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Split from Smoothie lovers
Replies
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This thread is like opposite land. Nobody should eat fruit is like nobody should save money for retirement because you'll have to pay tax.12
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lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
Why would you avoid fruit if your goal is weight loss?
Fruit is a good source of fibre, vitamins & minerals. Fibre can help you feel full which in turn can help you better maintain a calorie deficit, which is what is needed for weight loss.
Fruit is mainly sugar. Yes there are also many health benefits to fruit but all of these can be consumed, without the sugar in the form of vegetables. Avoid the fruit while cutting weight will help regulate your insulin.
You know what also has sugar in them? Vegetables.
Man, do you really want to be that person!?
Of course they do, most food does. But fruit or fructose is called nature’s candy for a reason and one piece is more than your daily requirement of sugar. It’s just logic.
Well given the misinformation you've been posting, yes. I do. Never mind that this all fails to mention that what's important for weight loss is calories, not sugar. And yes, of course there are calories in sugar, but there are also calories in other carbohydrates, protein, etc.
I'm also not sure how you're getting that "one piece" of fruit and/or candy is more than one's daily requirement of sugar. That's not at all logical given the different amounts of sugar in fruit, the wide variety of sizes in fruit, and what constitutes "one piece".
Ok first of all, never said calories were not the most important. They are. Secondly i was suggesting to not consume fruit in smoothies because it is easily over consumed, it changes the way and speed at which the body processes the sugar (causing that post sugar crash where people tend to binge after)
I am not forgetting the other macro's, in fact i am taking those into consideration ...
there is roughly 23 grams of sugar in a large apple.
Recommended daily amounts of sugar:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
in an average male that doesn't leave you much space in the typical diet.
on top of this, people often consume smoothies first thing in the morning, spiking your insulin which is counter productive.
i could go on if you want. i have plenty more information.
The WHO guidelines are for added sugar, not fruit...it even says so in the link.
Your other link is about people with insulin resistance...people who do not have insulin resistance will regulate insulin just fine. Fear mongering fruit is ridiculous.12 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Why would I expect you to know more about nutrition than a doctor? This is especially true given that doctors have more resources than you do (I'm assuming you aren't a doctor) - whether or not they take advantage of those resources is another matter mind you.lukejoycePT wrote: »
If someone has issues involving insulin or "hormonal challenges" their first port of call needs to be an endocrinologist, not you. And again, you seem to be arguing against a link that you originally used to attempt to prove pointlukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
Why would you avoid fruit if your goal is weight loss?
Fruit is a good source of fibre, vitamins & minerals. Fibre can help you feel full which in turn can help you better maintain a calorie deficit, which is what is needed for weight loss.
Fruit is mainly sugar. Yes there are also many health benefits to fruit but all of these can be consumed, without the sugar in the form of vegetables. Avoid the fruit while cutting weight will help regulate your insulin.
You know what also has sugar in them? Vegetables.
Man, do you really want to be that person!?
Of course they do, most food does. But fruit or fructose is called nature’s candy for a reason and one piece is more than your daily requirement of sugar. It’s just logic.
Well given the misinformation you've been posting, yes. I do. Never mind that this all fails to mention that what's important for weight loss is calories, not sugar. And yes, of course there are calories in sugar, but there are also calories in other carbohydrates, protein, etc.
I'm also not sure how you're getting that "one piece" of fruit and/or candy is more than one's daily requirement of sugar. That's not at all logical given the different amounts of sugar in fruit, the wide variety of sizes in fruit, and what constitutes "one piece".
Ok first of all, never said calories were not the most important. They are. Secondly i was suggesting to not consume fruit in smoothies because it is easily over consumed, it changes the way and speed at which the body processes the sugar (causing that post sugar crash where people tend to binge after)
I am not forgetting the other macro's, in fact i am taking those into consideration ...
there is roughly 23 grams of sugar in a large apple.
Recommended daily amounts of sugar:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
in an average male that doesn't leave you much space in the typical diet.
on top of this, people often consume smoothies first thing in the morning, spiking your insulin which is counter productive.
i could go on if you want. i have plenty more information.
From your link:
The WHO guideline does not refer to the sugars in fresh fruits and vegetables, and sugars naturally present in milk, because there is no reported evidence of adverse effects of consuming these sugars.
Sugar is sugar. It doesn’t matter where it comes from if you over consume sugar it will causing all kinds of problems.
People ignore sugar from carbohydrates,
Vegetables and milk but it all counts.
Your body will break sugar down slower or faster depending on how you consume it but essentially a gram of sugar is a gram where ever it comes from.
You can chose to ignore what I’m saying but those of you who are obese and can’t seem to lose the weight on a calorie controlled diet, then reducing your sugar intake is a great place to start.
Let me get this straight? You are arguing against the content of the link, that you posted, to support your own argument?
For people who can't seem to lose weight on a calorie controlled diet, most likely they aren't in a calorie deficit, because they are massively underestimating how much they are eating and their portion sizes. Accurately logging their food intake would be a great place to start because that's where the problem lies most of the time.
Here's an example for you:
NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Yeh because doctors know so much about nutrition...
I would expect an endocrinologist to know significantly more about hormones than you do. Again, note your repeated references to insulin and "hormonal challenges".
Sadly, doctors have little knowledge of nutrition. They normally jump onto medication and slap a band aid onto a problem instead of looking to diet first. This is usually because there is a lack of training and because medicine is big business. There is no money in curing people.
And yes an endocrinologist knows a huge amount about hormones, but again little knowledge on nutrition.
I know this to be the case as my mother has an issue with a hormone imbalance from giving birth to me, she was given no help with her diet. Instead given medication which made her sicker and more over weight, until she quit having sugar in her diet. And she followed all the calorie controlled diets going but nothing worked.
But hey, I know nothing. I have no experience in these matters as I am not as you say a qualified doctor.
And now that this has been moved I'll summarize what I typed, posted, then flagged.
What you're not seeming to grasp is that a. most doctors historically haven't been taught much about nutrition becauses there is an exceeding amount of knowledge to be learned in a surprisingly short amount of time and that b. med school in the US is very expensive. Contrary to popular belief, it takes a very long time for doctors to pay off their loans from med school (assuming they weren't able to somehow have someone fund it). Despite that, doctors still have significantly more resources than you (or I) do by the very nature of their institutional resources.
It also seems like you just mistrust doctors in general which is sad. What's amusing about your "there is no money in curing people" statement is that that's simply not the case. If people live longer, they will have seen more doctors. They'll go in for minor and routine things (broken bones, annual eye exams, annual or biannual physical exams, pap-smears, colonoscopies, etc) and more major things, like age related illnesses. Additionally some of those age related illnesses cost an extremely large amount of money to manage. It's estimated that in 2019 there will be $290 billion spent on caring for people with dementia - and while that likely includes the costs of some juvenile cases, the vast majority of people with dementia are not children.
Of course doctors actually do benefit from curing patients. Outside of the presumed emotional benefits to the doctor (I can't imagine it'd be great to one's moral to never be able to cure a patient that has a curable illness), the doctor becomes more respected and will likely garner more patients if they are a successful doctor. Of course, there are also diseases that are chronic and/or can't be cured. See the dementia example above, but also things like CF and type 1 diabetes (save for a potential pancreas transplant).
I'm also not sure why I would expect you to have a lot of knowledge in nutrition. What are your qualifications? What research have you done? How many academic articles on nutrition do you read a month (a guess would do)? What contributions have you made to the field (even minor ones, like being a part of a research group)?9 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
Yes because Medicine is up to date. Do you know how many years it take before a medical study that is proven takes to circulate into the medical system? About 10years.
And no I’m not ignoring it, you have just been cherry picking my points throughout to suit your argument.
Would you be able to link us to the studies showing leaky gut is a real medical diagnosis that are just too recent to have filtered down to the front lines of the medical community?
And what are your nutritional qualifications?13 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
Yes because Medicine is up to date. Do you know how many years it take before a medical study that is proven takes to circulate into the medical system? About 10years.
And no I’m not ignoring it, you have just been cherry picking my points throughout to suit your argument.
Wait, first you said that it was a recognized diagnosis(its not), now you are saying that medicine is not up to date? You can't have it both ways, so which is it? You are trying to discredit everyone else in this thread and it is making you look foolish. What cracks me up the most is as I was reading through this thread I was eating a big bowl of blueberries, strawberries, and pineapple. I had no idea I was making myself obese...lol10 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
Yes because Medicine is up to date. Do you know how many years it take before a medical study that is proven takes to circulate into the medical system? About 10years.
And no I’m not ignoring it, you have just been cherry picking my points throughout to suit your argument.
Wait, first you said that it was a recognized diagnosis(its not), now you are saying that medicine is not up to date? You can't have it both ways, so which is it? You are trying to discredit everyone else in this thread and it is making you look foolish. What cracks me up the most is as I was reading through this thread I was eating a big bowl of blueberries, strawberries, and pineapple. I had no idea I was making myself obese...lol
Mine was blackberries. Delicious, delicious blackberries, mixed with greek yogurt (OH NOES, lactose!) and vanilla protein powder.7 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
Yes because Medicine is up to date. Do you know how many years it take before a medical study that is proven takes to circulate into the medical system? About 10years.
And no I’m not ignoring it, you have just been cherry picking my points throughout to suit your argument.
Wait, first you said that it was a recognized diagnosis(its not), now you are saying that medicine is not up to date? You can't have it both ways, so which is it? You are trying to discredit everyone else in this thread and it is making you look foolish. What cracks me up the most is as I was reading through this thread I was eating a big bowl of blueberries, strawberries, and pineapple. I had no idea I was making myself obese...lol
Is that you in your avatar? Can you help me to become obese please?
I don't understand where arguments against healthy and natural food sources stem from on an individual basis. I don't support monetizing it, but at least there's a rationale behind that...I dunno...6 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
Yes because Medicine is up to date. Do you know how many years it take before a medical study that is proven takes to circulate into the medical system? About 10years.
And no I’m not ignoring it, you have just been cherry picking my points throughout to suit your argument.
Wait, first you said that it was a recognized diagnosis(its not), now you are saying that medicine is not up to date? You can't have it both ways, so which is it? You are trying to discredit everyone else in this thread and it is making you look foolish. What cracks me up the most is as I was reading through this thread I was eating a big bowl of blueberries, strawberries, and pineapple. I had no idea I was making myself obese...lol
Is that you in your avatar? Can you help me to become obese please?
I don't understand where arguments against healthy and natural food sources stem from on an individual basis. I don't support monetizing it, but at least there's a rationale behind that...I dunno...
Yep, its me. I am very much a proponent of eating what makes you happy, but doing so in moderation. I had Ben and Jerrys last night because it fit into my maintenance goals(currently working on a recomp). To be honest, I don't stress about much besides getting an adequate amount of protein and making sure my diet is well rounded. I love carbs because they help fuel my workouts and give me plenty of energy. Its part of the reason my way of eating has been sustainable since I lost 70 pounds three years ago. I could care less what my sugar intake is, because my diet is well rounded so its always at a reasonable level. Cutting out fruit is an absolutely absurd idea to me though.12 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
Yes because Medicine is up to date. Do you know how many years it take before a medical study that is proven takes to circulate into the medical system? About 10years.
And no I’m not ignoring it, you have just been cherry picking my points throughout to suit your argument.
Wait, first you said that it was a recognized diagnosis(its not), now you are saying that medicine is not up to date? You can't have it both ways, so which is it? You are trying to discredit everyone else in this thread and it is making you look foolish. What cracks me up the most is as I was reading through this thread I was eating a big bowl of blueberries, strawberries, and pineapple. I had no idea I was making myself obese...lol
Is that you in your avatar? Can you help me to become obese please?
I don't understand where arguments against healthy and natural food sources stem from on an individual basis. I don't support monetizing it, but at least there's a rationale behind that...I dunno...
Yep, its me. I am very much a proponent of eating what makes you happy, but doing so in moderation. I had Ben and Jerrys last night because it fit into my maintenance goals(currently working on a recomp). To be honest, I don't stress about much besides getting an adequate amount of protein and making sure my diet is well rounded. I love carbs because they help fuel my workouts and give me plenty of energy. Its part of the reason my way of eating has been sustainable since I lost 70 pounds three years ago. I could care less what my sugar intake is, because my diet is well rounded so its always at a reasonable level. Cutting out fruit is an absolutely absurd idea to me though.
You my people.
The important question... What flavor B&Js???
9 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
Yes because Medicine is up to date. Do you know how many years it take before a medical study that is proven takes to circulate into the medical system? About 10years.
And no I’m not ignoring it, you have just been cherry picking my points throughout to suit your argument.
Wait, first you said that it was a recognized diagnosis(its not), now you are saying that medicine is not up to date? You can't have it both ways, so which is it? You are trying to discredit everyone else in this thread and it is making you look foolish. What cracks me up the most is as I was reading through this thread I was eating a big bowl of blueberries, strawberries, and pineapple. I had no idea I was making myself obese...lol
Is that you in your avatar? Can you help me to become obese please?
I don't understand where arguments against healthy and natural food sources stem from on an individual basis. I don't support monetizing it, but at least there's a rationale behind that...I dunno...
Yep, its me. I am very much a proponent of eating what makes you happy, but doing so in moderation. I had Ben and Jerrys last night because it fit into my maintenance goals(currently working on a recomp). To be honest, I don't stress about much besides getting an adequate amount of protein and making sure my diet is well rounded. I love carbs because they help fuel my workouts and give me plenty of energy. Its part of the reason my way of eating has been sustainable since I lost 70 pounds three years ago. I could care less what my sugar intake is, because my diet is well rounded so its always at a reasonable level. Cutting out fruit is an absolutely absurd idea to me though.
Incredible job wmd. I like your take on food - sustainability is everything to me, and yeah, fruit is staying with me for the long haul.5 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
Yes because Medicine is up to date. Do you know how many years it take before a medical study that is proven takes to circulate into the medical system? About 10years.
And no I’m not ignoring it, you have just been cherry picking my points throughout to suit your argument.
Wait, first you said that it was a recognized diagnosis(its not), now you are saying that medicine is not up to date? You can't have it both ways, so which is it? You are trying to discredit everyone else in this thread and it is making you look foolish. What cracks me up the most is as I was reading through this thread I was eating a big bowl of blueberries, strawberries, and pineapple. I had no idea I was making myself obese...lol
Is that you in your avatar? Can you help me to become obese please?
I don't understand where arguments against healthy and natural food sources stem from on an individual basis. I don't support monetizing it, but at least there's a rationale behind that...I dunno...
Yep, its me. I am very much a proponent of eating what makes you happy, but doing so in moderation. I had Ben and Jerrys last night because it fit into my maintenance goals(currently working on a recomp). To be honest, I don't stress about much besides getting an adequate amount of protein and making sure my diet is well rounded. I love carbs because they help fuel my workouts and give me plenty of energy. Its part of the reason my way of eating has been sustainable since I lost 70 pounds three years ago. I could care less what my sugar intake is, because my diet is well rounded so its always at a reasonable level. Cutting out fruit is an absolutely absurd idea to me though.
You my people.
The important question... What flavor B&Js???
It was the Tonight Dough pint slices. 290 calories of deliciousness. Sure, it has plenty of sugar, but I worked out hard yesterday, had plenty of calories to play with, and it was great for my mental health because it made me happy.
8 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
Yes because Medicine is up to date. Do you know how many years it take before a medical study that is proven takes to circulate into the medical system? About 10years.
And no I’m not ignoring it, you have just been cherry picking my points throughout to suit your argument.
Wait, first you said that it was a recognized diagnosis(its not), now you are saying that medicine is not up to date? You can't have it both ways, so which is it? You are trying to discredit everyone else in this thread and it is making you look foolish. What cracks me up the most is as I was reading through this thread I was eating a big bowl of blueberries, strawberries, and pineapple. I had no idea I was making myself obese...lol
Is that you in your avatar? Can you help me to become obese please?
I don't understand where arguments against healthy and natural food sources stem from on an individual basis. I don't support monetizing it, but at least there's a rationale behind that...I dunno...
Yep, its me. I am very much a proponent of eating what makes you happy, but doing so in moderation. I had Ben and Jerrys last night because it fit into my maintenance goals(currently working on a recomp). To be honest, I don't stress about much besides getting an adequate amount of protein and making sure my diet is well rounded. I love carbs because they help fuel my workouts and give me plenty of energy. Its part of the reason my way of eating has been sustainable since I lost 70 pounds three years ago. I could care less what my sugar intake is, because my diet is well rounded so its always at a reasonable level. Cutting out fruit is an absolutely absurd idea to me though.
You my people.
The important question... What flavor B&Js???
I can't stay away from Cherry Garcia. It should be illegal, how good that is.2 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
Yes because Medicine is up to date. Do you know how many years it take before a medical study that is proven takes to circulate into the medical system? About 10years.
And no I’m not ignoring it, you have just been cherry picking my points throughout to suit your argument.
Wait, first you said that it was a recognized diagnosis(its not), now you are saying that medicine is not up to date? You can't have it both ways, so which is it? You are trying to discredit everyone else in this thread and it is making you look foolish. What cracks me up the most is as I was reading through this thread I was eating a big bowl of blueberries, strawberries, and pineapple. I had no idea I was making myself obese...lol
Is that you in your avatar? Can you help me to become obese please?
I don't understand where arguments against healthy and natural food sources stem from on an individual basis. I don't support monetizing it, but at least there's a rationale behind that...I dunno...
Yep, its me. I am very much a proponent of eating what makes you happy, but doing so in moderation. I had Ben and Jerrys last night because it fit into my maintenance goals(currently working on a recomp). To be honest, I don't stress about much besides getting an adequate amount of protein and making sure my diet is well rounded. I love carbs because they help fuel my workouts and give me plenty of energy. Its part of the reason my way of eating has been sustainable since I lost 70 pounds three years ago. I could care less what my sugar intake is, because my diet is well rounded so its always at a reasonable level. Cutting out fruit is an absolutely absurd idea to me though.
You my people.
The important question... What flavor B&Js???
It was the Tonight Dough pint slices. 290 calories of deliciousness. Sure, it has plenty of sugar, but I worked out hard yesterday, had plenty of calories to play with, and it was great for my mental health because it made me happy.
That is the correct answer.
I treat myself to a pint about once every three months. 1240 calories of YUM!3 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
Why would you avoid fruit if your goal is weight loss?
Fruit is a good source of fibre, vitamins & minerals. Fibre can help you feel full which in turn can help you better maintain a calorie deficit, which is what is needed for weight loss.
Fruit is mainly sugar. Yes there are also many health benefits to fruit but all of these can be consumed, without the sugar in the form of vegetables. Avoid the fruit while cutting weight will help regulate your insulin.
You know what also has sugar in them? Vegetables.
Man, do you really want to be that person!?
Of course they do, most food does. But fruit or fructose is called nature’s candy for a reason and one piece is more than your daily requirement of sugar. It’s just logic.
Well given the misinformation you've been posting, yes. I do. Never mind that this all fails to mention that what's important for weight loss is calories, not sugar. And yes, of course there are calories in sugar, but there are also calories in other carbohydrates, protein, etc.
I'm also not sure how you're getting that "one piece" of fruit and/or candy is more than one's daily requirement of sugar. That's not at all logical given the different amounts of sugar in fruit, the wide variety of sizes in fruit, and what constitutes "one piece".
Ok first of all, never said calories were not the most important. They are. Secondly i was suggesting to not consume fruit in smoothies because it is easily over consumed, it changes the way and speed at which the body processes the sugar (causing that post sugar crash where people tend to binge after)
I am not forgetting the other macro's, in fact i am taking those into consideration ...
there is roughly 23 grams of sugar in a large apple.
Recommended daily amounts of sugar:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
in an average male that doesn't leave you much space in the typical diet.
on top of this, people often consume smoothies first thing in the morning, spiking your insulin which is counter productive.
i could go on if you want. i have plenty more information.
I have never had a sugar crash after consuming a smoothie. Not even the fruitiest mango and peach based smoothie (I dislike banana smoothies). Not even when I make them with lots of fresh watermelon, as well as strawberries. IME (although not saying this is true for all), it takes a long time to consume a smoothie with the ingredients I use, and thus feels just as substantial as a regular eaten breakfast (with the same amount of fruit or otherwise). Juice would be different since the amount of juice that would result from the same ingredients would be tiny and the fiber would be largely gone.
The WHO's recommendation is ideally less than 5% of total cals from ADDED sugar. Fruit does not have ANY added sugar, so how can it take up your recommended daily added sugar from the WHO?
Btw, I had fruit in my smoothie this morning, and it still had only 13 g of sugar with 9.5 g of fiber (300 cal, 29 g total carbs, 15 g of fat, 21 g of protein).
It’s great for you that you can consume sugar and not have an issues with your weight. If you don’t have trouble then cutting sugar isn’t necessary for you, unless you want to reduce inflammation from the body and reduce other health risks.
Once again, then, your advice to cut out fruit would be a bad idea.
Here's a good article on what is known about food and "inflammation": https://www.nutritionletter.tufts.edu/issues/14_1/current-articles/Anti-Inflammatory-Diets-Do-They-Work_2286-1.html
"Plants are prolific chemical factories. They continuously produce thousands of compounds called phytochemicals. These chemicals perform vital functions for the plants, and some are noxious or even poisonous. But some plant chemicals are helpful to humans when consumed in foods, such as fruits, vegetables, plant oils, and whole grains. Perhaps not surprisingly, these same foods are part of the healthy eating pattern outlined in the 2015-2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans. Part of the reason why eating patterns based on whole foods are healthy may be their anti-inflammatory properties....
Good and Bad Inflammation: Inflammation is not inherently a bad thing—far from it. Short-lived, or acute, inflammation is part of the body’s healing response to injury, toxins, and infection. Damaged cells release chemicals that allow blood vessels to leak fluid into the tissues, causing swelling that may help to isolate the damage from the surrounding tissues. The immune system dispatches special cells to target invaders like bacteria and eliminate the damaged cells.
Some research has tied persistent, low-level inflammation to a variety of health problems. “These are the chronic diseases that we’re most worried about, like heart disease, cancer, and arthritis, and diabetes, and maybe even the non-Alzheimer’s vascular dementias,” says Jeffrey B. Blumberg, PhD, Tufts professor and senior scientist at the HNRCA Antioxidants Research Laboratory....
In studies, chronic inflammation can be measured in the “footprints” of inflammation, such as the levels of certain telltale chemicals circulating in the blood called biomarkers. Biomarkers commonly used in studies are C-reactive protein (CRP) and proteins released by the immune system, called cytokines.
Taking in anti-inflammatory phytochemicals is associated with lower levels of CRP and other inflammatory biomarkers. But this correlation doesn’t necessarily prove that anti-inflammatory diets prevent diseases or relieve their symptoms. Inflammation itself could be a symptom—not the underlying cause—of a given health problem....
Anti-inflammatory foods are the ones you are already advised to eat for optimal health. “These include whole grains, which are very rich in phytochemicals,” Blumberg says. 'Beans, nuts, herbs, and spices are filled with anti-inflammatory compounds called flavonoids and related compounds. Fiber is another part of anti-inflammation, and of course fruits, vegetables, and the omega-3 fatty acids in fish. Anti-inflammatory diets really have some merit but, on the other hand, they’re not magical panaceas.'"
From another source:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/foods-that-fight-inflammation
The listed examples of anti-inflammatory foods include: "fruits such as strawberries, blueberries, cherries, and oranges."8 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
If someone has issues involving insulin or "hormonal challenges" their first port of call needs to be an endocrinologist, not you. And again, you seem to be arguing against a link that you originally used to attempt to prove pointlukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
Why would you avoid fruit if your goal is weight loss?
Fruit is a good source of fibre, vitamins & minerals. Fibre can help you feel full which in turn can help you better maintain a calorie deficit, which is what is needed for weight loss.
Fruit is mainly sugar. Yes there are also many health benefits to fruit but all of these can be consumed, without the sugar in the form of vegetables. Avoid the fruit while cutting weight will help regulate your insulin.
You know what also has sugar in them? Vegetables.
Man, do you really want to be that person!?
Of course they do, most food does. But fruit or fructose is called nature’s candy for a reason and one piece is more than your daily requirement of sugar. It’s just logic.
Well given the misinformation you've been posting, yes. I do. Never mind that this all fails to mention that what's important for weight loss is calories, not sugar. And yes, of course there are calories in sugar, but there are also calories in other carbohydrates, protein, etc.
I'm also not sure how you're getting that "one piece" of fruit and/or candy is more than one's daily requirement of sugar. That's not at all logical given the different amounts of sugar in fruit, the wide variety of sizes in fruit, and what constitutes "one piece".
Ok first of all, never said calories were not the most important. They are. Secondly i was suggesting to not consume fruit in smoothies because it is easily over consumed, it changes the way and speed at which the body processes the sugar (causing that post sugar crash where people tend to binge after)
I am not forgetting the other macro's, in fact i am taking those into consideration ...
there is roughly 23 grams of sugar in a large apple.
Recommended daily amounts of sugar:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
in an average male that doesn't leave you much space in the typical diet.
on top of this, people often consume smoothies first thing in the morning, spiking your insulin which is counter productive.
i could go on if you want. i have plenty more information.
From your link:
The WHO guideline does not refer to the sugars in fresh fruits and vegetables, and sugars naturally present in milk, because there is no reported evidence of adverse effects of consuming these sugars.
Sugar is sugar. It doesn’t matter where it comes from if you over consume sugar it will causing all kinds of problems.
People ignore sugar from carbohydrates,
Vegetables and milk but it all counts.
Your body will break sugar down slower or faster depending on how you consume it but essentially a gram of sugar is a gram where ever it comes from.
You can chose to ignore what I’m saying but those of you who are obese and can’t seem to lose the weight on a calorie controlled diet, then reducing your sugar intake is a great place to start.
Let me get this straight? You are arguing against the content of the link, that you posted, to support your own argument?
For people who can't seem to lose weight on a calorie controlled diet, most likely they aren't in a calorie deficit, because they are massively underestimating how much they are eating and their portion sizes. Accurately logging their food intake would be a great place to start because that's where the problem lies most of the time.
Here's an example for you:
NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Yeh because doctors know so much about nutrition...
Then why did you recommend viewing info from "Dr." Rhonda Patrick? And if she supports your position, what about that fruit smoothie she it touting?7 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Why would I expect you to know more about nutrition than a doctor? This is especially true given that doctors have more resources than you do (I'm assuming you aren't a doctor) - whether or not they take advantage of those resources is another matter mind you.lukejoycePT wrote: »
If someone has issues involving insulin or "hormonal challenges" their first port of call needs to be an endocrinologist, not you. And again, you seem to be arguing against a link that you originally used to attempt to prove pointlukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
Why would you avoid fruit if your goal is weight loss?
Fruit is a good source of fibre, vitamins & minerals. Fibre can help you feel full which in turn can help you better maintain a calorie deficit, which is what is needed for weight loss.
Fruit is mainly sugar. Yes there are also many health benefits to fruit but all of these can be consumed, without the sugar in the form of vegetables. Avoid the fruit while cutting weight will help regulate your insulin.
You know what also has sugar in them? Vegetables.
Man, do you really want to be that person!?
Of course they do, most food does. But fruit or fructose is called nature’s candy for a reason and one piece is more than your daily requirement of sugar. It’s just logic.
Well given the misinformation you've been posting, yes. I do. Never mind that this all fails to mention that what's important for weight loss is calories, not sugar. And yes, of course there are calories in sugar, but there are also calories in other carbohydrates, protein, etc.
I'm also not sure how you're getting that "one piece" of fruit and/or candy is more than one's daily requirement of sugar. That's not at all logical given the different amounts of sugar in fruit, the wide variety of sizes in fruit, and what constitutes "one piece".
Ok first of all, never said calories were not the most important. They are. Secondly i was suggesting to not consume fruit in smoothies because it is easily over consumed, it changes the way and speed at which the body processes the sugar (causing that post sugar crash where people tend to binge after)
I am not forgetting the other macro's, in fact i am taking those into consideration ...
there is roughly 23 grams of sugar in a large apple.
Recommended daily amounts of sugar:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
in an average male that doesn't leave you much space in the typical diet.
on top of this, people often consume smoothies first thing in the morning, spiking your insulin which is counter productive.
i could go on if you want. i have plenty more information.
From your link:
The WHO guideline does not refer to the sugars in fresh fruits and vegetables, and sugars naturally present in milk, because there is no reported evidence of adverse effects of consuming these sugars.
Sugar is sugar. It doesn’t matter where it comes from if you over consume sugar it will causing all kinds of problems.
People ignore sugar from carbohydrates,
Vegetables and milk but it all counts.
Your body will break sugar down slower or faster depending on how you consume it but essentially a gram of sugar is a gram where ever it comes from.
You can chose to ignore what I’m saying but those of you who are obese and can’t seem to lose the weight on a calorie controlled diet, then reducing your sugar intake is a great place to start.
Let me get this straight? You are arguing against the content of the link, that you posted, to support your own argument?
For people who can't seem to lose weight on a calorie controlled diet, most likely they aren't in a calorie deficit, because they are massively underestimating how much they are eating and their portion sizes. Accurately logging their food intake would be a great place to start because that's where the problem lies most of the time.
Here's an example for you:
NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Yeh because doctors know so much about nutrition...
I would expect an endocrinologist to know significantly more about hormones than you do. Again, note your repeated references to insulin and "hormonal challenges".
Sadly, doctors have little knowledge of nutrition. They normally jump onto medication and slap a band aid onto a problem instead of looking to diet first. This is usually because there is a lack of training and because medicine is big business. There is no money in curing people.
And yes an endocrinologist knows a huge amount about hormones, but again little knowledge on nutrition.
I know this to be the case as my mother has an issue with a hormone imbalance from giving birth to me, she was given no help with her diet. Instead given medication which made her sicker and more over weight, until she quit having sugar in her diet. And she followed all the calorie controlled diets going but nothing worked.
But hey, I know nothing. I have no experience in these matters as I am not as you say a qualified doctor.
I find it interesting that you poopoo doctors as being behind the times of studies, but you present an anecdote as evidence. It seems a shaky prioritization of evidence.
I'm aware of no studies showing eating fruit has the harmful effects associated with sugar. Overwhelmingly, the evidence is that eating fruit in whole form is associated with positive health outcomes, including better insulin sensitivity and insulin than those not eating fruit regularly.
Indeed, RCTs of some fruit even suggest that the phytonutrients in fruit may help regulate blood sugar: https://examine.com/nutrition/did-you-know-sugary-fruit-could-help-regulate-blood-sugar/
Sure, chemically, one molecule of sugar is the same as any molecule of the same saccharide type - a molecule of glucose is somewhat different than a fructose or sucrose - but that doesn't mean that consuming sugar from fruit has the same outcomes as consuming added sugar in hyperprocessed foods. There's a bit more going on in digestion and physiology than that.3 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
Blitzing. Chopping it into tiny pieces. You mean kind of like chewing? That thing our bodies do naturally, in order to start the digestion process? Fructose is fructose.
If I'm wrong, please educate me. I don't understand how putting fruit into a processor and mixing it into a smoothie is any different than chewing it.14 -
Gosh fructose gets such a bad rap these daze. A little fruitiness never hurt anyone c'mon.2
-
Fruit is fine. Smoothies are fine. The only thing you really need to lose weight is an energy deficit.4
-
brittanystebbins95 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
Blitzing. Chopping it into tiny pieces. You mean kind of like chewing? That thing our bodies do naturally, in order to start the digestion process? Fructose is fructose.
If I'm wrong, please educate me. I don't understand how putting fruit into a processor and mixing it into a smoothie is any different than chewing it.
Of all the things people shouldn't be eating, fruit smoothies aren't at the top of the list.
Edit to add I'm agreeing with you.
5 -
Man, if vshred/Vince youtube ads say fruit is killing your gains, by golly it must be true...><.
Brainwashing from a backstreet boy want-to-be washed up model who also gave everyone "solid" science on somatotypes. #Age of internet stupidity
11 -
brittanystebbins95 wrote: »lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
Blitzing. Chopping it into tiny pieces. You mean kind of like chewing? That thing our bodies do naturally, in order to start the digestion process? Fructose is fructose.
If I'm wrong, please educate me. I don't understand how putting fruit into a processor and mixing it into a smoothie is any different than chewing it.
Well, to be fair, you do miss out on that massive 3 or 10 calorie chewing burn.
I'm on Team Fruit here, in case that's unclear. 3
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