Thoughts on the “glamourizing/normalizing” obesity vs body positivity conversations

LoveyChar · January 2021

Put a smile on your face, do a yoga pose and the fat ladies are healthy with a great mentality, do you really believe everything you read?! This is another sale to "Fat and Fabulous is Fantastic and the Way To Be!"

There's been a plus size model commercial on TV for several months where there's a runway model with fat oozing out everywhere saying "When I walk in a room, all eyes are on me." My thought, of course they are because people are shocked how someone so fat could have so much confidence.

Healthy, you could not convince that being fat is healthy, at least not long term fatness and the effects of it on the body. It's disgusting. I wouldn't buy the garbage lies that those magazines are selling to fools.

I'm not coming back here. I'm getting out for a run. You all have a great day!

gracegettingittogether · January 2021

No, you are mistaken. I’m not in a circle where mask wearing is discouraged.

I do have family members with OCD and anxiety which have shot through the roof during this while gaining weight. I see them panicking over Covid to the point of neurosis, and not even thinking of actions which could mitigate Covid, if they do get it.

I know of many people whose anxiety and depression have skyrocketed, including me, while listening to the news and officials. I am tired of people focusing on things out of their control such as the actions of others and not on actions we can take ourselves. Yes, mask wearing and social distancing, but also losing weight. Mask wearing will help to slow the spread and weight loss to lessen the severity.

I have lost a significant amount of weight, with more to go. I am even so, still obese. I can’t understand why people keep thinking that I am blaming obese people. What benefit of the doubt are you speaking of? Why is it blaming anyone to point out that there are things we can do ourselves to lessen the severity of Covid?

Did I say that fat people are to blame for everything that is evil? Why would I be blaming others for what I do myself? Can I still say that those actions are not helpful and help but not cause the overwhelming of the healthcare system? Absolutely. It is important to state the truth, however inconvenient or unpleasant.

Absolutely lockdowns are caused by official actions. Everyone who has lost their job or business because of them knows this.

There is wide spread fear, anxiety and depression, even if not in your circle. Look up the rates of suicide. I think we should be promoting ways to control the feeling of helplessness that overwhelm so many, instead of neglecting ways to help us manage Covid.

lemurcat2 · January 2021

gracegettingittogether wrote: »

I can’t understand why people keep thinking that I am blaming obese people.

I don't think anyone has said you are. I was speaking about other posts here. And yes, they were blaming fat people for everything bad that has happened as a result of covid.

BuiltLikeAPeep · January 2021

LoveyChar wrote: »

Put a smile on your face, do a yoga pose and the fat ladies are healthy with a great mentality, do you really believe everything you read?! This is another sale to "Fat and Fabulous is Fantastic and the Way To Be!"

There's been a plus size model commercial on TV for several months where there's a runway model with fat oozing out everywhere saying "When I walk in a room, all eyes are on me." My thought, of course they are because people are shocked how someone so fat could have so much confidence.

Healthy, you could not convince that being fat is healthy, at least not long term fatness and the effects of it on the body. It's disgusting. I wouldn't buy the garbage lies that those magazines are selling to fools.

I'm not coming back here. I'm getting out for a run. You all have a great day!

Wow. I don't even know what to say to that.

ninerbuff · January 2021

Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »

At first I was really against these, but then I read the article and I guess they are saying their mentalities are healthy because they are focused on how well their bodies can function and perform, not how they look. I am all for that, but I think if you focus on being the healthiest you are and love yourself you would lose weight to be the best you can be and healthiest you can be. Staying obese is harming yourself.

I am just glad they didn't outright say "I am perfectly healthy and don't want to lose any weight" like Tess Holiday does.

I have to disagree. Yes mental health is important, but our bodies weren't made to function normally when body fat % is 30% or higher. Hence reasons for higher insulin resistance, onset diabetes and flat out plain heart disease. Their bodies would function MUCH better with being 50lbs+ less.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

siberiantarragon · January 2021

lemurcat2 wrote: »

I think this is an odd reading of the current dynamics, especially if you are (as I am thinking you are) in a social circle where masks are generally frowned upon.

All of my friends also follow the mask laws. They have to, or they would be fined thousands of dollars and/or put in jail!

Actually what inspired me to make my initial post in the first place is I know so many people who are obese and have been posting on social media all year about how scared they are of dying of COVID and how anyone who goes out to socialize is a monster and we're literally murdering people by reopening schools and businesses. Yet nine months later, they haven't posted once about weight loss, let alone lost any weight. I would like to point out this hypocrisy to them in real life, but I know they'd just get mad and block me, so I'm posting about it anonymously on a forum

I do think the shutdown situation is bad for mental health, but I don't think it's actually caused by official action -- people in general aren't willing to go out and interact normally. Very few people in my social group are overweight (many are older than me), and yet they are not currently going to be socializing as pre covid. It's not because of fat people, and it's not even because of official action -- it's because it's what they consider responsible.

My state had the highest rate of COVID deaths of almost any place on Earth and restaurants (or what is left of them) were still packed when they reopened. But apart from that, if we didn't have an obesity problem, the death rate would be lower, and people wouldn't be having to take so much responsibility for the health of others.

Yes, as pre covid, it would be better for obese people to lose weight.

And during COVID. People could have lost 50-100 pounds by now (depending on their starting weight) if they had started in March, which means they would be at less risk during this wave of the virus and not be overrunning the hospitals right now.

And if the answer is that you have (and didn't realize any health reasons pre covid) but it takes a while, why not give others the same benefit of the doubt?

Because the few studies done on the matter, and anecdotal evidence, indicate the average person has gained weight during the lockdowns, not lost it. If evidence was coming out indicating that, on average, people had started losing weight, I would not be having this discussion.

but it still took some time before I was in a mental space where I was able to lose. I feel like being understanding of others in that place, and not blaming them for all the evils of the world, is a better approach, personally.

So what if I'm "not in a mental space where I'm able to social distance"? Are people going to be understanding of me, or are they going to blame me for all the evils of the world?

AnnPT77 · January 2021

siberiantarragon wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

I think this is an odd reading of the current dynamics, especially if you are (as I am thinking you are) in a social circle where masks are generally frowned upon.

All of my friends also follow the mask laws. They have to, or they would be fined thousands of dollars and/or put in jail!

Actually what inspired me to make my initial post in the first place is I know so many people who are obese and have been posting on social media all year about how scared they are of dying of COVID and how anyone who goes out to socialize is a monster and we're literally murdering people by reopening schools and businesses. Yet nine months later, they haven't posted once about weight loss, let alone lost any weight. I would like to point out this hypocrisy to them in real life, but I know they'd just get mad and block me, so I'm posting about it anonymously on a forum

I do think the shutdown situation is bad for mental health, but I don't think it's actually caused by official action -- people in general aren't willing to go out and interact normally. Very few people in my social group are overweight (many are older than me), and yet they are not currently going to be socializing as pre covid. It's not because of fat people, and it's not even because of official action -- it's because it's what they consider responsible.

My state had the highest rate of COVID deaths of almost any place on Earth and restaurants (or what is left of them) were still packed when they reopened. But apart from that, if we didn't have an obesity problem, the death rate would be lower, and people wouldn't be having to take so much responsibility for the health of others.

Yes, as pre covid, it would be better for obese people to lose weight.

And during COVID. People could have lost 50-100 pounds by now (depending on their starting weight) if they had started in March, which means they would be at less risk during this wave of the virus and not be overrunning the hospitals right now.

And if the answer is that you have (and didn't realize any health reasons pre covid) but it takes a while, why not give others the same benefit of the doubt?

Because the few studies done on the matter, and anecdotal evidence, indicate the average person has gained weight during the lockdowns, not lost it. If evidence was coming out indicating that, on average, people had started losing weight, I would not be having this discussion.

but it still took some time before I was in a mental space where I was able to lose. I feel like being understanding of others in that place, and not blaming them for all the evils of the world, is a better approach, personally.

So what if I'm "not in a mental space where I'm able to social distance"? Are people going to be understanding of me, or are they going to blame me for all the evils of the world?

"People"? Some will understand and empathize, some won't. The aggressive ones will dominate conversation (which side they're on will vary from context to context). Will there be universal approval of you? No. (And that's true in pretty much all cases, not just yours, and not just this situation.)

It also matters, I think, what your strategies are: There are careful and careless ways for higher social needs people to increase human contact. For example, there are people who are essentially podding with a small group of others, socializing more closely within the group, with agreed-upon rules about contacts outside the group. There are people who are socializing at distance and outdoors (I'm doing some of this, though it's below freezing here), or meeting in large spaces while masked. (I know this is not as satisfying as close contact, touch, etc., and that that matters more to some people than others.)

I don't know how locked down your area is. Here (despite freezing weather) there are still some limited outdoor dining or socializing options available (legally). Many workplaces have (some) people, stores are open with limitations, many things are allowed that don't involve large groups of people close together indoors in one space at the same time. Perhaps your area is more tightly restricted, I don't know. (I'm in Michigan.)

While all of us probably would like it to be possible to be "back to normal", that's not in the cards right now. Beyond that, I think it's not an all or nothing situation in reality, in many places (can't speak for yours), nor are most people's reactions completely all or nothing (more common among the outspoken ones, perhaps).

I do think it's not reasonable (for reasons I made my best shot at explaining a few pages back, so won't repeat), to blame obese people. More of them are dying, yup. Among my acquaintence (can't speak for yours), relatively more of them are staying in, ordering groceries, avoiding other people, and probably less frequently vectoring the virus than some other subgroups. (Frankly, they're mostly less mobile than average under normal circumstances, as a generality.) Are they trying to lose weight? I don't know. Some of them usually are (usually with limited success). This time of year, it seems like almost everyone is trying to lose weight, besides.

I'm sincerely sorry that you're going through what you're going through. I get that things are very difficult for people with high social needs, or with pre-existing cognitive or psychological challenges. I don't know what to do about that. I don't think the best answer for the total population is "just open things up", but that's just me.

siberiantarragon · January 2021

AnnPT77 wrote: »

"People"? Some will understand and empathize, some won't. The aggressive ones will dominate conversation (which side they're on will vary from context to context). Will there be universal approval of you? No. (And that's true in pretty much all cases, not just yours, and not just this situation.)

There's definitely way less social approval of "I can't social distance because of my mental health" vs. "I can't lose weight because of my mental health." Also, people who violate social distancing laws are fined and/or imprisoned, so...yeah, big difference there.

higher social needs people

My social needs have historically been lower than the average person's.

I don't know how locked down your area is. Here (despite freezing weather) there are still some limited outdoor dining or socializing options available (legally). Many workplaces have (some) people, stores are open with limitations, many things are allowed that don't involve large groups of people close together indoors in one space at the same time. Perhaps your area is more tightly restricted, I don't know. (I'm in Michigan.)

Right now we can gather with up to 10 people and we can go to restaurants. (Also I just looked it up and apparently we're supposed to "wear face coverings and stay six feet apart" during indoor gatherings, which my friends and I haven't been doing, so I guess we actually did break the law...oops.)

However, in the spring and summer, we weren't allowed to socialize outside our immediate household and basically everything except grocery stores, pharmacies, and hardware stores was closed. Parks and beaches were also closed for a few months, and even after they reopened they only had 25% capacity. Many people got fined/imprisoned for socializing. My husband and I didn't have an in-person conversation with anyone besides each other between March and August.

What I'm concerned about is that, even though things are ok now, this could all be taken away at any time. A precedent has been set, and hospitalizations are going up, as we are constantly reminded. I can see my friends now, but what about next week?

Also, I would like to meet some new people, especially because we just moved to a new town where we don't know anyone (we had to leave our previous city where all my friends live because crime went up due to the lockdowns, and our car got stolen and smashed up). I don't know how to go about that with everything either closed or social distanced.

There's also still lingering psychological effects from the lockdowns. As I've said, so many people were really awful to me for pointing out the harm caused by the lockdowns and various forms of peoples' hypocrisy when it comes to COVID. Sometimes it was surprising because it was people who I didn't expect would act that way. It's made me not trust people so even when we do meet new people, I don't really know how I will determine who to socialize with. But then, like all humans, I have the biological need to socialize, so I can't just avoid people, either. Having our car stolen didn't help with the whole trusting people thing, either (also, they caught the guy who did it and he got bailed out immediately due to COVID).

I also feel like I've forgotten how to socialize normally and I still feel weird talking to people. Socialization has never come naturally to me, but I've definitely regressed, and I think my husband has regressed even more than I have (he's kind of terrified of people now, and drinks even before a Zoom meetup because of his social anxiety).

As you can imagine, all the health paranoia was awful for my OCD (which is why I spent so much time researching it in the first place, to make sure I wasn't really at that much risk from COVID). I have some strategies for managing hypochondria, but considering it's now socially frowned upon to NOT be a hypochondriac, sometimes it gets overwhelming. It also makes me angry that people are being encouraged to have hypochondria because it's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy and I lost years of my life to it in the past. I definitely considered suicide at many points during the spring and summer, although I think that's become a commonplace thing now.

Also, I've never had a problem with alcohol in my life, but now whenever I drink, I'm not able to stop. I didn't drink at all during the isolation part of the lockdown, and I still don't generally drink unless I'm out with friends. But on the occasions that I do drink, I drink either until there's no more alcohol, or until I can barely stand up, which was never the case before. I think it's somehow related to FOMO or something, like "I have to have the maximum amount of fun now because this could all be gone tomorrow." I still feel like I'm "socially starved."

That's not even getting into all the worries about what's going to happen to society overall. I've been pretty fortunate, like, I don't have to worry about being homeless or anything, but what about the people who do? What about the city where I lived for 21 years which is now collapsing into a crime-infested dumpster? What about the kids who aren't getting an education? What about the people who aren't able to keep away the suicidal thoughts? Is there going to be another Great Depression?

What angers me the most though, is just feeling like there will be no "reckoning" or acknowledgment for any of this. I've followed the rules even though I don't agree with them and they don't actually benefit me, and I've tried to give a factual assessment of all aspects of the situation, and in return, all I've gotten is insults (not from you guys, I'm just talking about in general). Nobody would ever go out of their way to help me, yet I'm expected to help them even though they won't help themselves. I feel like everyone else is "allowed" to be irresponsible but me. People don't get criticized at all by society for their unnecessary unhealthy habits that led to them being at higher risk for COVID, yet I get criticized for wanting things that every human being requires, like interactions with people.

IDK, maybe the "Covidiot shaming culture" has infected me, which is why I feel so angry about the normalization of obesity making this entire thing worse than it had to be. Because everyone else is judging and blaming other people for "not doing the right thing," so, why can't I? I would have rather minded my own business when it came to public health and had everyone else mind theirs. But since everyone else's health is now apparently my responsibility, shouldn't I get a say in how they live their lives?

While all of us probably would like it to be possible to be "back to normal", that's not in the cards right now. Beyond that, I think it's not an all or nothing situation in reality, in many places (can't speak for yours), nor are most people's reactions completely all or nothing (more common among the outspoken ones, perhaps).

But if more people had lost weight earlier in the year, would we currently be having a surge in hospitalizations so large that it overwhelmed the hospitals? That's what I want to know the answer to. Surely more people losing weight would have at least mitigated the surge to some extent.

AnnPT77 · January 2021

siberiantarragon wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

"People"? Some will understand and empathize, some won't. The aggressive ones will dominate conversation (which side they're on will vary from context to context). Will there be universal approval of you? No. (And that's true in pretty much all cases, not just yours, and not just this situation.)

There's definitely way less social approval of "I can't social distance because of my mental health" vs. "I can't lose weight because of my mental health." Also, people who violate social distancing laws are fined and/or imprisoned, so...yeah, big difference there.

higher social needs people

My social needs have historically been lower than the average person's.

I don't know how locked down your area is. Here (despite freezing weather) there are still some limited outdoor dining or socializing options available (legally). Many workplaces have (some) people, stores are open with limitations, many things are allowed that don't involve large groups of people close together indoors in one space at the same time. Perhaps your area is more tightly restricted, I don't know. (I'm in Michigan.)

Right now we can gather with up to 10 people and we can go to restaurants. (Also I just looked it up and apparently we're supposed to "wear face coverings and stay six feet apart" during indoor gatherings, which my friends and I haven't been doing, so I guess we actually did break the law...oops.)

However, in the spring and summer, we weren't allowed to socialize outside our immediate household and basically everything except grocery stores, pharmacies, and hardware stores was closed. Parks and beaches were also closed for a few months, and even after they reopened they only had 25% capacity. Many people got fined/imprisoned for socializing. My husband and I didn't have an in-person conversation with anyone besides each other between March and August.

What I'm concerned about is that, even though things are ok now, this could all be taken away at any time. A precedent has been set, and hospitalizations are going up, as we are constantly reminded. I can see my friends now, but what about next week?

Also, I would like to meet some new people, especially because we just moved to a new town where we don't know anyone (we had to leave our previous city where all my friends live because crime went up due to the lockdowns, and our car got stolen and smashed up). I don't know how to go about that with everything either closed or social distanced.

There's also still lingering psychological effects from the lockdowns. As I've said, so many people were really awful to me for pointing out the harm caused by the lockdowns and various forms of peoples' hypocrisy when it comes to COVID. Sometimes it was surprising because it was people who I didn't expect would act that way. It's made me not trust people so even when we do meet new people, I don't really know how I will determine who to socialize with. But then, like all humans, I have the biological need to socialize, so I can't just avoid people, either. Having our car stolen didn't help with the whole trusting people thing, either (also, they caught the guy who did it and he got bailed out immediately due to COVID).

I also feel like I've forgotten how to socialize normally and I still feel weird talking to people. Socialization has never come naturally to me, but I've definitely regressed, and I think my husband has regressed even more than I have (he's kind of terrified of people now, and drinks even before a Zoom meetup because of his social anxiety).

As you can imagine, all the health paranoia was awful for my OCD (which is why I spent so much time researching it in the first place, to make sure I wasn't really at that much risk from COVID). I have some strategies for managing hypochondria, but considering it's now socially frowned upon to NOT be a hypochondriac, sometimes it gets overwhelming. It also makes me angry that people are being encouraged to have hypochondria because it's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy and I lost years of my life to it in the past. I definitely considered suicide at many points during the spring and summer, although I think that's become a commonplace thing now.

Also, I've never had a problem with alcohol in my life, but now whenever I drink, I'm not able to stop. I didn't drink at all during the isolation part of the lockdown, and I still don't generally drink unless I'm out with friends. But on the occasions that I do drink, I drink either until there's no more alcohol, or until I can barely stand up, which was never the case before. I think it's somehow related to FOMO or something, like "I have to have the maximum amount of fun now because this could all be gone tomorrow." I still feel like I'm "socially starved."

That's not even getting into all the worries about what's going to happen to society overall. I've been pretty fortunate, like, I don't have to worry about being homeless or anything, but what about the people who do? What about the city where I lived for 21 years which is now collapsing into a crime-infested dumpster? What about the kids who aren't getting an education? What about the people who aren't able to keep away the suicidal thoughts? Is there going to be another Great Depression?

What angers me the most though, is just feeling like there will be no "reckoning" or acknowledgment for any of this. I've followed the rules even though I don't agree with them and they don't actually benefit me, and I've tried to give a factual assessment of all aspects of the situation, and in return, all I've gotten is insults (not from you guys, I'm just talking about in general). Nobody would ever go out of their way to help me, yet I'm expected to help them even though they won't help themselves. I feel like everyone else is "allowed" to be irresponsible but me. People don't get criticized at all by society for their unnecessary unhealthy habits that led to them being at higher risk for COVID, yet I get criticized for wanting things that every human being requires, like interactions with people.

IDK, maybe the "Covidiot shaming culture" has infected me, which is why I feel so angry about the normalization of obesity making this entire thing worse than it had to be. Because everyone else is judging and blaming other people for "not doing the right thing," so, why can't I? I would have rather minded my own business when it came to public health and had everyone else mind theirs. But since everyone else's health is now apparently my responsibility, shouldn't I get a say in how they live their lives?

While all of us probably would like it to be possible to be "back to normal", that's not in the cards right now. Beyond that, I think it's not an all or nothing situation in reality, in many places (can't speak for yours), nor are most people's reactions completely all or nothing (more common among the outspoken ones, perhaps).

But if more people had lost weight earlier in the year, would we currently be having a surge in hospitalizations so large that it overwhelmed the hospitals? That's what I want to know the answer to. Surely more people losing weight would have at least mitigated the surge to some extent.

As I said, I'm very sorry you're going through this. I wish I could help. I think I can't: You and I are very different.

I live alone, am socializing very little in person, going out very little, yet feel like I'm doing OK. I'd prefer to be socializing more, and would enjoy life more if I could, but I have food, clothing, shelter, some virtual or outdoor or even online textual (like this) social interactions, and that seems OK. (I too have lower social needs, but I see a contrast in difficulty of the current times for myself, vs. friends with higher social needs. Still, most of them are relatively isolating, also.)

For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past. To me, that seems pointless. I'm focused mainly on the things I can personally control, with a little attention to things I can influence but not fully control. Those are the things I can do something about, so that's where I'm putting attention. Other stuff comes into view only insofar as it creates obstacles I need to figure out how to get around or through.

I'm formerly obese, but not obese now (haven't been for 5+ years). I have no idea whether the pandemic would've encouraged me to lose weight if I hadn't already: For me, that's another of those "water under the bridge" things, not even something it had occurred to me to think about. I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .). Can't do a thing about being old (I do try to be healthy, but not specifically because of Covid, just because it seems like a generally good idea).

Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization". There's a Covid thread going over in General Health Fitness & Diet, but it's more news and strategies, not so much individual responses and coping mechanisms. There have been many threads about Covid/pandemic and weight gain/loss, or how to get workouts safely during the pandemic, but those are not this kind of thing, either. Maybe a thread could be started in Motivation & Support?

I hope you're able to find a happier, more satisfying path, sincerely.

siberiantarragon · January 2021

AnnPT77 wrote: »

For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past.

It's not in the past though. The COVID situation is ongoing and getting worse, and is projected to last several more months at least. Even after COVID is done with, pandemics happen fairly frequently (the last one was only 10 years ago --H1N1) and the population is less and less able to handle them as their overall health declines due to obesity. Diseases that might not be pandemics in a healthier population, might be pandemics in a less healthy one. There's also the larger policy question of the responsibility of the individual to society -- is it our civic duty to maintain our personal health? So these questions won't just go away.

I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .).

I wouldn't consider those factors to be blame-worthy. I also don't judge people who were obese and decided to get to a healthy weight because of COVID, or people who choose to remain obese but also disagree that everyone else should sacrifice in order to protect them.

I do wonder, though, if age has to do with our different responses to the lockdowns. I'm 29 and spent my first 22 years living in a violent, abusive household, so I feel like I barely got to live and missed out on a lot in my life, and now even more is being taken away. It sucks to not even be 30 and feel like "well, this is the limit of what I'm going to experience in life." I lost many years of my life because my family couldn't get their act together, and now it just feels like this is a variant of the same thing.

Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization".

The discussion did diverge from the original point.

Wiseandcurious · January 2021

siberiantarragon wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past.

It's not in the past though. The COVID situation is ongoing and getting worse, and is projected to last several more months at least. Even after COVID is done with, pandemics happen fairly frequently (the last one was only 10 years ago --H1N1) and the population is less and less able to handle them as their overall health declines due to obesity. Diseases that might not be pandemics in a healthier population, might be pandemics in a less healthy one. There's also the larger policy question of the responsibility of the individual to society -- is it our civic duty to maintain our personal health? So these questions won't just go away.

I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .).

I wouldn't consider those factors to be blame-worthy. I also don't judge people who were obese and decided to get to a healthy weight because of COVID, or people who choose to remain obese but also disagree that everyone else should sacrifice in order to protect them.

I do wonder, though, if age has to do with our different responses to the lockdowns. I'm 29 and spent my first 22 years living in a violent, abusive household, so I feel like I barely got to live and missed out on a lot in my life, and now even more is being taken away. It sucks to not even be 30 and feel like "well, this is the limit of what I'm going to experience in life." I lost many years of my life because my family couldn't get their act together, and now it just feels like this is a variant of the same thing.

Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization".

The discussion did diverge from the original point.

Like AnnPT77, I feel for you strongly. You are clearly struggling with this a lot more than many other people, and I am very sorry about that. Faulting obese people for that will not help you, and I hope you can find help either in other discussions and conversations, from your support network, therapy etc.

From my direct and indirect observation and anecdata, many of the people who gained in the pandemic are not obese, just on the verge of normal weight. I.e. obese and normal BMI gained alike. The fact that most people gained is due to moving less when wfh, since no commute (plus probably stress eating, food inequality issues etc. but reduced movement is a huge factor). And before you say that they should have used the commute time to do extra sport - statistics show most people use that time now to do extra work! The fear of losing their livelihood is real, as well as all other stressors, mental health issues etc.

The reason governments don't put their strategy for beating the pandemic on obesity is simple - getting people to lose weight would take long to move the covid needle, that's just a very ineffective way to spend marketing dollars when you could be influencing people to wear masks and distance, which have immediate sizable impact. The greatest predictor of covid complications by far is not being obese - it's catching it in the first place.

I live in Canada - we have similar obesity rates to the states I expect, and have been doing incomparably better due to early and more complete lockdowns and solidarity and taking measures seriously.

Related to your posts here - if you find that the topic of covid and obesity is really triggering for you, I truly hope you will be able to adress it. It has nothing to do with being right or wrong and a lot to do with approaching this from a mentally healthy angle. I wish you sincerely that things will get better for you personally! Living through a pandemic is harrrrrd. Many people struggle hugely. I hope we will all get through it!

Theoldguy1 · January 2021

Wiseandcurious wrote: »

siberiantarragon wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past.

It's not in the past though. The COVID situation is ongoing and getting worse, and is projected to last several more months at least. Even after COVID is done with, pandemics happen fairly frequently (the last one was only 10 years ago --H1N1) and the population is less and less able to handle them as their overall health declines due to obesity. Diseases that might not be pandemics in a healthier population, might be pandemics in a less healthy one. There's also the larger policy question of the responsibility of the individual to society -- is it our civic duty to maintain our personal health? So these questions won't just go away.

I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .).

I wouldn't consider those factors to be blame-worthy. I also don't judge people who were obese and decided to get to a healthy weight because of COVID, or people who choose to remain obese but also disagree that everyone else should sacrifice in order to protect them.

I do wonder, though, if age has to do with our different responses to the lockdowns. I'm 29 and spent my first 22 years living in a violent, abusive household, so I feel like I barely got to live and missed out on a lot in my life, and now even more is being taken away. It sucks to not even be 30 and feel like "well, this is the limit of what I'm going to experience in life." I lost many years of my life because my family couldn't get their act together, and now it just feels like this is a variant of the same thing.

Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization".

The discussion did diverge from the original point.

From my direct and indirect observation and anecdata, many of the people who gained in the pandemic are not obese, just on the verge of normal weight. I.e. obese and normal BMI gained alike. The fact that most people gained is due to moving less when wfh, since no commute (plus probably stress eating, food inequality issues etc. but reduced movement is a huge factor). And before you say that they should have used the commute time to do extra sport - statistics show most people use that time now to do extra work! The fear of losing their livelihood is real, as well as all other stressors, mental health issues etc.

Sorry people gained weight during the pandemic because they chose to eat more calories than they burned (just like weight gain over holidays, a vacation, etc).

Weight gain is not the pandemic's fault, need to look in one's own mirror.

Let the disagrees and excuses begin.

Noreenmarie1234 · January 2021

northviewvintage wrote: »

I think normalizing =good...glamourizing=bad ...Same for homosexuality...I think it's good to see gay people on tv, just playing regular roles not full of innuendo about what they do in the bedroom. Most people do not want to hear about it! Casting overweight people in more diverse roles wouldn't hurt. Last I read, 42% of Americans are obese, so where I'm at it's normal. Glamourizing it, in my opinion, causes a lot of confusion. Obesity is definately not healthy, but being a bit overweight might be if you have a mad passion for baking and eating bread, and know that eating those foods are worth it for you, personally, to be some pounds overweight. I am all about tolerance as long as you're not hurting others with your behavior. Here are some chunky people that I think are beautiful:

But the thing is obesity SHOULDN'T be normal. Why should we be normalizing something like obesity? That is saying it's normal, so why should anyone change if it's normal and accepted and there is nothing wrong with it.

Homosexuality is completely different. That isn’t a choice and isn’t something you can change like being obese is.

Noreenmarie1234 · January 2021

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

Wiseandcurious wrote: »

siberiantarragon wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past.

It's not in the past though. The COVID situation is ongoing and getting worse, and is projected to last several more months at least. Even after COVID is done with, pandemics happen fairly frequently (the last one was only 10 years ago --H1N1) and the population is less and less able to handle them as their overall health declines due to obesity. Diseases that might not be pandemics in a healthier population, might be pandemics in a less healthy one. There's also the larger policy question of the responsibility of the individual to society -- is it our civic duty to maintain our personal health? So these questions won't just go away.

I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .).

I wouldn't consider those factors to be blame-worthy. I also don't judge people who were obese and decided to get to a healthy weight because of COVID, or people who choose to remain obese but also disagree that everyone else should sacrifice in order to protect them.

I do wonder, though, if age has to do with our different responses to the lockdowns. I'm 29 and spent my first 22 years living in a violent, abusive household, so I feel like I barely got to live and missed out on a lot in my life, and now even more is being taken away. It sucks to not even be 30 and feel like "well, this is the limit of what I'm going to experience in life." I lost many years of my life because my family couldn't get their act together, and now it just feels like this is a variant of the same thing.

Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization".

The discussion did diverge from the original point.

From my direct and indirect observation and anecdata, many of the people who gained in the pandemic are not obese, just on the verge of normal weight. I.e. obese and normal BMI gained alike. The fact that most people gained is due to moving less when wfh, since no commute (plus probably stress eating, food inequality issues etc. but reduced movement is a huge factor). And before you say that they should have used the commute time to do extra sport - statistics show most people use that time now to do extra work! The fear of losing their livelihood is real, as well as all other stressors, mental health issues etc.

Sorry people gained weight during the pandemic because they chose to eat more calories than they burned (just like weight gain over holidays, a vacation, etc).

Weight gain is not the pandemic's fault, need to look in one's own mirror.

Let the disagrees and excuses begin.

I also don't understand why there is this huge "pandemic weight gain" everyone is talking about. I've had more time than usual during the pandemic (especially quarantine) to workout and be active since I had more time instead of wasting hours commuting. Now my after work meetings are zoom so I can use that time I'd usually spend commuting exercising. (Or even during)

janejellyroll · January 2021

gracegettingittogether wrote: »

Well, I for one, never said that the obese are doing anything TO others, or that the obese have caused the lockdowns. Anyone thinking that I did, should reread what I wrote.

If you go back and read what I said, you will see that I clearly stated that I myself am obese.

What I find ridiculous and abhorrent is the stance that one set of preventative measures such as mask wearing and social distancing, is morally virtuous and socially imperative, while other sets of preventive measures are barely mentioned. It’s not good science, and has became extremely political. If we are truly concerned about saving lives, we need to be honest and upfront about what we can each do to mitigate our personal risk of Covid and avoid straining medical resources.

Even if it means being politically incorrect and pointing out unpleasant truths. Otherwise we place an undue burden and strain on those suffering because of the other preventative measures. Imagine if the hospitals were not overwhelmed, if many more people didn’t need to go to the hospital because their symptoms were much less severe. We wouldn’t need to have such strict lockdowns or if we did, it would be for a much shorter time. Now, I wouldn’t say that we obese have caused the long severe lockdowns, but it would be bad science to deny that the obesity rate has clearly worsened the strain on medical resources.

I haven’t seen this widely acknowledged however, or seen any public measures designed to help mitigate this significant factor. Instead, the preventative measures have clearly made it much harder to lose weight. I’m confident that if the obesity factor had been widely acknowledged, we could have had innovative measures to help encourage and initiate weight loss. We still can, if public officials really would care about saving lives and not just votes.

It IS socially imperative for us to wear masks and socially distance. There may be other things that are also important, but at the end of the day if we were all slender we'd still be in a really bad spot with COVID. So I think the decision to focus on preventing the spread of the disease is a higher priority than getting people to adopt long-term projects that will potentially reduce the risk of complications if they get it.

This doesn't mean people can't individually decide to do things or that I don't think it's a good idea.

I am not convinced that duel public health campaigns would have the outcome you think they would. I absolutely don't think they're avoiding the issue in some sort of ploy to save votes while people die.

janejellyroll · January 2021

siberiantarragon wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

Then it's hard to understand why we've got so many people here who think you need to exercise for hours a week to lose weight or that they must limit carbohydrates or that you have to eat breakfast or that you have to IF to get your blood sugar down or etc etc etc.

Our culture is full of garbage information about detoxing and fad diets, which is part of the reason why people struggle with weight management.

Our culture is also full of misinformation about COVID, but that doesn't stop people from vilifying others for "not following the science" when it comes to that. Pretty much any public health agency on Earth will give you identical information on how to lose weight.

janejellyroll wrote: »

Nobody has comorbidities for fun or because they're out to get me. That's my point. They're putting themselves at risk, I refuse to take it as a personal attack.

People who want to socialize, go back to work, get an education, etc. aren't "out to get" other people either, but they've been treated that way because they're blamed for worsening the pandemic. Obesity is also worsening the pandemic. It increases the risk of the healthcare system collapsing and care being denied to people who don't have fixable co-morbidities. The entire reason why we have to have lockdowns is to prevent the healthcare system from collapsing.

lemurcat2 wrote: »

Yeah, I see a serious "I'm the victim, they are evil and doing this to me" thing in this thread that is not based in any reasonable understanding of truth.

All year we've been hearing nothing but "the evil people who want to go out and socialize and reopen things are doing this to me" even though socialization is vitally necessary for human health. I don't see how this is any different.

I am not promoting misinformation about weight loss and I don't support it. I call it out when I see it, just as I do misinformation about COVID.

Socialization IS necessary for human health. I support everyone taking steps to get socialization in safe forms. It's just that those forms may look a bit different or involve smaller groups with less mixing or (insert safer behavior here). There's a difference between "I need to socialize" and "the world should operate exactly as it did pre-COVID precautions" that I think is being missed here.

If you're going out to bars or having 25 person Thanksgivings or flying to Mexico or hosting huge playdates or refusing to wear at mask at the store because of "your rights," then that's antisocial behavior. Between that and total isolation, there are levels and there are choices, some of which are being made with a consideration of risks and efforts to mitigate negative consequences.

janejellyroll · January 2021

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

Wiseandcurious wrote: »

siberiantarragon wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past.

It's not in the past though. The COVID situation is ongoing and getting worse, and is projected to last several more months at least. Even after COVID is done with, pandemics happen fairly frequently (the last one was only 10 years ago --H1N1) and the population is less and less able to handle them as their overall health declines due to obesity. Diseases that might not be pandemics in a healthier population, might be pandemics in a less healthy one. There's also the larger policy question of the responsibility of the individual to society -- is it our civic duty to maintain our personal health? So these questions won't just go away.

I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .).

I wouldn't consider those factors to be blame-worthy. I also don't judge people who were obese and decided to get to a healthy weight because of COVID, or people who choose to remain obese but also disagree that everyone else should sacrifice in order to protect them.

I do wonder, though, if age has to do with our different responses to the lockdowns. I'm 29 and spent my first 22 years living in a violent, abusive household, so I feel like I barely got to live and missed out on a lot in my life, and now even more is being taken away. It sucks to not even be 30 and feel like "well, this is the limit of what I'm going to experience in life." I lost many years of my life because my family couldn't get their act together, and now it just feels like this is a variant of the same thing.

Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization".

The discussion did diverge from the original point.

From my direct and indirect observation and anecdata, many of the people who gained in the pandemic are not obese, just on the verge of normal weight. I.e. obese and normal BMI gained alike. The fact that most people gained is due to moving less when wfh, since no commute (plus probably stress eating, food inequality issues etc. but reduced movement is a huge factor). And before you say that they should have used the commute time to do extra sport - statistics show most people use that time now to do extra work! The fear of losing their livelihood is real, as well as all other stressors, mental health issues etc.

Sorry people gained weight during the pandemic because they chose to eat more calories than they burned (just like weight gain over holidays, a vacation, etc).

Weight gain is not the pandemic's fault, need to look in one's own mirror.

Let the disagrees and excuses begin.

Yes, people gained weight because they consumed more than they burned.

But I think for the average person this isn't exactly a deliberate choice. It's not like we have calorie meters on our arms that tell us when we've had what we need for the day.

I know there are tools available, but most people weren't using them pre-pandemic.

I know I've gotten a lot of flak for saying that many people don't have a great concept of how weight management works, but for the average person, they're not going to look at a plate and have a great understanding of how it fits with their calorie needs for the day -- especially if their calorie needs have suddenly gone down due to changes in their lifestyle.

So while it's true that people gained weight because they consumed more than they need, think about how many people here -- people who are already motivated to lose weight and are starting to use these tools -- struggle with getting the basics of calorie counting and then consider someone trying to balance that without any of the tools.

I do think a lot of people were caught off-guard by how they were suddenly using fewer calories. Combined with the context of not really understanding how much they were eating before and in newly stressful situations, I'm not surprised at the outcome, especially since so many people mistakenly believe they NEED to exercise to lose weight and we tossed gym closures on top of all that.

I think we can find a balance between personal responsibility AND acknowledging that a lot of people had a bunch of weird stuff tossed in their lap this year.

janejellyroll · January 2021

Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

Wiseandcurious wrote: »

siberiantarragon wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past.

It's not in the past though. The COVID situation is ongoing and getting worse, and is projected to last several more months at least. Even after COVID is done with, pandemics happen fairly frequently (the last one was only 10 years ago --H1N1) and the population is less and less able to handle them as their overall health declines due to obesity. Diseases that might not be pandemics in a healthier population, might be pandemics in a less healthy one. There's also the larger policy question of the responsibility of the individual to society -- is it our civic duty to maintain our personal health? So these questions won't just go away.

I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .).

I wouldn't consider those factors to be blame-worthy. I also don't judge people who were obese and decided to get to a healthy weight because of COVID, or people who choose to remain obese but also disagree that everyone else should sacrifice in order to protect them.

I do wonder, though, if age has to do with our different responses to the lockdowns. I'm 29 and spent my first 22 years living in a violent, abusive household, so I feel like I barely got to live and missed out on a lot in my life, and now even more is being taken away. It sucks to not even be 30 and feel like "well, this is the limit of what I'm going to experience in life." I lost many years of my life because my family couldn't get their act together, and now it just feels like this is a variant of the same thing.

Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization".

The discussion did diverge from the original point.

From my direct and indirect observation and anecdata, many of the people who gained in the pandemic are not obese, just on the verge of normal weight. I.e. obese and normal BMI gained alike. The fact that most people gained is due to moving less when wfh, since no commute (plus probably stress eating, food inequality issues etc. but reduced movement is a huge factor). And before you say that they should have used the commute time to do extra sport - statistics show most people use that time now to do extra work! The fear of losing their livelihood is real, as well as all other stressors, mental health issues etc.

Sorry people gained weight during the pandemic because they chose to eat more calories than they burned (just like weight gain over holidays, a vacation, etc).

Weight gain is not the pandemic's fault, need to look in one's own mirror.

Let the disagrees and excuses begin.

I also don't understand why there is this huge "pandemic weight gain" everyone is talking about. I've had more time than usual during the pandemic (especially quarantine) to workout and be active since I had more time instead of wasting hours commuting. Now my after work meetings are zoom so I can use that time I'd usually spend commuting exercising. (Or even during)

I'm not sure if you have kids, but as a non-parent I have noticed that my pandemic experience has been very different than the pandemic experience I've been observing from my family, friends, and co-workers that have kids.

I also have experienced this period as one where I've got more time to exercise due to the elimination of my commute. For the people I know caring for children, many of them have less time for things like exercise or hobbies than they did before.

Theoldguy1 · January 2021

janejellyroll wrote: »

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

Wiseandcurious wrote: »

siberiantarragon wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past.

It's not in the past though. The COVID situation is ongoing and getting worse, and is projected to last several more months at least. Even after COVID is done with, pandemics happen fairly frequently (the last one was only 10 years ago --H1N1) and the population is less and less able to handle them as their overall health declines due to obesity. Diseases that might not be pandemics in a healthier population, might be pandemics in a less healthy one. There's also the larger policy question of the responsibility of the individual to society -- is it our civic duty to maintain our personal health? So these questions won't just go away.

I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .).

I wouldn't consider those factors to be blame-worthy. I also don't judge people who were obese and decided to get to a healthy weight because of COVID, or people who choose to remain obese but also disagree that everyone else should sacrifice in order to protect them.

I do wonder, though, if age has to do with our different responses to the lockdowns. I'm 29 and spent my first 22 years living in a violent, abusive household, so I feel like I barely got to live and missed out on a lot in my life, and now even more is being taken away. It sucks to not even be 30 and feel like "well, this is the limit of what I'm going to experience in life." I lost many years of my life because my family couldn't get their act together, and now it just feels like this is a variant of the same thing.

Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization".

The discussion did diverge from the original point.

From my direct and indirect observation and anecdata, many of the people who gained in the pandemic are not obese, just on the verge of normal weight. I.e. obese and normal BMI gained alike. The fact that most people gained is due to moving less when wfh, since no commute (plus probably stress eating, food inequality issues etc. but reduced movement is a huge factor). And before you say that they should have used the commute time to do extra sport - statistics show most people use that time now to do extra work! The fear of losing their livelihood is real, as well as all other stressors, mental health issues etc.

Sorry people gained weight during the pandemic because they chose to eat more calories than they burned (just like weight gain over holidays, a vacation, etc).

Weight gain is not the pandemic's fault, need to look in one's own mirror.

Let the disagrees and excuses begin.

Yes, people gained weight because they consumed more than they burned.

But I think for the average person this isn't exactly a deliberate choice. It's not like we have calorie meters on our arms that tell us when we've had what we need for the day.

I know there are tools available, but most people weren't using them pre-pandemic.

I know I've gotten a lot of flak for saying that many people don't have a great concept of how weight management works, but for the average person, they're not going to look at a plate and have a great understanding of how it fits with their calorie needs for the day -- especially if their calorie needs have suddenly gone down due to changes in their lifestyle.

So while it's true that people gained weight because they consumed more than they need, think about how many people here -- people who are already motivated to lose weight and are starting to use these tools -- struggle with getting the basics of calorie counting and then consider someone trying to balance that without any of the tools.

I do think a lot of people were caught off-guard by how they were suddenly using fewer calories. Combined with the context of not really understanding how much they were eating before and in newly stressful situations, I'm not surprised at the outcome, especially since so many people mistakenly believe they NEED to exercise to lose weight and we tossed gym closures on top of all that.

I think we can find a balance between personal responsibility AND acknowledging that a lot of people had a bunch of weird stuff tossed in their lap this year.

We don't have calorie meters on our arms but most of us wear clothes.

When articles of clothing start getting noticeably tighter it's a pretty good indicator one has gained some weight and needs to back off on the eating and/or increase activity to stop the gain and lose what was gained.

About 15% of the US population has gym memberships. I would venture to say those with the memberships and actually were using them before covid found alternative ways to move. The people with dedication to an active lifestyle didn't just quit because their gym closed.

janejellyroll · January 2021

northviewvintage wrote: »

Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »

northviewvintage wrote: »

I think normalizing =good...glamourizing=bad ...Same for homosexuality...I think it's good to see gay people on tv, just playing regular roles not full of innuendo about what they do in the bedroom. Most people do not want to hear about it! Casting overweight people in more diverse roles wouldn't hurt. Last I read, 42% of Americans are obese, so where I'm at it's normal. Glamourizing it, in my opinion, causes a lot of confusion. Obesity is definately not healthy, but being a bit overweight might be if you have a mad passion for baking and eating bread, and know that eating those foods are worth it for you, personally, to be some pounds overweight. I am all about tolerance as long as you're not hurting others with your behavior. Here are some chunky people that I think are beautiful:

But the thing is obesity SHOULDN'T be normal. Why should we be normalizing something like obesity? That is saying it's normal, so why should anyone change if it's normal and accepted and there is nothing wrong with it.

Homosexuality is completely different. That isn’t a choice and isn’t something you can change like being obese is.

The only reason I mentioned homosexuals is because those are two groups of people, amongst others, that are seldom represented right to the public. I've known quite a few gay people, and they're not always making people uncomfortable with sexual innuendos and I've known a few obese people who just want to eat how they want to eat not caring if it takes 20 years off their life. They're not always chefs. They're not always extremely funny. Obesity is a choice, but not everyone chooses to be healthy. Are they hurting you with that choice? With normal being defined as "the usual, average, or typical state or condition" and 42% of Americans being obese, I still say it's normal.I do think, I hope, that we can alter our society in ways that promote healthy lifestyles, so that it might not be so normal in the future.

I'm not sure who is arguing that gay people are always making people uncomfortable with sexual innuendos. You may be getting pushback because you're arguing against some bizarroworld conception of what gay people are like. There are tons of movies, books, music, and podcasts showing the amazing diversity of LBGTQ culture (although we could always use more!).

Just playing regular roles? Okay, they're doing it. They'd be doing it a lot more if people hadn't been gatekeeping them for years based on these destructive ideas about Americans somehow melting into a puddle if they have to contemplate that -- just like straight Americans -- some LGBTQ people are having sex.

Thoughts on the “glamourizing/normalizing” obesity vs body positivity conversations

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