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CICO and Menopause
1mumrevolution
Posts: 269 Member
in Debate Club
I have a question.
5 years ago, as I entered peri Menopause, I managed to lose 47lbs. That was a 2 year process. As I’ve gotten older and deeper into Menopause, I’m struggling to shift weight. 21lbs is back on (that took 13 months). I plateau’d and now the scale is shifting slowly in the wrong direction again.
I’ve always believed in calories in/calories out but with me eating at maintenance and often lower, powerlifting 3 times a week and the scale slowly rising I’m wondering if for meno women, the whole CICO thing needs to be rethought/scrapped? I’m 51.
Any input?
5 years ago, as I entered peri Menopause, I managed to lose 47lbs. That was a 2 year process. As I’ve gotten older and deeper into Menopause, I’m struggling to shift weight. 21lbs is back on (that took 13 months). I plateau’d and now the scale is shifting slowly in the wrong direction again.
I’ve always believed in calories in/calories out but with me eating at maintenance and often lower, powerlifting 3 times a week and the scale slowly rising I’m wondering if for meno women, the whole CICO thing needs to be rethought/scrapped? I’m 51.
Any input?
7
Replies
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You might want to check out this group>> https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/506-near-or-post-menopausal-group
I am a firm believer of CI/CO and as yet haven't had any cause to think differently. Hoping you find some help in the above group.5 -
At the age of 48, I had been in perimenopause for 6 years. Nevertheless, I lost 25 kg in 36 weeks using CI<CO.
Life intervened, and I gained some weight back. I'm 52 now, still in perimenopause but showing signs that I may be nearing menopause. I have recently tightened up my logging again. And I'm losing weight again.
Do you need to rethink "eating at maintenance"? I know my maintenance is quite low, unfortunately.3 -
Do you use a food scale?6
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I lost my weight (100+ lbs) between the age of 59 and 61. I do find it was slower than anticipated and my calories were very low (1200) but I was also very sedentary. That is slowly changing and I have maintained for a year and a half. My weight does creep up but often it's because I'm eating a bite of this and that here and there. I really have to log and weigh constantly to stay on track. So I guess what I'm trying to say is my experience is that it can be done. Calories do count but you really have to work hard at it. The alternative for me would be to go back over 200 lbs. Hang in there and don't give up.5
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I lost about ~50 pounds between the ages of 66-67, and have been maintaining for over a year. My weight came off very slowly because I had a desk job and a long commute, but it came off as predicted for my calorie and activity levels. I think as we age, we sometimes begin to move a little less without decreasing our calories to compensate and that can make it seem like CICO no longer applies.3
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1mumrevolution wrote: »I have a question.
5 years ago, as I entered peri Menopause, I managed to lose 47lbs. That was a 2 year process. As I’ve gotten older and deeper into Menopause, I’m struggling to shift weight. 21lbs is back on (that took 13 months). I plateau’d and now the scale is shifting slowly in the wrong direction again.
I’ve always believed in calories in/calories out but with me eating at maintenance and often lower, powerlifting 3 times a week and the scale slowly rising I’m wondering if for meno women, the whole CICO thing needs to be rethought/scrapped? I’m 51.
Any input?
It's quite possible you're TDEE is lower now than it was 5 years ago, whether due to lifestyle or hormonal issues. It's also possible your accuracy was different then and now. Have you had blood work done recently? Do you use a food scale?4 -
Sleep quality generally declines during menopause and sleep deprivation leads to weight gain. Perhaps that is part of your issue -it is with me. I gained a *kitten*-ton of weight when I hit menopause and get a little tired of being told that menopause isn't a factor. Yeah all of us 50+ women just got suddenly lazy and slovenly.
(Source: Why We Sleep, Matthew Walker PhD. << fascinating book all around)14 -
1mumrevolution wrote: »I have a question.
5 years ago, as I entered peri Menopause, I managed to lose 47lbs. That was a 2 year process. As I’ve gotten older and deeper into Menopause, I’m struggling to shift weight. 21lbs is back on (that took 13 months). I plateau’d and now the scale is shifting slowly in the wrong direction again.
I’ve always believed in calories in/calories out but with me eating at maintenance and often lower, powerlifting 3 times a week and the scale slowly rising I’m wondering if for meno women, the whole CICO thing needs to be rethought/scrapped? I’m 51.
Any input?
I believe I am in peri menopause and may have been for the past 18 months or a bit more.
The last time I lost any substantial weight was about 4-5 years ago, and it came off quite quickly when I focused on a lower carb approach and I wasnt counting calories. for the past 18 months to a year when I have tried it again, it wasnt so easy and Ive realised that I cant just rely on cutting certain things out, I need to count calories as well. It has definitely slowed my loss compared to years ago when I used to lose weight.
However it is moving, although I have a lot to lose and therefore of course it will come off quicker at th start. I am 5 weeks in and have lost about 13lb now. I am aiming for a pound a week.2 -
You can believe or not believe as much as you want, but there is a bottom line as to how little you can eat, and how much you can move.
Iceberg lettuce and all day in the gym? That's not life.0 -
Yep, weighing and measuring and tracking. There is room for improvement though. I think what I’m really struggling with is how much harder it is now than a few years ago. Thanks for all input.3
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At the age of 48, I had been in perimenopause for 6 years. Nevertheless, I lost 25 kg in 36 weeks using CI<CO.
Life intervened, and I gained some weight back. I'm 52 now, still in perimenopause but showing signs that I may be nearing menopause. I have recently tightened up my logging again. And I'm losing weight again.
Do you need to rethink "eating at maintenance"? I know my maintenance is quite low, unfortunately.
Yeah, I think my maintenance may not be my “today” maintenance, though I have crunched my figures through a calorie calculator.
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1mumrevolution wrote: »Yep, weighing and measuring and tracking. There is room for improvement though. I think what I’m really struggling with is how much harder it is now than a few years ago. Thanks for all input.
It really is harder due to a confluence of factors, which is why the calories in/calories out refrain is a bit reductive imo, and gets a bit old.
Sure if you take in less calories than you expend you will lose weight, but the factors that influence the balance of that equation have certainly shifted.
Lower estrogen means more visceral fat and less muscle mass - so less calories out.
A reduction in sleep quality has a (proven) negative effect on various hormones that influence hunger, satiety, and impulse control (not to mention energy levels). And idk about you but I haven't had a full night sleep in 4 years. So yeah eating less is all fine and good but we are literally fighting hormones that are telling us to eat more. That isn't easy.
I will get woo'd for this for sure but whatever. I refuse to believe that we 50+ women are just not using enough willpower and self control and weight loss is just as easy as any age if we just "xyz". I am tired of hearing it.
Good luck to you!
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I don't see anyone here calling anyone lazy.
OP asked if maybe CICO doesn't apply as much once you hit menopause. The answer is no, CICO still 100% applies.
That doesn't mean it isn't more difficult. Hormonal issues can affect you in all sorts of ways (yes, including sleep quality), and these issues often lead to fatigue, moodiness, headaches, etc all of which can increase appetite and emotional eating and decrease energy and motivation. That can lead to a lower TDEE, making it harder to lose weight
OP, finding a doctor who is willing to work with you with any symptoms you might be having, finding ways to get more active that you enjoy, and logging more accurately and consistently can really help. Some women with hormonal conditions also find lowering carbs a bit helps, for whatever reason. Sorry your struggling!9 -
Actually my point on hormones was the opposite - sleep deprivation comes first and that affects the specific hormones that regulate hunger and satiety. So less than optimal sleep leads to hormone disruption, which leads to weight gain, and that is true at any stage in life.
Menopausal hormone fluctuations also lead to poor sleep, which is one thing that can kick start that cycle, but that wasnt the (hormonal) point I was making. Different hormones.
And I dont think anyone thinks that calories in/out doesn't apply. My point was that the calorie in/out equation changes so that the same calories in/out numbers we used in the past may no longer be relevant. So "logging more accurately" might not be the issue at all.
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Woo me all you want but what I am saying is literally proven science. There is nothing even remotely controversial about it. I honestly dont understand you people. 🤷♀️4
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Actually my point on hormones was the opposite - sleep deprivation comes first and that affects the specific hormones that regulate hunger and satiety. So less than optimal sleep leads to hormone disruption, which leads to weight gain, and that is true at any stage in life.
Menopausal hormone fluctuations also lead to poor sleep, which is one thing that can kick start that cycle, but that wasnt the (hormonal) point I was making. Different hormones.
And I dont think anyone thinks that calories in/out doesn't apply. My point was that the calorie in/out equation changes so that the same calories in/out numbers we used in the past may no longer be relevant. So "logging more accurately" might not be the issue at all.
It was OP who specifically asked if CICO should be scrapped for menopausal women, that's why replies are specifically stating it still applies.
And previous replies were telling her that her calories might need to be lower now, plus she might need to log more carefully.
Just to be clear, I'm not wooing you. I'm just not sure who you're arguing with, based on all the replies before yours. Yes, for some women it's tougher, we just want OP to know there are lots of women here who've done it and how they've done it, so she can too.6 -
Well my very first post in this thread I was suggesting that the OP might want to look at her sleep quality as that is often an issue in menopause, and has a significant impact on weight gain, and I got woo'd 4 times. So tried to explain further. Got woo'd some more. So idk. Not really arguing with anyone just trying to give some advise beyond "buy a food scale" that might be helpful. 🤷♀️9
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Unfortunately lots of people don't understand what woo is for, and I think it's often lurkers who hit the button and run. Don't lose any sleep over it, pun intended
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I lost a good amount of weight (60lb ) in peri-menopause a few years ago, and kept if off. I'm now post-menopause and finding it much harder to maintain than it was before. Some of that is in terms of "willpower" or whatever, rather than necessarily calories. For instance, I get cravings for sweet foods that I didn't have before.
I don't know if it's significant in terms of TDEE, but there is some body recomposition that goes on around this time, and generally I think for older women in particular we are constantly fighting against losing muscle and gaining fat. My scales (I know they're not accurate) showed steady muscle % gain and fat % loss earlier in perimenopause - now it's the other way round, despite doing strength exercises throughout (I hate to think how bad it would be if I hadn't done anything)! I know you're doing power-lifting and maybe that is enough to counteract it? Hopefully so.
Supposedly muscle burns more calories than fat, so my TDEE should be lower now than it was earlier in my maintenance. It certainly makes quite a difference if I put it into a calculator which accounts for body fat %. Incidentally, I don't think the calculator MFP uses accounts for body fat %, as we don't enter that. So it's likely slightly overestimating our average TDEEs.
Also, I think it's surprising how little calories you need as an older, shorter (in my case) woman. If I ever get back to the weight I was in my 30s, my maintenance calories/TDEE will be around 1300, and avoiding going over will be really hard, never mind trying to create a deficit. Yes, adding in extra exercise would add a few more, but the extra calorie burn is calculated as a % of your BMR, so if you have a low BMR you burn substantially less for the same amount of exercise.
The other thing is that when you're dealing with these smaller calorie amounts, it's so much easier to wipe out the deficit, or to slightly go over the maintenance amount.
Sorry if all this is too obvious!6 -
For anyone struggling with maintaining at lower calories than they'd like, this thread might give you some ideas
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p16 -
I lost a good amount of weight (60lb ) in peri-menopause a few years ago, and kept if off. I'm now post-menopause and finding it much harder to maintain than it was before. Some of that is in terms of "willpower" or whatever, rather than necessarily calories. For instance, I get cravings for sweet foods that I didn't have before.
I don't know if it's significant in terms of TDEE, but there is some body recomposition that goes on around this time, and generally I think for older women in particular we are constantly fighting against losing muscle and gaining fat. My scales (I know they're not accurate) showed steady muscle % gain and fat % loss earlier in perimenopause - now it's the other way round, despite doing strength exercises throughout (I hate to think how bad it would be if I hadn't done anything)! I know you're doing power-lifting and maybe that is enough to counteract it? Hopefully so.
Supposedly muscle burns more calories than fat, so my TDEE should be lower now than it was earlier in my maintenance. It certainly makes quite a difference if I put it into a calculator which accounts for body fat %. Incidentally, I don't think the calculator MFP uses accounts for body fat %, as we don't enter that. So it's likely slightly overestimating our average TDEEs.
Also, I think it's surprising how little calories you need as an older, shorter (in my case) woman. If I ever get back to the weight I was in my 30s, my maintenance calories/TDEE will be around 1300, and avoiding going over will be really hard, never mind trying to create a deficit. Yes, adding in extra exercise would add a few more, but the extra calorie burn is calculated as a % of your BMR, so if you have a low BMR you burn substantially less for the same amount of exercise.
The other thing is that when you're dealing with these smaller calorie amounts, it's so much easier to wipe out the deficit, or to slightly go over the maintenance amount.
Sorry if all this is too obvious!
Listening to it all. You make so much sense. Thank you. It’s a very frustrating time in my life.
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Hello OP - Like all of us here, I am peri menopausal at 46 and have been for the last three years. I think one of the challenges is that we will all experience it differently and therefore what will help each of us is also likely to be different...
That being said, I think there are some common themes !
Here's my experience: I have lost 40 lbs and have another 40 to go - what has helped me is:
1. Cutting out booze completely
2. Removing nearly all meat and upped my fish / quality dairy instead
3. Change my macros to more fat, a lot less carbs and having wholegrain carbs rather than sugar
4. Cooking from scratch from natural ingredients, including making my own bread
5. Walking 10k steps a day - briskly
6. Drinking filtered water or tea.
I would also like to merge in a non scientific way the importance of sleep and just how more tired its possible to get with the *kitten* perimenopause. Until I got quite a bit of the chub off, I found it harder to get the mindset to together to exercise, and then and now, I have found it harder to put my all into exercise. And thats when I am sleeping properly......when my sleep goes bad, so does my motivation to exercise. If the sleep goes bad for a few days on the bounce, the effort it takes to monitor and manage calories also becomes tougher.
I have managed this by introduing a routine for meals and exercise, and keeping my meals fairly similar so I know whats quick/easy etc without having to think about it.
Not exactly fun or spontaneous but not that difficult either.
Wishing everyone on this board well. x4
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