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Thoughts on the “glamourizing/normalizing” obesity vs body positivity conversations
Replies
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Not entirely sure what's being discussed here but I'm always down for usage of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs in regular conversation so kudos @LovelyChar4
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I know you claim to be a mental health professional but you lost all credibility and I'm embarrassed for you. My Bachelor's Degree is in psychology. Let me educate you! All aspects under the color yellow titled Love and Belonging fall under socialization, every single one. Not seeing the actual word 'socialization' must have confused you tremendously. Friendship,intimacy, family, sense of connection[ that fall under the yellow category of 'Love and Belonging' all require socialization. Socialization is a need in order to achieve esteem and self-actualization. Are you able to understand that? Maybe you should read research on how a lack of socialization can...
You’re entitled to feel that way, but I don’t need you to educate me and I don’t need to throw my degree around.
I understand socialization is necessary for a sense of love and belonging. I said socialization wasn’t a basic need and it would create problems if the government tried to ration our food as they have our ability to socialize in our preferred way. (This was a response to prior debate in the thread). “Socialization being illegal” during the pandemic was compared to people in solitary confinement... they are far different. We still have the ability to socialize, maybe not in the way we prefer.7 -
I know you claim to be a mental health professional but you lost all credibility and I'm embarrassed for you. My Bachelor's Degree is in psychology. Let me educate you! All aspects under the color yellow titled Love and Belonging fall under socialization, every single one. Not seeing the actual word 'socialization' must have confused you tremendously. Friendship,intimacy, family, sense of connection[ that fall under the yellow category of 'Love and Belonging' all require socialization. Socialization is a need in order to achieve esteem and self-actualization. Are you able to understand that? Maybe you should read research on how a lack of socialization can...
You’re entitled to feel that way, but I don’t need you to educate me and I don’t need to throw my degree around.
I understand socialization is necessary for a sense of love and belonging. I said socialization wasn’t a basic need and it would create problems if the government tried to ration our food as they have our ability to socialize in our preferred way. (This was a response to prior debate in the thread). “Socialization being illegal” during the pandemic was compared to people in solitary confinement... they are far different. We still have the ability to socialize, maybe not in the way we prefer.
Yes, my brother, who is mentally ill, has been in true solitary confinement.
What we are experiencing during the pandemic is not at all the same.9 -
It’s funny to me, having been homeschooled, to hear so many people downplaying limited socialization. We got SO many comments and lectures on how we were being and would be permanently socially damaged, unable to find good jobs or have healthy relationships, none of which actually became true. It’s a silver lining, at least, to hear the opposite tune being sung by society now, or that different kinds or levels of socialization may not end in complete social dysfunction.8
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I thought of this thread when this article came across my feed on Google. I hope the poster, SiberianT, does not return. She wasn’t cool.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1255408
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L1zardQueen wrote: »I thought of this thread when this article came across my feed on Google. I hope the poster, SiberianT, does not return. She wasn’t cool.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1255408
Thanks for sharing this article! Found it interesting, and so fitting for the recent topic in this thread.
I was just given a (possible) opportunity to get vaccinated (military) and declined since I feel like the roll out has been a bit butchered. I know part of this is due to demand. But knowing my 70+ y/o MIL has been really looking forward to getting vaccinated but hasn’t been given the opportunity, (she was going to look further into this), it didn’t feel right to take a really valuable vaccine when there’s people who would have greater benefit at this time. At 31, no serious health conditions, overall “healthy” weight, unemployed, and no serious “high risk” factors... I felt there were others out there that could really benefit from it right now, and I could wait a bit longer until it becomes a bit more accessible. I’m all for a “fat person” having my dose! Lol
ETA: I agree with your second statement as well...2 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »I thought of this thread when this article came across my feed on Google. I hope the poster, SiberianT, does not return. She wasn’t cool.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1255408
Even though I didn't agree with them, I guess she has the same right to her opinions as anyone else. 🤷♀️
I do agree with keeping the obesity factor in the prioritization as a potential co-morbidity. It is one, and I don't think of it as shameful/blameful. Emphysema is still a potential co-morbidity, for example, even if some individuals probably got it from smoking (or at least materially increased their risk of emphysema that way). Heck, I have a potential co-morbidity (that I didn't report when putting myself in the vaccine queue BTW): I have early COPD. Probably I wouldn't have it if I had nobly decided not to live most of my life with people who were smokers. (They're both dead. One - husband - died of something that quite possibly was at least exacerbated, if not caused, by smoking.)
That said, I feel like the article you linked goes a little far itself in some spots, and I say that as someone who was obese for 30 years or so myself, and who agrees with the points about poverty, trauma, etc., as issues related to obesity in a societal sense.
For example, the article says "It’s not at all clear that being clinically obese correlates with poor health". I think there are pretty strong correlations between obesity and worrisome health conditions, if not a tightly proven case that obesity is a cause. Even in cases where someone has good health markers at the moment, it can be that the consequences of excess weight haven't come home to roost, yet. In reality, the fact that obese people are more likely to die of Covid (or more likely to need to be put on a ventilator, even if surviving) is itself a health consequence of obesity. The correlation of obesity with various dangerous health conditions is a statistical thing, not "proof" . . . but likewise so is the correlation of obesity with worse Covid outcomes. IMO, the writer is making asymmetric arguments here.
And someone who (unironically?) types " . . .some of us live comfortably, donning Lululemon yoga pants and sipping our celery juice after a safe run through our neighborhood . . ." while essentially saying we shouldn't be stereotyping or shaming people? Hmm.6 -
My point was from that of compassion.6
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L1zardQueen wrote: »I thought of this thread when this article came across my feed on Google. I hope the poster, SiberianT, does not return. She wasn’t cool.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1255408
That sounds like a dangerous position to take because you disagree with someone.4 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »My point was from that of compassion.
I understand. The focus on scapegoating fat people for everything bad that is now going on was disturbing.9 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »My point was from that of compassion.
I don't disagree with that at all, in fact I do agree. It's unreasonable and inappropriate to blame fat people for the pandemic, or for the restrictions.
I just disagree with with some of the perspectives in the linked article, despite agreeing with its core point (as I read it) that it's appropriate for obese people to be at a higher priority for vaccinations than otherwise similar people who are not obese.
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It was a crappy article and it was click bait. I thought it would be about compassion but as I read along, it wasn’t that at all.8
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It depends on culture as well...many cultures define extra weight as a symbol of wealth etc...and some cultures like Japan have rules about being under a certain weight especially in a corporate world. Airplanes used to have much bigger seats in the past though
, nowadays its just about making more money with more passengers so even people at a healthy weight find it uncomfortable with such little space in an airplane seat. When I see someone obese or overweight ( I am very overweight myself ) I just think, that they know how big they are , and that they are probably wanting to do something about it...and either don't have the motivation or are in an unhealthy environment at home or mentally. For me it was circumstantial depression, so I needed to pull myself out of it somehow, but with no one supportive around me I came to MFP! This whole community , if it was a city or a country, would have such mentally and physically supportive and healthy citizens! 6 -
I mean, I don't pay as much attention as I used to, but I don't see many (if any) magazines putting 350lb women on the cover, certainly not health or fashion related publications. Most "plus-size" models are just in the overweight range, and it's rare to see them on the cover of anything, except as a token "here, don't tell us we don't represent real women anymore, okay?" one off. There have been one or two actresses I can remember off the top of my head that did a lot of publicity at one point with the requisite admiration for their beauty, but no one holding them up as examples of good health.
ETA: One of the reasons Ashley Graham gets so much media attention and controversy is because she is unique. Her weight is always being praised/criticized/argued about, and I'm not even sure if she is technically obese or not.
I think they mean a Tess Holiday with those stats. It would make sense I remember for a short time a while ago she was on magazine covers and tv adds but she is definitely a good example of the body positivity gone too far.3 -
I find the community here supportive as long as the person who needs it actually is accepting. I've seen some that search out for support, is given solid advice, then react negatively back because they aren't hearing what they want. Personally for me, I ain't got time for that. There are so many more people that want help and toSunnyBunBun79 wrote: »It depends on culture as well...many cultures define extra weight as a symbol of wealth etc...and some cultures like Japan have rules about being under a certain weight especially in a corporate world. Airplanes used to have much bigger seats in the past though , nowadays its just about making more money with more passengers so even people at a healthy weight find it uncomfortable with such little space in an airplane seat. When I see someone obese or overweight ( I am very overweight myself ) I just think, that they know how big they are , and that they are probably wanting to do something about it...and either don't have the motivation or are in an unhealthy environment at home or mentally. For me it was circumstantial depression, so I needed to pull myself out of it somehow, but with no one supportive around me I came to MFP! This whole community , if it was a city or a country, would have such mentally and physically supportive and healthy citizens!
go outta my way to try to assist someone, who asked for it but rejects the advice.....................good luck.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I find the community here supportive as long as the person who needs it actually is accepting. I've seen some that search out for support, is given solid advice, then react negatively back because they aren't hearing what they want. Personally for me, I ain't got time for that. There are so many more people that want help and toSunnyBunBun79 wrote: »It depends on culture as well...many cultures define extra weight as a symbol of wealth etc...and some cultures like Japan have rules about being under a certain weight especially in a corporate world. Airplanes used to have much bigger seats in the past though , nowadays its just about making more money with more passengers so even people at a healthy weight find it uncomfortable with such little space in an airplane seat. When I see someone obese or overweight ( I am very overweight myself ) I just think, that they know how big they are , and that they are probably wanting to do something about it...and either don't have the motivation or are in an unhealthy environment at home or mentally. For me it was circumstantial depression, so I needed to pull myself out of it somehow, but with no one supportive around me I came to MFP! This whole community , if it was a city or a country, would have such mentally and physically supportive and healthy citizens!
go outta my way to try to assist someone, who asked for it but rejects the advice.....................good luck.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Maybe I have just been lucky enough to have met the soundly informative and friendly ones Haha! It was an adventure for me as well at first, having so many contradictory opinions and advice thrown at me, and I admit I listened to the ones that had the best 'lose weight fast' results. That was 7 years ago! I see a lot more sound advice nowadays on MFP. Sometimes the seed has been sown and even though it looks like someone doesnt like what they hear...they will eventually learn... either the easy or the hard way...Ive also learned to be picky with the friends I choose on here. If people like you and so many others with sound advice didnt stick around, MFP wouldnt be what it is today .7 -
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For me, it’s the “healthy at any size” campaign that bothers me. There is sound research that being overweight or underweight can seriously affect health outcomes.
I believe in “beauty at any size.” And that all people need to be treated with respect; feel valued and be heard.
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For me, it’s the “healthy at any size” campaign that bothers me. There is sound research that being overweight or underweight can seriously affect health outcomes.
I believe in “beauty at any size.” And that all people need to be treated with respect; feel valued and be heard.
Agree, PHYSICALLY healthy at any size just isn't true.4 -
I really think the "healthy at any size" slogan means two different things, one which I disagree with, and one which I think is positive.
The one I disagree with: (1) The health claims re obesity have been exaggerated and are just based in prejudice. The gov't should not make combating obesity an aim, as that just stigmatizes people. This is IMO untrue, so bad for that reason alone, and I also think it's harmful.
The one I think is positive: (2) (This should perhaps be called "healthier at any size" but I've definitely seen it discussed under the "healthy at any size" label.) No matter how obese you may be, you can start working on things today that will improve your health, and there are ways to focus on health other than simply losing weight (although losing weight is not discouraged). Those would include increasing activity, eating a more healthful diet (say cutting out some low nutrient high cal foods and/or adding in more vegetables or whatever else is lacking in the diet), and working on food issues (such as binging behaviors or all or nothing thinking or emotional eating). In many cases, I see this idea as helpful for people who are so frustrated with dieting and past failures that they are ready to give up entirely, and by some RDs who believe that focusing more on just weight and eating less tends to be unsustainable or lead to unhealthy things like self-hatred-driven crash dieting. I think this also goes along with the "body positivity" movement, which I don't think means "I should not try to make my body healthier," but the opposite.
People in camp (2) don't at all want to discourage people from losing weight, and typically think that if one focuses on these healthier practices one will lose weight if one is obese, although the goal is generally not some specific aesthetic. They also recognize that if one has a variety of things one could focus on and improve health, it is okay to pick one other than "getting to a healthy weight" as the one to prioritize right now.9
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