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Thoughts on the “glamourizing/normalizing” obesity vs body positivity conversations
Replies
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The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
This is the thing I don't understand about being troubled by one's life insurance in this way: If it's not the lowest price plan that offers adequate coverage, but one that doesn't do the FT thing is adequate and cheaper, it would make sense to buy the competitor (and send the CEO of the original insurance company a polite letter, preferably the old-fashioned paper kind, explaining why weight penalities with no other dimensions are objectively dumb). If it is the lowest-priced adequate plan, how much does it really matter how they structure the baling wire and bubble gum that holds the plan together?
I agree the policy is dumb as stated.
From an economic stand point, I don't think it is so clear they would be objectively dumb. Sure, it is possible for BMI to not track adiposity, but even right at that spot, that doesn't mean BMI isn't predicting health issues regardless of adiposity. Sleep obstruction and knee injury risks are just as bad for people at high BMI's, regardless of their composition.
Though, even then, if composition is the health risk predictor, it could be the case that it would not be worth the insurance company to do the work to review deeper risks to offer a differential rate. Few people with a high BMI are the kinds that have a good composition. The cost of testing or even the cost of having a system that can verify testing might not be worth it to either the insurer or the insured.
And yes, the person talk about weight, without BMI / height involved. I don't know the statistics there, but it might be the case that height offers certain risks so that even being a high weight but tall is still a risk.2 -
The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.0 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
This is the thing I don't understand about being troubled by one's life insurance in this way: If it's not the lowest price plan that offers adequate coverage, but one that doesn't do the FT thing is adequate and cheaper, it would make sense to buy the competitor (and send the CEO of the original insurance company a polite letter, preferably the old-fashioned paper kind, explaining why weight penalities with no other dimensions are objectively dumb). If it is the lowest-priced adequate plan, how much does it really matter how they structure the baling wire and bubble gum that holds the plan together?
I agree the policy is dumb as stated.
From an economic stand point, I don't think it is so clear they would be objectively dumb. Sure, it is possible for BMI to not track adiposity, but even right at that spot, that doesn't mean BMI isn't predicting health issues regardless of adiposity. Sleep obstruction and knee injury risks are just as bad for people at high BMI's, regardless of their composition.
Though, even then, if composition is the health risk predictor, it could be the case that it would not be worth the insurance company to do the work to review deeper risks to offer a differential rate. Few people with a high BMI are the kinds that have a good composition. The cost of testing or even the cost of having a system that can verify testing might not be worth it to either the insurer or the insured.
And yes, the person talk about weight, without BMI / height involved. I don't know the statistics there, but it might be the case that height offers certain risks so that even being a high weight but tall is still a risk.
I'm not sure BMI would be objectively dumb. Not great, but I still say absolute weight is objectively dumb, especially in the context I cited: Pricing your product above the competition as a result.
PP said the weight threshold was 154 for women. At 5'7" - not super tall for a woman - 154 is normal BMI. And 174 for men, which is normal BMI at 5'11".0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.
Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.0 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.
Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.
Congrats on the weight loss.
You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.5 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.
Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.
The fact that you don't feel the need for a whole life policy in no way eliminates the possibility that the person who stated what they were paying for an unspecified policy and the person who questioned whether that was an excessive amount were talking about different kinds of policy or policies with different benefits (payouts).0 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.
Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.
Congrats on the weight loss.
You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.
as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.
Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.
Congrats on the weight loss.
You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.
as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.
Sorry for your loss. Of course insurance is important but a term life insurance policy is much lower cost for the same death benefit.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.
Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.
Congrats on the weight loss.
You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.
as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.
Sorry for your loss. Of course insurance is important but a term life insurance policy is much lower cost for the same death benefit.
Precisely.
The cost savings is substantial and one could use the funds to invest into anything else and get a better rate of return.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.
Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.
Congrats on the weight loss.
You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.
as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.
Sorry for your loss. Of course insurance is important but a term life insurance policy is much lower cost for the same death benefit.
Precisely.
The cost savings is substantial and one could use the funds to invest into anything else and get a better rate of return.
I'm glad to hear that - gives me more reason for why I chose to stick with the term instead of pushing for whole life. My aunt works for State Farm and said earlier this year that I ought to have whole life but I never really saw the benefit. I once had a whole life policy through modern woodmen, but when I changed agents when I moved out on my own and she looked at the policy, she told me that the way it was set up, it was actually going to be losing money over time and not making it.
I think I'd rather continue to use the difference to sock into my 401k.
Course, I'm single with no dependents, so all I really need is enough to close out my estate and bury me. I'm sure its a different thing all together if you have family you'll be leaving behind.
In any case, my post was just to say that I understand what the person above was talking about in saying that because of their weight, they were paying a higher rate or being denied coverage - I've experienced the same.2 -
Obesity is "normal" in our present society due to the very large number of people who present as obese. However, there needs to be a happy medium between glamorizing and calling it a moral failure, unattractive, gross, etc. Yet, I have so much freedom at the gym as a 240# woman - no unwanted attention or stares - I contrast this with my size 0 daughter who feels the need to work out before 6 AM to avoid the "creepers" staring at her behind. Hey, I know, let's stop objectifying bodies & sizes, period.8
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I think there should be a balance between being kind to people and also not spreadin BS when it comes to health and fitness.
If you are 60-100lbs over weight you are not healthy, period. You simply may not have had it catch up to you yet but very few people that are 60+ over weight have zero health related issues. Also, statistics show that when you are obese you don't live as long. I think this "healthy at any size" crap is detrimental, it's simply not correct and could be having a negative impact on society.18 -
I think you can be body positive without idolising fat. I saw a documentary where some of the people on it idolised fat and were in denial about how being overweight effected their health.
I am body positive but I want to lose weight because I want to be healthy and live a long healthy life6 -
For the I don't even know how many'th time, body positivity is about so much more than weight.
I grew up as a black child in predominantly white schools and was made fun of because of various facial and other bodily features, none of which were about weight (I was thin until my early 20s and muscular as a teenager). My lips, my nose, my hair, my skin, etc. You know what I could have used a large dose of? Body positivity. There's a recent episode of the NPR show Code Switch that talks about this in more depth.15 -
I consider myself to have a fairly healthy body image in that I understand that I'm fat. And under the fat is not a 5'11" B cup model. What's under the fat (Based on family members of various sizes and ages) is the sort of body guys liked to paint on airplanes. Even when we lose weight, we have a lot of T & A. We're muscular, not sleek. And I'm good with this, because I like being strong and powerful.
BUT. I don't want to be 100 pounds over weight. And I don't want to have all this hanging skin on my front (courtesy of three large babies). I can love the fact that I'm a powerful curved brick house of a woman, while disliking the excess and wanting to not have to dress like I'm six months pregnant due to all the loose skin.
The problem I see with the social disapproval issue is that if you smoke and you don't like the social disapproval, you can stop today. Wash your clothes, and no one in public will know that you smoked, the day after you quit. It will take me most of a year before people see me as somewhere closer to acceptable size, and I guarantee because of my build, even when I get my body to where I want it, people will think I should still lose 15 pounds.
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Sometimes it really is food addiction.
My ex had a mother who was a real piece of work. She told him what a pig he was as she gave him a serving of his favorite foods. She never said she loved him, just baked him a cake. Yeah, he grew up with a really messed up attitude toward food. He was obese his whole life. That, combined with 20 years of smoking, got him a heart attack at 51. Due to the lung damage, he was on a respirator and tube fed for three and a half months. He lost 150 pounds. He had about another hundred to go; then, with an abdominoplasty, he would have been normal weight and looked like everyone else. I don't know anyone with obesity issues who wouldn't trade three months of sleeping through life to lose 150 pounds! What a gift! Over halfway there already! And I was willing to cook him whatever diet he wanted to go on to keep it off.
In six months he put it all back on and an extra fifty pounds for good measure. He refused to eat better. Instead, he had second breakfasts, and heavy lunches, and dinners, and a midnight supper, and didn't move much. Now he has emphysema and congestive heart failure, and is diabetic. It broke my heart to watch this, but you can't make someone want to break their addiction, you just have to wait until they do.
I couldn't hang on that long. We're now divorced. And now that I'm not around his addiction, I can work on my own weight issues. (He wouldn't let me diet either.) I don't think he can ever break that addiction. And that's a pity. But social disapproval never moved him. Addicts don't care about that. Or, at least, they care until they find out the restaurant offers not only french fries, but cheese sauce and bacon to top them.14 -
I think it's been said several times on this thread and throughout MFP that outwardly shaming someone's body will only create further isolation and mental unwellness, hindering change. It's better to understand why that person is obese, rather than just being a jerk from afar.
A little over a year ago I was diagnosed with MDD (depression). My doctor determined it was more internalized, meaning it's more of a chemical imbalance than something external (like a traumatic event) causing the depression. They placed me on SSRIs for the longterm. The meds have worked tremendously for my mental health, but a side-effect was that I gained over 20lbs. The drugs both create a sweet tooth that's hard to ignore, plus you just seem to ... gain weight. I'm a bit of a gym-addict, so it wasn't as bad as some others in my situation, but you can see how a person's experience can create a situation that makes weight gain hard to avoid. My doctor didn't seem concerned that I gained weight, but was more concerned that the weight would cause me to stop taking the SSRIs.
At one point last year I felt a bit low about my body ... it was summer, and I didn't feel like socializing with friends at the beach because I didnt have a beach body. Isolation creates worse mental health, and worsens physical health. I also started thinking ... A bathing suit is active wear after all, and so anyone shaming a person for wearing a bathing suit cannot say they support healthy habits, because they are LITERALLY preventing someone from wearing active wear. Anyway, I went to the beach with my friends in the end.
My end point is that I believe body positivity helps more people feel comfortable to go out and engage with the world in the body they're in. In my own experience it helps counter isolation and can prevent habits that create poor health.11 -
I think what needs to be encouraged and high-lighted in society is loving yourself NO MATTER what size you are. Life is a precious gift, and it needs to be cherished and respected. Care should be given to our bodies, but this obsession with body image is unhealthy. Should we strive for health? Yes!!! does this look the same for everyone?? No!! Stop judging everyone else and focus on your own happiness and gift of life. ✨💪🏻✨
My perspective.
I hope it resonates with others!11 -
There is something or some things we are not doing right if we have the time and energy to promote glamourising being the victim. We are playing at the hands of big pharma, food industries.
We know those models of body positivity are a cry for help, but after you wipe the tears and talk about your hardships in your journey, isn’t the next step to try and be healthy again?3 -
There is something or some things we are not doing right if we have the time and energy to promote glamourising being the victim. We are playing at the hands of big pharma, food industries.
We know those models of body positivity are a cry for help, but after you wipe the tears and talk about your hardships in your journey, isn’t the next step to try and be healthy again?
I don't think the food industry really has an interest in normalizing obesity. I think they are actually better served by the guilt eating that can come from feelings of shame at being overweight or obese.7
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