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Split from Smoothie lovers
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Posts: 1,933 MFP Staff
This discussion was created from replies split from: Smoothie lovers.
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Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.41
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lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
Why would you avoid fruit if your goal is weight loss?
Fruit is a good source of fibre, vitamins & minerals. Fibre can help you feel full which in turn can help you better maintain a calorie deficit, which is what is needed for weight loss.9 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »
Why would you avoid fruit if your goal is weight loss?
Fruit is a good source of fibre, vitamins & minerals. Fibre can help you feel full which in turn can help you better maintain a calorie deficit, which is what is needed for weight loss.
Fruit is mainly sugar. Yes there are also many health benefits to fruit but all of these can be consumed, without the sugar in the form of vegetables. Avoid the fruit while cutting weight will help regulate your insulin.33 -
If you have a working pancreas, you don't need to regulate insulin as your body naturally does it. Also fruit is low in calories, has fiber and is linked to improved health.
OP,
My smoothies are:
Heavy cream (30g)
1 Scoop of Protein Powder
2 tbsp of unsweetened cocoa
4 oz of almond milk
Im sorry but this is wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_resistance21 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Sorry bro, you are wrong. Not everyone has insulin resistance, even while they are obese.
OP, you can also incorporate things like peanut butter, chia seeds, protein powders, fruits, veggies, oats, etc...
A few sites I use are: www.theproteinchef.co, www.thedietchefs.com, www.delish.com11 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Fruit is mainly sugar. Yes there are also many health benefits to fruit but all of these can be consumed, without the sugar in the form of vegetables. Avoid the fruit while cutting weight will help regulate your insulin.
You know what also has sugar in them? Vegetables.8 -
You know what also has sugar in them? Vegetables.
Man, do you really want to be that person!?
Of course they do, most food does. But fruit or fructose is called nature’s candy for a reason and one piece is more than your daily requirement of sugar. It’s just logic.24 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Man, do you really want to be that person!?
Of course they do, most food does. But fruit or fructose is called nature’s candy for a reason and one piece is more than your daily requirement of sugar. It’s just logic.
Sugar requirements are based on added sugar, not natural. Every health organization states that.13 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Man, do you really want to be that person!?
Of course they do, most food does. But fruit or fructose is called nature’s candy for a reason and one piece is more than your daily requirement of sugar. It’s just logic.
Well given the misinformation you've been posting, yes. I do. Never mind that this all fails to mention that what's important for weight loss is calories, not sugar. And yes, of course there are calories in sugar, but there are also calories in other carbohydrates, protein, etc.
I'm also not sure how you're getting that "one piece" of fruit and/or candy is more than one's daily requirement of sugar. That's not at all logical given the different amounts of sugar in fruit, the wide variety of sizes in fruit, and what constitutes "one piece".13 -
Well given the misinformation you've been posting, yes. I do. Never mind that this all fails to mention that what's important for weight loss is calories, not sugar. And yes, of course there are calories in sugar, but there are also calories in other carbohydrates, protein, etc.
I'm also not sure how you're getting that "one piece" of fruit and/or candy is more than one's daily requirement of sugar. That's not at all logical given the different amounts of sugar in fruit, the wide variety of sizes in fruit, and what constitutes "one piece".
Ok first of all, never said calories were not the most important. They are. Secondly i was suggesting to not consume fruit in smoothies because it is easily over consumed, it changes the way and speed at which the body processes the sugar (causing that post sugar crash where people tend to binge after)
I am not forgetting the other macro's, in fact i am taking those into consideration ...
there is roughly 23 grams of sugar in a large apple.
Recommended daily amounts of sugar:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
in an average male that doesn't leave you much space in the typical diet.
on top of this, people often consume smoothies first thing in the morning, spiking your insulin which is counter productive.
i could go on if you want. i have plenty more information.
23 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Ok first of all, never said calories were not the most important. They are. Secondly i was suggesting to not consume fruit in smoothies because it is easily over consumed, it changes the way and speed at which the body processes the sugar (causing that post sugar crash where people tend to binge after)
I am not forgetting the other macro's, in fact i am taking those into consideration ...
there is roughly 23 grams of sugar in a large apple.
Recommended daily amounts of sugar:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
in an average male that doesn't leave you much space in the typical diet.
on top of this, people often consume smoothies first thing in the morning, spiking your insulin which is counter productive.
i could go on if you want. i have plenty more information.
Quote from the link you just posted "The WHO guideline does not refer to the sugars in fresh fruits and vegetables, and sugars naturally present in milk, because there is no reported evidence of adverse effects of consuming these sugars."
It's been pointed out to you several times that the recommendations for sugar intake are for added sugars.16 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Ok first of all, never said calories were not the most important. They are. Secondly i was suggesting to not consume fruit in smoothies because it is easily over consumed, it changes the way and speed at which the body processes the sugar (causing that post sugar crash where people tend to binge after)
I am not forgetting the other macro's, in fact i am taking those into consideration ...
there is roughly 23 grams of sugar in a large apple.
Recommended daily amounts of sugar:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
in an average male that doesn't leave you much space in the typical diet.
on top of this, people often consume smoothies first thing in the morning, spiking your insulin which is counter productive.
i could go on if you want. i have plenty more information.
From your link:
The WHO guideline does not refer to the sugars in fresh fruits and vegetables, and sugars naturally present in milk, because there is no reported evidence of adverse effects of consuming these sugars.8 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Ok first of all, never said calories were not the most important. They are. Secondly i was suggesting to not consume fruit in smoothies because it is easily over consumed, it changes the way and speed at which the body processes the sugar (causing that post sugar crash where people tend to binge after)
I am not forgetting the other macro's, in fact i am taking those into consideration ...
there is roughly 23 grams of sugar in a large apple.
Recommended daily amounts of sugar:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
in an average male that doesn't leave you much space in the typical diet.
on top of this, people often consume smoothies first thing in the morning, spiking your insulin which is counter productive.
i could go on if you want. i have plenty more information.
I have never had a sugar crash after consuming a smoothie. Not even the fruitiest mango and peach based smoothie (I dislike banana smoothies). Not even when I make them with lots of fresh watermelon, as well as strawberries. IME (although not saying this is true for all), it takes a long time to consume a smoothie with the ingredients I use, and thus feels just as substantial as a regular eaten breakfast (with the same amount of fruit or otherwise). Juice would be different since the amount of juice that would result from the same ingredients would be tiny and the fiber would be largely gone.
The WHO's recommendation is ideally less than 5% of total cals from ADDED sugar. Fruit does not have ANY added sugar, so how can it take up your recommended daily added sugar from the WHO?
Btw, I had fruit in my smoothie this morning, and it still had only 13 g of sugar with 9.5 g of fiber (300 cal, 29 g total carbs, 15 g of fat, 21 g of protein).6 -
From your link:
The WHO guideline does not refer to the sugars in fresh fruits and vegetables, and sugars naturally present in milk, because there is no reported evidence of adverse effects of consuming these sugars.
Sugar is sugar. It doesn’t matter where it comes from if you over consume sugar it will causing all kinds of problems.
People ignore sugar from carbohydrates,
Vegetables and milk but it all counts.
Your body will break sugar down slower or faster depending on how you consume it but essentially a gram of sugar is a gram where ever it comes from.
You can chose to ignore what I’m saying but those of you who are obese and can’t seem to lose the weight on a calorie controlled diet, then reducing your sugar intake is a great place to start.
24 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Sugar is sugar. It doesn’t matter where it comes from if you over consume sugar it will causing all kinds of problems.
People ignore sugar from carbohydrates,
Vegetables and milk but it all counts.
Your body will break sugar down slower or faster depending on how you consume it but essentially a gram of sugar is a gram where ever it comes from.
You can chose to ignore what I’m saying but those of you who are obese and can’t seem to lose the weight on a calorie controlled diet, then reducing your sugar intake is a great place to start.
So what you're saying is that you know better than the WHO guidelines that you (inaccurately) referred to?15 -
I have never had a sugar crash after consuming a smoothie. Not even the fruitiest mango and peach based smoothie (I dislike banana smoothies). Not even when I make them with lots of fresh watermelon, as well as strawberries. IME (although not saying this is true for all), it takes a long time to consume a smoothie with the ingredients I use, and thus feels just as substantial as a regular eaten breakfast (with the same amount of fruit or otherwise). Juice would be different since the amount of juice that would result from the same ingredients would be tiny and the fiber would be largely gone.
The WHO's recommendation is ideally less than 5% of total cals from ADDED sugar. Fruit does not have ANY added sugar, so how can it take up your recommended daily added sugar from the WHO?
Btw, I had fruit in my smoothie this morning, and it still had only 13 g of sugar with 9.5 g of fiber (300 cal, 29 g total carbs, 15 g of fat, 21 g of protein).
It’s great for you that you can consume sugar and not have an issues with your weight. If you don’t have trouble then cutting sugar isn’t necessary for you, unless you want to reduce inflammation from the body and reduce other health risks.
I honestly have the best intentions with the information I am offering. Maybe look into the work done by Dr Rhonda Patrick, she has a huge amount of information into sugar and its effects on the human body.
I am only offering this advice because I have had many clients that couldn’t lose the weight until they cut the fruit out. You get plenty of sugar from everything else.15 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Sugar is sugar. It doesn’t matter where it comes from if you over consume sugar it will causing all kinds of problems.
People ignore sugar from carbohydrates,
Vegetables and milk but it all counts.
Your body will break sugar down slower or faster depending on how you consume it but essentially a gram of sugar is a gram where ever it comes from.
You can chose to ignore what I’m saying but those of you who are obese and can’t seem to lose the weight on a calorie controlled diet, then reducing your sugar intake is a great place to start.
Let me get this straight? You are arguing against the content of the link, that you posted, to support your own argument?
For people who can't seem to lose weight on a calorie controlled diet, most likely they aren't in a calorie deficit, because they are massively underestimating how much they are eating and their portion sizes. Accurately logging their food intake would be a great place to start because that's where the problem lies most of the time.
Here's an example for you:
11 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
When I was in Costa Rico for six weeks I ate tropical fruit all day long and dropped a size without even trying. I observed far less obese local people there than I do in the US.
I also spent two years in another place with a lot of tropical fruit - Okinawa - and don't recall any obese locals there.11 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »
Let me get this straight? You are arguing against the content of the link, that you posted, to support your own argument?
For people who can't seem to lose weight on a calorie controlled diet, most likely they aren't in a calorie deficit, because they are massively underestimating how much they are eating and their portion sizes. Accurately logging their food intake would be a great place to start because that's where the problem lies most of the time.
Here's an example for you:
NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.28 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Ok first of all, never said calories were not the most important. They are. Secondly i was suggesting to not consume fruit in smoothies because it is easily over consumed, it changes the way and speed at which the body processes the sugar (causing that post sugar crash where people tend to binge after)
I am not forgetting the other macro's, in fact i am taking those into consideration ...
there is roughly 23 grams of sugar in a large apple.
Recommended daily amounts of sugar:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
in an average male that doesn't leave you much space in the typical diet.
on top of this, people often consume smoothies first thing in the morning, spiking your insulin which is counter productive.
i could go on if you want. i have plenty more information.
I used to get a sugar crash years ago when I juiced, but that was mostly carrots and other veggies, not a lot (if any) fruit.
I avoid that these days by making smoothies, which retains the fiber, and adding fat and protein.
Apple juice will give me a sugar crash, but not whole apples. However, I don't find apples especially filling unless I pair them with a source of protein and fat, like cheese and/or peanut butter.3 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
ETA... You mentioned Dr Rhonda Patrick, here's a lovely smoothie recipe from herself, with not just one bit of fruit but five and explanations for why they were included.:
https://www.foundmyfitness.com/reports/micronutrient-smoothie.pdf
I'd suggest if you're going to throw around misinformation, you at least cite some sources that don't contradict what you're saying.13 -
If someone has issues involving insulin or "hormonal challenges" their first port of call needs to be an endocrinologist, not you. And again, you seem to be arguing against a link that you originally used to attempt to prove pointlukejoycePT wrote: »
NO. Calories is one part of this. There are many people who no matter how little they eat don’t lose fat. Whether that’s because of insulin issues, imbalances in the gut (leaky gut) etc or hormonal challenges. You can’t say it’s a simple as caloric intake, it just isn’t.6 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »
Back to the main point you were making though about the apple/sugar recommendation - are you saying you're more informed on this than the WHO (who you were quoting)?
Leaky Gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis.
It is as simple as calorie intake, it's the laws of physics, you can't create energy out of nothing.
What may affect weight loss is that as a result of hormonal challenges appetite increases/activity level drops and for some people their metabolism may be affected, but that doesn't exempt them from CICO. It just means one side of the equation (the CO) is different than for someone else of their stats. That's not to say it's not more challenging for them, but it's not impossible.
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.29 -
If someone has issues involving insulin or "hormonal challenges" their first port of call needs to be an endocrinologist, not you. And again, you seem to be arguing against a link that you originally used to attempt to prove point
Yeh because doctors know so much about nutrition...15 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »
Did you just say that leaky gut is not a recognised medical diagnosis?! Wow.
Honestly I’m out. You’re more concerned with winning an argument that you obviously have no training in. I could present you with gold and you’d still call it stone.
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
9 -
Why would I expect you to know more about nutrition than a doctor? This is especially true given that doctors have more resources than you do (I'm assuming you aren't a doctor) - whether or not they take advantage of those resources is another matter mind you.lukejoycePT wrote: »
Yeh because doctors know so much about nutrition...
I would expect an endocrinologist to know significantly more about hormones than you do. Again, note your repeated references to insulin and "hormonal challenges".6 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »
If you look it up with any national medical service - UK, US, Canada, they clearly state they don't recognise it as a medical diagnosis. So yes that's what I said.
Still ignoring that you're contradicting your own sources I see. Farewell!
Yes because Medicine is up to date. Do you know how many years it take before a medical study that is proven takes to circulate into the medical system? About 10years.
And no I’m not ignoring it, you have just been cherry picking my points throughout to suit your argument.15 -
Why would I expect you to know more about nutrition than a doctor? This is especially true given that doctors have more resources than you do (I'm assuming you aren't a doctor) - whether or not they take advantage of those resources is another matter mind you.
I would expect an endocrinologist to know significantly more about hormones than you do. Again, note your repeated references to insulin and "hormonal challenges".
Sadly, doctors have little knowledge of nutrition. They normally jump onto medication and slap a band aid onto a problem instead of looking to diet first. This is usually because there is a lack of training and because medicine is big business. There is no money in curing people.
And yes an endocrinologist knows a huge amount about hormones, but again little knowledge on nutrition.
I know this to be the case as my mother has an issue with a hormone imbalance from giving birth to me, she was given no help with her diet. Instead given medication which made her sicker and more over weight, until she quit having sugar in her diet. And she followed all the calorie controlled diets going but nothing worked.
But hey, I know nothing. I have no experience in these matters as I am not as you say a qualified doctor.19 -
lukejoycePT wrote: »Rule of thumb with smoothies is to avoid using fruit. When you blitz fruit it changes the way your body processes the fructose. If your goal is to lose weight i would avoid fruit all together.
lol wut7 -
I like these ncbi folks - they say things I can understand.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20022464OBJECTIVE:
Fruit and vegetable consumption is an important part of a healthy diet and assumed to aid in the reduction of energy intake and body weight. Fruits and vegetables may display differential effects on weight and weight loss; however, the effects of the two food groups have rarely been investigated separately.
METHODS:
The present study focused on the effects of fruit consumption on body weight and weight loss in a sample of 77 overweight and obese dieters enrolled in an intervention program. Food consumption was assessed at baseline by food diaries and after the introduction of nutrition software through electronic food records. Body weight and additional physiologic outcomes were assessed three times, once before the intervention and again at the 3- and 6-mo follow-ups.
RESULTS:
Vegetable and fruit consumption differed in their associations with body weight and weight loss. Although vegetable consumption increased as a result of the intervention (P<0.01), fruit consumption did not. However, only fruit consumption was associated with body mass index, showing an inverse relation with body weight in cross-sectional and longitudinal analyses (r=-0.27 to -0.44). The relation between fruit consumption and body weight remained significant after controlling for age, gender, physical activity level, and daily macronutrient consumption (DeltaR(2)=0.06-0.13). Further, increases in fruit consumption were associated with subsequent weight loss, controlling for the same covariates (DeltaR(2)=0.05-0.07).
CONCLUSION:
The results indicate unique contributions of fruit consumption to the management of body weight and indicate that a separation of effects for fruit and vegetable food groups may be warranted.
Personally I love my fruits and don't eat enough. I still get large amounts of sugars per day though for what it's worth.9
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