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76 Billion Opioid Pills Manufactured in USA 2006-2012
sidcorsini
Posts: 44 Member
in Debate Club
Where are these going? What percentage of the American population is addicted, and how many mgs does that equal on average per person?
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Replies
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I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.8
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NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
This ^^^^1 -
- to people with pain, mostly. There are 50 million chronic pain sufferers in the USA. If they take 2 pills a day for pain, for a year, that’s already around 35 billion pills. Again, that is just 1 year, not the 6 you mention.
Now, obviously not all these folks take opiods, but take the nonusers out and add in all the post surgery patients taking weeks or months, here and there, and other people with valid uses, and this amount of pills is not unreasonable.
Not to mention, the statistics on opioid addiction have a large percentage from people using illegal meds, not legal ones. The CDC admitted to lumping illegal and legal usage together in their statistics recently.
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Also many, many chronic pain sufferers are denied proper pain management (either underused or not prescribed in the first place) and are suffering greatly because of the "crisis". I was dependent (NOT addicted) on an opioid for a while so now I don't have access to them at all.12
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NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
Just curious how a preventable car accident is defined. Sure impaired driving, link to some distraction etc. Anything else considered "preventable"?1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
Just curious how a preventable car accident is defined. Sure impaired driving, link to some distraction etc. Anything else considered "preventable"?
Excessive speed for road conditions? Running red lights? I would think the large majority of car accidents are preventable. I would think that the ones that occur because of something completely unpredictable and unpreventable -- malfunctions in well-maintained cars, bizarre rapidly developing weather issues, unexpected health issue incapacitating a driver, tree limbs falling in your path out of the blue, deer in areas they don't usually travel -- are the minority of accidents.5 -
My dad is dying of metastatic pancreatic cancer. He has had severe pain the last few months and opioids have helped.15
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
Just curious how a preventable car accident is defined. Sure impaired driving, link to some distraction etc. Anything else considered "preventable"?
Drinking, texting, speeding, following too closely, outrunning brakes or sight lines, etc etc.1 -
How many mgs of what drug? Never mind that opioids (among plenty of other drugs) are manufactured in varying doses. Is drug abuse a problem? Yes. Is the title of this thread along with the first post fear mongering? Yes.sidcorsini wrote: »Where are these going? What percentage of the American population is addicted, and how many mgs does that equal on average per person?
Nevermind, of course, that plenty of people actually need opioids to control chronic and/or acute pain. Heck I tend to have a very high pain tolerance and have only had to use an entire 'script of opiod pain meds after one of my many surgeries as an adult. That said, there's no humane way that I'd be able to say, recover from a knee surgery that involves breaking and then resetting bone, without being on pain meds for at least a handful of days after the fact.8 -
I've had 6 shoulder operations 2 hand operations, extensive nose/sinus surgery and several bouts of horrific (crawling on floor to bathroom level) back pain. I've been prescribed probably 1,000 opioid pills for these situation and actually took around 10-12. The side effects to me (foggy head, bathroom issues) were not worth any pain relief provided.
Also on the chronic pain thing. In many cases (especially back issues) one can manage pain by such non-drug methods as proper exercise, movement and loosing weight. Unfortunately, we as a society like to choose the pill instead of doing the work.15 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
There isn't any real context, it is false equivalency.3 -
True, but more people drive than actually take opiates. And at least with driving, there are consequences if people get caught breaking the law. For people that abuse opiates, there's really no way to curtail that cause it's an individual thing.NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
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USA USA USA LOL.
In most countries I know of Opiates are given in a medical environment(a hospital, post operation for a short period of time). The problem as I see it in the states is 1) you have little or no public health care so a knee that needs to be replaced cant be, 2) you have little or no employment protection, so you can really ring in sick. Therefore, you got to work to pay the bills and you an operation aint available, so you take whatever to get you thru. And then you have a business writing the rules for doctors etc
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »I've had 6 shoulder operations 2 hand operations, extensive nose/sinus surgery and several bouts of horrific (crawling on floor to bathroom level) back pain. I've been prescribed probably 1,000 opioid pills for these situation and actually took around 10-12. The side effects to me (foggy head, bathroom issues) were not worth any pain relief provided.
Also on the chronic pain thing. In many cases (especially back issues) one can manage pain by such non-drug methods as proper exercise, movement and loosing weight. Unfortunately, we as a society like to choose the pill instead of doing the work.
I had back surgery when I was 14 - shortly before my 15th birthday I think. Not giving me opioids would have been a joke, a very mean joke. I've had...I think nine other surgeries, if we include getting my wisdom teeth out. Of those, six were major surgeries. The only time I've had especially unfortunate side effects to opioids was when I was under 18 (so the wisdom teeth). I also take as many meds as it takes to not chase the pain and no more. Not managing and instead chasing pain would likely end it me (and anyone else for that matter) having taken more pain meds. The one time when that didn't happen was when the nerve block for my first knee surgery didn't take...that was maybe not the worst pain I've been in (see the back surgery), but it was the hardest to control. And again, these were not things like ACL repairs. The 4 knee surgeries were osteotomies that involved very extensive rehabilitation protocols (9 months for the last two).
While there are a lot of people with back pain in the US, back pain that can somewhat easily be resolved by weight loss and exercise, that wasn't the bulk of what I was talking about when mentioning chronic pain. I was talking about things like cancer, CRPS, cerebral palsy, pain related to various palliative care situations, etc. These are not situations that involve "choose [sic] the pill instead of doing the work." Also note that chronic use of large doses NSAIDS can cause major GI issues and it's absurdly easy to accidentally overdose on acetaminophen because of how narrow the window of tolerance is.10 -
Not to mention, the statistics on opioid addiction have a large percentage from people using illegal meds, not legal ones. The CDC admitted to lumping illegal and legal usage together in their statistics recently.
There's often a connection between the two, however -- it starts with prescription and then moves into other sources.
https://nihrecord.nih.gov/2018/05/18/author-recounts-how-opioids-took-hold-america
Also "prescription" = illegal when obtained illegally too.
The crisis is absolutely largely about illegal usage, not just doctors prescribing irresponsibly (although the history of that in various areas is relevant).1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »I've had 6 shoulder operations 2 hand operations, extensive nose/sinus surgery and several bouts of horrific (crawling on floor to bathroom level) back pain. I've been prescribed probably 1,000 opioid pills for these situation and actually took around 10-12. The side effects to me (foggy head, bathroom issues) were not worth any pain relief provided.
Also on the chronic pain thing. In many cases (especially back issues) one can manage pain by such non-drug methods as proper exercise, movement and loosing weight. Unfortunately, we as a society like to choose the pill instead of doing the work.
I'm 5'8 105 lbs. Doubt losing weight will help my severe chronic abdominal pain.11 -
I think doctors prescribing it where opioids is not needed is somewhat part of the problem. A couple of real life examples:
My husband had to go to the ER for a laceration (work injury, so he had to go). They ended up just cleaning the wound and bandaging him up (no stitches). They sent him home with a script for vicodin. He never filled it.
A friend of somehow got a splinter in her eye when we were teens. She went to the ER to get the irritant removed from her eye, and they sent her home with a vicodin script, which I think she did fill and take. That same friend later broke her back on the job. Now this is a case where stronger pain meds would be warranted. But she took them beyond the point of needing them anymore, and ended up addicted. This sent her in a downward spiral of other drugs as well. FWIW though, she was the type that had what one could call an addictive personality. She was later arrested for selling opiates. Her story is a prime example of what now makes it so hard for people who really need it to get thier refills.
My brother had scoliosis surgery (age 16 at the time). He was so afraid of taking his prescribed meds (opiates) after surgery, that he let his pain get to a point of passing out. He did take a couple of doses after that point, but got the direction from his doctor to take a combo if Ibuprofen and tylenol instead. That actually kept his pain at a managable level so he didn't have to take them.
I'm not sure where I'm going with all this, but just wanted to share some expiriences and different outcomes. I'm not sure what the proper solution is. I know doctors could probably prescribe it less for less severe pain. Such as sticthes, minor injuries or outpatient surgeries. While I understand NSAIDS can cause stomach problems these are usually associated with long term use. It's really tragic though that people who really need it are treated like drug addicts. What do we do about it? I think medicinal marajuana is a step in the right direction for some people, as it's not as addictive and habit forming as opoids. But I suppose that's another debate all together.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »I've had 6 shoulder operations 2 hand operations, extensive nose/sinus surgery and several bouts of horrific (crawling on floor to bathroom level) back pain. I've been prescribed probably 1,000 opioid pills for these situation and actually took around 10-12. The side effects to me (foggy head, bathroom issues) were not worth any pain relief provided.
Also on the chronic pain thing. In many cases (especially back issues) one can manage pain by such non-drug methods as proper exercise, movement and loosing weight. Unfortunately, we as a society like to choose the pill instead of doing the work.
I had back surgery when I was 14 - shortly before my 15th birthday I think. Not giving me opioids would have been a joke, a very mean joke. I've had...I think nine other surgeries, if we include getting my wisdom teeth out. Of those, six were major surgeries. The only time I've had especially unfortunate side effects to opioids was when I was under 18 (so the wisdom teeth). I also take as many meds as it takes to not chase the pain and no more. Not managing and instead chasing pain would likely end it me (and anyone else for that matter) having taken more pain meds. The one time when that didn't happen was when the nerve block for my first knee surgery didn't take...that was maybe not the worst pain I've been in (see the back surgery), but it was the hardest to control. And again, these were not things like ACL repairs. The 4 knee surgeries were osteotomies that involved very extensive rehabilitation protocols (9 months for the last two).
While there are a lot of people with back pain in the US, back pain that can somewhat easily be resolved by weight loss and exercise, that wasn't the bulk of what I was talking about when mentioning chronic pain. I was talking about things like cancer, CRPS, cerebral palsy, pain related to various palliative care situations, etc. These are not situations that involve "choose [sic] the pill instead of doing the work." Also note that chronic use of large doses NSAIDS can cause major GI issues and it's absurdly easy to accidentally overdose on acetaminophen because of how narrow the window of tolerance is.
This is a very valid point that warrants repeating.
After surgery to repair a shattered leg, I tried to 'tough it out' by only taking the prescribed meds when the pain had already escalated well beyond my rather high tolerance level.
When I next saw the surgeon three or four days later, he was renewing my prescription and I told him I didn't need it because I still had plenty of pills left. I expected him to be proud of me, and was kind of taken aback when he wasn't.
He then educated me on the importance of managing the pain instead of chasing it, too, and it's stuck with me all these years. By trying to 'suck it up' I was at risk of actually lengthening my recovery time because the pain was wearing me down at a time I really needed to be resting and building myself back up so that I could properly participate in the long physical therapy that lay ahead.8 -
My big thing is that, in cases where someone has essentially "accidently" become addicted to painkillers after an injury or surgery, there needs to be far more patient education. Letting people know how to take their medication, telling people not to just tuff it out and instead actually manage their pain, sitting down with a patient and/or their spouse/parent/person who is lucid enough to be cognitively aware and making a schedule of when to take what meds, coming up with a plan that is easy to put in action if the patient forgets to take their meds (it's easy to sleep through a dose), letting patients know that it's ok to call if they need guidance, etc.
I remember when I was 16 and got my wisdom teeth out, I had a series of post-it notes on my desk that said when I last took X med and when I should take said med again. I was very loopy, but I was cognizant enough to make a haphazard but effective schedule. With the last surgeries, I've set a series of alarms on my phone.7 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »I've had 6 shoulder operations 2 hand operations, extensive nose/sinus surgery and several bouts of horrific (crawling on floor to bathroom level) back pain. I've been prescribed probably 1,000 opioid pills for these situation and actually took around 10-12. The side effects to me (foggy head, bathroom issues) were not worth any pain relief provided.
Also on the chronic pain thing. In many cases (especially back issues) one can manage pain by such non-drug methods as proper exercise, movement and loosing weight. Unfortunately, we as a society like to choose the pill instead of doing the work.
I'm 5'8 105 lbs. Doubt losing weight will help my severe chronic abdominal pain.
C'mon man! You just need to tough it out and do the work. Not!!
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I'm going to assume this is the news bit OP is referring to..
https://www.biospace.com/article/release-of-federal-database-reveals-76-billion-opioid-pills-were-sold-in-the-u-s-from-2006-2012/The DEA database also revealed some surprising information about what the companies knew about the number of pills entering the market. The database provided information about the exact number of pills being dispensed, when the companies were made aware of the volume of pills being dispensed, as well as year by year and town by town information, the Post said. The evidence seems rather damning particularly as these companies are the subject of thousands of lawsuits from state and local governments. The Post noted that the companies “allowed the drugs to reach the streets of communities large and small, despite persistent red flags that those pills were being sold in apparent violation of federal law and diverted to the black market.”
The information in the database had long been held secret. However, a judicial order prompted the release of data up to 2013. U.S. District Judge Dan Polster said there is no basis for shielding older data, the Tribune Chronicle reported. The database information was released as part of ongoing opioid litigation in Ohio that targets manufacturers and distributors of opioids that have devastated communities across that state, as well as others. The lawsuits in Ohio target multiple opioid manufacturers, including Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen Pharmaceuticals, Purdue Pharma, Teva Pharmaceuticals and Cephalon, as well as the primary distributors.
In response to the release of the information in the database, a Mallinckrodt spokesperson told the Post that the company “produced opioids only within a government-controlled quota and sold only to DEA-approved distributors.” Actavis was acquired by Teva Pharmaceutical in 2016. A spokesperson for Israel-based Teva said the company is unable to speak about any systems regarding distribution that had been in place prior to the acquisition.
The release of the information from the DEA database will likely be seen as a boon from plaintiffs in the thousands of cases against the opioid manufacturers and distributors. A large number of lawsuits argue that opioid manufacturers and distributors used misleading marketing practices that contributed to high levels of addition. Additionally, the lawsuits argue that the companies downplayed concerns over abuse and were complicit in a large number of opioid deliveries to certain pharmacies in areas hard hit by the epidemic.
They mention the number of pills dispensed, but no guesstimate on the number of pills being funneled to the black market.1 -
There are times when short periods of opiate prescription can be really helpful in the care of the post operative or similarly pained persons. As someone who reacts to salicylate, discovered when I forgot to take an aspirin before exercise and I did not end up in pain repeatedly, though I do still have my underlying arthritis. I strongly suggest, pain relief sensitivity is more of an issues than the powers that be would have any of us believe.
I've read the health problems from protracted prescribed opiate use were not recognised twenty or more years ago and continued. I hope now the practice of prescribing is dramatically reduced and those who's lives are blighted are helped to overcome their use, along side removing illegal opiates etc from our streets. We do have some poor people over here who also have difficulties.
Living in the UK I look across the pond and see so many of you die as the result of gun crime. Why are automatic, war hardware still available over there. I know we, the UK have our own antisocial issues, gun crime is virtually none existent compared with the 1970's where there seemed to be bank raids each and every week. Here guns are licenced and following some instances of mental breakdown causing deaths, I remember two persons killed by one's partner, in the last 5 years, greater care is given when returning weaponry to the owner.7 -
I was prescribed opioids after my three joint replacement surgeries and also for ice pick migraines.
I don't have a genetic propensity for addiction, don't smoke, drink or do recreational drugs. I only took the drugs if the pain was obscenely over the top. I ended up with unused pills from every prescription.
I can't believe that I'm the only person on the planet with this experience with opioids.2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
There isn't any real context, it is false equivalency.
You're right, there's no way you can compare dead people with dead people.1 -
I was prescribed opioids after my three joint replacement surgeries and also for ice pick migraines.
I don't have a genetic propensity for addiction, don't smoke, drink or do recreational drugs. I only took the drugs if the pain was obscenely over the top. I ended up with unused pills from every prescription.
I can't believe that I'm the only person on the planet with this experience with opioids.
I think there's a difference between using prescribed painkillers *as directed* under these circumstances, and under or over using them. I was you until I learned how detrimental foregoing these meds could actually be.4 -
True, but more people drive than actually take opiates. And at least with driving, there are consequences if people get caught breaking the law. For people that abuse opiates, there's really no way to curtail that cause it's an individual thing.NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Sometimes. If you want to make people really mad, do the speed limit, everybody behind you will lose their minds.
The other day, I saw the aftermath of a guy with a really important text who rear ended a police car. That's impressive!
I know that as a pedestrian and cyclist, my life is in far more danger from bad drivers than from pills. I spent a day in the ER and ICU and two weeks unable to walk several years ago because a dinner ran a red light.
I just can't shake the feeling that this is a lot of fear mongering, a mountain out of a mole hill. The fact that no one really cares about the (more) people dying in traffic confirms my suspicion, it's not about the deaths.2 -
I was prescribed opioids after my three joint replacement surgeries and also for ice pick migraines.
I don't have a genetic propensity for addiction, don't smoke, drink or do recreational drugs. I only took the drugs if the pain was obscenely over the top. I ended up with unused pills from every prescription.
I can't believe that I'm the only person on the planet with this experience with opioids.
You aren't the only one. I took opioids for about 2 months after abdominal surgery to remove a huge ovarian cyst. I was having excruciating muscle spasms for some reason, and that was the only thing that worked. I didn't have any of the common side effects, and I just naturally started to wean off of them at about the 2 month mark. People can take them and not become addicted.3 -
NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
There isn't any real context, it is false equivalency.
You're right, there's no way you can compare dead people with dead people.
Your response is overly simplistic and devoid of even a hint of intellect. Then again, there aren't high expectations for people who promote the use of logical fallacies.8 -
I was prescribed opioids after my three joint replacement surgeries and also for ice pick migraines.
I don't have a genetic propensity for addiction, don't smoke, drink or do recreational drugs. I only took the drugs if the pain was obscenely over the top. I ended up with unused pills from every prescription.
I can't believe that I'm the only person on the planet with this experience with opioids.
I can assure you, you're not the only one.2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
There isn't any real context, it is false equivalency.
You're right, there's no way you can compare dead people with dead people.
Your response is overly simplistic and devoid of even a hint of intellect. Then again, there aren't high expectations for people who promote the use of logical fallacies.
If you say so, it must be true. I've learned that random people on the internet who aren't capable of explaining why they believe something are always right.7
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