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Cancer Research UK Controversial Ads - Thoughts?
Replies
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I think 'Fat shaming' needs to happen. Far too many people are obese and unhealthy that live by the motto 'comfortable in my own skin' That is perfectly acceptable... if you are not clinically obese and struggle to get any form of exercise.
Nobody is saying you have to be ripped, you just need to be active. I understand that some illness can cause weight gain/inactivity so this comment isn't aimed at that. But for the 'healthy' demographic of people, being health conscious and exercising should be part of life.
If making somebody that is stuffing cakes and biscuits into them every night upset, which in turn makes them want to change - I'm all for it.
Too many snowflakes in the world scared to challenge the real issues. This may sound blunt - but people need to hear it.
I honestly do not believe you know what "shame" really is. It's not educational, it's not synonymous with making someone aware...it can be painful and humiliating and in some cases debilitating. Carried to the most evil and self serving extremes on the part of the one doing the shaming, it can be deadly.
Obese people know they are obese. I would say most are also aware that there are potential health risks involved with maintaining that obesity.
Stripping away a person's dignity never works long term in my opinion. Having a discussion, getting to know the person, setting forth an example..these all take time, but they're effective. If you care. Or do only snowflakes care?
I've never been obese, not even close, but my wife lost her ~100lbs when we kept doing the things we loved to do and she could no longer do them, like hiking tough trails etc. During that time, if someone were to purposely attempt to make her feel shame my response would have been extreme and her response would have been to withdraw even more. I know this because I know my wife.
Getting to know someone you may not like is hard and can be inconvenient and troublesome and may not always have the desired outcome, but it's worlds better than trying to make someone who is already aware of what the problems are feel the same sick and twisted feelings that some rape victims feels is in and of itself sick and twisted and ignorant.8 -
I think 'Fat shaming' needs to happen. Far too many people are obese and unhealthy that live by the motto 'comfortable in my own skin' That is perfectly acceptable... if you are not clinically obese and struggle to get any form of exercise.
Nobody is saying you have to be ripped, you just need to be active. I understand that some illness can cause weight gain/inactivity so this comment isn't aimed at that. But for the 'healthy' demographic of people, being health conscious and exercising should be part of life.
If making somebody that is stuffing cakes and biscuits into them every night upset, which in turn makes them want to change - I'm all for it.
Too many snowflakes in the world scared to challenge the real issues. This may sound blunt - but people need to hear it.
Fat shaming drove me to self-harm. I still have the scars. And by the way, overeating can be a form of self-harm too. Please explain to me how self-harm and binge-eating improved my health.
Experiencing fat shaming almost every time I left the house drove me to... avoiding leaving the house. Please explain to me how spending more time on the sofa improved my health.
I suffer from chronic depression and anxiety (which may well have contributed to my overeating). The continual fat shaming I experienced convinced me that I was worthless and the world would be better off without my fat, disgusting self. Please explain to me how driving me to the edge of suicide improved my health.13 -
I wonder if one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased?
(relax, I'm just wondering out loud.....)
Are women more prone to reacting to fat shaming with a negative (maybe even self-harming) response more than men?
Dunno..... thoughts ??
When I was in college, I had a housemate call me 'FatA##' every time he saw me for an entire week.
and yeah, too much late night, beer & pizza had added a few extra pounds.
This guy was a friend of mine ( he still is ) and in my opinion, was actually doing me a favor by calling me out about it. The result, I cleaned up my diet, hit the gym and dropped the weight.5 -
The ads are not fat shaming at all.
But fat shaming is destructive and harmful.
Others in this thread have made comments about it not being ok to see someone who is obese eating a burger and chips or equivalent. But you might see me, obese, eating a burger and chips, but its within my calorie allowance and Im losing weight. So what are you actually seeing?12 -
Motorsheen wrote: »I wonder if one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased?
(relax, I'm just wondering out loud.....)
Are women more prone to reacting to fat shaming with a negative (maybe even self-harming) response more than men?
Dunno..... thoughts ??
When I was in college, I had a housemate call me 'FatA##' every time he saw me for an entire week.
and yeah, too much late night, beer & pizza had added a few extra pounds.
This guy was a friend of mine ( he still is ) and in my opinion, was actually doing me a favor by calling me out about it. The result, I cleaned up my diet, hit the gym and dropped the weight.
Would your response have been the same if he were not a friend? Or even someone you knew? Or a woman?
Not arguing, just curious is all.2 -
The ads are not fat shaming at all.
But fat shaming is destructive and harmful.
Others in this thread have made comments about it not being ok to see someone who is obese eating a burger and chips or equivalent. But you might see me, obese, eating a burger and chips, but its within my calorie allowance and Im losing weight. So what are you actually seeing?
This very much so - Unless we know the person, we really have no idea where they are in their efforts to get healthy. I know that when I was losing weight and would be out and get that "look", I just wanted to scream out "I'm working on it! I didn't get this fat over night and I'm not going to lose it all overnight! It's not an instant fix, but give me some credit in that I am trying!"
I don't think the ads were fat shaming, but I also know that people react differently to things. Some people react well to having blunt, unadulterated truth presented to them in an almost brutal manner; its a wake up call to them. But there are others of us who are just built to have our emotions on our sleeves and the fact that we know that we need to have "thicker skin" doesn't usually have much impact on the emotional side of ourselves, and these types of folks need encouragement and don't react well at all to blunt facts.
And then you've got the ones like my sister and father who both resent having their weight brought up, and in fact, bringing it up to them tends to push them in the complete opposite direction and cause them to dig in even deeper and refuse to change. Neither will budge in their diet or opinion of their own weight, even in the face of mounting health difficulties. So while the information in those ads could inspire some people to change their lifestyle, I think for the majority of folks, it will be forgotten in seconds. After all - how many folks live thinking "it won't happen to me" even when presented with the odds?4 -
Motorsheen wrote: »I wonder if one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased?
(relax, I'm just wondering out loud.....)
Are women more prone to reacting to fat shaming with a negative (maybe even self-harming) response more than men?
Dunno..... thoughts ??
When I was in college, I had a housemate call me 'FatA##' every time he saw me for an entire week.
and yeah, too much late night, beer & pizza had added a few extra pounds.
This guy was a friend of mine ( he still is ) and in my opinion, was actually doing me a favor by calling me out about it. The result, I cleaned up my diet, hit the gym and dropped the weight.
Would your response have been the same if he were not a friend? Or even someone you knew? Or a woman?
Not arguing, just curious is all.
@Phirrgus
Good Question.
Let's see...
If it were a stranger, honestly, it would have bothered me even more because it probably would have been mean-spirited (why would a stranger be concerned about my fitness?) however the message would have still hit home.
Had the message come from a woman, I probably would have gotten back into shape even quicker than what I did. If she's saying it, then others are probably thinking the same thing.
also... I've heard guys talk to other guys the same way (they were always friends talking between one another).
I'm thinking bullies fat-shame & I hate bullies however they present themselves.
Everybody has their demons, some are just more visible than others.
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Motorsheen wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »I wonder if one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased?
(relax, I'm just wondering out loud.....)
Are women more prone to reacting to fat shaming with a negative (maybe even self-harming) response more than men?
Dunno..... thoughts ??
When I was in college, I had a housemate call me 'FatA##' every time he saw me for an entire week.
and yeah, too much late night, beer & pizza had added a few extra pounds.
This guy was a friend of mine ( he still is ) and in my opinion, was actually doing me a favor by calling me out about it. The result, I cleaned up my diet, hit the gym and dropped the weight.
Would your response have been the same if he were not a friend? Or even someone you knew? Or a woman?
Not arguing, just curious is all.
@Phirrgus
Good Question.
Let's see...
If it were a stranger, honestly, it would have bothered me even more because it probably would have been mean-spirited (why would a stranger be concerned about my fitness?) however the message would have still hit home.
Had the message come from a woman, I probably would have gotten back into shape even quicker than what I did. If she's saying it, then others are probably thinking the same thing.
also... I've heard guys talk to other guys the same way (they were always friends talking between one another).
I'm thinking bullies fat-shame & I hate bullies however they present themselves.
Everybody has their demons, some are just more visible than others.
@Motorsheen I think we're pretty close in what the reactions may have been. Bullies are one of my ...maybe first on the list of pet peeves. Yeah not much to say really - we're coming from the same place.
Thanks man0 -
Motorsheen wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »I wonder if one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased?
(relax, I'm just wondering out loud.....)
Are women more prone to reacting to fat shaming with a negative (maybe even self-harming) response more than men?
Dunno..... thoughts ??
When I was in college, I had a housemate call me 'FatA##' every time he saw me for an entire week.
and yeah, too much late night, beer & pizza had added a few extra pounds.
This guy was a friend of mine ( he still is ) and in my opinion, was actually doing me a favor by calling me out about it. The result, I cleaned up my diet, hit the gym and dropped the weight.
Would your response have been the same if he were not a friend? Or even someone you knew? Or a woman?
Not arguing, just curious is all.
@Phirrgus
Good Question.
Let's see...
If it were a stranger, honestly, it would have bothered me even more because it probably would have been mean-spirited (why would a stranger be concerned about my fitness?) however the message would have still hit home.
Had the message come from a woman, I probably would have gotten back into shape even quicker than what I did. If she's saying it, then others are probably thinking the same thing.
also... I've heard guys talk to other guys the same way (they were always friends talking between one another).
I'm thinking bullies fat-shame & I hate bullies however they present themselves.
Everybody has their demons, some are just more visible than others.
@Motorsheen I think we're pretty close in what the reactions may have been. Bullies are one of my ...maybe first on the list of pet peeves. Yeah not much to say really - we're coming from the same place.
Thanks man
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Motorsheen wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »I wonder if one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased?
(relax, I'm just wondering out loud.....)
Are women more prone to reacting to fat shaming with a negative (maybe even self-harming) response more than men?
Dunno..... thoughts ??
When I was in college, I had a housemate call me 'FatA##' every time he saw me for an entire week.
and yeah, too much late night, beer & pizza had added a few extra pounds.
This guy was a friend of mine ( he still is ) and in my opinion, was actually doing me a favor by calling me out about it. The result, I cleaned up my diet, hit the gym and dropped the weight.
Would your response have been the same if he were not a friend? Or even someone you knew? Or a woman?
Not arguing, just curious is all.
@Phirrgus
Good Question.
Let's see...
If it were a stranger, honestly, it would have bothered me even more because it probably would have been mean-spirited (why would a stranger be concerned about my fitness?) however the message would have still hit home.
Had the message come from a woman, I probably would have gotten back into shape even quicker than what I did. If she's saying it, then others are probably thinking the same thing.
also... I've heard guys talk to other guys the same way (they were always friends talking between one another).
I'm thinking bullies fat-shame & I hate bullies however they present themselves.
Everybody has their demons, some are just more visible than others.
@Motorsheen I think we're pretty close in what the reactions may have been. Bullies are one of my ...maybe first on the list of pet peeves. Yeah not much to say really - we're coming from the same place.
Thanks man
*fistbump*
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The ads are not fat shaming at all.
But fat shaming is destructive and harmful.
Others in this thread have made comments about it not being ok to see someone who is obese eating a burger and chips or equivalent. But you might see me, obese, eating a burger and chips, but its within my calorie allowance and Im losing weight. So what are you actually seeing?
This reminds me of something I witnessed a few years ago at my old gym. There was a man at my gym who had made an amazing transformation over about a 2 year period. (He was one of the regulars, so I happened to notice his progress over time.) He was still very obese, but he had lost a ton of weight and was really rocking his workouts. At first, he needed assistance to get around and was clearly not in the best health, but he kept at it and was dropping weight and walking confidently at a good pace within several months.
One day I was on the treadmill and I overhead a couple of new people making comments. One woman said to the other (gesturing toward the man) - "Look at that guy. He won't last long!" She must have assumed that because he was very obese, he must be a failure, a quitter. He didn't belong in the gym. He didn't deserve the gym. He could never survive the gym. She had no idea that this guy was actually kind of a rock star at our gym. Turns out, SHE was the quitter. She stuck around for about a month and then stopped coming.
You don't know what point someone is in their journey. Best not to make assumptions about strangers...
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The ads are not fat shaming at all.
But fat shaming is destructive and harmful....
Agree. I don't see how anyone can see those ads as fat shaming. There is nothing saying anything bad about obese people's looks, their self-control, their intelligence, their personality, etc. it is just giving a factual warning with no judgment. If it was something like a picture of a fat person eating a burger with the same warning I could see the fat shaming angle.
Did anyone complain that the original smoking warnings were "smoker shaming"?3 -
mburgess458 wrote: »The ads are not fat shaming at all.
But fat shaming is destructive and harmful....
Agree. I don't see how anyone can see those ads as fat shaming. There is nothing saying anything bad about obese people's looks, their self-control, their intelligence, their personality, etc. it is just giving a factual warning with no judgment. If it was something like a picture of a fat person eating a burger with the same warning I could see the fat shaming angle.
Did anyone complain that the original smoking warnings were "smoker shaming"?
Probably
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estherdragonbat wrote: »No, actually, fat shaming is extremely likely to do more harm than good.
Many people eat as a (poor!) coping strategy during times of stress and other emotions.
“I feel miserable, so I’m going to eat some comfort food.”
“I have so much going on in my life I can’t manage. But at least there’s comfort food.”
“Things are going great! Time to celebrate… with some comfort food.”
“I thought my weight loss was going well. I even got into that dress I couldn’t fit three months ago. And then, someone saw me jogging and called out, ‘Hey fatty! The ice cream truck went that-a-way! Hee-hee!’ and it all just seemed so pointless. It’ll take forever before people notice I’m losing or don’t see me as fat. And meanwhile, I’ve got to put up with those jerks. Well, if nobody notices that I’m trying to change, then what’s the use? Which way was that ice cream truck again? I need comfort food.”
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fat-shaming-makes-things-worse
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/09/26/obesity
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/wiring-the-mind/201501/whats-wrong-fat-shaming
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/fat-shaming-doesnt-work-a-new-study-says/?utm_term=.ed95dd725a91
https://www.everydayhealth.com/news/fat-shaming-does-not-motivate-obese-people-to-lose-weight/
You seem to have the wrong mentality, I train and track nutrition for myself - I couldn't care less what other people think. If someones says - you look too skinny, or you look a little plump you know what I say? Nothing. I just keep on with my goal.
You do you, let them do them. Everyone has set backs with food, its about recognizing you have had a 'binge' and being accountable to yourself to stop the binge continuing.
Learn to focus on you
I had a trainer in the past who said to ' you arent a dog, so why are you rewarding yourself with food' The phrase stuck with me.
If you couldn't care less what other people think, why would you think fat-shaming would be an effective strategy? Attempts to shame people would have no effect on people who don't care what other people think.
But you did care what the trainer said. There are some big logic and consistency gaps in your arguments.8 -
Motorsheen wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »I wonder if one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased?
(relax, I'm just wondering out loud.....)
Are women more prone to reacting to fat shaming with a negative (maybe even self-harming) response more than men?
Dunno..... thoughts ??
When I was in college, I had a housemate call me 'FatA##' every time he saw me for an entire week.
and yeah, too much late night, beer & pizza had added a few extra pounds.
This guy was a friend of mine ( he still is ) and in my opinion, was actually doing me a favor by calling me out about it. The result, I cleaned up my diet, hit the gym and dropped the weight.
Would your response have been the same if he were not a friend? Or even someone you knew? Or a woman?
Not arguing, just curious is all.
@Phirrgus
Good Question.
Let's see...
If it were a stranger, honestly, it would have bothered me even more because it probably would have been mean-spirited (why would a stranger be concerned about my fitness?) however the message would have still hit home.
Had the message come from a woman, I probably would have gotten back into shape even quicker than what I did. If she's saying it, then others are probably thinking the same thing.
also... I've heard guys talk to other guys the same way (they were always friends talking between one another).
I'm thinking bullies fat-shame & I hate bullies however they present themselves.
Everybody has their demons, some are just more visible than others.
So are you saying (1) your friend was a bully and you hate him or (2) what he said and did wasn't really fat-shaming in the context of your friendship. If the latter, then that experience isn't really a basis for your earlier hypothesis that "one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased."0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »I wonder if one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased?
(relax, I'm just wondering out loud.....)
Are women more prone to reacting to fat shaming with a negative (maybe even self-harming) response more than men?
Dunno..... thoughts ??
When I was in college, I had a housemate call me 'FatA##' every time he saw me for an entire week.
and yeah, too much late night, beer & pizza had added a few extra pounds.
This guy was a friend of mine ( he still is ) and in my opinion, was actually doing me a favor by calling me out about it. The result, I cleaned up my diet, hit the gym and dropped the weight.
Would your response have been the same if he were not a friend? Or even someone you knew? Or a woman?
Not arguing, just curious is all.
@Phirrgus
Good Question.
Let's see...
If it were a stranger, honestly, it would have bothered me even more because it probably would have been mean-spirited (why would a stranger be concerned about my fitness?) however the message would have still hit home.
Had the message come from a woman, I probably would have gotten back into shape even quicker than what I did. If she's saying it, then others are probably thinking the same thing.
also... I've heard guys talk to other guys the same way (they were always friends talking between one another).
I'm thinking bullies fat-shame & I hate bullies however they present themselves.
Everybody has their demons, some are just more visible than others.
So are you saying (1) your friend was a bully and you hate him or (2) what he said and did wasn't really fat-shaming in the context of your friendship. If the latter, then that experience isn't really a basis for your earlier hypothesis that "one's reaction to fat shaming is somewhat gender biased."
The point that you made is a good one.
Was he a bully? I suppose it's how you look at it; some would say 'yes', but I didn't take it that way.
Did I hate him? No, not even close.
That being said, college age guys (at least my friends) wouldn't sit down and say:
"You know, we noticed that maybe you have put on a couple of pounds and we are concerned about your health and well-being and as your friends, we certainly aren't judging you, we just think that you would be in a 'better place' if you concentrated on your health & welfare during your journey to fitness & good health."
Instead, they would say: "Hey FatA$$." (which he did.)
Did it hurt my feeling? Nope. I heard it more as a call to action.
(and also as a challenge to get lean and try to steal his girlfriend. As it went, I did lean out, however he kept the girlfriend. )
I suppose, the question on gender bias is more about the reaction to fat-shaming.... and that question came about from reading both the female and male responses on this thread.
So maybe the question is more about gender-biased reactions to perceived fat-shaming.
Do the genders, typically, react differently to the same interaction ? ...or the same?
Again.... Dunno.
I also stand by the statement that I Hate ( capital 'H' in Hate ) bullies; I always have and I always will.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »No, actually, fat shaming is extremely likely to do more harm than good.
Many people eat as a (poor!) coping strategy during times of stress and other emotions.
“I feel miserable, so I’m going to eat some comfort food.”
“I have so much going on in my life I can’t manage. But at least there’s comfort food.”
“Things are going great! Time to celebrate… with some comfort food.”
“I thought my weight loss was going well. I even got into that dress I couldn’t fit three months ago. And then, someone saw me jogging and called out, ‘Hey fatty! The ice cream truck went that-a-way! Hee-hee!’ and it all just seemed so pointless. It’ll take forever before people notice I’m losing or don’t see me as fat. And meanwhile, I’ve got to put up with those jerks. Well, if nobody notices that I’m trying to change, then what’s the use? Which way was that ice cream truck again? I need comfort food.”
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fat-shaming-makes-things-worse
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/09/26/obesity
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/wiring-the-mind/201501/whats-wrong-fat-shaming
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/fat-shaming-doesnt-work-a-new-study-says/?utm_term=.ed95dd725a91
https://www.everydayhealth.com/news/fat-shaming-does-not-motivate-obese-people-to-lose-weight/
You seem to have the wrong mentality, I train and track nutrition for myself - I couldn't care less what other people think. If someones says - you look too skinny, or you look a little plump you know what I say? Nothing. I just keep on with my goal.
You do you, let them do them. Everyone has set backs with food, its about recognizing you have had a 'binge' and being accountable to yourself to stop the binge continuing.
Learn to focus on you
I had a trainer in the past who said to ' you arent a dog, so why are you rewarding yourself with food' The phrase stuck with me.
If you couldn't care less what other people think, why would you think fat-shaming would be an effective strategy? Attempts to shame people would have no effect on people who don't care what other people think.
But you did care what the trainer said. There are some big logic and consistency gaps in your arguments.
I re-read the post in question & it didn't sound like the trainer was fat-shaming (not in the least).
Instead, the trainer was offering advice if the form of a quip; there's a big difference, right?
Nor did I read (from the one post above) that he thought fat-shaming was an effective strategy; I'm not sure where that idea came from either.
(unless I missed a previous post somewhere earlier in the thread & unless the interpretation was that fat-shaming, from any source, could be used as motivation.... I missed that too.)
Also, there is (hopefully) some accountability between the client and the trainer. I would hope a trainer would educate and train their clientele, rather than ridicule. There's no accountability to some smart-aleck stranger, there would be with a trainer.
That being said, I'm okay with a trainer, a football coach or a D.I. in my face, talking smack, looking to motivate me; that's their job. *shrug
Like all aspects of life, it's not if, or when, something happens to you (i.e. fat-shaming), it's how you react to any given situation. You can't control the action, however you can control your reaction.
... and there's a number of different ways to react too, right?1 -
I'm still curious as to whether you think tough talking or banter from friends is in any way similar to being shouted at or discriminated against by strangers in public areas.2
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Motorsheen wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »No, actually, fat shaming is extremely likely to do more harm than good.
Many people eat as a (poor!) coping strategy during times of stress and other emotions.
“I feel miserable, so I’m going to eat some comfort food.”
“I have so much going on in my life I can’t manage. But at least there’s comfort food.”
“Things are going great! Time to celebrate… with some comfort food.”
“I thought my weight loss was going well. I even got into that dress I couldn’t fit three months ago. And then, someone saw me jogging and called out, ‘Hey fatty! The ice cream truck went that-a-way! Hee-hee!’ and it all just seemed so pointless. It’ll take forever before people notice I’m losing or don’t see me as fat. And meanwhile, I’ve got to put up with those jerks. Well, if nobody notices that I’m trying to change, then what’s the use? Which way was that ice cream truck again? I need comfort food.”
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fat-shaming-makes-things-worse
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/09/26/obesity
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/wiring-the-mind/201501/whats-wrong-fat-shaming
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/fat-shaming-doesnt-work-a-new-study-says/?utm_term=.ed95dd725a91
https://www.everydayhealth.com/news/fat-shaming-does-not-motivate-obese-people-to-lose-weight/
You seem to have the wrong mentality, I train and track nutrition for myself - I couldn't care less what other people think. If someones says - you look too skinny, or you look a little plump you know what I say? Nothing. I just keep on with my goal.
You do you, let them do them. Everyone has set backs with food, its about recognizing you have had a 'binge' and being accountable to yourself to stop the binge continuing.
Learn to focus on you
I had a trainer in the past who said to ' you arent a dog, so why are you rewarding yourself with food' The phrase stuck with me.
If you couldn't care less what other people think, why would you think fat-shaming would be an effective strategy? Attempts to shame people would have no effect on people who don't care what other people think.
But you did care what the trainer said. There are some big logic and consistency gaps in your arguments.
I re-read the post in question & it didn't sound like the trainer was fat-shaming (not in the least).
Instead, the trainer was offering advice if the form of a quip; there's a big difference, right?
Nor did I read (from the one post above) that he thought fat-shaming was an effective strategy; I'm not sure where that idea came from either.
(unless I missed a previous post somewhere earlier in the thread & unless the interpretation was that fat-shaming, from any source, could be used as motivation.... I missed that too.)
Also, there is (hopefully) some accountability between the client and the trainer. I would hope a trainer would educate and train their clientele, rather than ridicule. There's no accountability to some smart-aleck stranger, there would be with a trainer.
That being said, I'm okay with a trainer, a football coach or a D.I. in my face, talking smack, looking to motivate me; that's their job. *shrug
Like all aspects of life, it's not if, or when, something happens to you (i.e. fat-shaming), it's how you react to any given situation. You can't control the action, however you can control your reaction.
... and there's a number of different ways to react too, right?
The poster clearly said they thought fat shaming was needed in a previous post.
And also stated that they didn't care what other people think, by that logic, why would you care what the trainer said and why would you think if everyone else shouldn't care what people say, that making an issue of someone's weight out of (usually faux) "concern" would make a difference?3 -
Motorsheen wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »No, actually, fat shaming is extremely likely to do more harm than good.
Many people eat as a (poor!) coping strategy during times of stress and other emotions.
“I feel miserable, so I’m going to eat some comfort food.”
“I have so much going on in my life I can’t manage. But at least there’s comfort food.”
“Things are going great! Time to celebrate… with some comfort food.”
“I thought my weight loss was going well. I even got into that dress I couldn’t fit three months ago. And then, someone saw me jogging and called out, ‘Hey fatty! The ice cream truck went that-a-way! Hee-hee!’ and it all just seemed so pointless. It’ll take forever before people notice I’m losing or don’t see me as fat. And meanwhile, I’ve got to put up with those jerks. Well, if nobody notices that I’m trying to change, then what’s the use? Which way was that ice cream truck again? I need comfort food.”
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/fat-shaming-makes-things-worse
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/09/26/obesity
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/wiring-the-mind/201501/whats-wrong-fat-shaming
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/fat-shaming-doesnt-work-a-new-study-says/?utm_term=.ed95dd725a91
https://www.everydayhealth.com/news/fat-shaming-does-not-motivate-obese-people-to-lose-weight/
You seem to have the wrong mentality, I train and track nutrition for myself - I couldn't care less what other people think. If someones says - you look too skinny, or you look a little plump you know what I say? Nothing. I just keep on with my goal.
You do you, let them do them. Everyone has set backs with food, its about recognizing you have had a 'binge' and being accountable to yourself to stop the binge continuing.
Learn to focus on you
I had a trainer in the past who said to ' you arent a dog, so why are you rewarding yourself with food' The phrase stuck with me.
If you couldn't care less what other people think, why would you think fat-shaming would be an effective strategy? Attempts to shame people would have no effect on people who don't care what other people think.
But you did care what the trainer said. There are some big logic and consistency gaps in your arguments.
I re-read the post in question & it didn't sound like the trainer was fat-shaming (not in the least).
Instead, the trainer was offering advice if the form of a quip; there's a big difference, right?
That's not at all the point I was making. The person I was responding to in the post you reference (not you) said they couldn't care less what other people think, then demonstrated that they did care what the trainer thought (in a remark that suggested the poster was behaving like a dog, so I'm not sure anyway how that is so very different from a shaming remark).Nor did I read (from the one post above) that he thought fat-shaming was an effective strategy; I'm not sure where that idea came from either.
(unless I missed a previous post somewhere earlier in the thread & unless the interpretation was that fat-shaming, from any source, could be used as motivation.... I missed that too.)
The poster has at length stated that fat-shaming should occur and that it would somehow inspire people to lose weight.Also, there is (hopefully) some accountability between the client and the trainer. I would hope a trainer would educate and train their clientele, rather than ridicule. There's no accountability to some smart-aleck stranger, there would be with a trainer.
Again, not the point of what I was saying, which was about the lack of consistency in the other poster's posts.That being said, I'm okay with a trainer, a football coach or a D.I. in my face, talking smack, looking to motivate me; that's their job. *shrug
Like all aspects of life, it's not if, or when, something happens to you (i.e. fat-shaming), it's how you react to any given situation. You can't control the action, however you can control your reaction.
... and there's a number of different ways to react too, right?
Not the point.
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Many cancers are hormone related in that disrupted hormone levels contribute to cancers, for instance, endometrial cancer presents with high oestrogen levels, in the initial stages if the symptoms are recognised for what they are, when progesterone is administered the hormone balance is restored and the pre-cancerous stop their proliferation. Making a great saving on the NHS budget or the Insurance scheme of your choice. Also this can be under pinned by a poorly functioning endocrine system, which can cause diminished growth hormone, low t3 which is responsible for among other things cell replication - too little problems cells are not eliminated as they should be. Cancer is a multifaceted problem. If someone has the knowledge of what a healthy diet should contain in the way of micro nutrients to ensure a well functioning endocrine system. Excess weight is often an unfortunate consequence of poor endocrine function.
An article in last Fridays New Scientist says forget everything we know about nutrition because there is inadequate science to back it all up. There are as many clams for low fat, low carb even keto when it comes to reversing diabetes. Scientific trials often fudge the outcome for the organisation which is sponsoring the work. Identifying compounders at the outset, defining the research parameters from the outset would make the science stand up. They do say eat as well as you can in moderation.
Poor endocrine function is a consequence of excess weight. (Yeah, maybe not always, maybe not exclusively, but as a generality, it's true.)
Several types of cancer are estrogen fed, including my own breast cancer. Before menopause, the ovaries are the most significant source of estrogen in a healthy women. Fat cells and adrenals also produce estrogen via aromatization. More fat is going to mean higher estrogen levels. Higher estrogen levels are going to mean higher incidence of estrogen-fed cancers.
Obesity causing endocrine problems is a much more common and larger issue than endocrine problems causing obesity, statistically speaking.
Of course cancer is multi-faceted. Of course micronutrients are important for health.
Obesity is a factor in causing breast cancer (among other estrogen-fed cancers). Avoiding obesity shifts one's odds of avoiding cancer in a beneficial direction.
Edited: Accidentally hit post too soon.6 -
So while a cancer research group in the UK is being accused of fat shaming, Philadelphia is launching an educational initiative.
Different message presented in an entirely different way, but targeting the same issue of obesity.
https://www.inquirer.com/health/sugar-snacks-philadelphia-health-department-farley-child-obesity-diabetes-soda-tax-20190717.html
It will be interesting to see how responses to this compare to the OPs ad campaign.Philadelphia Health Commissioner Thomas A. Farley announced a new public education campaign Wednesday aimed at alerting residents to the dangers of children eating sugary snacks and encouraging them to seek healthier alternatives.
“Here in Philadelphia, 22 percent of our children have obesity,” said Farley in a City Hall news conference. Childhood obesity can lead to serious adult health problems like diabetes, the commissioner said.
One in eight Philadelphians have diabetes, he said, including one in six African American residents and one in five Hispanic Philadelphians.
The campaign includes television, social media and billboard public service announcements and educational spots. Information is also available on FoodFitPhilly.org.
Unlike the city’s controversial sweetened beverage tax, this new effort to help get Philadelphians to adopt healthier habits is aimed at residents’ hearts, minds and waistlines, not their wallets.0 -
its interesting - i'm listening to the audiobook of Cancer: Emperor of All Maladies right now and there are several chapters dedicated to the anti-smoking campaigns and how tabacco companies found it; court cases against these companies for not disclosing risk (when it was known etc). Have to wonder if similar will be said in a few decades on this campaign0
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Many cancers are hormone related in that disrupted hormone levels contribute to cancers, for instance, endometrial cancer presents with high oestrogen levels, in the initial stages if the symptoms are recognised for what they are, when progesterone is administered the hormone balance is restored and the pre-cancerous stop their proliferation. Making a great saving on the NHS budget or the Insurance scheme of your choice. Also this can be under pinned by a poorly functioning endocrine system, which can cause diminished growth hormone, low t3 which is responsible for among other things cell replication - too little problems cells are not eliminated as they should be. Cancer is a multifaceted problem. If someone has the knowledge of what a healthy diet should contain in the way of micro nutrients to ensure a well functioning endocrine system. Excess weight is often an unfortunate consequence of poor endocrine function.
An article in last Fridays New Scientist says forget everything we know about nutrition because there is inadequate science to back it all up. There are as many clams for low fat, low carb even keto when it comes to reversing diabetes. Scientific trials often fudge the outcome for the organisation which is sponsoring the work. Identifying compounders at the outset, defining the research parameters from the outset would make the science stand up. They do say eat as well as you can in moderation.
Excess weight is always a precursor to poor endocrine function.2 -
Its not fat shaming, its literally a fact. Being overweight or obese leads to a higher chance of cancer, particularly breast cancer in women. Roswell Park told my mom that.2
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CSA, I appreciate you are the scientist in this. Excess weight can be a precursor to poor endocrine function but as someone who was endocrine symptomatic by the age of 12, while at a very good weight for a 12 year old, still so into my 30's. I am of the opinion there is something "other than", simply weight which causes hormone/endocrine disruption, endocrine disruption can come first, glands can be less effective.
Not being listened to by Medics, having your symptoms dismissed, is way up there in my opinion for not preventing poor outcomes. This could be a chicken and an egg problem, which comes first, weight gain or the underlying endocrine problem, the body is way more complicated than the view modern western medicine takes which is why I have come to favour the Functional Approach. Using the same tests but looking for the underlying dietary reasons for problems. Looking for why the body is not performing this or that activity or even doing it too much, not simply providing a Big Pharma Solution, which covers up the initial issue till it breaks out in another direction.
There are screeds of information on the benefits of the microbiome, the inoculation of newborns at birth agianst those born by c section. There is even a realisation that the microbiome of the mother is not necesarily all it could be for many, social, environmental, dietary and side effects of historic medical interventions causing problems for the mother as well as the child in the future. The balance of microbes is paramount, dominance of some cause weight gain, dominance of others sustain a beneficial weight range, while some increase histamine others facilitate the absorption of vitamins.
People who watch every calorie they take in and still do not loose weight are the ones who are vilified because they must be eating more than they need, any calorie is the same as another, I'm sure you are aware there is scientific evidence that this is not so.
You and I will never agree on things thyroid/endocrine your experience was totally different to mine. Mine is lymphatic thyroiditis otherwise Hashimoto's which is totally different again to dietary deficiency hypothyroid, come to that, to those with a genetic inability or reduction in conversion capacity t4 to t3 should be excluded. All conditions need different treatments though some may over lapping treatments, particularly when the thyroid tissue is destroyed by surgical intervention or autoimmune destruction by molecule mimicry. Key to autoimmunity is the balance of the gut microbes and the integrity of the linings of the digestive tract.3 -
Not going to say anything about the whole microbiome thing as that has been debated ad naseum and those threads were actually closed and deleted by MFP.......
I CAN say something about the thyroid thing. I started gaining weight fast at puberty and my doctor kept saying my thyroid function was fine and didn't look anywhere for any other cause for the weight gain. It got the point where I dreaded seeing her. I was finally diagnosed with hypothyroidism in my early 20's because the doctor I was seeing at the time had kept up with the latest research and knew that the standard for what is considered a normal range had changed and what had always been called normal in the past was actually hypothyroid. I was also finally diagnosed as having PCOS.
Fast forward about 6 years or so. I was seeing an endocrinologist at this point who actually told me I would never be able to lose weight because of those two diagnosis. I then proceeded to lose 100 lbs........ Unfortunately, 2 years later, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and in all the ups and downs of that treatment and getting my body used to no longer having a thyroid and figuring out what medication level I needed, I gained most of that back.
Fast forward again to 2017. whatever switch in my mind and willpower that clicks on and off when it comes to being able to stick to a diet clicked back on again, and I again, over the course of a year, lost that 100 lbs and then a few more. In the meantime, I was seeing an endocrinologist at a teaching hospital in the state connected to the state university. At that time, as part of the therapy for my cancer, she had my synthroid pushed very high to keep my TSH extremely low. However, I kept feeling hypo symptoms, never hyper symptoms. I read up on some things concerning thyroid and got a strong recommendation from other patients to have more than just my TSH checked - that just because TSH was normal did not automatically mean the other levels were. I could not get my doctor to order a test to check T4 and T3 (and this was a teaching professor at the medical school specializing in endocrinology!) She insisted that TSH was the gold standard and that if it was a certain level, everything would fall in line.
My PCP, however, was willing to work with me and ordered the tests I requested - TSH, T3, and T4. she then copied the endocrinologist on the results. And guess what? Low and behold, even though my TSH was very low and my T4 was in the normal to high range, my T3 was below normal. My endo was finally forced to address the issue, but instead of putting me on a T3 supplement, she actually increased my synthroid, claiming that would bring my T3 levels up. Well, we retested in 6 weeks (this time she actually ordered all 3 tests) and low and behold, my T3 had dropped EVEN LOWER. Finally, after all that, she finally put me on T3 as well as T4 to get my T3 up in the normal range.
So the moral of the story? 1) doctors, especially PCP's and even specialists are not always up to date on the latest research especially, in my experience, in the field of endocrinology. Even though the new thyroid standards have been out for over 10 years, there are STILL some doctors who are using the old standards (my sister's former doctor from just 2 years ago comes to mind). 2) just because a person has underlying hormonal issues does NOT mean they cannot ever lose weight. Yes, hormones do have a part to play in the CO part of the equation so that a person may have to adjust a calorie limit a little from what the generic calculators give, but no one is unable to lose weight. 3) CICO is still the principle in play; just remember that it is a dynamic number and not a straight mathematical linear equation - there are lots of things that are unique to each individual that makes up the CO part of that, but even with that said, there's a limit to how far away from the statistical average that individual can be. 4) in the end, a calories IS a calorie - I lost all that weight both times without having to cut types of food from my diet; I still ate white pasta on occasion, still had candy and cake and sweets, drank diet pop, used artifical sweeteners, ate TV dinners and fast food; the difference was I changed the portion size I was eating by eating less. Never at any point did I add exercise beyond what was a typical day to day work for me. I lost that weight simply by controlling my diet. The difference is, I did choose to eat certain types of food less often simply because I found that the calorie count was not worth the pleasure; since I had a limited amount of calories, I knew that eating that donut would fit, but I also knew I was going to be hungry again in 2 hours after I ate it, and decided it wasn't worth those 300 calories - usually. Sometimes I counted it and ate it anyway.....6 -
I have been fighting breast cancer for seven years now. I am on two neoplastics (chemo agents) that block my pituitary gland and purposely disrupt my endocrine system. I have 5+ years to go on these drugs. Naturally I’m fighting weight gain with all my might. Due to good nutrition and and exercise, I am no longer obese. My metabolism and immune system are fragile, to say the least. I mention these things on this thread for two reasons: 1) people who expressed hope and confidence in me and my body made all the difference. 2) people who misjudged my effort and my challenges had to be eliminated from my attention. 3) sharing anecdotes with people grappling with this endocrine work is extremely helpful. 4) how can I find such people in this community? Thank you for reading.4
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I have been fighting breast cancer for seven years now. I am on two neoplastics (chemo agents) that block my pituitary gland and purposely disrupt my endocrine system. I have 5+ years to go on these drugs. Naturally I’m fighting weight gain with all my might. Due to good nutrition and and exercise, I am no longer obese. My metabolism and immune system are fragile, to say the least. I mention these things on this thread for two reasons: 1) people who expressed hope and confidence in me and my body made all the difference. 2) people who misjudged my effort and my challenges had to be eliminated from my attention. 3) sharing anecdotes with people grappling with this endocrine work is extremely helpful. 4) how can I find such people in this community? Thank you for reading.3
-
CSA, I appreciate you are the scientist in this. Excess weight can be a precursor to poor endocrine function but as someone who was endocrine symptomatic by the age of 12, while at a very good weight for a 12 year old, still so into my 30's. I am of the opinion there is something "other than", simply weight which causes hormone/endocrine disruption, endocrine disruption can come first, glands can be less effective.
Not being listened to by Medics, having your symptoms dismissed, is way up there in my opinion for not preventing poor outcomes. This could be a chicken and an egg problem, which comes first, weight gain or the underlying endocrine problem, the body is way more complicated than the view modern western medicine takes which is why I have come to favour the Functional Approach. Using the same tests but looking for the underlying dietary reasons for problems. Looking for why the body is not performing this or that activity or even doing it too much, not simply providing a Big Pharma Solution, which covers up the initial issue till it breaks out in another direction.
There are screeds of information on the benefits of the microbiome, the inoculation of newborns at birth agianst those born by c section. There is even a realisation that the microbiome of the mother is not necesarily all it could be for many, social, environmental, dietary and side effects of historic medical interventions causing problems for the mother as well as the child in the future. The balance of microbes is paramount, dominance of some cause weight gain, dominance of others sustain a beneficial weight range, while some increase histamine others facilitate the absorption of vitamins.
People who watch every calorie they take in and still do not loose weight are the ones who are vilified because they must be eating more than they need, any calorie is the same as another, I'm sure you are aware there is scientific evidence that this is not so.
You and I will never agree on things thyroid/endocrine your experience was totally different to mine. Mine is lymphatic thyroiditis otherwise Hashimoto's which is totally different again to dietary deficiency hypothyroid, come to that, to those with a genetic inability or reduction in conversion capacity t4 to t3 should be excluded. All conditions need different treatments though some may over lapping treatments, particularly when the thyroid tissue is destroyed by surgical intervention or autoimmune destruction by molecule mimicry. Key to autoimmunity is the balance of the gut microbes and the integrity of the linings of the digestive tract.
There's nothing to agree on as the experience and reaction is entirely subjective. It amounts to debating over whether a restaurant is good or not. Debating over objective evidence is productive.
We only have control over a certain number of variables in a situation like this. As such a proven strategy for success is to exhibit control over those we do have influence over - such as caloric intake.
We have extremely limited control over microbiome and even if we did we don't know the perfect syntrophy of bacterial strains for optimal health. Other than eating a wide variety of food and act as an omnivore there isn't much actionable from this.
We have limited control over the medical profession. The US has the ability to fire one and find a new one to a certain degree, but still limited by exceedingly small supply. Even this will likely go away in a decade or two. All other systems you're unfortunately stuck with whatever the government decides to provide.2
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