Carnivore diet
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BecomingBane wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Yes, there is a group on MFP. Fiber is necessary to best digest other plants, but not for carnivores. And carnivores don't eat "vegetables and grass" - that does not even make sense to anyone who understands what the word "carnivore" means.
Just gonna leave this here:
"Some carnivores, called obligate carnivores, depend only on meat for survival. Their bodies cannot digest plants properly. Plants do not provide enough nutrients for obligate carnivores. All cats, from small house cats to huge tigers, are obligate carnivores.
Most carnivores are not obligate carnivores. A hypercarnivore is an organism that depends on animals for at least 70 percent of its diet. Plants, fungi, and other nutrients make up the rest of their food. All obligate carnivores, including cats, are hypercarnivores. Sea stars, which prey mostly on clams and oysters, are also hypercarnivores.
Mesocarnivores depend on animal meat for at least 50 percent of their diet. Foxes are mesocarnivores. They also eat fruits, vegetables, and fungi.
Hypocarnivores depend on animal meat for less than 30 percent of their diet. Most species of bears are hypocarnivores. They eat meat, fish, berries, nuts, and even the roots and bulbs of plants. Hypocarnivores such as bears are also considered omnivores."
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/carnivore/
By that definition, vegans are carnivores... specifically hypocarnivores since less than 30% of their diet comes from animal meat.
A simple dictionary definition:an animal (such as a dog, fox, crocodile, or shark) that feeds primarily or exclusively on animal matter
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/carnivore5 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Yes, there is a group on MFP. Fiber is necessary to best digest other plants, but not for carnivores. And carnivores don't eat "vegetables and grass" - that does not even make sense to anyone who understands what the word "carnivore" means.
Just gonna leave this here:
"Some carnivores, called obligate carnivores, depend only on meat for survival. Their bodies cannot digest plants properly. Plants do not provide enough nutrients for obligate carnivores. All cats, from small house cats to huge tigers, are obligate carnivores.
Most carnivores are not obligate carnivores. A hypercarnivore is an organism that depends on animals for at least 70 percent of its diet. Plants, fungi, and other nutrients make up the rest of their food. All obligate carnivores, including cats, are hypercarnivores. Sea stars, which prey mostly on clams and oysters, are also hypercarnivores.
Mesocarnivores depend on animal meat for at least 50 percent of their diet. Foxes are mesocarnivores. They also eat fruits, vegetables, and fungi.
Hypocarnivores depend on animal meat for less than 30 percent of their diet. Most species of bears are hypocarnivores. They eat meat, fish, berries, nuts, and even the roots and bulbs of plants. Hypocarnivores such as bears are also considered omnivores."
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/carnivore/
By that definition, vegans are carnivores... specifically hypocarnivores since less than 30% of their diet comes from animal meat.
A simple dictionary definition:an animal (such as a dog, fox, crocodile, or shark) that feeds primarily or exclusively on animal matter
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/carnivore
I can't help that you disagree with scientific classification. This is another instance of facts being greater than your personal opinion, though.10 -
BecomingBane wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Yes, there is a group on MFP. Fiber is necessary to best digest other plants, but not for carnivores. And carnivores don't eat "vegetables and grass" - that does not even make sense to anyone who understands what the word "carnivore" means.
Just gonna leave this here:
"Some carnivores, called obligate carnivores, depend only on meat for survival. Their bodies cannot digest plants properly. Plants do not provide enough nutrients for obligate carnivores. All cats, from small house cats to huge tigers, are obligate carnivores.
Most carnivores are not obligate carnivores. A hypercarnivore is an organism that depends on animals for at least 70 percent of its diet. Plants, fungi, and other nutrients make up the rest of their food. All obligate carnivores, including cats, are hypercarnivores. Sea stars, which prey mostly on clams and oysters, are also hypercarnivores.
Mesocarnivores depend on animal meat for at least 50 percent of their diet. Foxes are mesocarnivores. They also eat fruits, vegetables, and fungi.
Hypocarnivores depend on animal meat for less than 30 percent of their diet. Most species of bears are hypocarnivores. They eat meat, fish, berries, nuts, and even the roots and bulbs of plants. Hypocarnivores such as bears are also considered omnivores."
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/carnivore/
By that definition, vegans are carnivores... specifically hypocarnivores since less than 30% of their diet comes from animal meat.
A simple dictionary definition:an animal (such as a dog, fox, crocodile, or shark) that feeds primarily or exclusively on animal matter
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/carnivore
I can't help that you disagree with scientific classification. This is another instance of facts being greater than your personal opinion, though.
Even if you go off the definition that includes vegans as carnivores, that doesn't change the fact tha we are talking about a specific WOE. Just like you can't claim to be eating a keto diet when you eat a dozen pop-tarts every day, you can't say you follow the carnivore WOE and also eat a bunch of salads. Or, you could say about anything, I suppose... that doesn't make it so. There are clear parameters about what is or is not carnivore. I'm really loose whereas some carnivore purists are on the opposite side if the spectrum. I personally believe it is ok to do carnivore as it works for you. Still, there is a difference between omnivores and carnivores. A WOE with "grass" (salad) is not a carnivore WOE.4 -
I haven't tried this diet, but then...humans aren't carnivores, humans are omnivores, so yeah, too restrictive for good health.9
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I have heard Jordan Peterson and his daughter love it for managing autoimmune issues.
A close friend of mine also uses a carnivore-like diet to manage her autoimmune disease. However, even though that WOE helps her feel better, she can't manage it 100% of the time. It's too restrictive. She's been experimenting with introducing very small amounts of plants.0 -
IMO just another extreme fad diet...10
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Yes, there is a group on MFP. Fiber is necessary to best digest other plants, but not for carnivores. And carnivores don't eat "vegetables and grass" - that does not even make sense to anyone who understands what the word "carnivore" means.
Just gonna leave this here:
"Some carnivores, called obligate carnivores, depend only on meat for survival. Their bodies cannot digest plants properly. Plants do not provide enough nutrients for obligate carnivores. All cats, from small house cats to huge tigers, are obligate carnivores.
Most carnivores are not obligate carnivores. A hypercarnivore is an organism that depends on animals for at least 70 percent of its diet. Plants, fungi, and other nutrients make up the rest of their food. All obligate carnivores, including cats, are hypercarnivores. Sea stars, which prey mostly on clams and oysters, are also hypercarnivores.
Mesocarnivores depend on animal meat for at least 50 percent of their diet. Foxes are mesocarnivores. They also eat fruits, vegetables, and fungi.
Hypocarnivores depend on animal meat for less than 30 percent of their diet. Most species of bears are hypocarnivores. They eat meat, fish, berries, nuts, and even the roots and bulbs of plants. Hypocarnivores such as bears are also considered omnivores."
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/carnivore/
By that definition, vegans are carnivores... specifically hypocarnivores since less than 30% of their diet comes from animal meat.
A simple dictionary definition:an animal (such as a dog, fox, crocodile, or shark) that feeds primarily or exclusively on animal matter
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/carnivore
I can't help that you disagree with scientific classification. This is another instance of facts being greater than your personal opinion, though.
Even if you go off the definition that includes vegans as carnivores, that doesn't change the fact tha we are talking about a specific WOE. Just like you can't claim to be eating a keto diet when you eat a dozen pop-tarts every day, you can't say you follow the carnivore WOE and also eat a bunch of salads. Or, you could say about anything, I suppose... that doesn't make it so. There are clear parameters about what is or is not carnivore. I'm really loose whereas some carnivore purists are on the opposite side if the spectrum. I personally believe it is ok to do carnivore as it works for you. Still, there is a difference between omnivores and carnivores. A WOE with "grass" (salad) is not a carnivore WOE.
The poster who mentioned eating grass (from stomach contents of prey) was talking about the common understanding of predators in the wild who eat prey whole, including any vegetation they are currently digesting. While that might not be the exact type of carnivore whoever packaged Carnivore as a WOE was thinking of, I don't think it's fair to classify it as "not making sense".
No one here is suggesting that vegans could theoretically be carnivores, just explaining to one poster that the "Carnivore Diet" has a specific set of rules that don't necessarily match exactly what the average person thinks of as the eating pattern of a carnivorous animal.9 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Yes, there is a group on MFP. Fiber is necessary to best digest other plants, but not for carnivores. And carnivores don't eat "vegetables and grass" - that does not even make sense to anyone who understands what the word "carnivore" means.
Just gonna leave this here:
"Some carnivores, called obligate carnivores, depend only on meat for survival. Their bodies cannot digest plants properly. Plants do not provide enough nutrients for obligate carnivores. All cats, from small house cats to huge tigers, are obligate carnivores.
Most carnivores are not obligate carnivores. A hypercarnivore is an organism that depends on animals for at least 70 percent of its diet. Plants, fungi, and other nutrients make up the rest of their food. All obligate carnivores, including cats, are hypercarnivores. Sea stars, which prey mostly on clams and oysters, are also hypercarnivores.
Mesocarnivores depend on animal meat for at least 50 percent of their diet. Foxes are mesocarnivores. They also eat fruits, vegetables, and fungi.
Hypocarnivores depend on animal meat for less than 30 percent of their diet. Most species of bears are hypocarnivores. They eat meat, fish, berries, nuts, and even the roots and bulbs of plants. Hypocarnivores such as bears are also considered omnivores."
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/carnivore/
By that definition, vegans are carnivores... specifically hypocarnivores since less than 30% of their diet comes from animal meat.
A simple dictionary definition:an animal (such as a dog, fox, crocodile, or shark) that feeds primarily or exclusively on animal matter
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/carnivore
I can't help that you disagree with scientific classification. This is another instance of facts being greater than your personal opinion, though.
Even if you go off the definition that includes vegans as carnivores, that doesn't change the fact tha we are talking about a specific WOE. Just like you can't claim to be eating a keto diet when you eat a dozen pop-tarts every day, you can't say you follow the carnivore WOE and also eat a bunch of salads. Or, you could say about anything, I suppose... that doesn't make it so. There are clear parameters about what is or is not carnivore. I'm really loose whereas some carnivore purists are on the opposite side if the spectrum. I personally believe it is ok to do carnivore as it works for you. Still, there is a difference between omnivores and carnivores. A WOE with "grass" (salad) is not a carnivore WOE.
The poster who mentioned eating grass (from stomach contents of prey) was talking about the common understanding of predators in the wild who eat prey whole, including any vegetation they are currently digesting. While that might not be the exact type of carnivore whoever packaged Carnivore as a WOE was thinking of, I don't think it's fair to classify it as "not making sense".
No one here is suggesting that vegans could theoretically be carnivores, just explaining to one poster that the "Carnivore Diet" has a specific set of rules that don't necessarily match exactly what the average person thinks of as the eating pattern of a carnivorous animal.
Thanks for clarifying. Yes, in the wild, I suppose some plant matter at various states of digestion are consumed by carnivores. I'm not sure the percentages, but many of us human carnivores still add seasonings and spices to our meat. Whether that is more or less plant material than a wild carnivore eats, on average, probably depends on a lot of factors that are tough to measure.
The definition that includes omnivores and vegans as carnivores is quite clear, even with ranges in percentage of diets. No minimum was included, so that is why vegans fit the definition presented for carnivores. Regardless, this conversation is about those of us who eat exclusively or almost exclusively from animals.5 -
BTW, pork chitterlings, livers, bladders, and ground meats (including ground digestive parts) are all carnivore-friendly.2
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Yes, there is a group on MFP. Fiber is necessary to best digest other plants, but not for carnivores. And carnivores don't eat "vegetables and grass" - that does not even make sense to anyone who understands what the word "carnivore" means.
ETA: I see many people who have never eaten carnivore, never looked into it, and don't even understand that carnivores don't eat "vegetables and grass" seem to believe themselves as experts. OP, if you go carnivore, you should expect this as the norm. And yes, I know many will "woo" this simply because they don't understand it and are unhappy about their lack of understanding... just not enough to be willing to learn.
This is a valid point. Eating this way will certainly be met with resistance in your everyday life. Whether or not it is a healthy lifestyle you will be given a lot of unsolicited advice and your eating will be a subject of much conversation. This will be less understood than veganism. You may find all the new interest in your life to be appealing at first (I wouldn't) but over time you may grow weary of explaining and defending your choices over and over and over and over again. Friends and relatives may consider it a burden to have you over for meals.
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I respond exceedingly well to a fairly strict low carb diet so tried an all meat diet back in January I think (whatever world carnivore month was). I didn't experience any benefit -- other than deeper ketosis if that can be considered a benefit which I do not like. So of course I didn't stick with it.
I will say that between a plant based low carb diet (that still includes meat just the majority of food coming from plants) and a meat based diet (that still includes plants) I do better on a meat based diet eating less vegetables. I still eat them with every meal -- I love fruits, vegetables, nuts and all of that so it's not a hardship -- but I no longer eat them with a "more is better" mindset and feel better for it.
Excellent resource if anyone is interested:The Ultimate Guide to the Carnivore Diet
Table of Contents
1. What is the carnivore diet?- Keto vs Paleo vs Carnivore: just a new trend?
3. Are there any dangers to carnivore diets?
4. Humans: carnivores or omnivores?- Humans need meat
- Don't humans need plants?
- Anti-nutrients and metabolic changes
- Potassium
- Magnesium
- Vitamin C
6. Won’t the carnivore diet leave me fiber deficient?
7. Can a carnivore diet be healthy?
8. Are carnivores just as crazy as vegans?
9. Why are so many carnivores into Bitcoin?
10. Conclusion
Co-Written by L. Amber O’Hearn and Raphael Sirtoli
Scientifically Reviewed by Sarah Neidler, PhD3 -
lalalacroix wrote: »concordancia wrote: »Fiber is an important nutrient for humans.
I couldn't imagine the constipation effect!
Coyotes are 90% carnivorous (they do also like berries and sometimes eat grass, etc.) Their scat looks very unlike that of domesticated dogs because of all the fur they consume. So, they are getting plenty of fiber
I use coyotes for an example because I see their scat in my woods from time to time, and I always marvel how unlike dogs' it is.
Pics: http://www.foremostcoyotehunting.com/2017/03/animal-feces-coyote-poop.html3 -
@kshama2001 I am very familiar with coyote scat, I see scat everywhere I hike and even on my driveway. I live on a ravine and i hear them at night. My cats and dog love to go outside but I keep a very close eye on them. Lol I have taken pictures of the scat on our driveway and sent it to my husband, just in case he does not believe.1
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kshama2001 wrote: »lalalacroix wrote: »concordancia wrote: »Fiber is an important nutrient for humans.
I couldn't imagine the constipation effect!
Coyotes are 90% carnivorous (they do also like berries and sometimes eat grass, etc.) Their scat looks very unlike that of domesticated dogs because of all the fur they consume. So, they are getting plenty of fiber
I use coyotes for an example because I see their scat in my woods from time to time, and I always marvel how unlike dogs' it is.
Pics: http://www.foremostcoyotehunting.com/2017/03/animal-feces-coyote-poop.html
Love the link. I see coyote scat pretty often on trail. I'm sure I have some photos I've taken on my phone somewhere. Don't know why but I find their poop so interesting along with every other type of animal scat that I find.
My comment was based on personal experience solely. My digestion works so great now that my fiber intake is always north of 50 grams. I didn't even realize how "hard" I had it before. 😁2 -
Anyone have any experience with the carnivore diet? Good or bad? Thanks.
I've been experimenting with it for a bit now, do you have any specific questions? I'm not full carnivore at this point, but mix in carnivore days/weeks into my LC plan. On my carnivore days I eat mostly beef, but do add in small amounts of eggs, seafood, pork and then dairy (HWC and ghee mostly), when I feel like it. I also still drink coffee and uses spices.0 -
lalalacroix wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »lalalacroix wrote: »concordancia wrote: »Fiber is an important nutrient for humans.
I couldn't imagine the constipation effect!
Coyotes are 90% carnivorous (they do also like berries and sometimes eat grass, etc.) Their scat looks very unlike that of domesticated dogs because of all the fur they consume. So, they are getting plenty of fiber
I use coyotes for an example because I see their scat in my woods from time to time, and I always marvel how unlike dogs' it is.
Pics: http://www.foremostcoyotehunting.com/2017/03/animal-feces-coyote-poop.html
Love the link. I see coyote scat pretty often on trail. I'm sure I have some photos I've taken on my phone somewhere. Don't know why but I find their poop so interesting along with every other type of animal scat that I find.
My comment was based on personal experience solely. My digestion works so great now that my fiber intake is always north of 50 grams. I didn't even realize how "hard" I had it before. 😁
You and @L1zardQueen are making me feel less weird for my interest in coyote scat, lol!
It may not have been obvious, but I was agreeing with you on fiber. I certainly need fiber to be regular. A human with a Carnivore WOE wouldn't be getting all the fiber carnivores in the wild get.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »lalalacroix wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »lalalacroix wrote: »concordancia wrote: »Fiber is an important nutrient for humans.
I couldn't imagine the constipation effect!
Coyotes are 90% carnivorous (they do also like berries and sometimes eat grass, etc.) Their scat looks very unlike that of domesticated dogs because of all the fur they consume. So, they are getting plenty of fiber
I use coyotes for an example because I see their scat in my woods from time to time, and I always marvel how unlike dogs' it is.
Pics: http://www.foremostcoyotehunting.com/2017/03/animal-feces-coyote-poop.html
Love the link. I see coyote scat pretty often on trail. I'm sure I have some photos I've taken on my phone somewhere. Don't know why but I find their poop so interesting along with every other type of animal scat that I find.
My comment was based on personal experience solely. My digestion works so great now that my fiber intake is always north of 50 grams. I didn't even realize how "hard" I had it before. 😁
You and @L1zardQueen are making me feel less weird for my interest in coyote scat, lol!
It may not have been obvious, but I was agreeing with you on fiber. I certainly need fiber to be regular. A human with a Carnivore WOE wouldn't be getting all the fiber carnivores in the wild get.
Just my n=1 but I've had no issues with a zero fiber way of eating. I still continue to have daily bm's. Removing fiber has eliminated bloating and gas though. Others may have different experiences but it really hasn't been an issue for me to ditch the fiber
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kshama2001 wrote: »lalalacroix wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »lalalacroix wrote: »concordancia wrote: »Fiber is an important nutrient for humans.
I couldn't imagine the constipation effect!
Coyotes are 90% carnivorous (they do also like berries and sometimes eat grass, etc.) Their scat looks very unlike that of domesticated dogs because of all the fur they consume. So, they are getting plenty of fiber
I use coyotes for an example because I see their scat in my woods from time to time, and I always marvel how unlike dogs' it is.
Pics: http://www.foremostcoyotehunting.com/2017/03/animal-feces-coyote-poop.html
Love the link. I see coyote scat pretty often on trail. I'm sure I have some photos I've taken on my phone somewhere. Don't know why but I find their poop so interesting along with every other type of animal scat that I find.
My comment was based on personal experience solely. My digestion works so great now that my fiber intake is always north of 50 grams. I didn't even realize how "hard" I had it before. 😁
You and @L1zardQueen are making me feel less weird for my interest in coyote scat, lol!
It may not have been obvious, but I was agreeing with you on fiber. I certainly need fiber to be regular. A human with a Carnivore WOE wouldn't be getting all the fiber carnivores in the wild get.
Just my n=1 but I've had no issues with a zero fiber way of eating. I still continue to have daily bm's. Removing fiber has eliminated bloating and gas though. Others may have different experiences but it really hasn't been an issue for me to ditch the fiber
Same here. I still get runner's stomach when running (no change), but not eating plants / fiber has eliminated bloating other times of the day. I have no trouble getting "backed up" nor with hard stools.5 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Yes, there is a group on MFP. Fiber is necessary to best digest other plants, but not for carnivores. And carnivores don't eat "vegetables and grass" - that does not even make sense to anyone who understands what the word "carnivore" means.
ETA: I see many people who have never eaten carnivore, never looked into it, and don't even understand that carnivores don't eat "vegetables and grass" seem to believe themselves as experts. OP, if you go carnivore, you should expect this as the norm. And yes, I know many will "woo" this simply because they don't understand it and are unhappy about their lack of understanding... just not enough to be willing to learn.
I don't think there is sufficient evidence to suggest that fiber is not necessary or beneficial. I have read the current hypothesis that it's only necessary if you eat carbs, but its a hypothesis.
I actually considered carnivore after watch a bunch of videos from Dr. Ken Berry. I was mainly considering it since it aligned typically eating which is mainly meat based. Ultimately i chose against it because without fiber i get constipated.
What i did find interesting recently is a discussion between Dr Layne Norton and Dr. Suzanne Devkota. It was focused on artificial sweeteners but did discuss briefly gut microbiome impacts from carnivore diets and how it can permanently effect your ability to process certain carbs if you are on it for awhile. Below is the video.
https://youtu.be/6k_4OOf7lPg 5
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