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Am I unhealthy? BMI says I'm obese..

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  • kq1981kq1981 Posts: 1,050Member Member Posts: 1,050Member Member
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    I am an RN and I do like the BMI tool - used in conjunction with clinical picture, ie seeing the actual patient.

    Is usually blatantly obvious whether somebody has a very high BMI because they are have an unusual muscle mass, ie elite body builders - or they are plain old fat.

    Yes I've seen people who are fit and healthy and BMI says overweight too - usually young active men who have a BMI of 27 or so.
    They are the demographic often just above upper limits and still healthy.

    Young women with BMI over 30,( ie OP) much less likely to be healthy weight.
    Highly unlikely her BMI does not reflect true obesity, or at least significant overweight. As I said before.

    The fact that BMI was first invented in 1830's doesn't change its validity. Maths hasn't changed and human body structure hasn't changed in that time.

    I think it is really hard for a person to accept that they are obese and they cling onto anything they can to try and justify being an unhealthy weight. I am included in this they. I tried to kid myself for years that I simply had a large frame which meant I could still be healthy carrying around that extra weight. Once I got down to a healthy BMI I finally came to the realisation that my frame is anything but large. I was simply overweight.

    It probably has to do with obesity being portrayed as a character flaw, not just a health risk. From a different perspective, as someone who has no self-esteem issues related to weight, I knew I was fat all along I just didn't care. Now, I know I'm still fat, and I prefer it. I don't feel the need to justify wanting to be an overweight BMI by saying I'm big boned (I actually am, but I'm also fat) because I don't feel it's something I need to be ashamed of.

    This is why, personal opinion only, I don't like the BMI tool, because I did feel ashamed. Even as a nurse, telling people who look over weight, yeah fat, that they are morbidly obese feels terrible. Before I started here two years ago my BMI was morbidly obese. I also have g cup breasts Which are pretty damn heavy and hard on my back (Only lost one cup size after losing 17kg mind you), it was embarrassing because to look at me yes I was over weight, fat, I held my weight Differently as everyone does, obese, yeah OK, but Being told I was morbidly obese, when all we see is the stereotype of morbid obesity, can't move off the couch, chronically ill Etc it really did a number on my self esteem. I guess Everyone's entitled to disagree with our opinion, doesn't mean It's wrong for us. I have 10kg to go, I'm doing it for me and my health not because some scale says so.
  • samhenningssamhennings Posts: 440Member Member Posts: 440Member Member
    I wonder what exactly people are disagreeing with, that feeling bad about something can skew our perception or my belief that being fat is not shameful?

    Who knows?

    I shared my actual experience of how it doesnt work for me, and people disagreed with that.

    Does that mean they all think Im lying? Who knows! MFP has a strange relationship with BMI.

    Youve got a disagree to go with your question - what does that even infer?
  • amusedmonkeyamusedmonkey Posts: 9,590Member Member Posts: 9,590Member Member
    I wonder what exactly people are disagreeing with, that feeling bad about something can skew our perception or my belief that being fat is not shameful?

    Who knows?

    I shared my actual experience of how it doesnt work for me, and people disagreed with that.

    Does that mean they all think Im lying? Who knows! MFP has a strange relationship with BMI.

    Youve got a disagree to go with your question - what does that even infer?

    Yeah, my opinions regarding BMI seem polarizing. It's just that it would be interesting to see the other perspective.
  • samhenningssamhennings Posts: 440Member Member Posts: 440Member Member
    Indeed it would.

    I think, and speaking generally here, weight loss can be a bit of a religious experience.

    Certain things become sacrosanct to people, and so there is a reaction to anything that challenges it.

    Ive had similar response when explaining that I dont weigh/measure everything and still lose the weight I want on schedule.

    BMI seems to be another.

    I think, logically, if something like BMI is designed to be used on populations, then the outliers above/below the line cancel each other off and its a pretty reliable formula.

    But the fact it has that interaction, by definition, suggests its not ideal as a blanket thing for all individuals.

    There are a lot of outliers, and as my case shows, you dont need to be an 18st of hulking muscle Rugby player to fit that profile. I am very simply short and stocky, and BMI falls over completely for me.

  • neugebauer52neugebauer52 Posts: 843Member Member Posts: 843Member Member
    "Obese" does not necessarily mean "unhealthy".
  • kq1981kq1981 Posts: 1,050Member Member Posts: 1,050Member Member
    I wonder what exactly people are disagreeing with, that feeling bad about something can skew our perception or my belief that being fat is not shameful?

    16 people disagreed with my opinion and only one person explained their thought which was really insightful. Not sure about the disagree yet lol there's always something
  • kq1981kq1981 Posts: 1,050Member Member Posts: 1,050Member Member
    kq1981 wrote: »
    I wonder what exactly people are disagreeing with, that feeling bad about something can skew our perception or my belief that being fat is not shameful?

    16 people disagreed with my opinion and only one person explained their thought which was really insightful. Not sure about the disagree yet lol there's always something

    What tends to happen with the ex-woo now disagree button is that as people read along they will see a reply that they disagree with, think of a reply, then see that a reply has been made saying what they were going to say in disagreement, more or less. They will then go back, hit disagree then follow with a like.

    Where paperpudding did a fuller explanation of the use of BMI and being a nurse, she got the likes to counter the disagrees you got.

    You followed her post agreeing with her, saying it was more in line with what you were trying to convey.

    Using the disagree and like buttons in this way saves a lot of people piling up on you saying the same thing over and over x16 again. Never mind the 20+ then saying why they liked paperpudding’s reply.

    I have been neutral in this and haven’t liked or disagreed with you.

    Cheers, h.

    Thanks for replying, you make great points. I wasn't being defensive or having a sook, the post below mine was great. I have read lots of reply's that people have disagreed with, on other topics too, and I find people's perspectives interesting and sometimes confusing depending on the context.
  • john_not_typicaljohn_not_typical Posts: 35Member Member Posts: 35Member Member
    PAV8888 wrote: »
    I think you need to ask your doctor what they think. I was obese at one time on the BMI scale and my doctor told me not to lose more weight. He told me don’t become one of those cyclists with eating disorders to lose more weight. It really depends on the person.

    Are you more obese now, or less obese now than when your doctor saw you and said the above? Are you a cyclist? Do you have an eating disorder? If you did lose more weight did it hurt you in any way?

    What you relay above sounds as if it's either missing part of the conversation or else your doctor's comment, as relayed, sounds like an off the cuff comment as opposed to a medical opinion. If a doctor said the above to me I would be very tempted to ask them if this was their professional opinion and ask for their reasoning for rendering such an opinion...

    My doctor said based on my frame size and blood work I should not lose more weight. He told me he would write a letter to my insurance company saying I was at a healthy weight if I needed one. As a biomedical engineer that used to work clinically with doctors all the time, I found his explanation to make sense. Yes, I bike either inside or outside just about every single day, if for no other reason than arthritis relief.

    He was not the first doctor to tell me this so I believe it. I also recently had surgery that didn't end up the way we had planned because according to one of the doctors "there's just no room in there."

    I did lose a little more weight (not really trying to at the time) and I don't think it had any real effect on my health, but I got very sick after that in a way completely unrelated to weight loss or gain so I suppose I'll never know.

    He told me my bones and muscles were very large and my body fat percentage was appropriate for my age.

    I have never had an eating disorder.

  • threewinsthreewins Posts: 33Member Member Posts: 33Member Member
    There is a different BMI type calculation which uses height to the power of 2.5. Back in the day when BMI was invented powers of non-integers were hard to calculate, square is much easier.

    The equivalent calculation is 1.3 * weight / height ^ 2.5, this gives a number about 0.8 lower than the normal calculation for my body, I'm 183 cm tall.

    People can read about the new calculation here:

    https://people.maths.ox.ac.uk/trefethen/bmi.html

    There are a number of other indexes I've come across over the years, probably the most sophisticated which uses the height difference between shoulders and hips, and other measurements.
  • amusedmonkeyamusedmonkey Posts: 9,590Member Member Posts: 9,590Member Member
    threewins wrote: »
    There is a different BMI type calculation which uses height to the power of 2.5. Back in the day when BMI was invented powers of non-integers were hard to calculate, square is much easier.

    The equivalent calculation is 1.3 * weight / height ^ 2.5, this gives a number about 0.8 lower than the normal calculation for my body, I'm 183 cm tall.

    People can read about the new calculation here:

    https://people.maths.ox.ac.uk/trefethen/bmi.html

    There are a number of other indexes I've come across over the years, probably the most sophisticated which uses the height difference between shoulders and hips, and other measurements.

    Interesting. I must be in some goldilocks zone because both numbers are exactly the same for me.
  • DanpDanp Posts: 1,148Member Member Posts: 1,148Member Member
    threewins wrote: »
    There is a different BMI type calculation which uses height to the power of 2.5. Back in the day when BMI was invented powers of non-integers were hard to calculate, square is much easier.

    The equivalent calculation is 1.3 * weight / height ^ 2.5, this gives a number about 0.8 lower than the normal calculation for my body, I'm 183 cm tall.

    People can read about the new calculation here:

    https://people.maths.ox.ac.uk/trefethen/bmi.html

    There are a number of other indexes I've come across over the years, probably the most sophisticated which uses the height difference between shoulders and hips, and other measurements.

    Interesting. I must be in some goldilocks zone because both numbers are exactly the same for me.

    The difference is there but it isn't massive. About 4kg (~10lbs) or thereabouts for my height at 183cm (6 foot).

    On the new scale 'Overweight' starts at 104kg (229lbs) and ends at 88kg (194lbs) with 87kg (192lbs) being 'Healthy' whereas the old scale Overweight starts 100kg (220lbs) and goes to 84kg (185lbs) with 83kg (182lbs) being top of 'Healthy'
    edited September 11
  • LKArghLKArgh Posts: 5,085Member Member Posts: 5,085Member Member
    kq1981 wrote: »
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    I am an RN and I do like the BMI tool - used in conjunction with clinical picture, ie seeing the actual patient.

    Is usually blatantly obvious whether somebody has a very high BMI because they are have an unusual muscle mass, ie elite body builders - or they are plain old fat.

    Yes I've seen people who are fit and healthy and BMI says overweight too - usually young active men who have a BMI of 27 or so.
    They are the demographic often just above upper limits and still healthy.

    Young women with BMI over 30,( ie OP) much less likely to be healthy weight.
    Highly unlikely her BMI does not reflect true obesity, or at least significant overweight. As I said before.

    The fact that BMI was first invented in 1830's doesn't change its validity. Maths hasn't changed and human body structure hasn't changed in that time.

    I think it is really hard for a person to accept that they are obese and they cling onto anything they can to try and justify being an unhealthy weight. I am included in this they. I tried to kid myself for years that I simply had a large frame which meant I could still be healthy carrying around that extra weight. Once I got down to a healthy BMI I finally came to the realisation that my frame is anything but large. I was simply overweight.

    It probably has to do with obesity being portrayed as a character flaw, not just a health risk. From a different perspective, as someone who has no self-esteem issues related to weight, I knew I was fat all along I just didn't care. Now, I know I'm still fat, and I prefer it. I don't feel the need to justify wanting to be an overweight BMI by saying I'm big boned (I actually am, but I'm also fat) because I don't feel it's something I need to be ashamed of.

    This is why, personal opinion only, I don't like the BMI tool, because I did feel ashamed. Even as a nurse, telling people who look over weight, yeah fat, that they are morbidly obese feels terrible. Before I started here two years ago my BMI was morbidly obese. I also have g cup breasts Which are pretty damn heavy and hard on my back (Only lost one cup size after losing 17kg mind you), it was embarrassing because to look at me yes I was over weight, fat, I held my weight Differently as everyone does, obese, yeah OK, but Being told I was morbidly obese, when all we see is the stereotype of morbid obesity, can't move off the couch, chronically ill Etc it really did a number on my self esteem. I guess Everyone's entitled to disagree with our opinion, doesn't mean It's wrong for us. I have 10kg to go, I'm doing it for me and my health not because some scale says so.

    Was it though the BMI or the label the issue? If you were being essentially labelled "fat" by whatever other tool, would it have changed anything?
  • amusedmonkeyamusedmonkey Posts: 9,590Member Member Posts: 9,590Member Member
    Danp wrote: »
    threewins wrote: »
    There is a different BMI type calculation which uses height to the power of 2.5. Back in the day when BMI was invented powers of non-integers were hard to calculate, square is much easier.

    The equivalent calculation is 1.3 * weight / height ^ 2.5, this gives a number about 0.8 lower than the normal calculation for my body, I'm 183 cm tall.

    People can read about the new calculation here:

    https://people.maths.ox.ac.uk/trefethen/bmi.html

    There are a number of other indexes I've come across over the years, probably the most sophisticated which uses the height difference between shoulders and hips, and other measurements.

    Interesting. I must be in some goldilocks zone because both numbers are exactly the same for me.

    The difference is there but it isn't massive. About 4kg (~10lbs) or thereabouts for my height at 183cm (6 foot).

    On the new scale 'Overweight' starts at 104kg (229lbs) and ends at 88kg (194lbs) with 87kg (192lbs) being 'Healthy' whereas the old scale Overweight starts 100kg (220lbs) and goes to 84kg (185lbs) with 83kg (182lbs) being top of 'Healthy'

    Even ranges are spot on for me 18.5-25 are exactly the weights regular BMI calculators give me

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