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FDA to intervene in wild CBD claims

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  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 2,499Member Member Posts: 2,499Member Member
    If you want to watch a hippie's head explode, tell them that if CBD really cured everything, "big pharma" would have never let "them" legalize it. 😆

    The company Curaleaf claims that it has developed products that can treat a slew of the most formidable conditions found in humans, including cancer, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, depression, opioid withdrawal, chronic pain, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). It also has products said to treat anxiety, pain, and diabetes in cats and dogs. (The product comes in bacon and salmon flavors.) And just one ingredient in all of its products is responsible for these remarkable medical breakthroughs: the cannabis-derived compound cannabidiol (CBD).

    Sadly, those claims are not backed by evidence.

    This week the Food and Drug Administration announced that it sent Curaleaf a warning letter for illegally selling unapproved drugs and making unsubstantiated treatment claims.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07/a-cure-for-cancer-alzheimers-depression-fda-smacks-down-wild-cbd-claims/

    @NorthCascades here are a few things that your "big pharma" knows about CBD from 45 years of research.

    Cannabidiol Reduces Intestinal Inflammation through the Control of Neuroimmune Axis
    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3232190/
    "However, in this study we demonstrate that during intestinal inflammation, CBD is able to control the inflammatory scenario and the subsequent intestinal apoptosis through the restoration of the altered glia-immune homeostasis. CBD is therefore regarded as a promising therapeutic agent that modulates the neuro-immune axis, which can be recognised as a new target in the treatment of inflammatory bowel disorders."


    An Update on Safety and Side Effects of Cannabidiol: A Review of Clinical Data and Relevant Animal Studies
    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5569602/
    After 45 years of research on CBD usage some of the disease states are name with CBD results on said disease states near the end of this paper.

    Cannabidiol in Anxiety and Sleep: A Large Case Series
    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6326553/
    CONCLUSION
    Formal studies on efficacy and dose finding are much needed. Some urgency exists, given the explosion of lay interest in this topic and the rush to market these compounds. Current understanding of the physiology and neurologic pathways points to a benefit with anxiety-related issues. The results of our clinical report support the existing scientific evidence. In our study, we saw no evidence of a safety issue that would limit future studies. In this evaluation, CBD appears to be better tolerated than routine psychiatric medications. Furthermore, CBD displays promise as a tool for reducing anxiety in clinical populations, but given the open-label and nonrandomized nature of this large case series, all results must be interpreted very cautiously. Randomized and controlled trials are needed to provide definitive clinical guidance.

    A Cross-Sectional Study of Cannabidiol Users
    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6043845/
    Results: Almost 62% of CBD users reported using CBD to treat a medical condition. The top three medical conditions were pain, anxiety, and depression. Almost 36% of respondents reported that CBD treats their medical condition(s) “very well by itself,” while only 4.3% reported “not very well.” One out of every three users reported a nonserious adverse effect. The odds of using CBD to treat a medical condition were 1.44 (95% confidence interval, 1.16–1.79) times greater among nonregular users of Cannabis than among regular users.
    Conclusion: Consumers are using CBD as a specific therapy for multiple diverse medical conditions—particularly pain, anxiety, depression, and sleep disorders. These data provide a compelling rationale for further research to better understand the therapeutic potential of CBD.

    Cannabidiol (CBD) — what we know and what we don’t
    https://health.harvard.edu/blog/cannabidiol-cbd-what-we-know-and-what-we-dont-2018082414476
    Cannabidiol (CBD) has been recently covered in the media, and you may have even seen it as an add-in booster to your post-workout smoothie or morning coffee. What exactly is CBD? Why is it suddenly so popular?
    I'm not sure how "big pharma" has anything to do with this thread, including the articles you posted. I can't imagine that there are any companies that would be considered under the heading big pharma that produce CBD products (including medication I mentioned earlier today) and the legality surrounding CBD (and THC for that matter) isn't really related to big farma so much as it's related to illicit drug laws.

    If this was one of the many other drugs that are also currently in the news, then that'd be one thing, but it's not.
  • lkpduckylkpducky Posts: 9,213Member Member Posts: 9,213Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    The amount of eye rolling I do on a near daily basis about CBD, I swear....well you know, you're only 3ish hours north of me.

    CBD can cure eye rolling. 😉

    Are you sure you're not confusing it with THC? ;)

    Getting technical, are we? ;)
  • Keto_VampireKeto_Vampire Posts: 1,688Member Member Posts: 1,688Member Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    The amount of eye rolling I do on a near daily basis about CBD, I swear....well you know, you're only 3ish hours north of me.

    CBD can cure eye rolling. 😉
    Ironically enough, nystagmus is a more notorious side effect from Anti-epileptic drugs
    For the lols...
    gzxecbiqtpd5.png

    "Can nystagmus be treated?

    Several medical and surgical treatments that sometimes help people with nystagmus are available. Surgery usually reduces the null positions, lessening head tilt and improving cosmetic appearance.

    Drugs such as Botox or Baclofen can reduce some nystagmic movements, although results are usually temporary.

    Some people with nystagmus benefit from biofeedback training.

    If you have nystagmus, make sure you undergo regular eye exams so you can be monitored for both health and vision issues.

    Both eyeglasses and contact lenses can help people with nystagmus see better, but I have found contact lenses to be the superior alternative for many with nystagmus. With glasses, the eyes sweep back and forth over the lens centers and vision is not as clear. With contacts, however, the lens centers move with the eyes."
    edited July 27
  • thanos5thanos5 Posts: 372Member Member Posts: 372Member Member
    that's why i stick to wearing my thick a** glasses
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 2,499Member Member Posts: 2,499Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    The amount of eye rolling I do on a near daily basis about CBD, I swear....well you know, you're only 3ish hours north of me.

    CBD can cure eye rolling. 😉

    Are you sure you're not confusing it with THC? ;)

    I can't get that for 45% off this week at my favorite local Whole Foods like market!
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Posts: 11,478Member Member Posts: 11,478Member Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    The amount of eye rolling I do on a near daily basis about CBD, I swear....well you know, you're only 3ish hours north of me.

    CBD can cure eye rolling. 😉

    Are you sure you're not confusing it with THC? ;)

    I can't get that for 45% off this week at my favorite local Whole Foods like market!

    Michigan is in the honeymoon phase: You can't buy it for recreational use yet, but someone can give it to you as a gift, and you may possess it. So, potentially cheaper than the CBD. ;)
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Posts: 11,478Member Member Posts: 11,478Member Member
    So, just to be semi on-topic, but maybe make y'all doubt my intelligence (even more than previously):

    I am a person who likes N=1 experiments, in cases where there are a bunch of claims, but I'm pretty sure the thing in question has few risks. I try to keep an open mind, but a skeptical one.

    Many of my friends were touting CBD oil for the joint pain of various types that's increasingly common in my demographic, so I decided to try it.

    First, I tried the oral oil supplement for my knee pain. I can't see that it does anything at all. I've given it a fair chance. It tastes kind of bad, so you'd think I'd get some placebo effect for that alone, at least. But no.

    Next, I tried the topical ointment. Early times with that one still, but as far as I can see so far, it has similar pain-relieving effect to any other ointment I rub in, i.e., I think it's the self-massage that's having a very limited and temporary effect ("feels good" ;) ), rather than the nature of whatever I happen to rub into the knee.

    FWIW. Which is pretty little, I think.
  • CheekyChiq88CheekyChiq88 Posts: 97Member Member Posts: 97Member Member
    hahaha...this whole thread was thoroughly enjoyable to read...thank you!
  • RunsWithBeesRunsWithBees Posts: 1,041Member Member Posts: 1,041Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    So, just to be semi on-topic, but maybe make y'all doubt my intelligence (even more than previously):

    I am a person who likes N=1 experiments, in cases where there are a bunch of claims, but I'm pretty sure the thing in question has few risks. I try to keep an open mind, but a skeptical one.

    Many of my friends were touting CBD oil for the joint pain of various types that's increasingly common in my demographic, so I decided to try it.

    First, I tried the oral oil supplement for my knee pain. I can't see that it does anything at all. I've given it a fair chance. It tastes kind of bad, so you'd think I'd get some placebo effect for that alone, at least. But no.

    Next, I tried the topical ointment. Early times with that one still, but as far as I can see so far, it has similar pain-relieving effect to any other ointment I rub in, i.e., I think it's the self-massage that's having a very limited and temporary effect ("feels good" ;) ), rather than the nature of whatever I happen to rub into the knee.

    FWIW. Which is pretty little, I think.

    I did something similar. Had a 40% off coupon and rewards bucks so I thought I’d try an ointment and a lotion available for sale at select CVS stores here in CA since it wouldn’t cost me a lot out-of-pocket. I’m a nurse assistant and on days I work at the busiest facility my lower back is often quite sore by the end of my shift from moving patients around all day, even though I practice proper body mechanics. I usually have to take a couple of Aleve before bedtime and wake up all better the next morning. So I tried the CBD lotion one week and the ointment the next. I had previously tried a lot of different topical stuff before but nothing ever helped. The lotion didn’t do much but surprisingly the ointment really made a difference! It took away the pain of my sore back and I was able to rest and recover without having to take the Aleve pills, my back was fine the next morning. I was quite impressed. I would not repurchase the lotion form but I will definitely buy the ointment again. I also used the ointment on a bit of knee inflammation I had from aggravating an old injury from my teen years and it helped that too. If the topical ointment can spare me from having to ingest pain pills for minor aches/inflammation, then that’s a good enough reason for me to continue using it for that purpose. I don’t like taking pills that have to course through your whole body systemically just to help a small area of pain if I can treat just the affected area locally. I can’t say anything about more far fetched claims though. I suppose it’s like anything, people always want to take things to the extreme and push the boundaries before reeling it in and being more realistic about what is and what isn’t possible, plus more testing/research is certainly needed.
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 2,499Member Member Posts: 2,499Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    But I have seen people suffering in the last few days of life and heard the Dr. say, I only wish we could get them some marijuana to help with the pain. I will be the first person in line to get cbd if that happens again, just in case it might possibly help.

    End of life pain? Were all of these people allergic to morphine or something? Were they seeking care outside of conventional medicine?

    I see marijuana proposed more for the management of chronic pain, where there are fewer good options available in the current environment given concerns about opioid usage, than for end of life pain management, which pretty much allows doctors to prescribe anything that manages the pain without actually killing the patient.

    Sometimes, it might even kill the patient. And that's OK, too, at the end stage.

    I'm not being kneejerk/facile here: The morphine dose increase I personally put in my husband's stomach tube in those last hours (he couldn't swallow) - at the on-call doc's direction - to manage pain, may've killed him. Or maybe it was just cancer-related organ shutdown. Either way, I'm completely fine with it.

    The current anti-opiate rhetoric worries me a little. Some people truly need it, in massive amounts . . . even deadly amounts, sometimes. Diversion and alternatives (including marijuana) can be good for people who are going to live. At the end, some people need more.
    I'm in total agreement (and condolences). Addressing your last paragraph more specifically, I feel like what would be more useful is a larger push for patient education with regards to the use and accidental misuse of opiates. Because yeah, some people need it and not all of those people are dealing with end of life related issues. Some people need it for acute issues and others for chronic issues.

    It seems entirely unwise, for instance, to not offer someone who has undergone major (or in many cases minor) surgery powerful painkillers, especially given that chasing pain is more difficult task than staying on top of it. At the same time, really educating people on how to use said pain killers is really important because it can be really easy to misuse them unintentionally. That, however, requires doctors to actually spend time talking to their patients about what they're being prescribed, why, and how to take their meds. It also requires things like trying to figure out why someone is [still] in pain when they probably shouldn't be instead of just throwing meds at the issue.

    And then there's the whole issue of people self medicating for mental health related issues which requires things like destigmatizing mental illness and mental healthcare, insurance companies covering therapy more than they do now, and so on.
  • mbaker566mbaker566 Posts: 9,412Member Member Posts: 9,412Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    But I have seen people suffering in the last few days of life and heard the Dr. say, I only wish we could get them some marijuana to help with the pain. I will be the first person in line to get cbd if that happens again, just in case it might possibly help.

    End of life pain? Were all of these people allergic to morphine or something? Were they seeking care outside of conventional medicine?

    I see marijuana proposed more for the management of chronic pain, where there are fewer good options available in the current environment given concerns about opioid usage, than for end of life pain management, which pretty much allows doctors to prescribe anything that manages the pain without actually killing the patient.

    Sometimes, it might even kill the patient. And that's OK, too, at the end stage.

    I'm not being kneejerk/facile here: The morphine dose increase I personally put in my husband's stomach tube in those last hours (he couldn't swallow) - at the on-call doc's direction - to manage pain, may've killed him. Or maybe it was just cancer-related organ shutdown. Either way, I'm completely fine with it.

    The current anti-opiate rhetoric worries me a little. Some people truly need it, in massive amounts . . . even deadly amounts, sometimes. Diversion and alternatives (including marijuana) can be good for people who are going to live. At the end, some people need more.

    even with a chronic pain disorder. i used get dirty looks picking up my narcotic pain relief. now i even have a hard time getting a prescription. thankfully, my need for it is rare and it can be managed by nonnarcotics.

    as far as dogs, quality is important. does it do anything? i haven't noticed any real improvement in the dogs who are given it.
  • rhtexasgalrhtexasgal Posts: 529Member Member Posts: 529Member Member

    I've tried a bunch of both over the counter and prescription pain meds for my hideous periods. The ones that work all had unbearable side effects, so I can only take them if I have the day off. CBD was a last resort, because all the overblown claims put me off.

    For me, it takes away the sharpest corners, but doesn't take the pain away. However, it's the only thing I've tried that will ease things without any horrible side effects. It doesn't help with the nausea and vomiting at all.

    My daughter found it eased her emotional tension more than her pain.

    I did give it to the dog when he developed an abscess in his mouth outside vet opening hours, and it seemed to soothe him considerably more than I expected it to. I'd definitely use again in an emergency.

    My verdict? It's worth a try, but don't expect miracles. Anyone claiming it cures all ills is either a conman or a fool.

    Yes, your sharpest corners analogy is spot on. The CBD oil just sort of softens those corners, blunts the pain a bit ... and as another poster said, if you forget a few days, you will realize just how much the CBD oil does help. My hubby has nerve damage so sometimes, he loses grip strength totally and one day, he dropped the CBD oil bottle and it broke. It took about 3 days for a new order to come in and he felt those 3 days and only got through with muscle relaxers and lots of alternating of heat, ice and tens unit sessions. He found a CBD oil vendor through the VFW magazine and the owner actually returns emails and calls!

    CBD oil works for our dog as well. We will put a single drop on a piece of cheese and fold it so she will take it. Our Aussie shepherd (in my profile pic) is 16 years old with a bit of doggie dementia, tired bones and some aches and pains. She still has puppy moments, still tries to herd us in the house but has stopped being sociable with others outside the family so we make her as comfortable as possible and on occasion, that means a drop of CBD oil in addition to her doggie pain meds from the vet.
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