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Keto Slim RX
hbs2095
Posts: 1 Member
in Debate Club
People are currently discussing “Sarah’s Discovery” and using Keto Slim Rx as a dietary supplement to lose weight. Is this product safe? What are arguments against using this weight loss pill? Any ingredients that may cause harm?
7
Replies
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Which people? Facebook or Instagram 'influencers' paid to flog a product?
The only thing such a pill is good for for is to lose weight from your wallet. It's it is legal it doesn't work, if it works it isn't legal.12 -
Looks like it's just another "appetite suppressant". Caffeine is a pretty effective alternative, and is available for MUCH cheaper.
I make cold brew coffee and if I get hungry in the afternoon and I don't want to blow my calories on a snack, I just have another cup of that.5 -
There is an old saying, "If it works it's not legal and if it's legal it doesn't work." And as bpetrosky said, which people are talking about this? Never heard of it.2
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Wow, so much woo mixed in with so many buzzwords
https://www.piop.net/stanford-student-sarah-johnson-weight-loss-pills-supplement/
It looks like it's our old friend garcinia cambogia which you combine with our even older friend ACV.
“I was shocked when I discovered SF Keto 180! It helped me get in perfect shape so quickly. I didn't even need to diet or exercise at all. I also found that if you combine it with apple cider vinegar, it works even quicker!"
What's disturbing is that supposedly this woman did her "research" on Stanford's dime, and is now using that connection to hawk her snake oil.5 -
People are currently discussing “Sarah’s Discovery” and using Keto Slim Rx as a dietary supplement to lose weight. Is this product safe? What are arguments against using this weight loss pill? Any ingredients that may cause harm?
Argument against:
They're expensive and do absolutely nothing to help you. Losing weight is free, and you'll probably save money in the long term buying less food.
Argument for:
You have too much money and don't want to lose weight.11 -
NorthCascades wrote: »People are currently discussing “Sarah’s Discovery” and using Keto Slim Rx as a dietary supplement to lose weight. Is this product safe? What are arguments against using this weight loss pill? Any ingredients that may cause harm?
Argument against:
They're expensive and do absolutely nothing to help you. Losing weight is free, and you'll probably save money in the long term buying less food.
Argument for:
You have too much money and don't want to lose weight.
That is a good argument! I was debating between these pills and just setting the money on fire to watch it burn, but I'm leaning towards the pills now.
6 -
The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.19
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GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
Lying is a powerful solution to the truth?12 -
So approve everything because it "might" work...somehow?GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
There's a limit to what the placebo effect can actually do.
While placebo effects could encourage more activity or alter behavior about food, they'll never cause weight loss themselves.
Researchers are lucky that is true because dietary interventions would become a nightmare if they required double blind interventions.6 -
Out of morbid curiosity I googled sarah's discovery and found this Gizmodo article. It describes a scheme that uses coordinated fake Twitter accounts with fake profile using stolen pictures, then buys retweets from more established accounts with more followers to amplify them. They spam post threads of complex testimonial stories and fake news sites touting certain supplements like the one mentioned in the OP.
I thought I had seen how low some of the bottom feeders in the supplement industry would go, and I was wrong once again.
https://gizmodo.com/the-bizarre-scheme-using-viral-abuse-stories-and-stolen-182917396412 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
And yet we have so many placebo cures for weight loss like this one, but more people are overweight every year.5 -
NorthCascades wrote: »People are currently discussing “Sarah’s Discovery” and using Keto Slim Rx as a dietary supplement to lose weight. Is this product safe? What are arguments against using this weight loss pill? Any ingredients that may cause harm?
Argument against:
They're expensive and do absolutely nothing to help you. Losing weight is free, and you'll probably save money in the long term buying less food.
Argument for:
You have too much money and don't want to lose weight.
That is a good argument! I was debating between these pills and just setting the money on fire to watch it burn, but I'm leaning towards the pills now.
That was hilarious!2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
The placebo effect is certainly a real thing in medicine which is why real studies require it as part a control for medical research. Particularly fir conditions that can be influenced by an emotional state. But one thing a placebo cannot do is cause pounds to magically burn off fat. The body doesn't work that way.
Some people may take these pills and also do others actions that cause them to lose weight (diet and exercise) and think the pill is responsible. But nobody can just sit at home and burn fat with the power of their mind.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
The placebo effect is certainly a real thing in medicine which is why real studies require it as part a control for medical research. Particularly fir conditions that can be influenced by an emotional state. But one thing a placebo cannot do is cause pounds to magically burn off fat. The body doesn't work that way.
Some people may take these pills and also do others actions that cause them to lose weight (diet and exercise) and think the pill is responsible. But nobody can just sit at home and burn fat with the power of their mind.
Mike that was my thought once but with the placebo effect being due to quantum mechanics I think the below will put a big question mark on your current thought on the subject.
"The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery."
The Strange Power of The Placebo Effect Explained
https://collective-evolution.com/2018/06/07/the-strange-power-of-the-placebo-effect-explained/
".....A Baylor School of Medicine study, published in 2002 in the New England Journal of Medicine, looked at surgery for patients with severe and debilitating knee pain. Many surgeons know there is no placebo effect in surgery, or so most of them believe. The patients were divided into three groups. The surgeons shaved the damaged cartilage in the knee of one group. For the second group they flushed out the knee joint, removing all of the material believed to be causing inflammation. Both of these processes are the standard surgeries people go through who have severe arthritic knees. The third group received a “fake” surgery, the patients were only sedated and tricked that they actually had the knee surgery. For the patients not really receiving the surgery, the doctors made the incisions and splashed salt water on the knee as they would in normal surgery. They then sewed up the incisions like the real thing and the process was complete. All three groups went through the same rehab process, and the results were astonishing. The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery......"
".....Perhaps this is why more and more people are gravitating towards alternative forms of medicine. As Garth Cook from Scientific American points out:
A growing body of scientific research suggests that our mind can play an important role in healing our body — or in staying healthy in the first place. . . There are now several lines of research suggesting that our mental perception of the world constantly informs and guides our immune system in a way that makes us better able to respond to future threats. That was a sort of ‘aha’ moment for me — where the idea of an entwined mind and body suddenly made more scientific sense than an ephemeral consciousness that’s somehow separated from our physical selves.
Neuroscientist Fabrizio Benedetti explains:
There isn’t just one placebo effect, but many. Placebo painkillers can trigger the release of natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Patients with Parkinson’s disease respond to placebos with a flood of dopamine. Fake oxygen, given to someone at altitude, has been shown to cut levels of neurotransmitters called prostaglandins (which dilate blood vessels, among other things, and are responsible for many of the symptoms of altitude sickness....."
".....So what does this mean?
It means that through the power of belief, your biological body can react in a necessary way to target whatever ailment you are experiencing. Thoughts, feelings, and emotions are directly responsible for changing your biology....."16 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
The placebo effect is certainly a real thing in medicine which is why real studies require it as part a control for medical research. Particularly fir conditions that can be influenced by an emotional state. But one thing a placebo cannot do is cause pounds to magically burn off fat. The body doesn't work that way.
Some people may take these pills and also do others actions that cause them to lose weight (diet and exercise) and think the pill is responsible. But nobody can just sit at home and burn fat with the power of their mind.
Mike that was my thought once but with the placebo effect being due to quantum mechanics I think the below will put a big question mark on your current thought on the subject.
Citation needed"The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery."
The Strange Power of The Placebo Effect Explained
https://collective-evolution.com/2018/06/07/the-strange-power-of-the-placebo-effect-explained/
Congratulations! You have managed to find the least reputable site on the net
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Collective_Evolution
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/collective-evolution/
"Overall, we rate Collective-Evolution a quackery level pseudoscience website based on promoting miracle cures, anti-vaxx propaganda and 9/11 conspiracies."13 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
The placebo effect is certainly a real thing in medicine which is why real studies require it as part a control for medical research. Particularly fir conditions that can be influenced by an emotional state. But one thing a placebo cannot do is cause pounds to magically burn off fat. The body doesn't work that way.
Some people may take these pills and also do others actions that cause them to lose weight (diet and exercise) and think the pill is responsible. But nobody can just sit at home and burn fat with the power of their mind.
Mike that was my thought once but with the placebo effect being due to quantum mechanics
lol wut
You could describe World War 2 in terms of nothing but subatomic particles ... it would be scientifically accurate, but completely meaningless.10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
When I was a child, AIDS was a death sentence.
We now have drugs that allow a person with HIV or AIDS to live a normal human lifespan. This is a modern miracle, life is precious and irreplaceable.
Why did so many people for die horrible, gruesome deaths for decades when they could have just taken a placebo or done keto?14 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
The placebo effect is certainly a real thing in medicine which is why real studies require it as part a control for medical research. Particularly fir conditions that can be influenced by an emotional state. But one thing a placebo cannot do is cause pounds to magically burn off fat. The body doesn't work that way.
Some people may take these pills and also do others actions that cause them to lose weight (diet and exercise) and think the pill is responsible. But nobody can just sit at home and burn fat with the power of their mind.
Mike that was my thought once but with the placebo effect being due to quantum mechanics I think the below will put a big question mark on your current thought on the subject.
"The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery."
The Strange Power of The Placebo Effect Explained
https://collective-evolution.com/2018/06/07/the-strange-power-of-the-placebo-effect-explained/
".....A Baylor School of Medicine study, published in 2002 in the New England Journal of Medicine, looked at surgery for patients with severe and debilitating knee pain. Many surgeons know there is no placebo effect in surgery, or so most of them believe. The patients were divided into three groups. The surgeons shaved the damaged cartilage in the knee of one group. For the second group they flushed out the knee joint, removing all of the material believed to be causing inflammation. Both of these processes are the standard surgeries people go through who have severe arthritic knees. The third group received a “fake” surgery, the patients were only sedated and tricked that they actually had the knee surgery. For the patients not really receiving the surgery, the doctors made the incisions and splashed salt water on the knee as they would in normal surgery. They then sewed up the incisions like the real thing and the process was complete. All three groups went through the same rehab process, and the results were astonishing. The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery......"
".....Perhaps this is why more and more people are gravitating towards alternative forms of medicine. As Garth Cook from Scientific American points out:
A growing body of scientific research suggests that our mind can play an important role in healing our body — or in staying healthy in the first place. . . There are now several lines of research suggesting that our mental perception of the world constantly informs and guides our immune system in a way that makes us better able to respond to future threats. That was a sort of ‘aha’ moment for me — where the idea of an entwined mind and body suddenly made more scientific sense than an ephemeral consciousness that’s somehow separated from our physical selves.
Neuroscientist Fabrizio Benedetti explains:
There isn’t just one placebo effect, but many. Placebo painkillers can trigger the release of natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Patients with Parkinson’s disease respond to placebos with a flood of dopamine. Fake oxygen, given to someone at altitude, has been shown to cut levels of neurotransmitters called prostaglandins (which dilate blood vessels, among other things, and are responsible for many of the symptoms of altitude sickness....."
".....So what does this mean?
It means that through the power of belief, your biological body can react in a necessary way to target whatever ailment you are experiencing. Thoughts, feelings, and emotions are directly responsible for changing your biology....."
The placebo effect is more interesting and complicated than most people realize . . . and I say that as a skeptic and rationalist.
It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting.
I think it's interesting that you're lately heading out to the fringes where interesting and provocative things are being explored scientifically - like placebo effect and human microbiome - then positing all sorts of details that are waybigfar from proven.
You know that sensible people could become intrigued by those things, accurately presented . . . but you understand you're encouraging them to the contrary, I hope?14 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
The placebo effect is certainly a real thing in medicine which is why real studies require it as part a control for medical research. Particularly fir conditions that can be influenced by an emotional state. But one thing a placebo cannot do is cause pounds to magically burn off fat. The body doesn't work that way.
Some people may take these pills and also do others actions that cause them to lose weight (diet and exercise) and think the pill is responsible. But nobody can just sit at home and burn fat with the power of their mind.
Mike that was my thought once but with the placebo effect being due to quantum mechanics I think the below will put a big question mark on your current thought on the subject.
"The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery."
The Strange Power of The Placebo Effect Explained
https://collective-evolution.com/2018/06/07/the-strange-power-of-the-placebo-effect-explained/
".....A Baylor School of Medicine study, published in 2002 in the New England Journal of Medicine, looked at surgery for patients with severe and debilitating knee pain. Many surgeons know there is no placebo effect in surgery, or so most of them believe. The patients were divided into three groups. The surgeons shaved the damaged cartilage in the knee of one group. For the second group they flushed out the knee joint, removing all of the material believed to be causing inflammation. Both of these processes are the standard surgeries people go through who have severe arthritic knees. The third group received a “fake” surgery, the patients were only sedated and tricked that they actually had the knee surgery. For the patients not really receiving the surgery, the doctors made the incisions and splashed salt water on the knee as they would in normal surgery. They then sewed up the incisions like the real thing and the process was complete. All three groups went through the same rehab process, and the results were astonishing. The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery......"
".....Perhaps this is why more and more people are gravitating towards alternative forms of medicine. As Garth Cook from Scientific American points out:
A growing body of scientific research suggests that our mind can play an important role in healing our body — or in staying healthy in the first place. . . There are now several lines of research suggesting that our mental perception of the world constantly informs and guides our immune system in a way that makes us better able to respond to future threats. That was a sort of ‘aha’ moment for me — where the idea of an entwined mind and body suddenly made more scientific sense than an ephemeral consciousness that’s somehow separated from our physical selves.
Neuroscientist Fabrizio Benedetti explains:
There isn’t just one placebo effect, but many. Placebo painkillers can trigger the release of natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Patients with Parkinson’s disease respond to placebos with a flood of dopamine. Fake oxygen, given to someone at altitude, has been shown to cut levels of neurotransmitters called prostaglandins (which dilate blood vessels, among other things, and are responsible for many of the symptoms of altitude sickness....."
".....So what does this mean?
It means that through the power of belief, your biological body can react in a necessary way to target whatever ailment you are experiencing. Thoughts, feelings, and emotions are directly responsible for changing your biology....."
The placebo effect is more interesting and complicated than most people realize . . . and I say that as a skeptic and rationalist.
It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting.
I think it's interesting that you're lately heading out to the fringes where interesting and provocative things are being explored scientifically - like placebo effect and human microbiome - then positing all sorts of details that are waybigfar from proven.
You know that sensible people could become intrigued by those things, accurately presented . . . but you understand you're encouraging them to the contrary, I hope?
Thank you for posting this while I was out at farmers market/grocery shopping so I didn't have to
6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
The placebo effect is certainly a real thing in medicine which is why real studies require it as part a control for medical research. Particularly fir conditions that can be influenced by an emotional state. But one thing a placebo cannot do is cause pounds to magically burn off fat. The body doesn't work that way.
Some people may take these pills and also do others actions that cause them to lose weight (diet and exercise) and think the pill is responsible. But nobody can just sit at home and burn fat with the power of their mind.
Mike that was my thought once but with the placebo effect being due to quantum mechanics I think the below will put a big question mark on your current thought on the subject.
"The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery."
The Strange Power of The Placebo Effect Explained
https://collective-evolution.com/2018/06/07/the-strange-power-of-the-placebo-effect-explained/
".....A Baylor School of Medicine study, published in 2002 in the New England Journal of Medicine, looked at surgery for patients with severe and debilitating knee pain. Many surgeons know there is no placebo effect in surgery, or so most of them believe. The patients were divided into three groups. The surgeons shaved the damaged cartilage in the knee of one group. For the second group they flushed out the knee joint, removing all of the material believed to be causing inflammation. Both of these processes are the standard surgeries people go through who have severe arthritic knees. The third group received a “fake” surgery, the patients were only sedated and tricked that they actually had the knee surgery. For the patients not really receiving the surgery, the doctors made the incisions and splashed salt water on the knee as they would in normal surgery. They then sewed up the incisions like the real thing and the process was complete. All three groups went through the same rehab process, and the results were astonishing. The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery......"
".....Perhaps this is why more and more people are gravitating towards alternative forms of medicine. As Garth Cook from Scientific American points out:
A growing body of scientific research suggests that our mind can play an important role in healing our body — or in staying healthy in the first place. . . There are now several lines of research suggesting that our mental perception of the world constantly informs and guides our immune system in a way that makes us better able to respond to future threats. That was a sort of ‘aha’ moment for me — where the idea of an entwined mind and body suddenly made more scientific sense than an ephemeral consciousness that’s somehow separated from our physical selves.
Neuroscientist Fabrizio Benedetti explains:
There isn’t just one placebo effect, but many. Placebo painkillers can trigger the release of natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Patients with Parkinson’s disease respond to placebos with a flood of dopamine. Fake oxygen, given to someone at altitude, has been shown to cut levels of neurotransmitters called prostaglandins (which dilate blood vessels, among other things, and are responsible for many of the symptoms of altitude sickness....."
".....So what does this mean?
It means that through the power of belief, your biological body can react in a necessary way to target whatever ailment you are experiencing. Thoughts, feelings, and emotions are directly responsible for changing your biology....."
The placebo effect is more interesting and complicated than most people realize . . . and I say that as a skeptic and rationalist.
It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting.
I think it's interesting that you're lately heading out to the fringes where interesting and provocative things are being explored scientifically - like placebo effect and human microbiome - then positing all sorts of details that are waybigfar from proven.
You know that sensible people could become intrigued by those things, accurately presented . . . but you understand you're encouraging them to the contrary, I hope?
You know in no way did I suggest anything because did not write what I posted but it was posted from a peer reviewed source. It concerns me that anyone would make non true statements to mislead others who might take your state, "It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting." as being a factual statement.
There is NOTHING that is magical period. A Zippo lighter it not magical but if one did not understand the technology might call it magical. Magic just a term used by people that do not understand the science behind what they are calling magical.
Fear of the unproven is not a trait of the scientific mind. Instead of fear the unproven is just another mountain to conquer.
The placebo effect has been discussed in science circles for a couple hundred years and fully accepted as settled science for the last 75 years as you know or can read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_in_history
As to the subject you raised about human microbiome the gut-brain axis discussions have been around for a while but it just recent months these discussions are popping up in news feeds more and more. Many of us just never thought about our gut brain but did talk about it as in saying, "I just had this 'gut' feeling.
https://sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245223171730012X
9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
The placebo effect is certainly a real thing in medicine which is why real studies require it as part a control for medical research. Particularly fir conditions that can be influenced by an emotional state. But one thing a placebo cannot do is cause pounds to magically burn off fat. The body doesn't work that way.
Some people may take these pills and also do others actions that cause them to lose weight (diet and exercise) and think the pill is responsible. But nobody can just sit at home and burn fat with the power of their mind.
Mike that was my thought once but with the placebo effect being due to quantum mechanics I think the below will put a big question mark on your current thought on the subject.
"The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery."
The Strange Power of The Placebo Effect Explained
https://collective-evolution.com/2018/06/07/the-strange-power-of-the-placebo-effect-explained/
".....A Baylor School of Medicine study, published in 2002 in the New England Journal of Medicine, looked at surgery for patients with severe and debilitating knee pain. Many surgeons know there is no placebo effect in surgery, or so most of them believe. The patients were divided into three groups. The surgeons shaved the damaged cartilage in the knee of one group. For the second group they flushed out the knee joint, removing all of the material believed to be causing inflammation. Both of these processes are the standard surgeries people go through who have severe arthritic knees. The third group received a “fake” surgery, the patients were only sedated and tricked that they actually had the knee surgery. For the patients not really receiving the surgery, the doctors made the incisions and splashed salt water on the knee as they would in normal surgery. They then sewed up the incisions like the real thing and the process was complete. All three groups went through the same rehab process, and the results were astonishing. The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery......"
".....Perhaps this is why more and more people are gravitating towards alternative forms of medicine. As Garth Cook from Scientific American points out:
A growing body of scientific research suggests that our mind can play an important role in healing our body — or in staying healthy in the first place. . . There are now several lines of research suggesting that our mental perception of the world constantly informs and guides our immune system in a way that makes us better able to respond to future threats. That was a sort of ‘aha’ moment for me — where the idea of an entwined mind and body suddenly made more scientific sense than an ephemeral consciousness that’s somehow separated from our physical selves.
Neuroscientist Fabrizio Benedetti explains:
There isn’t just one placebo effect, but many. Placebo painkillers can trigger the release of natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Patients with Parkinson’s disease respond to placebos with a flood of dopamine. Fake oxygen, given to someone at altitude, has been shown to cut levels of neurotransmitters called prostaglandins (which dilate blood vessels, among other things, and are responsible for many of the symptoms of altitude sickness....."
".....So what does this mean?
It means that through the power of belief, your biological body can react in a necessary way to target whatever ailment you are experiencing. Thoughts, feelings, and emotions are directly responsible for changing your biology....."
The placebo effect is more interesting and complicated than most people realize . . . and I say that as a skeptic and rationalist.
It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting.
I think it's interesting that you're lately heading out to the fringes where interesting and provocative things are being explored scientifically - like placebo effect and human microbiome - then positing all sorts of details that are waybigfar from proven.
You know that sensible people could become intrigued by those things, accurately presented . . . but you understand you're encouraging them to the contrary, I hope?
You know in no way did I suggest anything because did not write what I posted but it was posted from a peer reviewed source. It concerns me that anyone would make non true statements to mislead others who might take your state, "It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting." as being a factual statement.
There is NOTHING that is magical period. A Zippo lighter it not magical but if one did not understand the technology might call it magical. Magic just a term used by people that do not understand the science behind what they are calling magical.
Fear of the unproven is not a trait of the scientific mind. Instead of fear the unproven is just another mountain to conquer.
The placebo effect has been discussed in science circles for a couple hundred years and fully accepted as settled science for the last 75 years as you know or can read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_in_history
As to the subject you raised about human microbiome the gut-brain axis discussions have been around for a while but it just recent months these discussions are popping up in news feeds more and more. Many of us just never thought about our gut brain but did talk about it as in saying, "I just had this 'gut' feeling.
https://sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245223171730012X
This is not the first thread on MFP I've ever read; it's not the first on which you've commented.8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
The placebo effect is certainly a real thing in medicine which is why real studies require it as part a control for medical research. Particularly fir conditions that can be influenced by an emotional state. But one thing a placebo cannot do is cause pounds to magically burn off fat. The body doesn't work that way.
Some people may take these pills and also do others actions that cause them to lose weight (diet and exercise) and think the pill is responsible. But nobody can just sit at home and burn fat with the power of their mind.
Mike that was my thought once but with the placebo effect being due to quantum mechanics I think the below will put a big question mark on your current thought on the subject.
"The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery."
The Strange Power of The Placebo Effect Explained
https://collective-evolution.com/2018/06/07/the-strange-power-of-the-placebo-effect-explained/
".....A Baylor School of Medicine study, published in 2002 in the New England Journal of Medicine, looked at surgery for patients with severe and debilitating knee pain. Many surgeons know there is no placebo effect in surgery, or so most of them believe. The patients were divided into three groups. The surgeons shaved the damaged cartilage in the knee of one group. For the second group they flushed out the knee joint, removing all of the material believed to be causing inflammation. Both of these processes are the standard surgeries people go through who have severe arthritic knees. The third group received a “fake” surgery, the patients were only sedated and tricked that they actually had the knee surgery. For the patients not really receiving the surgery, the doctors made the incisions and splashed salt water on the knee as they would in normal surgery. They then sewed up the incisions like the real thing and the process was complete. All three groups went through the same rehab process, and the results were astonishing. The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery......"
".....Perhaps this is why more and more people are gravitating towards alternative forms of medicine. As Garth Cook from Scientific American points out:
A growing body of scientific research suggests that our mind can play an important role in healing our body — or in staying healthy in the first place. . . There are now several lines of research suggesting that our mental perception of the world constantly informs and guides our immune system in a way that makes us better able to respond to future threats. That was a sort of ‘aha’ moment for me — where the idea of an entwined mind and body suddenly made more scientific sense than an ephemeral consciousness that’s somehow separated from our physical selves.
Neuroscientist Fabrizio Benedetti explains:
There isn’t just one placebo effect, but many. Placebo painkillers can trigger the release of natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Patients with Parkinson’s disease respond to placebos with a flood of dopamine. Fake oxygen, given to someone at altitude, has been shown to cut levels of neurotransmitters called prostaglandins (which dilate blood vessels, among other things, and are responsible for many of the symptoms of altitude sickness....."
".....So what does this mean?
It means that through the power of belief, your biological body can react in a necessary way to target whatever ailment you are experiencing. Thoughts, feelings, and emotions are directly responsible for changing your biology....."
The placebo effect is more interesting and complicated than most people realize . . . and I say that as a skeptic and rationalist.
It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting.
I think it's interesting that you're lately heading out to the fringes where interesting and provocative things are being explored scientifically - like placebo effect and human microbiome - then positing all sorts of details that are waybigfar from proven.
You know that sensible people could become intrigued by those things, accurately presented . . . but you understand you're encouraging them to the contrary, I hope?
You know in no way did I suggest anything because did not write what I posted but it was posted from a peer reviewed source. It concerns me that anyone would make non true statements to mislead others who might take your state, "It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting." as being a factual statement.
There is NOTHING that is magical period. A Zippo lighter it not magical but if one did not understand the technology might call it magical. Magic just a term used by people that do not understand the science behind what they are calling magical.
Fear of the unproven is not a trait of the scientific mind. Instead of fear the unproven is just another mountain to conquer.
The placebo effect has been discussed in science circles for a couple hundred years and fully accepted as settled science for the last 75 years as you know or can read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_in_history
As to the subject you raised about human microbiome the gut-brain axis discussions have been around for a while but it just recent months these discussions are popping up in news feeds more and more. Many of us just never thought about our gut brain but did talk about it as in saying, "I just had this 'gut' feeling.
https://sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245223171730012X
This is not the first thread on MFP I've ever read; it's not the first on which you've commented.
True. Just do not continue to post remarks about me that are not factual going forward.
I understand it is not simple to understand how a 'fake' knee surgery can give the same results as an AMA approved knee surgery nor do I claim I understand it at a quantum level. That was back in 2002 as well.
Quantum Mechanics does explain the possibilities of so called miracles and I find that interesting.
What I experience in the way of major across the board health improvements after starting Keto in Oct 2014 to avoid the doctors plan for me to start Enbrel injections in Nov 2014 was very exciting and welcomed but has I did more and more research I had a sense the ketones played little if any part for my good pain management, resolving of 40 years of life defining IBS, prediabetic glucose levels, blood pressure, automatically managing my weight, etc.
I do not know the source of the hunch that I would get good pain management from the Ankylosing Spondylitis pain of the prior 40 years if I would stop eating food containing added sugar and or any form of any grain. It was so strong of a hunch that I knew it was the solution I had been in search of to side step the cancer risk associated with taking Enbrel injections. I did it and it is still working well in 2019.
So over the past 5 years I have been trying to learn why keto worked like 'magic' knowing with my science background there is not true magic/miracles in healthcare.
The placebo effect could have been a factor medically speaking and I still do not rule that out especially in light of all the quantum mechanics news articles we read today from the world of medical research.
When the nonstop articles started appearing about the gut-brain axis in human health about our gut microbiome the Keto factor clicked as a real possibility. While calories are always a factor the sources of calories we know today can be the tail that wags the dog of human health more than ever before.
As it became clear how keto seems to steer the gut microbiome towards better health vs a high carb high fat diet the clicking got louder.
Now that I understand how Keto resolved my cravings (that was coming from my gut to my brain apparently) I am fine with accepting the success of keto for a better way of life in my case.
My hunch to cut out sweeteners and all forms of grains and their derivatives came from somewhere outside of me as does all knowledge I expect. Was an overwhelming hunch to stop eating food containing added sugars and or any form or grain a feature of Quantum Mechanics in my case?9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
The placebo effect is certainly a real thing in medicine which is why real studies require it as part a control for medical research. Particularly fir conditions that can be influenced by an emotional state. But one thing a placebo cannot do is cause pounds to magically burn off fat. The body doesn't work that way.
Some people may take these pills and also do others actions that cause them to lose weight (diet and exercise) and think the pill is responsible. But nobody can just sit at home and burn fat with the power of their mind.
Mike that was my thought once but with the placebo effect being due to quantum mechanics I think the below will put a big question mark on your current thought on the subject.
"The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery."
The Strange Power of The Placebo Effect Explained
https://collective-evolution.com/2018/06/07/the-strange-power-of-the-placebo-effect-explained/
".....A Baylor School of Medicine study, published in 2002 in the New England Journal of Medicine, looked at surgery for patients with severe and debilitating knee pain. Many surgeons know there is no placebo effect in surgery, or so most of them believe. The patients were divided into three groups. The surgeons shaved the damaged cartilage in the knee of one group. For the second group they flushed out the knee joint, removing all of the material believed to be causing inflammation. Both of these processes are the standard surgeries people go through who have severe arthritic knees. The third group received a “fake” surgery, the patients were only sedated and tricked that they actually had the knee surgery. For the patients not really receiving the surgery, the doctors made the incisions and splashed salt water on the knee as they would in normal surgery. They then sewed up the incisions like the real thing and the process was complete. All three groups went through the same rehab process, and the results were astonishing. The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery......"
".....Perhaps this is why more and more people are gravitating towards alternative forms of medicine. As Garth Cook from Scientific American points out:
A growing body of scientific research suggests that our mind can play an important role in healing our body — or in staying healthy in the first place. . . There are now several lines of research suggesting that our mental perception of the world constantly informs and guides our immune system in a way that makes us better able to respond to future threats. That was a sort of ‘aha’ moment for me — where the idea of an entwined mind and body suddenly made more scientific sense than an ephemeral consciousness that’s somehow separated from our physical selves.
Neuroscientist Fabrizio Benedetti explains:
There isn’t just one placebo effect, but many. Placebo painkillers can trigger the release of natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Patients with Parkinson’s disease respond to placebos with a flood of dopamine. Fake oxygen, given to someone at altitude, has been shown to cut levels of neurotransmitters called prostaglandins (which dilate blood vessels, among other things, and are responsible for many of the symptoms of altitude sickness....."
".....So what does this mean?
It means that through the power of belief, your biological body can react in a necessary way to target whatever ailment you are experiencing. Thoughts, feelings, and emotions are directly responsible for changing your biology....."
The placebo effect is more interesting and complicated than most people realize . . . and I say that as a skeptic and rationalist.
It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting.
I think it's interesting that you're lately heading out to the fringes where interesting and provocative things are being explored scientifically - like placebo effect and human microbiome - then positing all sorts of details that are waybigfar from proven.
You know that sensible people could become intrigued by those things, accurately presented . . . but you understand you're encouraging them to the contrary, I hope?
You know in no way did I suggest anything because did not write what I posted but it was posted from a peer reviewed source.
You posted an article from collective evolution. About as far from peer review as you can get.
And by posting it you are implicitly suggesting that you agree with the conclusions.It concerns me that anyone would make non true statements to mislead others who might take your state, "It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting." as being a factual statement.
It's concerning that you would post such unsubstantiated nonsense and present it as factThere is NOTHING that is magical period. A Zippo lighter it not magical but if one did not understand the technology might call it magical. Magic just a term used by people that do not understand the science behind what they are calling magical.
It's also a term used to criticize outlandish claims. Guess which one is being used in this contextFear of the unproven is not a trait of the scientific mind. Instead of fear the unproven is just another mountain to conquer.
And jumping to outlandish conclusions based on scant evidence is?The placebo effect has been discussed in science circles for a couple hundred years and fully accepted as settled science for the last 75 years as you know or can read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_in_history
And it has been repeatedly shown, the placebo effect only affects perception (ie perceived pain). It doesn't mend bones or cure disease, despite what your ill-vetted sources may claim
And as been pointed out to you repeatedly, the study of the microbiome is in its infancy, and no self respecting scientist would be making anywhere near the claims you have been makingAs to the subject you raised about human microbiome the gut-brain axis discussions have been around for a while but it just recent months these discussions are popping up in news feeds more and more. Many of us just never thought about our gut brain but did talk about it as in saying, "I just had this 'gut' feeling.
https://sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245223171730012X
7 -
You still have to have a keto diet and workout.. u do that you can lose without the pills3
-
IUSE2BAHEAVYHITTER wrote: »You still have to have a keto diet and workout.. u do that you can lose without the pills
I do not need any pills because for some reason my cravings then binging ceased automatically after I cut out foods containing added sweeteners or any form of any grain.
Yes I still eat a keto since Oct 2014 have no real calorie burning workout. I do try to walk 1/4 of a mile daily. At the age of 68 with a lot of arthritis I do not want to have exercise as part of my weight manage but just to build muscle mass especially in my legs to help to keep from falling and I have not fallen since Oct 2014 thankfully. Today I helped the son gutting an old house he bought to move in after he gets married later in the year. I bush hogged some fields Mon-Wed. I have therapy all day on Thur to help break loose arthritis fused spine and joints. The more my range of motion improves the more I can move.
Actually I have been able to get off of all Rx medications for a few years now because of the health damage they tend to cause my health.
Per your side by side photo keep up your good success. As a side note I love Keto foods and what they do my my health but there are other Ways of Eating that works for others. The WOE that works for you typically will be right for your health too.7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The placebo effect is a very powerful solution to many disease states in humans keeping about 50% of new Rx meds from gaining FDA approval.
The placebo effect is certainly a real thing in medicine which is why real studies require it as part a control for medical research. Particularly fir conditions that can be influenced by an emotional state. But one thing a placebo cannot do is cause pounds to magically burn off fat. The body doesn't work that way.
Some people may take these pills and also do others actions that cause them to lose weight (diet and exercise) and think the pill is responsible. But nobody can just sit at home and burn fat with the power of their mind.
Mike that was my thought once but with the placebo effect being due to quantum mechanics I think the below will put a big question mark on your current thought on the subject.
"The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery."
The Strange Power of The Placebo Effect Explained
https://collective-evolution.com/2018/06/07/the-strange-power-of-the-placebo-effect-explained/
".....A Baylor School of Medicine study, published in 2002 in the New England Journal of Medicine, looked at surgery for patients with severe and debilitating knee pain. Many surgeons know there is no placebo effect in surgery, or so most of them believe. The patients were divided into three groups. The surgeons shaved the damaged cartilage in the knee of one group. For the second group they flushed out the knee joint, removing all of the material believed to be causing inflammation. Both of these processes are the standard surgeries people go through who have severe arthritic knees. The third group received a “fake” surgery, the patients were only sedated and tricked that they actually had the knee surgery. For the patients not really receiving the surgery, the doctors made the incisions and splashed salt water on the knee as they would in normal surgery. They then sewed up the incisions like the real thing and the process was complete. All three groups went through the same rehab process, and the results were astonishing. The placebo group improved just as much as the other two groups who had surgery......"
".....Perhaps this is why more and more people are gravitating towards alternative forms of medicine. As Garth Cook from Scientific American points out:
A growing body of scientific research suggests that our mind can play an important role in healing our body — or in staying healthy in the first place. . . There are now several lines of research suggesting that our mental perception of the world constantly informs and guides our immune system in a way that makes us better able to respond to future threats. That was a sort of ‘aha’ moment for me — where the idea of an entwined mind and body suddenly made more scientific sense than an ephemeral consciousness that’s somehow separated from our physical selves.
Neuroscientist Fabrizio Benedetti explains:
There isn’t just one placebo effect, but many. Placebo painkillers can trigger the release of natural pain-relieving chemicals called endorphins. Patients with Parkinson’s disease respond to placebos with a flood of dopamine. Fake oxygen, given to someone at altitude, has been shown to cut levels of neurotransmitters called prostaglandins (which dilate blood vessels, among other things, and are responsible for many of the symptoms of altitude sickness....."
".....So what does this mean?
It means that through the power of belief, your biological body can react in a necessary way to target whatever ailment you are experiencing. Thoughts, feelings, and emotions are directly responsible for changing your biology....."
The placebo effect is more interesting and complicated than most people realize . . . and I say that as a skeptic and rationalist.
It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting.
I think it's interesting that you're lately heading out to the fringes where interesting and provocative things are being explored scientifically - like placebo effect and human microbiome - then positing all sorts of details that are waybigfar from proven.
You know that sensible people could become intrigued by those things, accurately presented . . . but you understand you're encouraging them to the contrary, I hope?
You know in no way did I suggest anything because did not write what I posted but it was posted from a peer reviewed source. It concerns me that anyone would make non true statements to mislead others who might take your state, "It's still not as unequivocally magical as you're suggesting." as being a factual statement.
There is NOTHING that is magical period. A Zippo lighter it not magical but if one did not understand the technology might call it magical. Magic just a term used by people that do not understand the science behind what they are calling magical.
Fear of the unproven is not a trait of the scientific mind. Instead of fear the unproven is just another mountain to conquer.
The placebo effect has been discussed in science circles for a couple hundred years and fully accepted as settled science for the last 75 years as you know or can read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_in_history
As to the subject you raised about human microbiome the gut-brain axis discussions have been around for a while but it just recent months these discussions are popping up in news feeds more and more. Many of us just never thought about our gut brain but did talk about it as in saying, "I just had this 'gut' feeling.
https://sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245223171730012X
Quantum Mechanics does explain the possibilities of so called miracles and I find that interesting.
My hunch to cut out sweeteners and all forms of grains and their derivatives came from somewhere outside of me as does all knowledge I expect. Was an overwhelming hunch to stop eating food containing added sugars and or any form or grain a feature of Quantum Mechanics in my case?
That is a contradiction in terms. Quantum mechanics is a model of particle physics operating under normal laws of nature. A miracle is typically taken to be an event or occurrence where the laws of nature are suspended.
Despite a lot of people making claims about quantum mechanics like What the Bleep Do We Know, there is nothing in the actual application that shows quantum mechanics's observer effect is anything like the mind over matter claims or claims that they are evidence of Subjectivist Idealism. All of the unexpected effects accredited to an observer in quantum mechanics could be more clearly called the measurement effect because all of the results hold if the "observer" is a prepogrammed, non-conscious machine.1 -
Not sure about any contradiction of terms that you state in your last post. Below is an article with the history of Quantum Mechanics that I find helpful. I see 'miracles' not as a suspension of the laws of nature but that we just do not understand the laws of nature. If a law of nature can be suspended then technically it was never a law of nature I would think.
https://livescience.com/33816-quantum-mechanics-explanation.html
What Is Quantum Mechanics?
7
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