recomp stat advice
angermouse
Posts: 102 Member
hi, ive been trying to google info on recomping but getting conflicting advice. one says to go surplus on workout days the other to maintain workout days and deficit on days off? SO ive come here. again. 
if I give my stats can we workout a plan as im doing my own head in with it all.
(note: I have anxiety and slow info intake so apologise if I repeat or don't fully get it) x
im 36yrs 5'5 53.5kg I go gym 3 days a week doing weights, just changed from split leg/upper days to full body. (I think)
I got myself all in a mess trying to work out my tdee plus activity so im coming here blank to try and get help with what is recommended for my stats?
on the fancy machine at the gym, not sure how accurate these things are, says im 24% body fat and 43% muscle if that helps?
if I give my stats can we workout a plan as im doing my own head in with it all.
(note: I have anxiety and slow info intake so apologise if I repeat or don't fully get it) x
im 36yrs 5'5 53.5kg I go gym 3 days a week doing weights, just changed from split leg/upper days to full body. (I think)
I got myself all in a mess trying to work out my tdee plus activity so im coming here blank to try and get help with what is recommended for my stats?
on the fancy machine at the gym, not sure how accurate these things are, says im 24% body fat and 43% muscle if that helps?
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Replies
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angermouse wrote: »hi, ive been trying to google info on recomping but getting conflicting advice. one says to go surplus on workout days the other to maintain workout days and deficit on days off? SO ive come here. again.
Whichever way suits you best - it's unlikely to make the slightest bit of measurable difference.
It's based on gym mythology and complete misunderstanding of anabolic and catabolic states - sometimes verbalised as the incorrect statements "you can't gain muscle in a deficit" and/or "you need to be in a surplus to gain muscle". Both statements are twaddle.
Remember that fitness bloggers are always needing to make simple things complicated.
Eating at or around maintenance and training effectively is everything you need, the rest is just window dressing.
What do you mean TDEE plus activity? TDEE includes everything (BMR, activity and exercise) - Total Daily Energy Expenditure.
Just decide how you want to account for your exercise, the way MyFitnessPal does it or go to a TDEE calculator - both work unless you do endurance cardio needing fuelling on the day.4 -
angermouse wrote: »hi, ive been trying to google info on recomping but getting conflicting advice. one says to go surplus on workout days the other to maintain workout days and deficit on days off? SO ive come here. again.
Whichever way suits you best - it's unlikely to make the slightest bit of measurable difference.
It's based on gym mythology and complete misunderstanding of anabolic and catabolic states - sometimes verbalised as the incorrect statements "you can't gain muscle in a deficit" and/or "you need to be in a surplus to gain muscle". Both statements are twaddle.
Remember that fitness bloggers are always needing to make simple things complicated.
Eating at or around maintenance and training effectively is everything you need, the rest is just window dressing.
What do you mean TDEE plus activity? TDEE includes everything (BMR, activity and exercise) - Total Daily Energy Expenditure.
Just decide how you want to account for your exercise, the way MyFitnessPal does it or go to a TDEE calculator - both work unless you do endurance cardio needing fuelling on the day.
sorry I mean to make my TDEE total, im unsure which is the right activity percentage to add.0 -
angermouse wrote: »angermouse wrote: »hi, ive been trying to google info on recomping but getting conflicting advice. one says to go surplus on workout days the other to maintain workout days and deficit on days off? SO ive come here. again.
Whichever way suits you best - it's unlikely to make the slightest bit of measurable difference.
It's based on gym mythology and complete misunderstanding of anabolic and catabolic states - sometimes verbalised as the incorrect statements "you can't gain muscle in a deficit" and/or "you need to be in a surplus to gain muscle". Both statements are twaddle.
Remember that fitness bloggers are always needing to make simple things complicated.
Eating at or around maintenance and training effectively is everything you need, the rest is just window dressing.
What do you mean TDEE plus activity? TDEE includes everything (BMR, activity and exercise) - Total Daily Energy Expenditure.
Just decide how you want to account for your exercise, the way MyFitnessPal does it or go to a TDEE calculator - both work unless you do endurance cardio needing fuelling on the day.
sorry I mean to make my TDEE total, im unsure which is the right activity percentage to add.
Just follow the instructions on the TDEE site you are using and make your best guess. After 4 weeks adjust if necessary. No-one knows your activity better than you do.2 -
Just follow the instructions on the TDEE site you are using and make your best guess. After 4 weeks adjust if necessary. No-one knows your activity better than you do.[/quote]
ok thanks 1 -
Just wanting to make sure you've had a chance to read the recomp thread here, which covers some of the territory you're asking about, in quite a practical way.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat1 -
Just wanting to make sure you've had a chance to read the recomp thread here, which covers some of the territory you're asking about, in quite a practical way.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat
thanks ill have a read through :-)1 -
ok ive settled on a calculator that saying tdee is 1685. so is that my maintain goal, to eat 1685cals? burn around the same. previously when I was cutting and looking in to all this im sure it was up in 1800s?
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angermouse wrote: »ok ive settled on a calculator that saying tdee is 1685. so is that my maintain goal, to eat 1685cals? burn around the same. previously when I was cutting and looking in to all this im sure it was up in 1800s?
If you filled it out right, the TDEE calculator should be estimating total average all-day calorie burn, including your exercise.
See that word "estimating" in there? That's important. If you have logging history that you think is reasonably accurate, and that history says your maintenance calories are different than the calculator says, then trust your own data.
The calculators are accurate for most people, somewhat off (high or low) for a few, and quite far off (either direction) for a very, very few. That's the nature of statistical estimating methods, even really good ones.
Most calculators put my sedentary maintenance at around 1500. I've been sitting out exercise for several weeks now, getting < 5,000 steps on average, and losing weight (not super fast, but observably, on >1800 calories. I estimate my sedentary maintenance at something just a bit over 2000, based on nearly 4 years of logging experience. This isn't a common experience, to be farther from the estimates, but it happens.0 -
@angermouse you said before that your Fitbit estimates that you burn approximately 1850 Calories a day and that you were losing weight about as you would expect when eating at a deficit from that.
Your Fitbit estimate is a TDEE estimate. In other words an estimate as to how much you burned for the whole day.
Is there any reason to assume you will be burning less or more as of right now?
Why don't you start by eating what your Fitbit gives you, connect your Fitbit.com account to a trendweight.com account, wait 4 to 6 weeks to see how your weight trand changes, and correct your caloric goals on the basis of how your strength training has progressed and what your weight trend has done...2 -
angermouse wrote: »ok ive settled on a calculator that saying tdee is 1685. so is that my maintain goal, to eat 1685cals? burn around the same. previously when I was cutting and looking in to all this im sure it was up in 1800s?
If you filled it out right, the TDEE calculator should be estimating total average all-day calorie burn, including your exercise.
See that word "estimating" in there? That's important. If you have logging history that you think is reasonably accurate, and that history says your maintenance calories are different than the calculator says, then trust your own data.
The calculators are accurate for most people, somewhat off (high or low) for a few, and quite far off (either direction) for a very, very few. That's the nature of statistical estimating methods, even really good ones.
Most calculators put my sedentary maintenance at around 1500. I've been sitting out exercise for several weeks now, getting < 5,000 steps on average, and losing weight (not super fast, but observably, on >1800 calories. I estimate my sedentary maintenance at something just a bit over 2000, based on nearly 4 years of logging experience. This isn't a common experience, to be farther from the estimates, but it happens.
yes I do have logs that are at 1800 burn on gym days so I will take more notes of this. I usually tap the info in and forget, just eating what id tracked for the week.0 -
@angermouse you said before that your Fitbit estimates that you burn approximately 1850 Calories a day and that you were losing weight about as you would expect when eating at a deficit from that.
Your Fitbit estimate is a TDEE estimate. In other words an estimate as to how much you burned for the whole day.
Is there any reason to assume you will be burning less or more as of right now?
Why don't you start by eating what your Fitbit gives you, connect your Fitbit.com account to a trendweight.com account, wait 4 to 6 weeks to see how your weight trand changes, and correct your caloric goals on the basis of how your strength training has progressed and what your weight trend has done...
yes fitbit says the burn is 1800 on gym days, I was questioning the fit bits 1500 food intake, I changed it from lose to maintain. when inputting meals it has a 1500cal limit. so was wondering if thats a maintenance or tdee which seem low for what I thought was loss before. this is why im here haha. confused obviously. 0 -
no reason for burning less im doing the same thing, its just the changing on my fit bit data that's changed.
@PAV888 I will be more aware of my logs from now, will also look into the trendwegiht.com, previously when logging for fat loss my fit bit was saying 1600 so don't know whats happened there, probably gone wrong from the start? but to be honest I use fit bit more for the hr and keeping track of calories burned. I calculated my tdee from a youtube video (gaugegirltraining) which said maintenance was around 1800 and fat loss around 1500. so those numbers are I focused on previously. as I said before I do way too much looking into things and get info overload and confusion.
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Don't get too wrapped up in complication - making it more complicated is a choice, only make that choice if it's actually helpful to you. I get the strong impression though it's just stressing you out and making you more confused.
You can simplify things right down to setting your daily goal at 1800, track your long term weight trend, make adjustments.
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ok scrap previous post, tried to edit but some reason wont let me click on the option.
todays fitbit with no food logged yet is 1616cals so maybe it was because Id messed about with the maintain half way through the day so data is interrupted?0 -
Don't get too wrapped up in complication - making it more complicated is a choice, only make that choice if it's actually helpful to you. I get the strong impression though it's just stressing you out and making you more confused.
You can simplify things right down to setting your daily goal at 1800, track your long term weight trend, make adjustments.
yes it is stressing me out
its my own fault. need to work out macro split yet. more confusion haha 0 -
angermouse wrote: »@angermouse you said before that your Fitbit estimates that you burn approximately 1850 Calories a day and that you were losing weight about as you would expect when eating at a deficit from that.
Your Fitbit estimate is a TDEE estimate. In other words an estimate as to how much you burned for the whole day.
Is there any reason to assume you will be burning less or more as of right now?
Why don't you start by eating what your Fitbit gives you, connect your Fitbit.com account to a trendweight.com account, wait 4 to 6 weeks to see how your weight trand changes, and correct your caloric goals on the basis of how your strength training has progressed and what your weight trend has done...
yes fitbit says the burn is 1800 on gym days, I was questioning the fit bits 1500 food intake, I changed it from lose to maintain. when inputting meals it has a 1500cal limit. so was wondering if thats a maintenance or tdee which seem low for what I thought was loss before. this is why im here haha. confused obviously.
There is no limit or food goal when it comes to using your Fitbit to estimate your caloric expenditure.
Your Fitbit estimates your calories out.
You log your calories IN in MFP.
At the end of the day, at midnight, the two synchronize if you have them connected to each other and, at that point, you can see if you ate all your Fitbit calories, or not.
Really, as long as you're close, it shouldn't matter too much.
It is still an estimate.
Then, after 29 days or so you add up all the calories you ate based on your MFP logging and all the calories you spent based on Fitbit logging.
And you compare the difference to your trending weight change.
Let's work through an example!
Let's pretend that you will start eating an average of 1900 Calories a day as of tomorrow--that's quite a bit more than what you're eating now based on what you've been saying, right?
29 days later you will have eaten and logged: 55,100 Calories
And let's pretend that your Fitbit averages on the same 29 days 1750 Calories (because you're saying that you don't always log 1800 or more Calories; but, only do so when you exercise).
This would mean that your Fitbit, in 29 days, will think that you would have spent 50,750 Calories.
And let's pretend that Day 1 was March 25, 2019, a Monday and that your trending weight according to trendweight.com that day was 117.7lbs!
29 days later it will be April 22, 2019.
Your Calories In - Calories Out indicate that you overfed by 4,350 Calories in total.
This translates into an "expected" gain of 1.24 lbs, so you would expect your TRENDING WEIGHT IN TRENDWEIGHT.COM to claim that you are at a weight level of 119.9 lbs.
if your trending weight on that day proves to be 119lbs, I would say that your Fitbit UNDER-estimated your activity by [(119.0 - 119.9 ) * 3500] / 29 = -108.62 Calories a day, or 6.2% of your Fitbit TDEE of 1750
If your trending weight on that day was 120.5lbs, I would say that your Fitbit OVER-estimated your activity by [(120.5-119.9)*3500] / 29 = 72.41 Calories a day, or 4.14% of your Fitbit TDEE of 1750
Having this estimate you can now eat with even more precision based on what your Fitbit says you spend every day and taking into account your "correction" factor from the past 29 or so days... and recalculate again 29 days later...
(29 days chosen because it appears to be the average length of a monthly cycle)3 -
There is no limit or food goal when it comes to using your Fitbit to estimate your caloric expenditure.
Your Fitbit estimates your calories out.
You log your calories IN in MFP.
yes I guess I haven't understood the fitbit right. its because it starts with a number before I log food and thought this to be my daily intake. obviously that changes with exercise. but as I say I never took much notice if it until I came here.
I will try and get set up to the trendweight and concentrate on it all bit more. last post has a lot of info so will take a while to sink in haha need to re-read it a few times. 2 -
Personally I think you would do well to put your fitbit away in a drawer and forget about it.
It seems to be hindering your clarity of thought and you get lost in a numbers game.
PAV8888 likes numbers and is very good at using them but for you it just seems to feed anxiety.
Don't get carried away with macros either - it's far less important at maintenance, just get a reasonable amount of protein within what you regard as an overall healthy diet. Focus on the forest and not the trees.
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@sijomial its tempting to stamp on the thing! if it aint obvious numbers aint my thing haha
I was looking at
1.1g per lb of fat and .3 for fat and hope it will all fall into place without added stress 0 -
.35g of fat per lb of weight is a better MINIMUM for a woman. You should be aiming to be above.
Tbh there is nothing wrong with MFP default macro split as long as you view protein as a minimum and fat as something to get close to1 -
protein as a minimum? do you mean in the split like 40 30 30 thing or as in 0.8g minimum.1
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In the % Split.
.8 by weight is fine. You won't keel over if you do .6 and you won't keel over if you do 1.
In fact .6 per lb is two x the RDA, so the government promises you won't keel over even with 0.3... however you might not be giving yourself the best chance to build muscle if you only do 0.3
Macros are NICE to aim for but not CRUCIAL as long as you get your minimums in.
A caloric imbalance will eventually show up in as a weight change, but even that won't happen in a day!!!
As long as you're in the game and actively monitoring yourself you will always be able to adjust!!!!2 -
so the protein has to be the least? sorry if that's a silly question, i see 40 carb 30 fat and protein a lot.
when you say minimums can you explain. i thought this part would be easy.
im ok with pro 1.1 im used to eating at that high.0 -
Some people go by macro percentages - such as 40% 30% 30%.
Some will fine tune those percentages based on target in grams - that works well with the TDEE every day the same calorie goal.
Some (like me) just set minimum goals for protein and fat in grams and when they are met or exceeded the rest of your calorie allowance can be used however you like.
Minimum meaning it's perfectly fine to exceed that goal.
An analogy would be I need 4 gallons of fuel in my car's tank to get home, more than 4 gallons is still perfectly fine.
Personally when I was logging food I liked:
1g of protein per pound of estimated lean mass.
0.4g of fat per pound of bodyweight.
The rest of that day's calorie allowance can come from protein, fat or carbs - mostly for me carbs.
That gives you a lot of flexibility and takes away the stress of trying to meet percentages or ratios.0 -
Here is a resource where you can see the minimums the US government recommends that you eat on average per day based on age and gender: https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/appendix-7/
ANYTHING ABOVE THESE MINIMUMS IN WHATEVER COMBINATION IS FINE AS LONG AS YOU'RE ENJOYING IT!!!
If you're muscle building eating a bit more protein than the minimum is good. You're already doing that in sufficiency with the 1.1g per lb you've selected. I wouldn't fret too much about missing that target up or down from time to time.
As long as you're ON AVERAGE hitting the minimums your basic health in terms of nutrition is covered!
All the appendixes are fairly interesting.... https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/ (The web page title is Dietary Guidelines 2015 - 2020)
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oh well i think im doing ok there then. ive just changed to maintain so still adjusting to right macros, why im here
before id aim for 38g fat 160g carb and 130g protein always hit or go above those.
so would 0.4 fat be good for recomping? my % on deficit was roughly 20-25%
i was doing it in gram as i was eating same calorie goal each day. i like to pre plan my meals for the week, helps with shopping what to buy etc. i use an app that lets me log the whole week ahead. app also works it out in both % and gram.0 -
angermouse wrote: »so would 0.4 fat be good for recomping?
Irrelevant - there isn't any specific macro ratio or volume of fat that is "good for recomping".
It's just a way to ensure you get a reasonable amount of an essential nutrient for general health.
What is good for recomp is training hard and effectively. It's your training that starts the whole process off and your diet merely supports the process - it doesn't drive the process.3 -
The default MFP macro goals with calories set to maintain are FINE to "aim" for.
All you need to keep in mind in the background is that you might have some internal minimums that you would like to reach.
For example to reach 125g of protein a day or to eat at least 50g of fat in a day or to eat at least 26g of fiber in a day.
Once you've gone over the minimums... it's free for all time!
Once you progress with your training and are well established in maintenance you may then seek to embark in further optimizations...3 -
ok ill have to retrain my brain with this learning, so when dieting or in deficit its the other way round? as the saying goes 80% diet 20% exercise, abs made in the kitchen and so on.
i ask about the fat as i don't want to it to creep back on and didn't know if there was a target, but i guess what works for one doesn't for another.
i normally work out protein and fat in gram for the day, add together and subtract this from tdee, dividing that by 4 to make up total for gram carbs. think im doing what your explaining? im going long way round explaining it haha!
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"ok ill have to retrain my brain with this learning, so when dieting or in deficit its the other way round? as the saying goes 80% diet 20% exercise, abs made in the kitchen and so on. "
A bunch of frankly silly sayings isn't relevant or in the slightest bit helpful!
For muscle strengthening and building training is the important thing - whatever your weight goal.
For controlling your weight your calorie balance is the important thing - whether losing, gaining or maintaining weight.
"i ask about the fat as i don't want to it to creep back on and didn't know if there was a target, but i guess what works for one doesn't for another. "
Eating fat doesn't make you fat - eating in a calorie surplus for a prolonged period of time makes you fat. You can eat a really high fat percentage diet and lose, maintain or gain weight depending on your calorie balance.
There is a nutritional minimum for fat for general health - that's it. If you want to eat more but within your calorie allowance that's ok, because you are within your calorie goal you are burning it off, there is no excess to store away. Remember it isn't going to lead to storage of body fat without being in a surplus.
"i normally work out protein and fat in gram for the day, add together and subtract this from tdee, dividing that by 4 to make up total for gram carbs. think im doing what your explaining? im going long way round explaining it haha! "
Again massively over-complicating. Do try to stop yourself adding more and more hoops to jump through.
You don't have to do any maths at all, that is the job of the food diary so you don't have to.
Simply have general mimimum goals for fat and protein to meet or exceed and a calorie goal to get reasonably close to. You don't have to stop at the fat and protein minimums if you don't want to, carbs don't have to fill all of the remainder unless you particularly want to some days. It's flexible not restrictive.
You don't need to add these counter-productive rules, restrictions and calculations. The only prize for obsessive precision is anxiety and making life harder for yourself. You don't have to eat the same every day, you don't need precision or perfection every day. Near enough is good enough.
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