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FDA to intervene in wild CBD claims

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  • CheekyChiq88
    CheekyChiq88 Posts: 109 Member
    hahaha...this whole thread was thoroughly enjoyable to read...thank you!
  • RunsWithBees
    RunsWithBees Posts: 1,508 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    So, just to be semi on-topic, but maybe make y'all doubt my intelligence (even more than previously):

    I am a person who likes N=1 experiments, in cases where there are a bunch of claims, but I'm pretty sure the thing in question has few risks. I try to keep an open mind, but a skeptical one.

    Many of my friends were touting CBD oil for the joint pain of various types that's increasingly common in my demographic, so I decided to try it.

    First, I tried the oral oil supplement for my knee pain. I can't see that it does anything at all. I've given it a fair chance. It tastes kind of bad, so you'd think I'd get some placebo effect for that alone, at least. But no.

    Next, I tried the topical ointment. Early times with that one still, but as far as I can see so far, it has similar pain-relieving effect to any other ointment I rub in, i.e., I think it's the self-massage that's having a very limited and temporary effect ("feels good" ;) ), rather than the nature of whatever I happen to rub into the knee.

    FWIW. Which is pretty little, I think.

    I did something similar. Had a 40% off coupon and rewards bucks so I thought I’d try an ointment and a lotion available for sale at select CVS stores here in CA since it wouldn’t cost me a lot out-of-pocket. I’m a nurse assistant and on days I work at the busiest facility my lower back is often quite sore by the end of my shift from moving patients around all day, even though I practice proper body mechanics. I usually have to take a couple of Aleve before bedtime and wake up all better the next morning. So I tried the CBD lotion one week and the ointment the next. I had previously tried a lot of different topical stuff before but nothing ever helped. The lotion didn’t do much but surprisingly the ointment really made a difference! It took away the pain of my sore back and I was able to rest and recover without having to take the Aleve pills, my back was fine the next morning. I was quite impressed. I would not repurchase the lotion form but I will definitely buy the ointment again. I also used the ointment on a bit of knee inflammation I had from aggravating an old injury from my teen years and it helped that too. If the topical ointment can spare me from having to ingest pain pills for minor aches/inflammation, then that’s a good enough reason for me to continue using it for that purpose. I don’t like taking pills that have to course through your whole body systemically just to help a small area of pain if I can treat just the affected area locally. I can’t say anything about more far fetched claims though. I suppose it’s like anything, people always want to take things to the extreme and push the boundaries before reeling it in and being more realistic about what is and what isn’t possible, plus more testing/research is certainly needed.
  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    PickledBeets8 wrote: »
    corinasue1143 wrote: »
    But I have seen people suffering in the last few days of life and heard the Dr. say, I only wish we could get them some marijuana to help with the pain. I will be the first person in line to get cbd if that happens again, just in case it might possibly help.

    End of life pain? Were all of these people allergic to morphine or something? Were they seeking care outside of conventional medicine?

    I see marijuana proposed more for the management of chronic pain, where there are fewer good options available in the current environment given concerns about opioid usage, than for end of life pain management, which pretty much allows doctors to prescribe anything that manages the pain without actually killing the patient.

    Sometimes, it might even kill the patient. And that's OK, too, at the end stage.

    I'm not being kneejerk/facile here: The morphine dose increase I personally put in my husband's stomach tube in those last hours (he couldn't swallow) - at the on-call doc's direction - to manage pain, may've killed him. Or maybe it was just cancer-related organ shutdown. Either way, I'm completely fine with it.

    The current anti-opiate rhetoric worries me a little. Some people truly need it, in massive amounts . . . even deadly amounts, sometimes. Diversion and alternatives (including marijuana) can be good for people who are going to live. At the end, some people need more.
    I'm in total agreement (and condolences). Addressing your last paragraph more specifically, I feel like what would be more useful is a larger push for patient education with regards to the use and accidental misuse of opiates. Because yeah, some people need it and not all of those people are dealing with end of life related issues. Some people need it for acute issues and others for chronic issues.

    It seems entirely unwise, for instance, to not offer someone who has undergone major (or in many cases minor) surgery powerful painkillers, especially given that chasing pain is more difficult task than staying on top of it. At the same time, really educating people on how to use said pain killers is really important because it can be really easy to misuse them unintentionally. That, however, requires doctors to actually spend time talking to their patients about what they're being prescribed, why, and how to take their meds. It also requires things like trying to figure out why someone is [still] in pain when they probably shouldn't be instead of just throwing meds at the issue.

    And then there's the whole issue of people self medicating for mental health related issues which requires things like destigmatizing mental illness and mental healthcare, insurance companies covering therapy more than they do now, and so on.
  • mbaker566
    mbaker566 Posts: 11,233 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    PickledBeets8 wrote: »
    corinasue1143 wrote: »
    But I have seen people suffering in the last few days of life and heard the Dr. say, I only wish we could get them some marijuana to help with the pain. I will be the first person in line to get cbd if that happens again, just in case it might possibly help.

    End of life pain? Were all of these people allergic to morphine or something? Were they seeking care outside of conventional medicine?

    I see marijuana proposed more for the management of chronic pain, where there are fewer good options available in the current environment given concerns about opioid usage, than for end of life pain management, which pretty much allows doctors to prescribe anything that manages the pain without actually killing the patient.

    Sometimes, it might even kill the patient. And that's OK, too, at the end stage.

    I'm not being kneejerk/facile here: The morphine dose increase I personally put in my husband's stomach tube in those last hours (he couldn't swallow) - at the on-call doc's direction - to manage pain, may've killed him. Or maybe it was just cancer-related organ shutdown. Either way, I'm completely fine with it.

    The current anti-opiate rhetoric worries me a little. Some people truly need it, in massive amounts . . . even deadly amounts, sometimes. Diversion and alternatives (including marijuana) can be good for people who are going to live. At the end, some people need more.

    even with a chronic pain disorder. i used get dirty looks picking up my narcotic pain relief. now i even have a hard time getting a prescription. thankfully, my need for it is rare and it can be managed by nonnarcotics.

    as far as dogs, quality is important. does it do anything? i haven't noticed any real improvement in the dogs who are given it.
  • rhtexasgal
    rhtexasgal Posts: 572 Member

    glovepuppet wrote: »
    I've tried a bunch of both over the counter and prescription pain meds for my hideous periods. The ones that work all had unbearable side effects, so I can only take them if I have the day off. CBD was a last resort, because all the overblown claims put me off.

    For me, it takes away the sharpest corners, but doesn't take the pain away. However, it's the only thing I've tried that will ease things without any horrible side effects. It doesn't help with the nausea and vomiting at all.

    My daughter found it eased her emotional tension more than her pain.

    I did give it to the dog when he developed an abscess in his mouth outside vet opening hours, and it seemed to soothe him considerably more than I expected it to. I'd definitely use again in an emergency.

    My verdict? It's worth a try, but don't expect miracles. Anyone claiming it cures all ills is either a conman or a fool.

    Yes, your sharpest corners analogy is spot on. The CBD oil just sort of softens those corners, blunts the pain a bit ... and as another poster said, if you forget a few days, you will realize just how much the CBD oil does help. My hubby has nerve damage so sometimes, he loses grip strength totally and one day, he dropped the CBD oil bottle and it broke. It took about 3 days for a new order to come in and he felt those 3 days and only got through with muscle relaxers and lots of alternating of heat, ice and tens unit sessions. He found a CBD oil vendor through the VFW magazine and the owner actually returns emails and calls!

    CBD oil works for our dog as well. We will put a single drop on a piece of cheese and fold it so she will take it. Our Aussie shepherd (in my profile pic) is 16 years old with a bit of doggie dementia, tired bones and some aches and pains. She still has puppy moments, still tries to herd us in the house but has stopped being sociable with others outside the family so we make her as comfortable as possible and on occasion, that means a drop of CBD oil in addition to her doggie pain meds from the vet.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    My wife has Fibromyalgia. It's about 80% better than it was years ago, sometimes she doesn't even feel like she has it any more. We went through an entire lifestyle change, what most docs want to tell people with Fibro but know it will never happen. Well, we did it and it worked well.

    She knows a ton of folks that take CBD Oil for the chronic pain with Fibro and many claim it helps them a lot. I bought some for her and she was like, "meh". Not much of an effect, but that's likely because she does everything else that she should - watch her sugar intake, not eat processed food, limit vegetable oils (so her Omega 3 ratio to Omega 6/9 is like 1 to 2), gets sleep (and puts down her devices at night), tries to move her body in gentle ways. CBD is huge in the Fibro community. She's had more pain reduction from Turmeric and for that matter really high quality Omega 3s and eating a Med Diet (plant based diets help a lot with chronic pain). I do think some want to believe it's a magic pill now that access to Opioids have been limited. But those I know also aren't likely to change anything else about the way they behave or eat and simply want that pill that's going to solve it for them.
  • KellyAnne999
    KellyAnne999 Posts: 2 Member
    CBD is in everything. I even have CBD brow gel, mascara, and lipgloss, all of which were GWP, not things I actually put forth my coin for. No clue how it’d be useful in those items, but here we are, I guess. Gotta milk the sneks for the oil while it’s hot.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    So, just to be semi on-topic, but maybe make y'all doubt my intelligence (even more than previously):

    I am a person who likes N=1 experiments, in cases where there are a bunch of claims, but I'm pretty sure the thing in question has few risks. I try to keep an open mind, but a skeptical one.

    Many of my friends were touting CBD oil for the joint pain of various types that's increasingly common in my demographic, so I decided to try it.

    First, I tried the oral oil supplement for my knee pain. I can't see that it does anything at all. I've given it a fair chance. It tastes kind of bad, so you'd think I'd get some placebo effect for that alone, at least. But no.

    Next, I tried the topical ointment. Early times with that one still, but as far as I can see so far, it has similar pain-relieving effect to any other ointment I rub in, i.e., I think it's the self-massage that's having a very limited and temporary effect ("feels good" ;) ), rather than the nature of whatever I happen to rub into the knee.

    FWIW. Which is pretty little, I think.

    Same here - several brands of pills and topicals did nothing for pain except for the slight possibility of some small benefit from self massage.

    The pills made me a little sleepy, but not enough to actually help with sleep.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    PickledBeets8 wrote: »
    corinasue1143 wrote: »
    But I have seen people suffering in the last few days of life and heard the Dr. say, I only wish we could get them some marijuana to help with the pain. I will be the first person in line to get cbd if that happens again, just in case it might possibly help.

    End of life pain? Were all of these people allergic to morphine or something? Were they seeking care outside of conventional medicine?

    I see marijuana proposed more for the management of chronic pain, where there are fewer good options available in the current environment given concerns about opioid usage, than for end of life pain management, which pretty much allows doctors to prescribe anything that manages the pain without actually killing the patient.

    Sometimes, it might even kill the patient. And that's OK, too, at the end stage.

    I'm not being kneejerk/facile here: The morphine dose increase I personally put in my husband's stomach tube in those last hours (he couldn't swallow) - at the on-call doc's direction - to manage pain, may've killed him. Or maybe it was just cancer-related organ shutdown. Either way, I'm completely fine with it.

    The current anti-opiate rhetoric worries me a little. Some people truly need it, in massive amounts . . . even deadly amounts, sometimes. Diversion and alternatives (including marijuana) can be good for people who are going to live. At the end, some people need more.

    Kudos to you for how you handled that sad situation at the time and afterwards.

    After my experience with my grandfather and morphine at his end of life, when my partner's mother was prescribed morphine, I correctly surmised it what time to say goodbye.

    I've received anti-benzo rhetoric. My (now retired) doctor used to fret at the potential for addiction when I asked for a refill. I had to remind him he was only giving me six pills a YEAR. Hard to get addicted at that rate.

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