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Thoughts on the “glamourizing/normalizing” obesity vs body positivity conversations

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  • CSARdiverCSARdiver Posts: 6,208Member Member Posts: 6,208Member Member
    Twiley510 wrote: »
    "ellie1 wrote:
    What the hell is this? It's only based on weight and nothing else? What if you're a 5'10" female at 154? Much different than a 5'0" female at 154lbs. 154 and muscular is much different than 154 and mostly fat. In a sense I can understand higher risk clients paying a higher premium, but it has to be based on actual quantifiable measures from health professionals, or a habit like smoking, not an arbitrary number on the scale. I'm surprised there haven't been lawsuits against companies with policies like this.

    It is ridiculous to be sure, but who could actually afford to fight such a thing? Insurance companies can afford to hire the best lawyers. It would have to come down to a class action suit and it seems those are largely symbolic even if there is a victory.

    At this point, it is doubtful I will have my FT lifted. Seasonal affective disorder along with major changes at work lead to a mini-breakdown and some major binge eating. I gained 20 lbs in three weeks. Today, I feel I may have (hope I have) turned the corner to return to my prior mindset. Trying my best to get back to my previous eating plan and shake 30 lbs before January 1st.

    What provider is this? Have you called and asked what the acronym stands for?
    edited October 25
  • hesn92hesn92 Posts: 5,653Member Member Posts: 5,653Member Member
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Posts: 12,798Member Member Posts: 12,798Member Member
    hesn92 wrote: »
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.

    This is the thing I don't understand about being troubled by one's life insurance in this way: If it's not the lowest price plan that offers adequate coverage, but one that doesn't do the FT thing is adequate and cheaper, it would make sense to buy the competitor (and send the CEO of the original insurance company a polite letter, preferably the old-fashioned paper kind, explaining why weight penalities with no other dimensions are objectively dumb). If it is the lowest-priced adequate plan, how much does it really matter how they structure the baling wire and bubble gum that holds the plan together?

    I agree the policy is dumb as stated.
  • magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 867Member Member Posts: 867Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.

    This is the thing I don't understand about being troubled by one's life insurance in this way: If it's not the lowest price plan that offers adequate coverage, but one that doesn't do the FT thing is adequate and cheaper, it would make sense to buy the competitor (and send the CEO of the original insurance company a polite letter, preferably the old-fashioned paper kind, explaining why weight penalities with no other dimensions are objectively dumb). If it is the lowest-priced adequate plan, how much does it really matter how they structure the baling wire and bubble gum that holds the plan together?

    I agree the policy is dumb as stated.

    From an economic stand point, I don't think it is so clear they would be objectively dumb. Sure, it is possible for BMI to not track adiposity, but even right at that spot, that doesn't mean BMI isn't predicting health issues regardless of adiposity. Sleep obstruction and knee injury risks are just as bad for people at high BMI's, regardless of their composition.
    Though, even then, if composition is the health risk predictor, it could be the case that it would not be worth the insurance company to do the work to review deeper risks to offer a differential rate. Few people with a high BMI are the kinds that have a good composition. The cost of testing or even the cost of having a system that can verify testing might not be worth it to either the insurer or the insured.

    And yes, the person talk about weight, without BMI / height involved. I don't know the statistics there, but it might be the case that height offers certain risks so that even being a high weight but tall is still a risk.
  • lynn_glenmontlynn_glenmont Posts: 7,237Member Member Posts: 7,237Member Member
    hesn92 wrote: »
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.

    In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Posts: 12,798Member Member Posts: 12,798Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.

    This is the thing I don't understand about being troubled by one's life insurance in this way: If it's not the lowest price plan that offers adequate coverage, but one that doesn't do the FT thing is adequate and cheaper, it would make sense to buy the competitor (and send the CEO of the original insurance company a polite letter, preferably the old-fashioned paper kind, explaining why weight penalities with no other dimensions are objectively dumb). If it is the lowest-priced adequate plan, how much does it really matter how they structure the baling wire and bubble gum that holds the plan together?

    I agree the policy is dumb as stated.

    From an economic stand point, I don't think it is so clear they would be objectively dumb. Sure, it is possible for BMI to not track adiposity, but even right at that spot, that doesn't mean BMI isn't predicting health issues regardless of adiposity. Sleep obstruction and knee injury risks are just as bad for people at high BMI's, regardless of their composition.
    Though, even then, if composition is the health risk predictor, it could be the case that it would not be worth the insurance company to do the work to review deeper risks to offer a differential rate. Few people with a high BMI are the kinds that have a good composition. The cost of testing or even the cost of having a system that can verify testing might not be worth it to either the insurer or the insured.

    And yes, the person talk about weight, without BMI / height involved. I don't know the statistics there, but it might be the case that height offers certain risks so that even being a high weight but tall is still a risk.

    I'm not sure BMI would be objectively dumb. Not great, but I still say absolute weight is objectively dumb, especially in the context I cited: Pricing your product above the competition as a result.

    PP said the weight threshold was 154 for women. At 5'7" - not super tall for a woman - 154 is normal BMI. And 174 for men, which is normal BMI at 5'11".
  • bmeadows380bmeadows380 Posts: 1,309Member Member Posts: 1,309Member Member
    hesn92 wrote: »
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.

    In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.

    Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.

    Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Posts: 605Member Member Posts: 605Member Member
    hesn92 wrote: »
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.

    In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.

    Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.

    Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.

    Congrats on the weight loss.

    You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.
  • lynn_glenmontlynn_glenmont Posts: 7,237Member Member Posts: 7,237Member Member
    hesn92 wrote: »
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.

    In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.

    Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.

    Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.

    The fact that you don't feel the need for a whole life policy in no way eliminates the possibility that the person who stated what they were paying for an unspecified policy and the person who questioned whether that was an excessive amount were talking about different kinds of policy or policies with different benefits (payouts).
  • mbaker566mbaker566 Posts: 10,226Member Member Posts: 10,226Member Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.

    In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.

    Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.

    Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.

    Congrats on the weight loss.

    You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.

    as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Posts: 605Member Member Posts: 605Member Member
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.

    In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.

    Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.

    Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.

    Congrats on the weight loss.

    You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.

    as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.

    Sorry for your loss. Of course insurance is important but a term life insurance policy is much lower cost for the same death benefit.
  • CSARdiverCSARdiver Posts: 6,208Member Member Posts: 6,208Member Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.

    In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.

    Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.

    Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.

    Congrats on the weight loss.

    You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.

    as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.

    Sorry for your loss. Of course insurance is important but a term life insurance policy is much lower cost for the same death benefit.

    Precisely.

    The cost savings is substantial and one could use the funds to invest into anything else and get a better rate of return.
  • bmeadows380bmeadows380 Posts: 1,309Member Member Posts: 1,309Member Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    hesn92 wrote: »
    The life insurance thing... did you shop around? The amount you have tacked on for the "FT" whatever that is, that's more than my entire yearly premium alone. Granted I'm young and had all good markers on my health exam.

    In addition to age and health, major factors in the cost of life insurance are the amount of the benefit (payout if you die) and whether it is term insurance or whole life. Without knowing these details, it's absurd to try to do comparisons.

    Several years ago, my State Farm agent suggested I apply for life insurance so I'd get a mutli-policy discount for my vehicle, so agreed. It was a whole life policy, and even though I had no existing health issues other than my weight, I was denied coverage because I did not meet requirements of the weight table.

    Granted, its been something like 14 years ago, so the policy may have changed; I've lost 90 lbs in the meantime but haven't tried again as I have a very good term life policy through my employer that remains mine even if I leave the company, and I'm perfectly happy with that - I have no significant other and no children and thus no beneficiaries that need to be cared for, and my policy is more than adequate to bury me and close out my estate, so I've never seen the need for a whole life policy.

    Congrats on the weight loss.

    You're lucky you were denied a whole life policy. One of the worst financial products out there from a consumer point of view.

    as someone who had to bury someone and deal with the mess after, i would have appreciated the financial assistance of a life insurance policy.

    Sorry for your loss. Of course insurance is important but a term life insurance policy is much lower cost for the same death benefit.

    Precisely.

    The cost savings is substantial and one could use the funds to invest into anything else and get a better rate of return.

    I'm glad to hear that - gives me more reason for why I chose to stick with the term instead of pushing for whole life. My aunt works for State Farm and said earlier this year that I ought to have whole life but I never really saw the benefit. I once had a whole life policy through modern woodmen, but when I changed agents when I moved out on my own and she looked at the policy, she told me that the way it was set up, it was actually going to be losing money over time and not making it.

    I think I'd rather continue to use the difference to sock into my 401k.

    Course, I'm single with no dependents, so all I really need is enough to close out my estate and bury me. I'm sure its a different thing all together if you have family you'll be leaving behind.

    In any case, my post was just to say that I understand what the person above was talking about in saying that because of their weight, they were paying a higher rate or being denied coverage - I've experienced the same.
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