Lenpayasa wrote: »
    Farmers markets in the hood where people could use their food vouchers instead of those "you buy, we fry" places. These unhealthy places are classified as "Convenience stores" by government and so they accept food subsidy cards (foodstamps). People then pay $1 to have the food fried for them on site, so it's really a fast-food restaurant.

    How are you going to get producers to go to the hood when in most cases it is further from their farm than other parts of an urban area where they could sell their products. Plus a higher level (real or percieved) of danger.

    There are already farmers markets in the hood in Chicago, it's not farther from farms than other parts of the city, and they take SNAP (and there's additional benefits if you use SNAP in farmers markets).

    List for all IL: https://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=44172

    I've approached Chicago from all directions that are drivable. I guarantee there are more affluent and safer parts of the metropolitan area that are closer to farms than the hood.

    It's great farmers are willing to serve that population though.
  • FireOpalCO
    FireOpalCO Posts: 641 Member
    What is the benefit of mostly empty buses and trains?

    If employers are benefiting, send them the bill.

    I just find it laughable that people complain about the 50-100 miles I might ride my bike over the course of a week, all 240# of me and my bike, suggesting that the 50k miles per year the four 1.5-2 ton vehicles in my household drive, burning motor fuels doesn't pay enough for the riding I do during the summer.

    Not to mention the various taxes for tags, maintenance and repair items, as well as the taxes paid when the vehicles were purchased, and so on.

    And as I said, even a cyclist that doesn't own a car will pay motor fuel taxes that are rolled into the prices of the goods and services he buys.
    FireOpalCO wrote: »

    In my locale, fares pay about 20% of the costs to run the system. The other 80% is paid by taxpayers. I don't think 80% of them use the buses and light rail.

    But they do benefit from the reduced traffic congestion from other people using lightrail and buses. Plus the draw to potential employers considering setting up shop in that city/state.

    Where do you live that trains and buses are mostly empty? During rush hour I drive past the park-n-ride and there are lines of people waiting to get on the bus (when I road it for work I had to stand and sometimes wait for the next one). I see the light rail and it’s also full. The only time I’ve ridden light rail and it was empty was on the weekend.

    Our problem here is our light rail doesn’t cover enough territory and there are entire commuter areas that don’t get service. I wish I could take a train to work.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited March 2019
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Lenpayasa wrote: »
    Farmers markets in the hood where people could use their food vouchers instead of those "you buy, we fry" places. These unhealthy places are classified as "Convenience stores" by government and so they accept food subsidy cards (foodstamps). People then pay $1 to have the food fried for them on site, so it's really a fast-food restaurant.

    How are you going to get producers to go to the hood when in most cases it is further from their farm than other parts of an urban area where they could sell their products. Plus a higher level (real or percieved) of danger.

    There are already farmers markets in the hood in Chicago, it's not farther from farms than other parts of the city, and they take SNAP (and there's additional benefits if you use SNAP in farmers markets).

    List for all IL: https://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=44172

    I've approached Chicago from all directions that are drivable. I guarantee there are more affluent and safer parts of the metropolitan area that are closer to farms than the hood.

    It's great farmers are willing to serve that population though.

    One of the worst areas of Chicago is the far west side. Some of the bad areas on the south side are much closer to Indiana than where I live (on the north side). You can get to farms from Chicago in multiple directions (every side but the lake), so it's not like any one area is particularly closer than anywhere else.

    It's pretty common for green markets in the city to have farms from IN, southwestern MI, WI, and other parts of IL.

    There are urban farming programs on the southside too: http://growinghomeinc.org/our-farms/

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-chicago-urban-farming-year-ahead-1222-biz-20161220-story.html