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Yes And No
Voyager408
Posts: 3 Member
in Debate Club
First of all I agree that you have to be able to accept yourself as you are. If you don't, you may lose the weight but still won't be happy with your body. That said I don't agree with people knowingly making themselves fat. But before you start the fat shaming, which never works, you should consider whether an overweight person has an underlying medical condition. Though I've heard people mention underactive thyroid as an acceptable reason for being overweight but what about arthritis? If you can't move and have to rely on convenience food like I do during a flare up with my RA, of course you're going to put on weight. That is just one possibility but I have read a news article about five years ago that about half of people who are overweight/obese have an undiagnosed health condition causing the weight gain. So before having a go at a fat person, encourage them to visit their doctor first to rule out any health problems. There are many reasons a person might be fat and not all of them physical.
In short, you need to be body positive in order to lose weight otherwise nothing will change. In short there should be more help for overweight people to fight the reason that they are fat, be that a health condition or an unhealthy connection to food.
In short, you need to be body positive in order to lose weight otherwise nothing will change. In short there should be more help for overweight people to fight the reason that they are fat, be that a health condition or an unhealthy connection to food.
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Replies
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I agree. But something most people don't understand about obesity- overeating/ bingeing can also be caused by mental problems or past trauma. People who fat shame make me sick. Especially the ones who say "Well, obese people who have thyroid problems or mobility problems are ok, but on the whole, obese people are fat lazy slobs." You see my physical appearance, not my mental health. Besides, unless I'm laying directly on top of you, my weight is none of your *kitten* concern.4
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Voyager408 wrote: »First of all I agree that you have to be able to accept yourself as you are. If you don't, you may lose the weight but still won't be happy with your body. That said I don't agree with people knowingly making themselves fat. But before you start the fat shaming, which never works, you should consider whether an overweight person has an underlying medical condition. Though I've heard people mention underactive thyroid as an acceptable reason for being overweight but what about arthritis? If you can't move and have to rely on convenience food like I do during a flare up with my RA, of course you're going to put on weight. That is just one possibility but I have read a news article about five years ago that about half of people who are overweight/obese have an undiagnosed health condition causing the weight gain. So before having a go at a fat person, encourage them to visit their doctor first to rule out any health problems. There are many reasons a person might be fat and not all of them physical.
In short, you need to be body positive in order to lose weight otherwise nothing will change. In short there should be more help for overweight people to fight the reason that they are fat, be that a health condition or an unhealthy connection to food.
I don't think anyone "knowingly makes themselves fat". Nobody intentionally tries to be obese. Sure, many of us got obese by making decisions that caused it, such as being inactive and overeating foods. But when I was doing that, never once did I want the outcome to be gaining weight.
I don't think anybody should ever "have a go at a fat person", regardless of the reason that the person is obese or overweight. You should just be decent to all other humans, regardless if you find their weight gain morally justified or not. If someone is obese and asks for help losing weight, by all means, help guide them and introduce them to things like MFP that can help them with their journey. But if they don't, it's best just to mind one's own business and be kind.9 -
I see a lot more “fat person hate” online than in real life. Anonymity brings out the worst in people.10
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Voyager408 wrote: »First of all I agree that you have to be able to accept yourself as you are. If you don't, you may lose the weight but still won't be happy with your body. That said I don't agree with people knowingly making themselves fat. But before you start the fat shaming, which never works, you should consider whether an overweight person has an underlying medical condition. Though I've heard people mention underactive thyroid as an acceptable reason for being overweight but what about arthritis? If you can't move and have to rely on convenience food like I do during a flare up with my RA, of course you're going to put on weight. That is just one possibility but I have read a news article about five years ago that about half of people who are overweight/obese have an undiagnosed health condition causing the weight gain. So before having a go at a fat person, encourage them to visit their doctor first to rule out any health problems. There are many reasons a person might be fat and not all of them physical.
In short, you need to be body positive in order to lose weight otherwise nothing will change. In short there should be more help for overweight people to fight the reason that they are fat, be that a health condition or an unhealthy connection to food.
Of course, the problem is that doctors are people too, and inclined to share the biases of the societies they live in, to the point that they often times view nearly any problem that an overweight or obese person presents with as a result of the weight issues, not a cause. So good luck with with getting a doctor to rule out health problems.7 -
Voyager408 wrote: »First of all I agree that you have to be able to accept yourself as you are. If you don't, you may lose the weight but still won't be happy with your body. That said I don't agree with people knowingly making themselves fat. But before you start the fat shaming, which never works, you should consider whether an overweight person has an underlying medical condition. Though I've heard people mention underactive thyroid as an acceptable reason for being overweight but what about arthritis? If you can't move and have to rely on convenience food like I do during a flare up with my RA, of course you're going to put on weight. That is just one possibility but I have read a news article about five years ago that about half of people who are overweight/obese have an undiagnosed health condition causing the weight gain. So before having a go at a fat person, encourage them to visit their doctor first to rule out any health problems. There are many reasons a person might be fat and not all of them physical.
In short, you need to be body positive in order to lose weight otherwise nothing will change. In short there should be more help for overweight people to fight the reason that they are fat, be that a health condition or an unhealthy connection to food.
To the bolded:
An under-active thyroid can be easily remedied with getting on the correct dosage of medication, though. So many people just blame their thyroid for their obesity when, if they'd gone to a doctor, the situation - if indeed it was thyroid-related - can be rectified. I've been hypothyroid for 4 decades. I've been taking medication for that length of time, too. When I got overweight, I knew I couldn't just blame it on my thyroid. I got overweight because I was eating too damn much.
The same basic principle applies with RA, which I also have. On my bad days, I know that, to a degree, I have to force myself to be somewhat active. It really helps. If I just sit around, I'll seize up like a rusty old car. But I also know that - regardless of whatever food is readily available - I simply have to eat less of it to compensate for my inactivity.
I guess what I'm saying is I abhor the victim mentality. It's way too easy to fall into and very hard to climb back out of. Control what you can control and compensate when needed.
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Voyager408 wrote: »First of all I agree that you have to be able to accept yourself as you are. If you don't, you may lose the weight but still won't be happy with your body. That said I don't agree with people knowingly making themselves fat. But before you start the fat shaming, which never works, you should consider whether an overweight person has an underlying medical condition. Though I've heard people mention underactive thyroid as an acceptable reason for being overweight but what about arthritis? If you can't move and have to rely on convenience food like I do during a flare up with my RA, of course you're going to put on weight. That is just one possibility but I have read a news article about five years ago that about half of people who are overweight/obese have an undiagnosed health condition causing the weight gain. So before having a go at a fat person, encourage them to visit their doctor first to rule out any health problems. There are many reasons a person might be fat and not all of them physical.
In short, you need to be body positive in order to lose weight otherwise nothing will change. In short there should be more help for overweight people to fight the reason that they are fat, be that a health condition or an unhealthy connection to food.
I don't think anyone "knowingly makes themselves fat". Nobody intentionally tries to be obese. Sure, many of us got obese by making decisions that caused it, such as being inactive and overeating foods. But when I was doing that, never once did I want the outcome to be gaining weight.
I don't think anybody should ever "have a go at a fat person", regardless of the reason that the person is obese or overweight. You should just be decent to all other humans, regardless if you find their weight gain morally justified or not. If someone is obese and asks for help losing weight, by all means, help guide them and introduce them to things like MFP that can help them with their journey. But if they don't, it's best just to mind one's own business and be kind.
A lot of this.
I don't see why it matters if the person has an underlying medical issue. Why does a medical issue matter? What if the person has actual genes that change the level of reward perception for food? Is that a medical issue?
It seems to me the idea that one can divvy out which are "acceptable" and "unacceptable" medical conditions for being overweight or obese come down to believing in some kind of mind-body dualism. So these are diseases of the flesh, and therefore they are "acceptable" reasons one can be overweight and there not be "fault".
I also don't agree with OP's assertion that one has to be body positive to lose weight. Just to give a glib example, I think anorexics tend to be very body negative and are the people who are too successful at losing weight.10 -
Voyager408 wrote: »First of all I agree that you have to be able to accept yourself as you are. If you don't, you may lose the weight but still won't be happy with your body. That said I don't agree with people knowingly making themselves fat. But before you start the fat shaming, which never works, you should consider whether an overweight person has an underlying medical condition. Though I've heard people mention underactive thyroid as an acceptable reason for being overweight but what about arthritis? If you can't move and have to rely on convenience food like I do during a flare up with my RA, of course you're going to put on weight. That is just one possibility but I have read a news article about five years ago that about half of people who are overweight/obese have an undiagnosed health condition causing the weight gain. So before having a go at a fat person, encourage them to visit their doctor first to rule out any health problems. There are many reasons a person might be fat and not all of them physical.
In short, you need to be body positive in order to lose weight otherwise nothing will change. In short there should be more help for overweight people to fight the reason that they are fat, be that a health condition or an unhealthy connection to food.
This is probably a semantic thing but if being "body positive" means being comfortable and happy with your body in its current state then I would argue that actually you can't be body positive if you are going to lose weight because the first thing that needs to happen is you need to decide that you are not satisfied with your body in its current state.
The only times in my life where I lost weight successfully were the times where I decided I wasn't happy with my body and I wanted to change it. Is that body positivity?11 -
Feel free to correct me if you think this is wrong but to me when people say they need to be "body positive" what they really mean is that they need to be able to be effective at what they put their mind to and what they have determined is that if they are unhappy about their body it is so distracting as to make them ineffective. That is a difficult situation to be in for sure, but it certainly is not true that anyone who is dissatisfied by their body is paralyzed by this.
There have been times I looked at my body and decided I didn't like what I saw and wanted to change it and I found that rather motivating not demotivating because to me my body is just a thing that carries me around like a car and if I want an upgrade I just need to put the work in. If I decided one day that my car was an unattractive thing and that bothered me enough to want to change it then I'd take the time to put money aside with the intent of buying a new car...the idea that my car was ugly wouldn't paralyze me into inaction. I don't really have a lot of emotion associated with the idea that I am dissatisfied with my body any more than I'd have being dissatisfied with my car. Right now I'm not very satisfied with my body but its not a high priority for me and thats fine...doesn't bother me. By my analogy it'd be like if I didn't think my car was that great but I didn't really think buying a new car was something I wanted to be doing right now so I just kept my old car realizing that it was my choice to do so and I could change my mind later if I wanted to.
I get and accept that for some people the state of their body is a very emotional issue for them that has associated anxieties that can ruin their effectiveness and cause them to become demotivated to even try. I don't really have solutions for that, that is hard, but making broad statements about how it is not possible to lose weight if you aren't body positive...well, like most broadly made statements its pretty easy to show why that isn't true.4 -
I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.6 -
nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Voyager408 wrote: »First of all I agree that you have to be able to accept yourself as you are. If you don't, you may lose the weight but still won't be happy with your body. That said I don't agree with people knowingly making themselves fat. But before you start the fat shaming, which never works, you should consider whether an overweight person has an underlying medical condition. Though I've heard people mention underactive thyroid as an acceptable reason for being overweight but what about arthritis? If you can't move and have to rely on convenience food like I do during a flare up with my RA, of course you're going to put on weight. That is just one possibility but I have read a news article about five years ago that about half of people who are overweight/obese have an undiagnosed health condition causing the weight gain. So before having a go at a fat person, encourage them to visit their doctor first to rule out any health problems. There are many reasons a person might be fat and not all of them physical.
In short, you need to be body positive in order to lose weight otherwise nothing will change. In short there should be more help for overweight people to fight the reason that they are fat, be that a health condition or an unhealthy connection to food.
This is probably a semantic thing but if being "body positive" means being comfortable and happy with your body in its current state then I would argue that actually you can't be body positive if you are going to lose weight because the first thing that needs to happen is you need to decide that you are not satisfied with your body in its current state.
The only times in my life where I lost weight successfully were the times where I decided I wasn't happy with my body and I wanted to change it. Is that body positivity?
It's still probably semantics, but it totally makes sense to me to be comfortable and happy with my body, but still want to change it. Just because something, pretty much anything, is fine at the point where it is now, doesn't mean it can't be improved, or make that improvement not worth pursuing.
I was pretty contented in my fat body: It could do cool stuff, and helped me move through the world doing interesting things that would've been darned difficult to do without it. But it became obvious to me that it needed to be healthier, and that weight loss was the necessary action to take. Now I'm happy in my healthy-weight body, but there are still things I'd like to improve about how it functions, such as some aspects of strength and athletic performance.
It's a process, and I'm always at a point in the process, with opportunities for improvement. It doesn't require unhappiness with the current state, necessarily, for me. YMMV, obviously.4 -
I'm a care giver. The lady I've been taking care of for the past 2 years has lost a little weight after she had a stroke & was in a wheelchair before she got a brace put on her leg & is able to walk very slowly with a cane for a limited amount of time in her mobile home to the restroom, bedroom. On the other hand I have a friend who is obese & also in a wheelchair & she admits she's obese because she loves to eat. She can stand for limited time & goes to a rehab place to exercise in a pool but she admits to eating a lot0
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Voyager408 wrote: »First of all I agree that you have to be able to accept yourself as you are. If you don't, you may lose the weight but still won't be happy with your body. That said I don't agree with people knowingly making themselves fat. But before you start the fat shaming, which never works, you should consider whether an overweight person has an underlying medical condition. Though I've heard people mention underactive thyroid as an acceptable reason for being overweight but what about arthritis? If you can't move and have to rely on convenience food like I do during a flare up with my RA, of course you're going to put on weight. That is just one possibility but I have read a news article about five years ago that about half of people who are overweight/obese have an undiagnosed health condition causing the weight gain. So before having a go at a fat person, encourage them to visit their doctor first to rule out any health problems. There are many reasons a person might be fat and not all of them physical.
In short, you need to be body positive in order to lose weight otherwise nothing will change. In short there should be more help for overweight people to fight the reason that they are fat, be that a health condition or an unhealthy connection to food.
This is probably a semantic thing but if being "body positive" means being comfortable and happy with your body in its current state then I would argue that actually you can't be body positive if you are going to lose weight because the first thing that needs to happen is you need to decide that you are not satisfied with your body in its current state.
The only times in my life where I lost weight successfully were the times where I decided I wasn't happy with my body and I wanted to change it. Is that body positivity?
It's still probably semantics, but it totally makes sense to me to be comfortable and happy with my body, but still want to change it. Just because something, pretty much anything, is fine at the point where it is now, doesn't mean it can't be improved, or make that improvement not worth pursuing.
I was pretty contented in my fat body: It could do cool stuff, and helped me move through the world doing interesting things that would've been darned difficult to do without it. But it became obvious to me that it needed to be healthier, and that weight loss was the necessary action to take. Now I'm happy in my healthy-weight body, but there are still things I'd like to improve about how it functions, such as some aspects of strength and athletic performance.
It's a process, and I'm always at a point in the process, with opportunities for improvement. It doesn't require unhappiness with the current state, necessarily, for me. YMMV, obviously.
My mileage definitely varied. There was no being comfortable in my body when I was at full weight. Appearance and external treatment aside how much you carry and how you carry it can create a whole host of limitations. Some of those limitations involved physical pain.1 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Voyager408 wrote: »First of all I agree that you have to be able to accept yourself as you are. If you don't, you may lose the weight but still won't be happy with your body. That said I don't agree with people knowingly making themselves fat. But before you start the fat shaming, which never works, you should consider whether an overweight person has an underlying medical condition. Though I've heard people mention underactive thyroid as an acceptable reason for being overweight but what about arthritis? If you can't move and have to rely on convenience food like I do during a flare up with my RA, of course you're going to put on weight. That is just one possibility but I have read a news article about five years ago that about half of people who are overweight/obese have an undiagnosed health condition causing the weight gain. So before having a go at a fat person, encourage them to visit their doctor first to rule out any health problems. There are many reasons a person might be fat and not all of them physical.
In short, you need to be body positive in order to lose weight otherwise nothing will change. In short there should be more help for overweight people to fight the reason that they are fat, be that a health condition or an unhealthy connection to food.
This is probably a semantic thing but if being "body positive" means being comfortable and happy with your body in its current state then I would argue that actually you can't be body positive if you are going to lose weight because the first thing that needs to happen is you need to decide that you are not satisfied with your body in its current state.
The only times in my life where I lost weight successfully were the times where I decided I wasn't happy with my body and I wanted to change it. Is that body positivity?
It's still probably semantics, but it totally makes sense to me to be comfortable and happy with my body, but still want to change it. Just because something, pretty much anything, is fine at the point where it is now, doesn't mean it can't be improved, or make that improvement not worth pursuing.
I was pretty contented in my fat body: It could do cool stuff, and helped me move through the world doing interesting things that would've been darned difficult to do without it. But it became obvious to me that it needed to be healthier, and that weight loss was the necessary action to take. Now I'm happy in my healthy-weight body, but there are still things I'd like to improve about how it functions, such as some aspects of strength and athletic performance.
It's a process, and I'm always at a point in the process, with opportunities for improvement. It doesn't require unhappiness with the current state, necessarily, for me. YMMV, obviously.
My mileage definitely varied. There was no being comfortable in my body when I was at full weight. Appearance and external treatment aside how much you carry and how you carry it can create a whole host of limitations. Some of those limitations involved physical pain.
For clarity, I'm talking about being "comfortable with myself", in a self-acceptance sense, not about physical pain (or even psychological pain) related to aspects of the situation. Maybe you are, too . . . .3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
I hate this type of logic because it can be used to discount anybody's struggle or problem with anything. "Oh you think you have X bad? Well this person over here has it worse." It's not a struggle competition. Everyone's own circumstances are unique, and they don't require anyone else's validation to feel okay about having difficulty with them.
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Voyager408 wrote: »First of all I agree that you have to be able to accept yourself as you are. If you don't, you may lose the weight but still won't be happy with your body. That said I don't agree with people knowingly making themselves fat. But before you start the fat shaming, which never works, you should consider whether an overweight person has an underlying medical condition. Though I've heard people mention underactive thyroid as an acceptable reason for being overweight but what about arthritis? If you can't move and have to rely on convenience food like I do during a flare up with my RA, of course you're going to put on weight. That is just one possibility but I have read a news article about five years ago that about half of people who are overweight/obese have an undiagnosed health condition causing the weight gain. So before having a go at a fat person, encourage them to visit their doctor first to rule out any health problems. There are many reasons a person might be fat and not all of them physical.
In short, you need to be body positive in order to lose weight otherwise nothing will change. In short there should be more help for overweight people to fight the reason that they are fat, be that a health condition or an unhealthy connection to food.
This is probably a semantic thing but if being "body positive" means being comfortable and happy with your body in its current state then I would argue that actually you can't be body positive if you are going to lose weight because the first thing that needs to happen is you need to decide that you are not satisfied with your body in its current state.
The only times in my life where I lost weight successfully were the times where I decided I wasn't happy with my body and I wanted to change it. Is that body positivity?
It's still probably semantics, but it totally makes sense to me to be comfortable and happy with my body, but still want to change it. Just because something, pretty much anything, is fine at the point where it is now, doesn't mean it can't be improved, or make that improvement not worth pursuing.
I was pretty contented in my fat body: It could do cool stuff, and helped me move through the world doing interesting things that would've been darned difficult to do without it. But it became obvious to me that it needed to be healthier, and that weight loss was the necessary action to take. Now I'm happy in my healthy-weight body, but there are still things I'd like to improve about how it functions, such as some aspects of strength and athletic performance.
It's a process, and I'm always at a point in the process, with opportunities for improvement. It doesn't require unhappiness with the current state, necessarily, for me. YMMV, obviously.
My mileage definitely varied. There was no being comfortable in my body when I was at full weight. Appearance and external treatment aside how much you carry and how you carry it can create a whole host of limitations. Some of those limitations involved physical pain.
For clarity, I'm talking about being comfortable with myself", in a self-acceptance sense, not about physical pain (or even psychological pain) related to aspects of the situation. Maybe you are, too . . . .
From 15 on I have been quite self-assured and quite self-accepting. I have always understood that accepting myself or accepting others never had to mean I had to like everything about me or them. There will always be things I don't like and those drive me towards improvement.2 -
nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
I think it really depends on what's going on with the person physically and mentally as well as the resources they have. Those resources include medical resources, time, transportation, various support systems, money, and community resources/resources that are dependent on where they live. I know multiple people with disabilities and other medical conditions that may not/don't fall in the "disability" category who exercise at very high levels (at least one of whom does so at an international level), but everyone is different and every situation is different.
Of course there are also people who just don't know how to find a sport or activity that works for them both in terms of what they enjoy as well as things that may need to be altered to allow them to actually take do the activity or sport. For better or worse, that football example from above just isn't going to be what most people want to do because most people globally don't play or likely want to play American football - shocking I know
Mind you when my depression is at its worse, getting out of bed to do anything other than use the bathroom isn't really possible. Yes, I will lose weight when I'm that depressed because getting out of bed to eat doesn't happen without massive amounts of struggle and I have to both remind myself and force myself to eat. It's been a while since it's been that bad, but that isn't exactly uncommon in terms of people who have depression (among other mental illnesses).4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
I hate this type of logic because it can be used to discount anybody's struggle or problem with anything. "Oh you think you have X bad? Well this person over here has it worse." It's not a struggle competition. Everyone's own circumstances are unique, and they don't require anyone else's validation to feel okay about having difficulty with them.
Exactly. There will always be someone who has it worse and why should that work to invalidate what the person who "has it better" is going through? I remember being in DBT for way to long and saying in response to the "comparison" skill, "do you think I don't read the news?". While I didn't feel like I had a lot of agency and certainly didn't know how to use what agency I did have, that was one sliver that I held onto for dear life.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
I hate this type of logic because it can be used to discount anybody's struggle or problem with anything. "Oh you think you have X bad? Well this person over here has it worse." It's not a struggle competition. Everyone's own circumstances are unique, and they don't require anyone else's validation to feel okay about having difficulty with them.
Agreed. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. I like to say that a person who loses a foot may be less worse off than a person who loses a leg but that does not mean the foot will regrow. Going through a struggle is never invalidated by the fact it could be worse. The only thing that makes it worse is by willfully choosing not to live your best life despite the struggle if the situation cannot be improved.3 -
the more accepting of my body, the more i want the best for my body. so as i accepted my body image, the more i wanted to do right by eat and getting to a more ideal weight and took better care of it7
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Feel free to correct me if you think this is wrong but to me when people say they need to be "body positive" what they really mean is that they need to be able to be effective at what they put their mind to and what they have determined is that if they are unhappy about their body it is so distracting as to make them ineffective. That is a difficult situation to be in for sure, but it certainly is not true that anyone who is dissatisfied by their body is paralyzed by this.
There have been times I looked at my body and decided I didn't like what I saw and wanted to change it and I found that rather motivating not demotivating because to me my body is just a thing that carries me around like a car and if I want an upgrade I just need to put the work in. If I decided one day that my car was an unattractive thing and that bothered me enough to want to change it then I'd take the time to put money aside with the intent of buying a new car...the idea that my car was ugly wouldn't paralyze me into inaction. I don't really have a lot of emotion associated with the idea that I am dissatisfied with my body any more than I'd have being dissatisfied with my car. Right now I'm not very satisfied with my body but its not a high priority for me and thats fine...doesn't bother me. By my analogy it'd be like if I didn't think my car was that great but I didn't really think buying a new car was something I wanted to be doing right now so I just kept my old car realizing that it was my choice to do so and I could change my mind later if I wanted to.
I get and accept that for some people the state of their body is a very emotional issue for them that has associated anxieties that can ruin their effectiveness and cause them to become demotivated to even try. I don't really have solutions for that, that is hard, but making broad statements about how it is not possible to lose weight if you aren't body positive...well, like most broadly made statements its pretty easy to show why that isn't true.
I think the difference is this: you could want to buy a new car that you like and find more desirable, without finding your current car unattractive. This is probably want people who want body positivity and weight loss want to achieve: they're comfortable in their new car, but they are saving for the newer model they want too.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
I hate this type of logic because it can be used to discount anybody's struggle or problem with anything. "Oh you think you have X bad? Well this person over here has it worse." It's not a struggle competition. Everyone's own circumstances are unique, and they don't require anyone else's validation to feel okay about having difficulty with them.
The point wasn't to discount anybody's struggle. Point was if someone really wants to exercise, they can probably find their own way if they have the desire.
3 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Feel free to correct me if you think this is wrong but to me when people say they need to be "body positive" what they really mean is that they need to be able to be effective at what they put their mind to and what they have determined is that if they are unhappy about their body it is so distracting as to make them ineffective. That is a difficult situation to be in for sure, but it certainly is not true that anyone who is dissatisfied by their body is paralyzed by this.
There have been times I looked at my body and decided I didn't like what I saw and wanted to change it and I found that rather motivating not demotivating because to me my body is just a thing that carries me around like a car and if I want an upgrade I just need to put the work in. If I decided one day that my car was an unattractive thing and that bothered me enough to want to change it then I'd take the time to put money aside with the intent of buying a new car...the idea that my car was ugly wouldn't paralyze me into inaction. I don't really have a lot of emotion associated with the idea that I am dissatisfied with my body any more than I'd have being dissatisfied with my car. Right now I'm not very satisfied with my body but its not a high priority for me and thats fine...doesn't bother me. By my analogy it'd be like if I didn't think my car was that great but I didn't really think buying a new car was something I wanted to be doing right now so I just kept my old car realizing that it was my choice to do so and I could change my mind later if I wanted to.
I get and accept that for some people the state of their body is a very emotional issue for them that has associated anxieties that can ruin their effectiveness and cause them to become demotivated to even try. I don't really have solutions for that, that is hard, but making broad statements about how it is not possible to lose weight if you aren't body positive...well, like most broadly made statements its pretty easy to show why that isn't true.
I think the difference is this: you could want to buy a new car that you like and find more desirable, without finding your current car unattractive. This is probably want people who want body positivity and weight loss want to achieve: they're comfortable in their new car, but they are saving for the newer model they want too.
Image is not really a motivating or demotivating issue for me. I believe that day is coming but I am mostly still focused on the features that a new car will give me. My old car did 0 to 60 never. The one I have now can get there but should be measured with an hourglass not a stopwatch. I am sure I can do better.
We are all probably saying the same thing though and the pointer on the balance is going to land in different places for different people. Regardless of the source of the discontentment if it is too much I am not patient enough and if it is too little I will be complacent.
1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
Amen. People dont realize how much energy one can burn just doing simple things. Parking further away from work. Doing dishes by hand. Walking on breaks. Small things add up big. Cant run, walk. Cant walk , recline bike. Ect....3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
I hate this type of logic because it can be used to discount anybody's struggle or problem with anything. "Oh you think you have X bad? Well this person over here has it worse." It's not a struggle competition. Everyone's own circumstances are unique, and they don't require anyone else's validation to feel okay about having difficulty with them.
The point wasn't to discount anybody's struggle. Point was if someone really wants to exercise, they can probably find their own way if they have the desire.
To counter this, I think part of the point that @MikePTY and I were making is that saying this like, "look at this person who doesn't have legs and is able to play American football" in response to someone who is having trouble exercising/figuring out how to be more active or the idea that there are people in have trouble doing those things can be invalidating regardless of whether or not you meant it to be (sorry for the run-on sentence). I don't necessarily think that there was any malintent to your post, but a lack of malintent doesn't mean that what was said wasn't, in this case, invalidating. Yes it sucks that language works like that, but it's part of being a human that uses language.6 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
I hate this type of logic because it can be used to discount anybody's struggle or problem with anything. "Oh you think you have X bad? Well this person over here has it worse." It's not a struggle competition. Everyone's own circumstances are unique, and they don't require anyone else's validation to feel okay about having difficulty with them.
The point wasn't to discount anybody's struggle. Point was if someone really wants to exercise, they can probably find their own way if they have the desire.
Moments like this bring up challenges to our perception. You can either look at this and be inspired, experience dissonance, or variations in between. It doesn't change reality, but it may shatter subjective and relative perception.1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Feel free to correct me if you think this is wrong but to me when people say they need to be "body positive" what they really mean is that they need to be able to be effective at what they put their mind to and what they have determined is that if they are unhappy about their body it is so distracting as to make them ineffective. That is a difficult situation to be in for sure, but it certainly is not true that anyone who is dissatisfied by their body is paralyzed by this.
There have been times I looked at my body and decided I didn't like what I saw and wanted to change it and I found that rather motivating not demotivating because to me my body is just a thing that carries me around like a car and if I want an upgrade I just need to put the work in. If I decided one day that my car was an unattractive thing and that bothered me enough to want to change it then I'd take the time to put money aside with the intent of buying a new car...the idea that my car was ugly wouldn't paralyze me into inaction. I don't really have a lot of emotion associated with the idea that I am dissatisfied with my body any more than I'd have being dissatisfied with my car. Right now I'm not very satisfied with my body but its not a high priority for me and that's fine...doesn't bother me. By my analogy it'd be like if I didn't think my car was that great but I didn't really think buying a new car was something I wanted to be doing right now so I just kept my old car realizing that it was my choice to do so and I could change my mind later if I wanted to.
I get and accept that for some people the state of their body is a very emotional issue for them that has associated anxieties that can ruin their effectiveness and cause them to become demotivated to even try. I don't really have solutions for that, that is hard, but making broad statements about how it is not possible to lose weight if you aren't body positive...well, like most broadly made statements its pretty easy to show why that isn't true.
I think the difference is this: you could want to buy a new car that you like and find more desirable, without finding your current car unattractive. This is probably want people who want body positivity and weight loss want to achieve: they're comfortable in their new car, but they are saving for the newer model they want too.
During this process it is worth noting that the owner would want to sell the current car and therefore keep it in the best condition for sale - build to purpose, vacuum, maintain, wash & wax, etc. In essence show some love. If I'm looking to purchase said car and I see that it wasn't maintained, full of trash, covered with dirt, I'm going to question exactly how "positive" the owner was as the objective evidence stands in contradiction to the claim.
In staying with the car analogy if the owner poured a lot of time and energy into less than honorable dealers & servicers this isn't just frustrating - it leads one to desperation and insanity.
To the point of the OP if we love something we put effort into it, which is why people who become aware of the desire or need to change behavior are stuck in a moment of dissonance. This is a phenomenal emotional moment. Any reasonable person would meet this with understanding and offer help, which is why people stuck in this moment are met with a massive positive reinforcement to help and support.
I also have to remember what a microcosm we have here within MFP. Even within the site many still believe it's something other than CICO and stuck in another matter of dissonance.1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Feel free to correct me if you think this is wrong but to me when people say they need to be "body positive" what they really mean is that they need to be able to be effective at what they put their mind to and what they have determined is that if they are unhappy about their body it is so distracting as to make them ineffective. That is a difficult situation to be in for sure, but it certainly is not true that anyone who is dissatisfied by their body is paralyzed by this.
There have been times I looked at my body and decided I didn't like what I saw and wanted to change it and I found that rather motivating not demotivating because to me my body is just a thing that carries me around like a car and if I want an upgrade I just need to put the work in. If I decided one day that my car was an unattractive thing and that bothered me enough to want to change it then I'd take the time to put money aside with the intent of buying a new car...the idea that my car was ugly wouldn't paralyze me into inaction. I don't really have a lot of emotion associated with the idea that I am dissatisfied with my body any more than I'd have being dissatisfied with my car. Right now I'm not very satisfied with my body but its not a high priority for me and that's fine...doesn't bother me. By my analogy it'd be like if I didn't think my car was that great but I didn't really think buying a new car was something I wanted to be doing right now so I just kept my old car realizing that it was my choice to do so and I could change my mind later if I wanted to.
I get and accept that for some people the state of their body is a very emotional issue for them that has associated anxieties that can ruin their effectiveness and cause them to become demotivated to even try. I don't really have solutions for that, that is hard, but making broad statements about how it is not possible to lose weight if you aren't body positive...well, like most broadly made statements its pretty easy to show why that isn't true.
I think the difference is this: you could want to buy a new car that you like and find more desirable, without finding your current car unattractive. This is probably want people who want body positivity and weight loss want to achieve: they're comfortable in their new car, but they are saving for the newer model they want too.
During this process it is worth noting that the owner would want to sell the current car and therefore keep it in the best condition for sale - build to purpose, vacuum, maintain, wash & wax, etc. In essence show some love. If I'm looking to purchase said car and I see that it wasn't maintained, full of trash, covered with dirt, I'm going to question exactly how "positive" the owner was as the objective evidence stands in contradiction to the claim.
In staying with the car analogy if the owner poured a lot of time and energy into less than honorable dealers & servicers this isn't just frustrating - it leads one to desperation and insanity.
To the point of the OP if we love something we put effort into it, which is why people who become aware of the desire or need to change behavior are stuck in a moment of dissonance. This is a phenomenal emotional moment. Any reasonable person would meet this with understanding and offer help, which is why people stuck in this moment are met with a massive positive reinforcement to help and support.
I also have to remember what a microcosm we have here within MFP. Even within the site many still believe it's something other than CICO and stuck in another matter of dissonance.
True, if you had the MSRP for a car in front of you but every dealer you went to tried to add a bunch of odd fees, some of which even contradicted each other - "I have to charge you the compact car tax" while someone else "hast to charge you the full size warranty fee" - all while seeing the dealerships manage to sell cars, this must work on some level - you eventually would feel unwilling to bother with trying to get a new car. In that sense all the contradictory dietary gurus ruin the ability to lose weight for people, particularly as there are plenty of them that are in a good shape, yet saying contradictory things.1
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