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Thoughts on the “glamourizing/normalizing” obesity vs body positivity conversations

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  • siberiantarragonsiberiantarragon Member Posts: 75 Member Member Posts: 75 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    So you are using drinking to excess as a coping mechanism / to self medicate. (I'm not judging - I used to do that myself.)

    Is it so hard to imagine that during these stressful times others are using food in the same way?

    No, you misread. When I do drink, I drink more than I used to. But I still drink infrequently. For example, this month I've drank three times so far, twice while hanging out with a few friends, and once on NYE with my husband. I didn't drink at all during the restrictive part of the lockdown and if there was another restrictive lockdown I wouldn't drink then either, because that is a negative environment which increases the chance of problem drinking developing. A lot of people became alcoholics during the lockdown, especially with a culture that celebrated "quarantinis" and so on (there should be another thread on the normalization of alcohol abuse in society....)

    Also, I'm a total lightweight (probably because I don't drink that often), so the amounts of alcohol we're talking about is not that much. 3 drinks over the course of a couple of hours is enough to get me pretty drunk, and 5 is in "can barely stand up" and "hangover for the entire next day" territory. Five is pretty much my absolute limit of what I can have in a night. In the past I would have 1 or 2 drinks and then the "that's enough" switch would flip in my brain.

    So basically it's more something I have to monitor to make sure it doesn't progress into an issue (especially as I have family members who are alcoholics), and if it does show signs of progressing, then I have to stop drinking entirely. It's annoying that I now have to monitor it, whereas I didn't have to before, and it would be annoying to have to give up alcohol. But it's not currently endangering my health or anyone else's health or increasing my risk of dying of COVID or other causes. So it's not the same thing as what we're talking about with obesity and overwhelming the healthcare system.

    edited January 11
  • siberiantarragonsiberiantarragon Member Posts: 75 Member Member Posts: 75 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a global pandemic that turned the daily life of most people completely upside down and then sideways could result in other priorities taking over their regular exercise routine. My wife and I are pretty health nutty and movers...we both put on weight in 2020...I put on about 15 Lbs. We tried to keep moving, and have to an extent, but things were completely different and we ultimately had bigger fish to fry. Having an 8 and 10 year old at home that have been doing online learning and unable to see their friends for 9 months is a massive "take care of their mental health" task...being in one of the strictest lockdowns in the nation for 9 months has also taken a mental toll on my wife and I...working at home, living at home, hardly leaving home, etc for 9 months is brutal.

    Things are just starting to open up a little bit...you can go to the gym now, but you have to schedule your time...which is nice in the sense that they aren't busy with a scheduled number of people...capacity 25%. Grocery and essentials are still at 25% but at least they eased off of the 25% or 75 people whichever is smaller...still have some lines, but nothing like the hours long lines we were having the last few months just to grocery shop. Retail is now open at 25%...still no indoor dining and limited capacity patio dining...which is basically worthless when the high temps are in the 30s...so mostly carryout if you want to do something like that.

    My wife and I are getting back into things in 2021...but yeah...2020 was rough and completely turned our lives upside down...I'm certainly not going to beat myself up for putting on 15 Lbs while prioritizing other things in a global pandemic.

    Wasn't the entire point of lockdowns to reduce the risk of people dying from COVID-19? If the lockdowns caused people to gain weight, which increases their risk of dying from COVID-19 (as it said in that article I posted, it's the second-biggest risk factor after age), that seems a bit counterproductive, doesn't it? If we had a culture that didn't normalize obesity so much, perhaps this discrepancy would have been recognized. Now we have a whole lot of people who are at higher risk of dying from COVID-19 (and a bunch of other causes) than they were back in March, because they weigh more. And if you point this out, then people get mad at you, because we've been getting this messaging for years that any discussion of the health risks (or public health burden) of obesity amounts to "fat shaming."
    edited January 12
  • siberiantarragonsiberiantarragon Member Posts: 75 Member Member Posts: 75 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    I put on 15 Lbs...I'm not remotely obese...but I had way bigger fish to fry than worrying about my workouts, my weight, etc. My circle of friends are very fit, active, and healthy people...every single one of them, including my trainer has put on a some weight in 2020.

    Then you and your friends are not who this discussion is about. This discussion is about obesity. So I'm not sure why you posted in this thread at all.
    Acknowledging that *kitten* happens, and this is on a global scale and nothing like anyone of this generation has ever lived through...and maybe that just might result in some different priorities isn't normalizing obesity.

    The stated purpose of lockdowns is to prioritize lowering the risk of dying from COVID-19 and overrunning the hospitals. Increasing both the percentage of overweight and obese people, and the overall BMI of those who are overweight/obese, runs counter to that. Obesity should literally have been one of THE top priorities for 2020, judging by the public health goals that were set and stated to us.
    Also, I disagree that the entire point of the lockdowns was to reduce the risk of people dying from COVID...the overwhelming point of the lockdowns was to prevent the overrun of the healthcare system. I've known numerous people now who've had COVID and several who were hospitalized...none of them were even close to obese and were in my age group, which isn't young, but it's not old either.

    Anecdote != data. I've already posted articles from reputable sources stating that studies show obesity is the top risk factor for dying/being hospitalized for COVID-19, after age. Therefore a higher obesity rate increases the risks of hospitals being overrun. And we've seen that play out with countries with lower obesity rates having lower death/hospitalization rates than countries with higher obesity rates, as I've already stated many times and posted evidence to support it.

  • ssarzen1976ssarzen1976 Member, Premium Posts: 28 Member Member, Premium Posts: 28 Member
    Marginalising people is never good, especially with obesity as it can affect mental health.
    In saying that, obesity is not healthy, its been proven and to normalise it will be detrimental.
  • siberiantarragonsiberiantarragon Member Posts: 75 Member Member Posts: 75 Member
    No, the statistics do not bear out what you are saying above, top countries up there with the US in the stats of covid deaths per capita (linkmprovided upstream, easy google) include many with lower obesity than the US, what they have in common is inconsistency of response and perhaps also aging populations, but mostly inconsistency of response.

    Yes, I already cited statistics from Our World in Data. And of course there are many factors which contribute to the death rate, but the point is that obesity is one of the major factors contributing to an increased death rate. Aging population is another but obviously you can't reverse-age people so there's nothing to be done about that.

    Which countries besides the US that are high on this list do you think had "inconsistent COVID response" and in which ways was their response inconsistent compared to, say, Canada?

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
    ''Insane lockdowns'' - your words - does not equal timely lockdowns and co sistency of response in general, which includes things like continually monitoring, high test rates, tightening and loosening measures proactively based on predefined data at a level dictated by scientists, mandatory masks indoors, government not pushing back against the science, etc. Etc.and most of all high compliance.

    How's that working out for California?
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    Wait, whut???? So only fat out-of-shape people can have an opinion on this subject????

    If you're using your personal experience as an anecdotal counterpoint to my argument when you aren't part of the demographic that the argument is about, then it's not relevant to this discussion.
    Nope - the stated purpose of the lockdowns is to slow/prevent the spread of the disease, thus preventing over-running the medical system, thus lowering the death rates, etc. Lowering the death risk is a secondary effect of slowing or eliminating the spread.

    Is it though? Because that was the original stated purpose, yet hospitals all around the world had record low numbers of patients for months, and there was no commensurate easing of restrictions because the messaging changed to "if it saves only one life," etc. There's definitely been more messaging on "saving lives" than on preventing hospitals from being overrun in general.
    qhob_89 wrote: »
    I’m trying to understand why someone who takes such issue with the government dictating how you can socialize, would be okay with them taking such control over things like “mandatory food rationing.” It’s an asinine suggestion that fining or throwing people in jail for being obese will really prevent that problem. People still get DUIs. People still use heroin. People still shoplift. The government rationing our basic needs would create far larger problems while putting very little dent in an obesity problem.

    I'm trying to understand why someone who supports making socializing and working illegal in order to "save lives" would NOT support mandatory food rationing, fines, etc. in order to save lives. Socialization is a basic need and working for a living is necessary, yet both have been rationed for the past year while putting very little dent in our COVID problem. It's necessary to health to socialize, whereas it isn't necessary to health to be obese (quite the opposite actually).

    Of course I don't support fining people for being obese or rationing food, even if it saves lives. But I also don't support making socializing and work illegal to save lives. I'm just pointing out an inconsistency in logic here. Why do most people think the one is ok, but not the other?
    qhob_89 wrote: »
    As I already mentioned, I’m someone who also lives with PTSD and OCD, so I say this with the best of intentions. If you are not already doing so, I urge you to get in touch with your mental health provider. In a couple posts you’ve expressed you’re struggling with your mental health and the lack of socialization that usually helps you cope.

    What mental health provider? A mental health provider over Zoom who is already booked with patients because 25% of the country now want to kill themselves? (https://qz.com/1892349/cdc-depression-and-anxiety-rises-for-us-adults-since-covid-19/) And what advice are they going to give? Getting out and about, and establishing social connections, is a necessary part of treatment for both PTSD and OCD. If that's not allowed, then what advice can they possibly give?
    I feel like you’ve gone down what I like to call “the rabbit hole” and have found comfort in focusing on the fixable “obesity” issue being the larger issue than the overall pandemic and struggle that’s come with it. The “fat people” have given you something to focus on and blame and it’s not healthy or helpful for you, or others.

    No, I'm just pointing out facts that people don't want to hear even though they're supported by evidence. Don't mistake someone having an unpopular opinion with that opinion being based on emotions rather than facts. I think it's a testament to the normalization of obesity in our culture that people are clinging on to their right to be obese much more tightly than they are on their right to socialize and work.
    edited January 20
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