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Fat - not carbs - addictive?

magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 729Member Member Posts: 729Member Member
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1028415X.2019.1651104?fbclid=IwAR3rbk_N08iMgLoHBv6S0bMWhEvAnYy2QU9AmMH6Fm6s7u33QzMmlqb2VpQ&needAccess=true&journalCode=ynns20
Fat rather than sugar diet leads to binge-type eating, anticipation, effort behavior and activation of the corticolimbic system
Results: In corticolimbic areas, c-Fos activation and ΔFosB accumulation were evaluated. After an acute exposition, rats ate more SRD than FRD, but FDR stimulated higher c-Fos. After chronic administration, the FDR group exhibited higher levels of BTE and FAA; this was associated with higher c-Fos and accumulation of ΔFosB in the corticolimbic system. Similar effects in the FRD group were observed after one week of withdrawal.
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  • magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 729Member Member Posts: 729Member Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Rat study aside, cheese and nuts were issues for me, plain carbs never were. Plain carbs are about the last foods I'd ever have difficulty controlling (I love fruit and veg, but won't overindulge to the point of it being an issue, and with things like plain bread, plain pasta, plain rice, plain grains, my reaction is eh. With foods other than fruit that are basically just sugar, no fat, my reaction ranges from eh to ugh).

    However, cheese and nuts tend to be salty (I have much more trouble moderating salted nuts than not). I tend to think in humans it's mostly about combinations that work together (fat+salt, fat+carb+salt, fat+sugar, protein+fat+salt). Didn't one of those "food addiction" studies come up with pizza on the top -- fat, carbs, and often salty too (and some protein).

    The study does point out that it is combinations that cause highly palatable foods. It seems more like the study is designed to test relative contributions - the one diet was 50% sugar rich and the other was 50% fat rich. The 50% fat diet is the one that produced binging behavior and food anticipation.
  • kimothyschmakimothyschma Posts: 203Member Member Posts: 203Member Member
    It doesn’t sound crazy or anything. Cheese used to be a huge problem for me. I can see it. Any time I have a day where I over eat and I’m way in the red, if I check the macros it’s always the fat that’s over.
    edited August 21
  • CSARdiverCSARdiver Posts: 5,921Member Member Posts: 5,921Member Member
    Makes sense. Years ago I watched a lot of the >10k calorie/day challenges and this was a common theme. Those successful in the challenge moved from sweet to salty and back, but all focused on high fat foods.

    Those who attempted to eat a lot of only sweets or only salty ended up sick and unable to finish the challenge.
  • macchiattomacchiatto Posts: 2,862Member Member Posts: 2,862Member Member
    Interesting. I got a "website is experiencing technical difficulties" message so I'm not able to read the article. For me sugar is a lot more likely to lead to binge-eating and strong cravings but I wonder if that's related to being insulin-resistant.
    edited August 23
  • ExistingFishExistingFish Posts: 873Member Member Posts: 873Member Member
    I don't find this to be the case for me. I could eat my weight in crackers, cereal, chips, soda...and GUMMY BEARS, all particularly low or no fat foods.

    Fatty foods don't seem to have the same effect.

    But I also have never experienced binge type eating tendencies. It's more a handful of crackers here, a few extra chips after I finish my sandwich, another handful of crackers next time I walk through the kitchen, then another because that was a small handful...etc etc.

    Even when it comes to candy, I will keep shoveling gummy bears forever. Something like chocolate, which some fat, I can stop much easier.
    edited August 31
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Posts: 3,144Member Member Posts: 3,144Member Member
    I don't find this to be the case for me. I could eat my weight in crackers, cereal, chips, soda...and GUMMY BEARS, all particularly low or no fat foods.

    Fatty foods don't seem to have the same effect.

    But I also have never experienced binge type eating tendencies. It's more a handful of crackers here, a few extra chips after I finish my sandwich, another handful of crackers next time I walk through the kitchen, then another because that was a small handful...etc etc.

    Even when it comes to candy, I will keep shoveling gummy bears forever. Something like chocolate, which some fat, I can stop much easier.

    I'm the opposite -- foods that are mostly just carbs are hard for me to overeat and often don't appeal at all -- but I think this just supports the idea that humans tend to vary quite a bit on what they tend to find hard not to overindulge on. While I think there might be something to certain combinations being the toughest to avoid overeating on average, I'd bet that for humans it's much more about history and associations with the foods, taste preferences, habits, family and culture, etc., than any purely physical reaction to anything we eat.

    One way humans are likely different from rats, although even rats are more likely to show addictive behaviors in some environments vs. others.
  • SnifterPugSnifterPug Posts: 104Member Member Posts: 104Member Member
    This is not really the case for me. I have no problem eating in a calorie deficit if my fat intake is on the high side and my carbs are low. 128g carbs, 128g protein, 58g fat was a fairly low calorie day for me recently and I had no issues with hunger at all. However, if you put me in front of unlimited pasta with a tomato based sauce it is horrendous how much of it I want to eat.
  • michaeldevine545michaeldevine545 Posts: 4Member Member Posts: 4Member Member
    This article is very misleading. High fat foods in the absence or near absence of carbs has been proven to increase satiety leading to reduction in eating. I am not at home at the moment to cite research but it is extremely easy to find. As for fat being the cause of heart issues that had also been debunked. It is a combination of high fat and high carbs because your body cannot effectively utilize both at the same time.
  • magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 729Member Member Posts: 729Member Member
    This article is very misleading. High fat foods in the absence or near absence of carbs has been proven to increase satiety leading to reduction in eating. I am not at home at the moment to cite research but it is extremely easy to find. As for fat being the cause of heart issues that had also been debunked. It is a combination of high fat and high carbs because your body cannot effectively utilize both at the same time.

    How is it misleading? The methodology explains exactly how they did it. The point is to test fat versus sugar in actually hyperpalatable consistencies, not eating them alone.
  • SarahAnne3958SarahAnne3958 Posts: 53Member Member Posts: 53Member Member
    I transitioned from a high carb/low fat way of eating, to a low carb/high fat way of eating and neither macros splits caused binge eating or out of control food cravings for me. I do find that the lower carb/higher fat ratio keeps me satiated longer, but I know others do well with a higher carb macros split. It seems pretty individual, and it's also not factoring in protein consumption, which I think plays a significant role in all of this.
    edited September 13
  • VioletRojoVioletRojo Posts: 556Member, Premium Member Posts: 556Member, Premium Member
    It's true for me. If the high fat food is salty, so much the better.
  • psychod787psychod787 Posts: 2,295Member, Premium Member Posts: 2,295Member, Premium Member
    I don't find this to be the case for me. I could eat my weight in crackers, cereal, chips, soda...and GUMMY BEARS, all particularly low or no fat foods.

    Fatty foods don't seem to have the same effect.

    But I also have never experienced binge type eating tendencies. It's more a handful of crackers here, a few extra chips after I finish my sandwich, another handful of crackers next time I walk through the kitchen, then another because that was a small handful...etc etc.

    Even when it comes to candy, I will keep shoveling gummy bears forever. Something like chocolate, which some fat, I can stop much easier.

    Chips are a high fat food... unless they are baked. Mine is sweet and fat. Ice cream..
  • psychod787psychod787 Posts: 2,295Member, Premium Member Posts: 2,295Member, Premium Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    High fat foods in the absence or near absence of carbs has been proven to increase satiety leading to reduction in eating.

    The studies I've seen are about going to a very low carb/keto diet that ALSO increases protein. It is not surprising that increasing protein and changing your diet so significantly that you have to cut out most of the foods many overeat and start from scratch for those kinds of items tend to decrease calories without counting at first. That's not necessarily about satiety at all. (I do think for many but not all very low carb does tend to make people less interested in food or less hungry, but often the switch is less from plain carbs and certainly not less processed carbs with more fiber, but from foods that are high in fat and carbs).

    It is true that fat in and of itself is not considered a problem anymore, but sat fat is still considered a food that should be limited:

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2016/12/19/saturated-fat-regardless-of-type-found-linked-with-increased-heart-disease-risk/

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/frank-sacks-swap-saturated-fats-for-healthier-fats/

    Yes, increased protein. Most carbs coming from higher fiber sources. Double whammy. Though, in some of the research I have read, ketosis will blunt appetite a little more than would be expected. I will have to go dig them up and post them. I also suspect the absence of a macro plays in as well. How fun is icecream without the sweetness?
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Posts: 34,970Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium MFP Moderator Posts: 34,970Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium MFP Moderator
    This article is very misleading. High fat foods in the absence or near absence of carbs has been proven to increase satiety leading to reduction in eating. I am not at home at the moment to cite research but it is extremely easy to find. As for fat being the cause of heart issues that had also been debunked. It is a combination of high fat and high carbs because your body cannot effectively utilize both at the same time.

    What type of foods are you referring to? Also, butter and oils have some of the lowest satiety scores.

    Source: https://nutritiondata.self.com/topics/fullness-factor
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