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Thoughts on the “glamourizing/normalizing” obesity vs body positivity conversations
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gracegettingittogether wrote: »
I think the response to that would be, is it realistic to expect people to lose their livelihoods, homes, sanity and families to lower risk, without pointing out that there are also other targeted ways to lower risk as well? That’s what bothers me about all this. There’s not an equal standard being applied. Apparently people are “irresponsible” for doing things to alleviate their suffering caused by the loss of the things mentioned above, but people aren’t being called “irresponsible” for not personally doing what they can to lower their risk of getting ill and using scarce medical resources. That is to say, one set of risk lowering actions are deemed so important as to cause great wide spread and long lasting effects and the other set all but ignored. Standards have to be applied fairly, otherwise they aren’t standards but just bias, which is not scientific.
I say this as an obese woman, with vulnerable pneumonia scarred lungs. If I have a bad response to Covid, should I get it, I know that in some degree, I could have taken actions to lessen the severity. In fact, my brother in law physician who treats Covid patients every day, did tell me at the outset of all this, that being so overweight did put me at higher risk, while my older and in shape parents risk was much lower, based on how patients were responding in the hospital.
I absolutely think that people should evaluate their situation and take steps to reduce their risk. I also think we should extend some understanding to people who may be struggling to do this due to financial or emotional or logistical factors that are also being exacerbated by the current situation. I'm just saying I don't see it as a situation where the obese are doing this TO us. We're all caught in this bad situation in various ways and I believe that many are just doing the best they can.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »siberiantarragon wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm not seeing anything where overweight or obese people are telling those with mental illnesses that they need to "get over it" so they can be safer. I think you're heavily personalizing public health messages. Which I get, this whole thing has been frustrating in many different ways, but I don't think seeing this as an obese people versus mental illness thing is warranted. To begin with, there is overlap between these two categories!
In discussions I've had, I've seen a lot of overlap between the people who tell anyone who is negatively affected by the lockdowns to "get over it," and the people who get offended when you suggest that people should take more personal responsibility for their own health before asking others to sacrifice for them. I'm not implying that anyone who holds these beliefs is obese, or anyone who doesn't hold these beliefs is not obese. (Ironically, I have several friends who are overweight/obese and agree with me about the obesity/COVID/personal responsibility thing.)I get that you don't understand how anyone can be overweight. It's a common thing, but I promise you that logistical and mental obstacles to weight loss exist, including a lack of information about how CICO works or not understanding how to effectively implement it into one's life.
I never said that I don't understand how anyone can be overweight. I just gave an entire paragraph of reasons why I think people stay overweight. I just said that I don't think lack of access to information is the reason. 20 or 30 years ago, sure, it was a lot harder to find information back then, maybe that would have been a factor. But today, the information is out there, free and available. If someone doesn't look it up, it's because they don't want to know.
And again, regardless of what the reason is why people keep gaining weight, is it not the government's job to fix this public health crisis? Why are governments and our society in general enabling the obesity crisis instead of trying to fix it? If the answer actually is just lack of knowledge, that would be a pretty easy fix, wouldn't it? Why aren't there huge billboards with this information everywhere, the same way there are billboards everywhere about wearing a mask or social distancing?
There's a ton of information on weight loss out there and a lot of it is conflicting.
Information on weight loss is not conflicting. Virtually anything you see on weight lose involves consuming fewer calories than one burns.
Obviously different ways to go about it but that is the message.
Then it's hard to understand why we've got so many people here who think you need to exercise for hours a week to lose weight or that they must limit carbohydrates or that you have to eat breakfast or that you have to IF to get your blood sugar down or etc etc etc.
Our culture is full of garbage information about detoxing and fad diets, which is part of the reason why people struggle with weight management.14 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »siberiantarragon wrote: »I'm usually a "live and let live" kind of person. But what's really annoyed me this year is that obesity now negatively affects everyone, even if they are not obese. By which I mean, COVID-19 is a disease which disproportionately harms obese people. Most of the people who are hospitalized or die from it are obese, especially the non-elderly people. Countries with very low obesity rates, such as Japan and South Korea, have much lower death and hospitalization rates than other economically-similar countries, despite a high proportion of elderly people. (And this doesn't get discussed in the US -- people just say Japan and South Korea "handled the pandemic better"...as if the fact they have a 4% obesity rate and we have a 42% obesity rate plays no role.)
All year we've been in lockdowns and told that we're killing people if we go outside. Some people have lost everything to lockdowns -- their jobs, businesses, homes, mental health, physical health, education, etc. I have a health condition that is made worse by the lockdowns, and nobody cared about that. Yet I don't see many people who are obese and worried about COVID-19 doing anything to lose weight. In fact, studies indicate that most people gained weight during the lockdowns. We're all expected to blow up our lives indefinitely to reduce other peoples' risk, yet they won't even do the slightest thing to reduce their own risk. That is so selfish and unfair and yet nobody calls it out.
I think the media and government play a role in this because they haven't been really talking much about the role obesity plays in COVID-19. The UK is the only country I saw that really discussed it in any official capacity, but even then they kind of forgot about it. Meanwhile I've seen countless articles where the media talks about a "perfectly healthy young person" who died of COVID-19 and then when you see the picture, the person is 300 or 400 pounds. That just shows how sick our culture is, that being morbidly obese is now considered "perfectly healthy," because people are too afraid of offending someone to tell the truth. And that attitude is contributing to peoples' deaths, from COVID-19 and from the many other complications of obesity. Sometimes I wonder where we would be if the public health messaging this year had focused more on weight loss, instead of officials doing things like banning outdoor exercise and closing parks.
So yeah, I'm way more judgmental about "fat positivity" culture now than I used to be, because it's a big reason why we're in this mess now.
I agree. I work in the ER in Los Angeles and see Covid patients every day. We are NOT seeing young healthy in shape people die. Most of the younger people with complications are either very obese or diabetic and uncontrolled. Some people told me they have no medical problems but then their blood sugar is 500. They did not know they were diabetic apparently or someone told them they were years ago and they ignored it.
Obesity is a huge problem when it comes to Covid. We need to focus on this instead of ignoring it.
I think the difference is that I'm not thinking that these people are selfish and subjecting ME to something, I'm thinking it's unfortunate that they're at higher risk.
Those with preventable comorbidities are subjecting you to something.
If someone that was an obese smoker quit smoking and started losing weight at the start of this and got Covid now their chances of needing ER or even hospital care would be decreased freeing up medical resources which are in short supply in many parts of the US.
I'm a strong believer in taking care of yourself to fight off illness. A few years back I was hospitalized for a week with 4 IV's in my arms due to a Sepsis infection. I was fortunate enough that I was at a normal weight, long time exerciser and did not smoke. One of my nurses was a casual acquaintance from the gym. He told me after I recovered most people that had Sepsis as bad as I did when I arrived at the hospital at best had strokes, heart attacks, kidney failure or at worst left the hospital in a body bag as a result.
Self care is important and impacts society.
Nobody has comorbidities for fun or because they're out to get me. That's my point. They're putting themselves at risk, I refuse to take it as a personal attack.11 -
Yeah, I see a serious "I'm the victim, they are evil and doing this to me" thing in this thread that is not based in any reasonable understanding of truth.
Are those real Cosmo covers? I do think it's good to convince overweight people that they can do things to improve their health even if they have given up on losing weight (many people have lost and regained and think losing and maintaining is impossible but would likely lose if they focused on things besides weight). I don't think it's sensible to pretend like weight is not a risk factor.10 -
Well, I for one, never said that the obese are doing anything TO others, or that the obese have caused the lockdowns. Anyone thinking that I did, should reread what I wrote.
If you go back and read what I said, you will see that I clearly stated that I myself am obese.
What I find ridiculous and abhorrent is the stance that one set of preventative measures such as mask wearing and social distancing, is morally virtuous and socially imperative, while other sets of preventive measures are barely mentioned. It’s not good science, and has became extremely political. If we are truly concerned about saving lives, we need to be honest and upfront about what we can each do to mitigate our personal risk of Covid and avoid straining medical resources.
Even if it means being politically incorrect and pointing out unpleasant truths. Otherwise we place an undue burden and strain on those suffering because of the other preventative measures. Imagine if the hospitals were not overwhelmed, if many more people didn’t need to go to the hospital because their symptoms were much less severe. We wouldn’t need to have such strict lockdowns or if we did, it would be for a much shorter time. Now, I wouldn’t say that we obese have caused the long severe lockdowns, but it would be bad science to deny that the obesity rate has clearly worsened the strain on medical resources.
I haven’t seen this widely acknowledged however, or seen any public measures designed to help mitigate this significant factor. Instead, the preventative measures have clearly made it much harder to lose weight. I’m confident that if the obesity factor had been widely acknowledged, we could have had innovative measures to help encourage and initiate weight loss. We still can, if public officials really would care about saving lives and not just votes.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Then it's hard to understand why we've got so many people here who think you need to exercise for hours a week to lose weight or that they must limit carbohydrates or that you have to eat breakfast or that you have to IF to get your blood sugar down or etc etc etc.
Our culture is full of garbage information about detoxing and fad diets, which is part of the reason why people struggle with weight management.
Our culture is also full of misinformation about COVID, but that doesn't stop people from vilifying others for "not following the science" when it comes to that. Pretty much any public health agency on Earth will give you identical information on how to lose weight.janejellyroll wrote: »Nobody has comorbidities for fun or because they're out to get me. That's my point. They're putting themselves at risk, I refuse to take it as a personal attack.
People who want to socialize, go back to work, get an education, etc. aren't "out to get" other people either, but they've been treated that way because they're blamed for worsening the pandemic. Obesity is also worsening the pandemic. It increases the risk of the healthcare system collapsing and care being denied to people who don't have fixable co-morbidities. The entire reason why we have to have lockdowns is to prevent the healthcare system from collapsing.Yeah, I see a serious "I'm the victim, they are evil and doing this to me" thing in this thread that is not based in any reasonable understanding of truth.
All year we've been hearing nothing but "the evil people who want to go out and socialize and reopen things are doing this to me" even though socialization is vitally necessary for human health. I don't see how this is any different.
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gracegettingittogether wrote: »Well, I for one, never said that the obese are doing anything TO others, or that the obese have caused the lockdowns. Anyone thinking that I did, should reread what I wrote.
I was not suggesting that you did.
Do you think me shaking my finger at you and saying you need to lose weight would be helpful? Or that it's somehow your fault we had lockdowns (which is obviously untrue anyway)? I'm mostly interested in doing what would be helpful, and don't think blaming obese people is likely to be. (It was not helpful to my own ability to lose weight.)
Yet someone else in this thread seems to think otherwise.
I am generally interested in how to deal with the problem of the obesity rate, so if you have ideas there, I'd love to hear them.6 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »What I find ridiculous and abhorrent is the stance that one set of preventative measures such as mask wearing and social distancing, is morally virtuous and socially imperative, while other sets of preventive measures are barely mentioned. It’s not good science, and has became extremely political. If we are truly concerned about saving lives, we need to be honest and upfront about what we can each do to mitigate our personal risk of Covid and avoid straining medical resources.
I should add that I just think this is inaccurate. I have a friend with whom I talk about weight loss things who is obese, and he has been saying from the beginning that he needs to lose weight to control his risk. The discussions I've heard otherwise, both locally and on MFP have indicated that people are aware that obesity is a risk factor. I'm not overweight, but I've gained some during this and have joked about how it should be the opposite.
I really don't think anyone doesn't know obesity is a risk -- why people don't then lose is a harder question related probably to why people get overweight despite it being a known health risk and also not positively viewed by society, or at least that has been my personal experience/understanding.
The idea that if we just blamed fat people more they'd be thinner seems unlikely to me, and unrelated to what helped me lose weight, but perhaps your personal experience is different?3 -
I was not suggesting that you did.
Do you think me shaking my finger at you and saying you need to lose weight would be helpful? Or that it's somehow your fault we had lockdowns (which is obviously untrue anyway)? I'm mostly interested in doing what would be helpful, and don't think blaming obese people is likely to be. (It was not helpful to my own ability to lose weight.)
This year, we've really opened the door to "shaming as a public health solution," despite generally agreeing in previous years that it wasn't effective. "Stay the f home," "grandma killer," "don't be a knucklehead," "covidiot," "we could have been opened up by now if it wasn't for those idiots who didn't follow the rules," etc. Even public health experts have gotten in on the "fun" and some of these shaming slogans (like "don't be a knucklehead") were actually made up by governments, presumably under the guidance of public health experts. So apparently the experts have decided that shaking their finger at people and telling them they need to do X, and blaming them for societal-wide problems, must be an effective way to get people to change their lifestyle, or else they wouldn't keep doing it. Who am I to go against the experts?
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I’m not accusing anyone in particular; I just saw some misunderstanding of what I was trying to say.
I do think it would be helpful to say “Lose weight, wear masks to lower the spread and severity of Covid.”
I do see people becoming extremely focused on wearing masks, gloves and social distancing and putting all their efforts to avoiding the virus completely. It increases anxiety, OCD and depression greatly because they are cowering from something they are terrified they are going to get anyway.
It would be much better for people to stop only focusing on not getting it and instead also focus on actions that have clearly and scientifically shown to decrease the severity.
Obviously, there are other factors like age, and decreased immune function that can’t be mitigated.
But we can really improve our chances for survival if we lose weight. We don’t have to be out of our minds with fear and worry that there’s nothing we can really do to prevent ourselves from dying from Covid.
MyFitnessPal could be nationally promoted by officials, or other free apps like this one. We could open more gyms in empty stores so people can exercise and still socially distance. We could really promote people using hiking trails in parks. A lot of them are only wide enough for one person so it’s easy to social distance. We could have schools have more gym time in middle schools and high schools. Business could incentivize employees using MyFitnessPal and activity trackers. I know some already do, my husband’s new job is what restarted me here. We could have businesses give people exercise balls to bounce on while working from home. We could have cooking lessons required in every middle school and high school. We could have officials saying “Don’t despair, lose weight.”
I’m not very creative even. I’m sure there’s many people out there with much better ideas.2 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »I’m not accusing anyone in particular; I just saw some misunderstanding of what I was trying to say.
I do think it would be helpful to say “Lose weight, wear masks to lower the spread and severity of Covid.”
I do see people becoming extremely focused on wearing masks, gloves and social distancing and putting all their efforts to avoiding the virus completely. It increases anxiety, OCD and depression greatly because they are cowering from something they are terrified they are going to get anyway.
It would be much better for people to stop only focusing on not getting it and instead also focus on actions that have clearly and scientifically shown to decrease the severity.
Obviously, there are other factors like age, and decreased immune function that can’t be mitigated.
But we can really improve our chances for survival if we lose weight. We don’t have to be out of our minds with fear and worry that there’s nothing we can really do to prevent ourselves from dying from Covid.
I just want to say, I have loved all your posts on this topic!
The more I think about it, the more I realize how great of an opportunity was squandered here. We have been trying to reduce obesity rates for years with no success. Well, if there was ever a time to convince people that they needed to lose weight for their health, this past year would have been it. People were wondering "what can I do to reduce my chances of dying in the pandemic?" and being literally told by the people in charge of protecting public health, "LOL just sit at home on the couch, order takeout, and watch Netflix, oh and by the way we closed all the parks." If that doesn't say it all about how normalized obesity and unhealthy lifestyles are in our culture, I don't know what does.
People in this thread are saying that people are confused about how to lose weight. Well, there's never been a time in modern history where people were more receptive and attentive to public health announcements than they were in this past year. I don't think there's ever been a time before this year where there were daily televised press conferences on public health, for example. That information of how to lose weight could have been put out there. The city I used to live in mailed out masks to every resident. What if they had also mailed out a guide on healthy diet and exercise to everyone?
During the pandemic, a lot of people have felt hopeless, and completely at the mercy of other people -- the people making the rules and the people who choose to follow them with varying degrees of scrupulosity. Empowering people to take charge of their health would have increased morale and reduced at least some of the despair and exhaustion people are feeling, which could have prevented at least some "deaths of despair." Maybe it also would have promoted a more positive culture, instead of the really negative judgmental/hateful culture that's come out of this past year.MyFitnessPal could be nationally promoted by officials, or other free apps like this one. We could open more gyms in empty stores so people can exercise and still socially distance. We could really promote people using hiking trails in parks. A lot of them are only wide enough for one person so it’s easy to social distance. We could have schools have more gym time in middle schools and high schools. Business could incentivize employees using MyFitnessPal and activity trackers. I know some already do, my husband’s new job is what restarted me here. We could have businesses give people exercise balls to bounce on while working from home. We could have cooking lessons required in every middle school and high school. We could have officials saying “Don’t despair, lose weight.”
I’m not very creative even. I’m sure there’s many people out there with much better ideas.
These are all great suggestions!6 -
Without replying to anyone in particular here:
Formal marketing campaigns necessarily differ when a product/service/issue is new, vs. when it's been around for a while. The differences are pretty major, in terms of best channels to communicate, most effective messages to choose, how important market segmentation is, etc.
Getting people to understand the general public health issues around the pandemic (the masks, distancing, etc.) has been in the "new" category, in marketing terms. Probably now shifting into a more intermediate stage, but still relatively early in a standard marketing cycle model.
In contrast, obesity is a problem of at least multiple decades' duration, a whole different spot in the marketing cycle. Many campaigns have been tried, and most have had limited effect on obesity itself. (For example, demonizing sweets seems to have dropped sugar consumption somewhat (though perhaps not as much as USDA data suggest), but obesity kept increasing.) At most, in marketing terms, obesity is a market segmentation/messaging issue when it comes to Covid (one way to reduce risk of severe disease or death), or a relatively new selling point for the value of losing weight (not very dissimilar messaging-wise in some ways from potential selling points like reduced risk of heart disease, which is a top killer in the US).
In terms of how best to "market" for these issues, they're not very comparable. The best spend of effort/money is different.
As an aside, I do think that anyone who mysteriously doesn't know that obesity is a huge risk factor for worse Covid effects has had their head in the sand. (And why would people with heads in their sand somehow have better, clearer, more accurate, more scientific information in their heads about how to lose weight, than they do about the quite-well-communicated impact of obesity, diabetes, etc., on severity of Covid cases?)
Generalizations only go so far before they start to mislead, IMO - on any subject, not just this one.6 -
Are those real Cosmo covers?
Apparently they are, might be the UK editions though:
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/body/a34915032/women-bodies-wellness-healthy-different-shape-size/0 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »I do see people becoming extremely focused on wearing masks, gloves and social distancing and putting all their efforts to avoiding the virus completely. It increases anxiety, OCD and depression greatly because they are cowering from something they are terrified they are going to get anyway.
I think this is an odd reading of the current dynamics, especially if you are (as I am thinking you are) in a social circle where masks are generally frowned upon.
I am in one of the more mask friendly areas compared to what others have reported on MFP, and yet people aren't generally even wearing gloves, lots of people don't wear masks much of the time (I wear masks when around others or indoors in public spaces, but don't when walking/running in a situation when I can social distance), and few would say they are doing that due to fear of getting the virus. Most of us wear masks to help control the spread.
I do think the shutdown situation is bad for mental health, but I don't think it's actually caused by official action -- people in general aren't willing to go out and interact normally. Very few people in my social group are overweight (many are older than me), and yet they are not currently going to be socializing as pre covid. It's not because of fat people, and it's not even because of official action -- it's because it's what they consider responsible.It would be much better for people to stop only focusing on not getting it and instead also focus on actions that have clearly and scientifically shown to decrease the severity.
Yes, as pre covid, it would be better for obese people to lose weight. My point is this idea that they don't know that is not based in fact, and shaming them -- in fact, blaming them for everything that is awful about covid, as another poster has been doing -- is not only based in falsehood (fat people are not why others lost their jobs) -- but not actually going to lead to positive action.But we can really improve our chances for survival if we lose weight. We don’t have to be out of our minds with fear and worry that there’s nothing we can really do to prevent ourselves from dying from Covid.
Again, I think you are projecting or something as most of us aren't all that fearful, we just think the effects of covid are bad and would like to help it end ASAP. But you said you are overweight, so why haven't you done this? And if the answer is that you have (and didn't realize any health reasons pre covid) but it takes a while, why not give others the same benefit of the doubt? Like I said, I sure knew there were health reasons not to be overweight before I lost weight -- I was fat, not uninformed -- but it still took some time before I was in a mental space where I was able to lose. I feel like being understanding of others in that place, and not blaming them for all the evils of the world, is a better approach, personally.
And yes, I think public encouragement of weight loss is a good thing, and I don't actually think it doesn't exist. What specifically encouraged you to lose was my question, however -- no public campaign did it for me.6 -
Put a smile on your face, do a yoga pose and the fat ladies are healthy with a great mentality, do you really believe everything you read?! This is another sale to "Fat and Fabulous is Fantastic and the Way To Be!"
There's been a plus size model commercial on TV for several months where there's a runway model with fat oozing out everywhere saying "When I walk in a room, all eyes are on me." My thought, of course they are because people are shocked how someone so fat could have so much confidence.
Healthy, you could not convince that being fat is healthy, at least not long term fatness and the effects of it on the body. It's disgusting. I wouldn't buy the garbage lies that those magazines are selling to fools.
I'm not coming back here. I'm getting out for a run. You all have a great day!
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No, you are mistaken. I’m not in a circle where mask wearing is discouraged.
I do have family members with OCD and anxiety which have shot through the roof during this while gaining weight. I see them panicking over Covid to the point of neurosis, and not even thinking of actions which could mitigate Covid, if they do get it.
I know of many people whose anxiety and depression have skyrocketed, including me, while listening to the news and officials. I am tired of people focusing on things out of their control such as the actions of others and not on actions we can take ourselves. Yes, mask wearing and social distancing, but also losing weight. Mask wearing will help to slow the spread and weight loss to lessen the severity.
I have lost a significant amount of weight, with more to go. I am even so, still obese. I can’t understand why people keep thinking that I am blaming obese people. What benefit of the doubt are you speaking of? Why is it blaming anyone to point out that there are things we can do ourselves to lessen the severity of Covid?
Did I say that fat people are to blame for everything that is evil? Why would I be blaming others for what I do myself? Can I still say that those actions are not helpful and help but not cause the overwhelming of the healthcare system? Absolutely. It is important to state the truth, however inconvenient or unpleasant.
Absolutely lockdowns are caused by official actions. Everyone who has lost their job or business because of them knows this.
There is wide spread fear, anxiety and depression, even if not in your circle. Look up the rates of suicide. I think we should be promoting ways to control the feeling of helplessness that overwhelm so many, instead of neglecting ways to help us manage Covid.3 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »I can’t understand why people keep thinking that I am blaming obese people.
I don't think anyone has said you are. I was speaking about other posts here. And yes, they were blaming fat people for everything bad that has happened as a result of covid.7 -
Put a smile on your face, do a yoga pose and the fat ladies are healthy with a great mentality, do you really believe everything you read?! This is another sale to "Fat and Fabulous is Fantastic and the Way To Be!"
There's been a plus size model commercial on TV for several months where there's a runway model with fat oozing out everywhere saying "When I walk in a room, all eyes are on me." My thought, of course they are because people are shocked how someone so fat could have so much confidence.
Healthy, you could not convince that being fat is healthy, at least not long term fatness and the effects of it on the body. It's disgusting. I wouldn't buy the garbage lies that those magazines are selling to fools.
I'm not coming back here. I'm getting out for a run. You all have a great day!
Wow. I don't even know what to say to that.6 -
I have to disagree. Yes mental health is important, but our bodies weren't made to function normally when body fat % is 30% or higher. Hence reasons for higher insulin resistance, onset diabetes and flat out plain heart disease. Their bodies would function MUCH better with being 50lbs+ less.Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »
At first I was really against these, but then I read the article and I guess they are saying their mentalities are healthy because they are focused on how well their bodies can function and perform, not how they look. I am all for that, but I think if you focus on being the healthiest you are and love yourself you would lose weight to be the best you can be and healthiest you can be. Staying obese is harming yourself.
I am just glad they didn't outright say "I am perfectly healthy and don't want to lose any weight" like Tess Holiday does.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I think this is an odd reading of the current dynamics, especially if you are (as I am thinking you are) in a social circle where masks are generally frowned upon.
All of my friends also follow the mask laws. They have to, or they would be fined thousands of dollars and/or put in jail!
Actually what inspired me to make my initial post in the first place is I know so many people who are obese and have been posting on social media all year about how scared they are of dying of COVID and how anyone who goes out to socialize is a monster and we're literally murdering people by reopening schools and businesses. Yet nine months later, they haven't posted once about weight loss, let alone lost any weight. I would like to point out this hypocrisy to them in real life, but I know they'd just get mad and block me, so I'm posting about it anonymously on a forum
I do think the shutdown situation is bad for mental health, but I don't think it's actually caused by official action -- people in general aren't willing to go out and interact normally. Very few people in my social group are overweight (many are older than me), and yet they are not currently going to be socializing as pre covid. It's not because of fat people, and it's not even because of official action -- it's because it's what they consider responsible.
My state had the highest rate of COVID deaths of almost any place on Earth and restaurants (or what is left of them) were still packed when they reopened. But apart from that, if we didn't have an obesity problem, the death rate would be lower, and people wouldn't be having to take so much responsibility for the health of others.Yes, as pre covid, it would be better for obese people to lose weight.
And during COVID. People could have lost 50-100 pounds by now (depending on their starting weight) if they had started in March, which means they would be at less risk during this wave of the virus and not be overrunning the hospitals right now.And if the answer is that you have (and didn't realize any health reasons pre covid) but it takes a while, why not give others the same benefit of the doubt?
Because the few studies done on the matter, and anecdotal evidence, indicate the average person has gained weight during the lockdowns, not lost it. If evidence was coming out indicating that, on average, people had started losing weight, I would not be having this discussion.but it still took some time before I was in a mental space where I was able to lose. I feel like being understanding of others in that place, and not blaming them for all the evils of the world, is a better approach, personally.
So what if I'm "not in a mental space where I'm able to social distance"? Are people going to be understanding of me, or are they going to blame me for all the evils of the world?
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siberiantarragon wrote: »I think this is an odd reading of the current dynamics, especially if you are (as I am thinking you are) in a social circle where masks are generally frowned upon.
All of my friends also follow the mask laws. They have to, or they would be fined thousands of dollars and/or put in jail!
Actually what inspired me to make my initial post in the first place is I know so many people who are obese and have been posting on social media all year about how scared they are of dying of COVID and how anyone who goes out to socialize is a monster and we're literally murdering people by reopening schools and businesses. Yet nine months later, they haven't posted once about weight loss, let alone lost any weight. I would like to point out this hypocrisy to them in real life, but I know they'd just get mad and block me, so I'm posting about it anonymously on a forumI do think the shutdown situation is bad for mental health, but I don't think it's actually caused by official action -- people in general aren't willing to go out and interact normally. Very few people in my social group are overweight (many are older than me), and yet they are not currently going to be socializing as pre covid. It's not because of fat people, and it's not even because of official action -- it's because it's what they consider responsible.
My state had the highest rate of COVID deaths of almost any place on Earth and restaurants (or what is left of them) were still packed when they reopened. But apart from that, if we didn't have an obesity problem, the death rate would be lower, and people wouldn't be having to take so much responsibility for the health of others.Yes, as pre covid, it would be better for obese people to lose weight.
And during COVID. People could have lost 50-100 pounds by now (depending on their starting weight) if they had started in March, which means they would be at less risk during this wave of the virus and not be overrunning the hospitals right now.And if the answer is that you have (and didn't realize any health reasons pre covid) but it takes a while, why not give others the same benefit of the doubt?
Because the few studies done on the matter, and anecdotal evidence, indicate the average person has gained weight during the lockdowns, not lost it. If evidence was coming out indicating that, on average, people had started losing weight, I would not be having this discussion.but it still took some time before I was in a mental space where I was able to lose. I feel like being understanding of others in that place, and not blaming them for all the evils of the world, is a better approach, personally.
So what if I'm "not in a mental space where I'm able to social distance"? Are people going to be understanding of me, or are they going to blame me for all the evils of the world?
"People"? Some will understand and empathize, some won't. The aggressive ones will dominate conversation (which side they're on will vary from context to context). Will there be universal approval of you? No. (And that's true in pretty much all cases, not just yours, and not just this situation.)
It also matters, I think, what your strategies are: There are careful and careless ways for higher social needs people to increase human contact. For example, there are people who are essentially podding with a small group of others, socializing more closely within the group, with agreed-upon rules about contacts outside the group. There are people who are socializing at distance and outdoors (I'm doing some of this, though it's below freezing here), or meeting in large spaces while masked. (I know this is not as satisfying as close contact, touch, etc., and that that matters more to some people than others.)
I don't know how locked down your area is. Here (despite freezing weather) there are still some limited outdoor dining or socializing options available (legally). Many workplaces have (some) people, stores are open with limitations, many things are allowed that don't involve large groups of people close together indoors in one space at the same time. Perhaps your area is more tightly restricted, I don't know. (I'm in Michigan.)
While all of us probably would like it to be possible to be "back to normal", that's not in the cards right now. Beyond that, I think it's not an all or nothing situation in reality, in many places (can't speak for yours), nor are most people's reactions completely all or nothing (more common among the outspoken ones, perhaps).
I do think it's not reasonable (for reasons I made my best shot at explaining a few pages back, so won't repeat), to blame obese people. More of them are dying, yup. Among my acquaintence (can't speak for yours), relatively more of them are staying in, ordering groceries, avoiding other people, and probably less frequently vectoring the virus than some other subgroups. (Frankly, they're mostly less mobile than average under normal circumstances, as a generality.) Are they trying to lose weight? I don't know. Some of them usually are (usually with limited success). This time of year, it seems like almost everyone is trying to lose weight, besides.
I'm sincerely sorry that you're going through what you're going through. I get that things are very difficult for people with high social needs, or with pre-existing cognitive or psychological challenges. I don't know what to do about that. I don't think the best answer for the total population is "just open things up", but that's just me.
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"People"? Some will understand and empathize, some won't. The aggressive ones will dominate conversation (which side they're on will vary from context to context). Will there be universal approval of you? No. (And that's true in pretty much all cases, not just yours, and not just this situation.)
There's definitely way less social approval of "I can't social distance because of my mental health" vs. "I can't lose weight because of my mental health." Also, people who violate social distancing laws are fined and/or imprisoned, so...yeah, big difference there.higher social needs people
My social needs have historically been lower than the average person's.I don't know how locked down your area is. Here (despite freezing weather) there are still some limited outdoor dining or socializing options available (legally). Many workplaces have (some) people, stores are open with limitations, many things are allowed that don't involve large groups of people close together indoors in one space at the same time. Perhaps your area is more tightly restricted, I don't know. (I'm in Michigan.)
Right now we can gather with up to 10 people and we can go to restaurants. (Also I just looked it up and apparently we're supposed to "wear face coverings and stay six feet apart" during indoor gatherings, which my friends and I haven't been doing, so I guess we actually did break the law...oops.)
However, in the spring and summer, we weren't allowed to socialize outside our immediate household and basically everything except grocery stores, pharmacies, and hardware stores was closed. Parks and beaches were also closed for a few months, and even after they reopened they only had 25% capacity. Many people got fined/imprisoned for socializing. My husband and I didn't have an in-person conversation with anyone besides each other between March and August.
What I'm concerned about is that, even though things are ok now, this could all be taken away at any time. A precedent has been set, and hospitalizations are going up, as we are constantly reminded. I can see my friends now, but what about next week?
Also, I would like to meet some new people, especially because we just moved to a new town where we don't know anyone (we had to leave our previous city where all my friends live because crime went up due to the lockdowns, and our car got stolen and smashed up). I don't know how to go about that with everything either closed or social distanced.
There's also still lingering psychological effects from the lockdowns. As I've said, so many people were really awful to me for pointing out the harm caused by the lockdowns and various forms of peoples' hypocrisy when it comes to COVID. Sometimes it was surprising because it was people who I didn't expect would act that way. It's made me not trust people so even when we do meet new people, I don't really know how I will determine who to socialize with. But then, like all humans, I have the biological need to socialize, so I can't just avoid people, either. Having our car stolen didn't help with the whole trusting people thing, either (also, they caught the guy who did it and he got bailed out immediately due to COVID).
I also feel like I've forgotten how to socialize normally and I still feel weird talking to people. Socialization has never come naturally to me, but I've definitely regressed, and I think my husband has regressed even more than I have (he's kind of terrified of people now, and drinks even before a Zoom meetup because of his social anxiety).
As you can imagine, all the health paranoia was awful for my OCD (which is why I spent so much time researching it in the first place, to make sure I wasn't really at that much risk from COVID). I have some strategies for managing hypochondria, but considering it's now socially frowned upon to NOT be a hypochondriac, sometimes it gets overwhelming. It also makes me angry that people are being encouraged to have hypochondria because it's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy and I lost years of my life to it in the past. I definitely considered suicide at many points during the spring and summer, although I think that's become a commonplace thing now.
Also, I've never had a problem with alcohol in my life, but now whenever I drink, I'm not able to stop. I didn't drink at all during the isolation part of the lockdown, and I still don't generally drink unless I'm out with friends. But on the occasions that I do drink, I drink either until there's no more alcohol, or until I can barely stand up, which was never the case before. I think it's somehow related to FOMO or something, like "I have to have the maximum amount of fun now because this could all be gone tomorrow." I still feel like I'm "socially starved."
That's not even getting into all the worries about what's going to happen to society overall. I've been pretty fortunate, like, I don't have to worry about being homeless or anything, but what about the people who do? What about the city where I lived for 21 years which is now collapsing into a crime-infested dumpster? What about the kids who aren't getting an education? What about the people who aren't able to keep away the suicidal thoughts? Is there going to be another Great Depression?
What angers me the most though, is just feeling like there will be no "reckoning" or acknowledgment for any of this. I've followed the rules even though I don't agree with them and they don't actually benefit me, and I've tried to give a factual assessment of all aspects of the situation, and in return, all I've gotten is insults (not from you guys, I'm just talking about in general). Nobody would ever go out of their way to help me, yet I'm expected to help them even though they won't help themselves. I feel like everyone else is "allowed" to be irresponsible but me. People don't get criticized at all by society for their unnecessary unhealthy habits that led to them being at higher risk for COVID, yet I get criticized for wanting things that every human being requires, like interactions with people.
IDK, maybe the "Covidiot shaming culture" has infected me, which is why I feel so angry about the normalization of obesity making this entire thing worse than it had to be. Because everyone else is judging and blaming other people for "not doing the right thing," so, why can't I? I would have rather minded my own business when it came to public health and had everyone else mind theirs. But since everyone else's health is now apparently my responsibility, shouldn't I get a say in how they live their lives?While all of us probably would like it to be possible to be "back to normal", that's not in the cards right now. Beyond that, I think it's not an all or nothing situation in reality, in many places (can't speak for yours), nor are most people's reactions completely all or nothing (more common among the outspoken ones, perhaps).
But if more people had lost weight earlier in the year, would we currently be having a surge in hospitalizations so large that it overwhelmed the hospitals? That's what I want to know the answer to. Surely more people losing weight would have at least mitigated the surge to some extent.
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siberiantarragon wrote: »"People"? Some will understand and empathize, some won't. The aggressive ones will dominate conversation (which side they're on will vary from context to context). Will there be universal approval of you? No. (And that's true in pretty much all cases, not just yours, and not just this situation.)
There's definitely way less social approval of "I can't social distance because of my mental health" vs. "I can't lose weight because of my mental health." Also, people who violate social distancing laws are fined and/or imprisoned, so...yeah, big difference there.higher social needs people
My social needs have historically been lower than the average person's.I don't know how locked down your area is. Here (despite freezing weather) there are still some limited outdoor dining or socializing options available (legally). Many workplaces have (some) people, stores are open with limitations, many things are allowed that don't involve large groups of people close together indoors in one space at the same time. Perhaps your area is more tightly restricted, I don't know. (I'm in Michigan.)
Right now we can gather with up to 10 people and we can go to restaurants. (Also I just looked it up and apparently we're supposed to "wear face coverings and stay six feet apart" during indoor gatherings, which my friends and I haven't been doing, so I guess we actually did break the law...oops.)
However, in the spring and summer, we weren't allowed to socialize outside our immediate household and basically everything except grocery stores, pharmacies, and hardware stores was closed. Parks and beaches were also closed for a few months, and even after they reopened they only had 25% capacity. Many people got fined/imprisoned for socializing. My husband and I didn't have an in-person conversation with anyone besides each other between March and August.
What I'm concerned about is that, even though things are ok now, this could all be taken away at any time. A precedent has been set, and hospitalizations are going up, as we are constantly reminded. I can see my friends now, but what about next week?
Also, I would like to meet some new people, especially because we just moved to a new town where we don't know anyone (we had to leave our previous city where all my friends live because crime went up due to the lockdowns, and our car got stolen and smashed up). I don't know how to go about that with everything either closed or social distanced.
There's also still lingering psychological effects from the lockdowns. As I've said, so many people were really awful to me for pointing out the harm caused by the lockdowns and various forms of peoples' hypocrisy when it comes to COVID. Sometimes it was surprising because it was people who I didn't expect would act that way. It's made me not trust people so even when we do meet new people, I don't really know how I will determine who to socialize with. But then, like all humans, I have the biological need to socialize, so I can't just avoid people, either. Having our car stolen didn't help with the whole trusting people thing, either (also, they caught the guy who did it and he got bailed out immediately due to COVID).
I also feel like I've forgotten how to socialize normally and I still feel weird talking to people. Socialization has never come naturally to me, but I've definitely regressed, and I think my husband has regressed even more than I have (he's kind of terrified of people now, and drinks even before a Zoom meetup because of his social anxiety).
As you can imagine, all the health paranoia was awful for my OCD (which is why I spent so much time researching it in the first place, to make sure I wasn't really at that much risk from COVID). I have some strategies for managing hypochondria, but considering it's now socially frowned upon to NOT be a hypochondriac, sometimes it gets overwhelming. It also makes me angry that people are being encouraged to have hypochondria because it's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy and I lost years of my life to it in the past. I definitely considered suicide at many points during the spring and summer, although I think that's become a commonplace thing now.
Also, I've never had a problem with alcohol in my life, but now whenever I drink, I'm not able to stop. I didn't drink at all during the isolation part of the lockdown, and I still don't generally drink unless I'm out with friends. But on the occasions that I do drink, I drink either until there's no more alcohol, or until I can barely stand up, which was never the case before. I think it's somehow related to FOMO or something, like "I have to have the maximum amount of fun now because this could all be gone tomorrow." I still feel like I'm "socially starved."
That's not even getting into all the worries about what's going to happen to society overall. I've been pretty fortunate, like, I don't have to worry about being homeless or anything, but what about the people who do? What about the city where I lived for 21 years which is now collapsing into a crime-infested dumpster? What about the kids who aren't getting an education? What about the people who aren't able to keep away the suicidal thoughts? Is there going to be another Great Depression?
What angers me the most though, is just feeling like there will be no "reckoning" or acknowledgment for any of this. I've followed the rules even though I don't agree with them and they don't actually benefit me, and I've tried to give a factual assessment of all aspects of the situation, and in return, all I've gotten is insults (not from you guys, I'm just talking about in general). Nobody would ever go out of their way to help me, yet I'm expected to help them even though they won't help themselves. I feel like everyone else is "allowed" to be irresponsible but me. People don't get criticized at all by society for their unnecessary unhealthy habits that led to them being at higher risk for COVID, yet I get criticized for wanting things that every human being requires, like interactions with people.
IDK, maybe the "Covidiot shaming culture" has infected me, which is why I feel so angry about the normalization of obesity making this entire thing worse than it had to be. Because everyone else is judging and blaming other people for "not doing the right thing," so, why can't I? I would have rather minded my own business when it came to public health and had everyone else mind theirs. But since everyone else's health is now apparently my responsibility, shouldn't I get a say in how they live their lives?While all of us probably would like it to be possible to be "back to normal", that's not in the cards right now. Beyond that, I think it's not an all or nothing situation in reality, in many places (can't speak for yours), nor are most people's reactions completely all or nothing (more common among the outspoken ones, perhaps).
But if more people had lost weight earlier in the year, would we currently be having a surge in hospitalizations so large that it overwhelmed the hospitals? That's what I want to know the answer to. Surely more people losing weight would have at least mitigated the surge to some extent.
As I said, I'm very sorry you're going through this. I wish I could help. I think I can't: You and I are very different.
I live alone, am socializing very little in person, going out very little, yet feel like I'm doing OK. I'd prefer to be socializing more, and would enjoy life more if I could, but I have food, clothing, shelter, some virtual or outdoor or even online textual (like this) social interactions, and that seems OK. (I too have lower social needs, but I see a contrast in difficulty of the current times for myself, vs. friends with higher social needs. Still, most of them are relatively isolating, also.)
For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past. To me, that seems pointless. I'm focused mainly on the things I can personally control, with a little attention to things I can influence but not fully control. Those are the things I can do something about, so that's where I'm putting attention. Other stuff comes into view only insofar as it creates obstacles I need to figure out how to get around or through.
I'm formerly obese, but not obese now (haven't been for 5+ years). I have no idea whether the pandemic would've encouraged me to lose weight if I hadn't already: For me, that's another of those "water under the bridge" things, not even something it had occurred to me to think about. I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .). Can't do a thing about being old (I do try to be healthy, but not specifically because of Covid, just because it seems like a generally good idea).
Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization". There's a Covid thread going over in General Health Fitness & Diet, but it's more news and strategies, not so much individual responses and coping mechanisms. There have been many threads about Covid/pandemic and weight gain/loss, or how to get workouts safely during the pandemic, but those are not this kind of thing, either. Maybe a thread could be started in Motivation & Support?
I hope you're able to find a happier, more satisfying path, sincerely.7 -
For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past.
It's not in the past though. The COVID situation is ongoing and getting worse, and is projected to last several more months at least. Even after COVID is done with, pandemics happen fairly frequently (the last one was only 10 years ago --H1N1) and the population is less and less able to handle them as their overall health declines due to obesity. Diseases that might not be pandemics in a healthier population, might be pandemics in a less healthy one. There's also the larger policy question of the responsibility of the individual to society -- is it our civic duty to maintain our personal health? So these questions won't just go away.I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .).
I wouldn't consider those factors to be blame-worthy. I also don't judge people who were obese and decided to get to a healthy weight because of COVID, or people who choose to remain obese but also disagree that everyone else should sacrifice in order to protect them.
I do wonder, though, if age has to do with our different responses to the lockdowns. I'm 29 and spent my first 22 years living in a violent, abusive household, so I feel like I barely got to live and missed out on a lot in my life, and now even more is being taken away. It sucks to not even be 30 and feel like "well, this is the limit of what I'm going to experience in life." I lost many years of my life because my family couldn't get their act together, and now it just feels like this is a variant of the same thing.Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization".
The discussion did diverge from the original point.6 -
siberiantarragon wrote: »For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past.
It's not in the past though. The COVID situation is ongoing and getting worse, and is projected to last several more months at least. Even after COVID is done with, pandemics happen fairly frequently (the last one was only 10 years ago --H1N1) and the population is less and less able to handle them as their overall health declines due to obesity. Diseases that might not be pandemics in a healthier population, might be pandemics in a less healthy one. There's also the larger policy question of the responsibility of the individual to society -- is it our civic duty to maintain our personal health? So these questions won't just go away.I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .).
I wouldn't consider those factors to be blame-worthy. I also don't judge people who were obese and decided to get to a healthy weight because of COVID, or people who choose to remain obese but also disagree that everyone else should sacrifice in order to protect them.
I do wonder, though, if age has to do with our different responses to the lockdowns. I'm 29 and spent my first 22 years living in a violent, abusive household, so I feel like I barely got to live and missed out on a lot in my life, and now even more is being taken away. It sucks to not even be 30 and feel like "well, this is the limit of what I'm going to experience in life." I lost many years of my life because my family couldn't get their act together, and now it just feels like this is a variant of the same thing.Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization".
The discussion did diverge from the original point.
Like AnnPT77, I feel for you strongly. You are clearly struggling with this a lot more than many other people, and I am very sorry about that. Faulting obese people for that will not help you, and I hope you can find help either in other discussions and conversations, from your support network, therapy etc.
From my direct and indirect observation and anecdata, many of the people who gained in the pandemic are not obese, just on the verge of normal weight. I.e. obese and normal BMI gained alike. The fact that most people gained is due to moving less when wfh, since no commute (plus probably stress eating, food inequality issues etc. but reduced movement is a huge factor). And before you say that they should have used the commute time to do extra sport - statistics show most people use that time now to do extra work! The fear of losing their livelihood is real, as well as all other stressors, mental health issues etc.
The reason governments don't put their strategy for beating the pandemic on obesity is simple - getting people to lose weight would take long to move the covid needle, that's just a very ineffective way to spend marketing dollars when you could be influencing people to wear masks and distance, which have immediate sizable impact. The greatest predictor of covid complications by far is not being obese - it's catching it in the first place.
I live in Canada - we have similar obesity rates to the states I expect, and have been doing incomparably better due to early and more complete lockdowns and solidarity and taking measures seriously.
Related to your posts here - if you find that the topic of covid and obesity is really triggering for you, I truly hope you will be able to adress it. It has nothing to do with being right or wrong and a lot to do with approaching this from a mentally healthy angle. I wish you sincerely that things will get better for you personally! Living through a pandemic is harrrrrd. Many people struggle hugely. I hope we will all get through it!9 -
Wiseandcurious wrote: »siberiantarragon wrote: »For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past.
It's not in the past though. The COVID situation is ongoing and getting worse, and is projected to last several more months at least. Even after COVID is done with, pandemics happen fairly frequently (the last one was only 10 years ago --H1N1) and the population is less and less able to handle them as their overall health declines due to obesity. Diseases that might not be pandemics in a healthier population, might be pandemics in a less healthy one. There's also the larger policy question of the responsibility of the individual to society -- is it our civic duty to maintain our personal health? So these questions won't just go away.I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .).
I wouldn't consider those factors to be blame-worthy. I also don't judge people who were obese and decided to get to a healthy weight because of COVID, or people who choose to remain obese but also disagree that everyone else should sacrifice in order to protect them.
I do wonder, though, if age has to do with our different responses to the lockdowns. I'm 29 and spent my first 22 years living in a violent, abusive household, so I feel like I barely got to live and missed out on a lot in my life, and now even more is being taken away. It sucks to not even be 30 and feel like "well, this is the limit of what I'm going to experience in life." I lost many years of my life because my family couldn't get their act together, and now it just feels like this is a variant of the same thing.Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization".
The discussion did diverge from the original point.
From my direct and indirect observation and anecdata, many of the people who gained in the pandemic are not obese, just on the verge of normal weight. I.e. obese and normal BMI gained alike. The fact that most people gained is due to moving less when wfh, since no commute (plus probably stress eating, food inequality issues etc. but reduced movement is a huge factor). And before you say that they should have used the commute time to do extra sport - statistics show most people use that time now to do extra work! The fear of losing their livelihood is real, as well as all other stressors, mental health issues etc.
Sorry people gained weight during the pandemic because they chose to eat more calories than they burned (just like weight gain over holidays, a vacation, etc).
Weight gain is not the pandemic's fault, need to look in one's own mirror.
Let the disagrees and excuses begin.9 -
northviewvintage wrote: »I think normalizing =good...glamourizing=bad ...Same for homosexuality...I think it's good to see gay people on tv, just playing regular roles not full of innuendo about what they do in the bedroom. Most people do not want to hear about it! Casting overweight people in more diverse roles wouldn't hurt. Last I read, 42% of Americans are obese, so where I'm at it's normal. Glamourizing it, in my opinion, causes a lot of confusion. Obesity is definately not healthy, but being a bit overweight might be if you have a mad passion for baking and eating bread, and know that eating those foods are worth it for you, personally, to be some pounds overweight. I am all about tolerance as long as you're not hurting others with your behavior. Here are some chunky people that I think are beautiful:
But the thing is obesity SHOULDN'T be normal. Why should we be normalizing something like obesity? That is saying it's normal, so why should anyone change if it's normal and accepted and there is nothing wrong with it.
Homosexuality is completely different. That isn’t a choice and isn’t something you can change like being obese is.11 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Wiseandcurious wrote: »siberiantarragon wrote: »For myself, I don't spend much time considering what could have been if other people had done or would do some other thing, especially if it's in the past.
It's not in the past though. The COVID situation is ongoing and getting worse, and is projected to last several more months at least. Even after COVID is done with, pandemics happen fairly frequently (the last one was only 10 years ago --H1N1) and the population is less and less able to handle them as their overall health declines due to obesity. Diseases that might not be pandemics in a healthier population, might be pandemics in a less healthy one. There's also the larger policy question of the responsibility of the individual to society -- is it our civic duty to maintain our personal health? So these questions won't just go away.I'm old (65) and have the start of COPD, so I'm at higher risk of dying, but I can't wrap my head around considering whether I should take more blame for the pandemic and its consequences because of those things (if I hadn't lived with smokers most of my life, despite not being one, I probably wouldn't have the COPD . . . .).
I wouldn't consider those factors to be blame-worthy. I also don't judge people who were obese and decided to get to a healthy weight because of COVID, or people who choose to remain obese but also disagree that everyone else should sacrifice in order to protect them.
I do wonder, though, if age has to do with our different responses to the lockdowns. I'm 29 and spent my first 22 years living in a violent, abusive household, so I feel like I barely got to live and missed out on a lot in my life, and now even more is being taken away. It sucks to not even be 30 and feel like "well, this is the limit of what I'm going to experience in life." I lost many years of my life because my family couldn't get their act together, and now it just feels like this is a variant of the same thing.Truly, I'm sympathetic, but don't feel that I have any way to help. I think this is probably not the thread for it, either, especially if we diverge from the subject of obesity and its "glamorization".
The discussion did diverge from the original point.
From my direct and indirect observation and anecdata, many of the people who gained in the pandemic are not obese, just on the verge of normal weight. I.e. obese and normal BMI gained alike. The fact that most people gained is due to moving less when wfh, since no commute (plus probably stress eating, food inequality issues etc. but reduced movement is a huge factor). And before you say that they should have used the commute time to do extra sport - statistics show most people use that time now to do extra work! The fear of losing their livelihood is real, as well as all other stressors, mental health issues etc.
Sorry people gained weight during the pandemic because they chose to eat more calories than they burned (just like weight gain over holidays, a vacation, etc).
Weight gain is not the pandemic's fault, need to look in one's own mirror.
Let the disagrees and excuses begin.
I also don't understand why there is this huge "pandemic weight gain" everyone is talking about. I've had more time than usual during the pandemic (especially quarantine) to workout and be active since I had more time instead of wasting hours commuting. Now my after work meetings are zoom so I can use that time I'd usually spend commuting exercising. (Or even during)
7 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »Well, I for one, never said that the obese are doing anything TO others, or that the obese have caused the lockdowns. Anyone thinking that I did, should reread what I wrote.
If you go back and read what I said, you will see that I clearly stated that I myself am obese.
What I find ridiculous and abhorrent is the stance that one set of preventative measures such as mask wearing and social distancing, is morally virtuous and socially imperative, while other sets of preventive measures are barely mentioned. It’s not good science, and has became extremely political. If we are truly concerned about saving lives, we need to be honest and upfront about what we can each do to mitigate our personal risk of Covid and avoid straining medical resources.
Even if it means being politically incorrect and pointing out unpleasant truths. Otherwise we place an undue burden and strain on those suffering because of the other preventative measures. Imagine if the hospitals were not overwhelmed, if many more people didn’t need to go to the hospital because their symptoms were much less severe. We wouldn’t need to have such strict lockdowns or if we did, it would be for a much shorter time. Now, I wouldn’t say that we obese have caused the long severe lockdowns, but it would be bad science to deny that the obesity rate has clearly worsened the strain on medical resources.
I haven’t seen this widely acknowledged however, or seen any public measures designed to help mitigate this significant factor. Instead, the preventative measures have clearly made it much harder to lose weight. I’m confident that if the obesity factor had been widely acknowledged, we could have had innovative measures to help encourage and initiate weight loss. We still can, if public officials really would care about saving lives and not just votes.
It IS socially imperative for us to wear masks and socially distance. There may be other things that are also important, but at the end of the day if we were all slender we'd still be in a really bad spot with COVID. So I think the decision to focus on preventing the spread of the disease is a higher priority than getting people to adopt long-term projects that will potentially reduce the risk of complications if they get it.
This doesn't mean people can't individually decide to do things or that I don't think it's a good idea.
I am not convinced that duel public health campaigns would have the outcome you think they would. I absolutely don't think they're avoiding the issue in some sort of ploy to save votes while people die.7 -
siberiantarragon wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Then it's hard to understand why we've got so many people here who think you need to exercise for hours a week to lose weight or that they must limit carbohydrates or that you have to eat breakfast or that you have to IF to get your blood sugar down or etc etc etc.
Our culture is full of garbage information about detoxing and fad diets, which is part of the reason why people struggle with weight management.
Our culture is also full of misinformation about COVID, but that doesn't stop people from vilifying others for "not following the science" when it comes to that. Pretty much any public health agency on Earth will give you identical information on how to lose weight.janejellyroll wrote: »Nobody has comorbidities for fun or because they're out to get me. That's my point. They're putting themselves at risk, I refuse to take it as a personal attack.
People who want to socialize, go back to work, get an education, etc. aren't "out to get" other people either, but they've been treated that way because they're blamed for worsening the pandemic. Obesity is also worsening the pandemic. It increases the risk of the healthcare system collapsing and care being denied to people who don't have fixable co-morbidities. The entire reason why we have to have lockdowns is to prevent the healthcare system from collapsing.Yeah, I see a serious "I'm the victim, they are evil and doing this to me" thing in this thread that is not based in any reasonable understanding of truth.
All year we've been hearing nothing but "the evil people who want to go out and socialize and reopen things are doing this to me" even though socialization is vitally necessary for human health. I don't see how this is any different.
I am not promoting misinformation about weight loss and I don't support it. I call it out when I see it, just as I do misinformation about COVID.
Socialization IS necessary for human health. I support everyone taking steps to get socialization in safe forms. It's just that those forms may look a bit different or involve smaller groups with less mixing or (insert safer behavior here). There's a difference between "I need to socialize" and "the world should operate exactly as it did pre-COVID precautions" that I think is being missed here.
If you're going out to bars or having 25 person Thanksgivings or flying to Mexico or hosting huge playdates or refusing to wear at mask at the store because of "your rights," then that's antisocial behavior. Between that and total isolation, there are levels and there are choices, some of which are being made with a consideration of risks and efforts to mitigate negative consequences.11
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