Plant based protein VS meat based protein
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »sarah1026652019 wrote: »I brought this up to my husband and I told him the days we eat veggie meals I feel like I have more energy I work out harder I literally exceed my goals. And I can tell the difference when we eat chicken fish pro beef etc.
He laughed and said at work today he actually watched a Netflix documentary called “Game Changers” and it talked about this same thing in elite athletes NFL, strongest man, UFC, and also high demand physical jobs such as firefighting.
I think when I get the time maybe this weekend I will try and watch it. I guess they talk scientifically about the plant and meat outcome long term and short term in a body and blood circulation. With test done on the athletes.
I’m interested to see where I stand. Because I LOVE meat I am born and raised In Colorado! We love beef and any meat!!
But he said in the documentary that it mentioned even one serving of eggs chicken or lean protein clouded the fat in the blood.
Idk I am very interested to watch this and learn a little more
He also said there was a “strongest man” that is vegetarian on there and he said he wanted to be strong as an ox, and someone laughed and said while u eat ur salad? And he replied well what do ox eat?
Hmmm food for thought
I am going to go look deeper into this!!!
Thanks for all the great views and education!!!!
Think critically about any claim suggesting athletes perform better on fully plant-based diets. High level athletes have professional trainers (including dietitians) who keep up with all the sound scientific research, and will do nearly anything to squeeze out a 0.05% advantage. If a fully plant-based diet were actually proven to be more effective, every high level athlete would be fully plant-based . . . or we have to assume most of them are kinda stupid, or not paying attention.
Can athletes perform well on a fully plant based diet? I'm sure they can, because some do. Is it persuasively, objectively proven to be a better diet on which to perform? Doesn't seem likely, outside of advocacy propaganda "documentaries".
And I say that as a long term (45+ year) vegetarian who has (in the past) trained and competed athletically.
This cannot be emphasized enough. Most athletes are going to have a fairly varied diet, and most with good amounts of meat. Don't let the exception drive the conversation. There is a reason most bodybuilders and powerlifters eat meat. From a muscle protein synthesis standpoint, meat > plants.
Why wouldn't the reason that most bodybuilders and powerlifters eat meat be the same reason that most of the people in the societies they live in eat meat? (Tradition/custom/expectation that a meal is built around meat, unexamined assumptions about the need for animal protein for good health, etc.) Given the many completely insupportable arguments about nutrition and even exercise that I have heard from bodybuilders and lifters, I'm not inclined to accept that particular appeal to authority. There's a reason the term broscience came into being.
Sure, most bodybuilders or young lifters probably started with eating meat because that is what they knew, but as they probably got into the sport, its more likely they are looking for any advantage possible. And meats has higher levels of leucine which is a primary component for stimulating muscle protein synthesis.2 -
biggiwig4483 wrote: »i would say - don’t seek that kind of info on a forum of regular people. we mostly don’t know what the hell were talking about. i just watched game changers and if i think about the sources and potential motivations behind the research, i tend to think it’s at least a legit theory. it’s pro-vegan. protein is protein. schwarzenegger, jackie chan, james cameron. kinda heavy hitters. worth watching. especially the blood and the erection tests!
I watched that too. I was shocked about the blood samples. The fat of the meat eaters was so cloudy. Apparently the blood is not floating so well.
I lnow 2 meat eaters who had a stroke and a heart attack. Just got me thinking s lot.
I'm not really following your last statement. I personally know literally dozens of meat eaters who haven't had a stroke or a heart attack. Do you think vegetarians don't have heart attacks or strokes?7 -
biggiwig4483 wrote: »i would say - don’t seek that kind of info on a forum of regular people. we mostly don’t know what the hell were talking about. i just watched game changers and if i think about the sources and potential motivations behind the research, i tend to think it’s at least a legit theory. it’s pro-vegan. protein is protein. schwarzenegger, jackie chan, james cameron. kinda heavy hitters. worth watching. especially the blood and the erection tests!
I watched that too. I was shocked about the blood samples. The fat of the meat eaters was so cloudy. Apparently the blood is not floating so well.
I lnow 2 meat eaters who had a stroke and a heart attack. Just got me thinking s lot.
Were those meat eaters also overweight and inactive?
My whole family are heavy meat eaters and my family often lives to upper 90 or low 100s.
There are plenty of vegans who have heart attacks too. Cherry picking data is never a good thing.5 -
i would say - don’t seek that kind of info on a forum of regular people. we mostly don’t know what the hell were talking about. i just watched game changers and if i think about the sources and potential motivations behind the research, i tend to think it’s at least a legit theory. it’s pro-vegan. protein is protein. schwarzenegger, jackie chan, james cameron. kinda heavy hitters. worth watching. especially the blood and the erection tests!
I haven't seen Game Changers. Does Schwarzenegger say this would have been easier had he been vegan at the time?
I am very supportive of ethical vegans, and reducing meat consumption to reduce environmental impact, but I'm against distortion of science.7 -
Let's not forget that Arnold wasn't exactly natural.10
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Of course there are vegans who had strokes or heart attacks. When did I say they don’t exist??? I just don’t know anyone personally.0
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I'm not vegan, but I do have kidney stones, and found out that they can be caused by sugar, chocolate (OMG NOOOOO) and... by meat! They say to lean more on legumes to get your protein. And by combining plant based proteins you can get complete proteins similar to meat. Not saying I'm gonna go there, but that's what I've been told by doctors.0
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I recently watched a documentary on Netflix, The Game Changer. It showcases elite athletes, scientists, etc. who dig deeper into this topic: Plant Based Protein vs Animal Protein. The narrator is an ultimate fighter and uncovers the optimal diet for human performance.0
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I recently watched a documentary on Netflix, The Game Changer. It showcases elite athletes, scientists, etc. who dig deeper into this topic: Plant Based Protein vs Animal Protein. The narrator is an ultimate fighter and uncovers the optimal diet for human performance.
You realize that documentaries on Netflix are not the best place to find accurate unbiased information right? Try PubMed with actual studies and not propaganda.6 -
I recently watched a documentary on Netflix, The Game Changer. It showcases elite athletes, scientists, etc. who dig deeper into this topic: Plant Based Protein vs Animal Protein. The narrator is an ultimate fighter and uncovers the optimal diet for human performance.
The narrator uncovers what he considers the optimal diet. Other elite athletes and scientists disagree with him, but he had no responsibility to show that, making his opinion seem more convincing.6 -
Your welcome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpKaq8TLkyw 1 -
eating like an ox doesn't make you an ox or give you the metabolism of an ox.sarah1026652019 wrote: »
He also said there was a “strongest man” that is vegetarian on there and he said he wanted to be strong as an ox, and someone laughed and said while u eat ur salad? And he replied well what do ox eat?
Hmmm food for thought
I am going to go look deeper into this!!!
Thanks for all the great views and education!!!!
3 -
sarah1026652019 wrote: »I brought this up to my husband and I told him the days we eat veggie meals I feel like I have more energy I work out harder I literally exceed my goals. And I can tell the difference when we eat chicken fish pro beef etc.
He laughed and said at work today he actually watched a Netflix documentary called “Game Changers” and it talked about this same thing in elite athletes NFL, strongest man, UFC, and also high demand physical jobs such as firefighting.
I think when I get the time maybe this weekend I will try and watch it. I guess they talk scientifically about the plant and meat outcome long term and short term in a body and blood circulation. With test done on the athletes.
I’m interested to see where I stand. Because I LOVE meat I am born and raised In Colorado! We love beef and any meat!!
But he said in the documentary that it mentioned even one serving of eggs chicken or lean protein clouded the fat in the blood.
Idk I am very interested to watch this and learn a little more
He also said there was a “strongest man” that is vegetarian on there and he said he wanted to be strong as an ox, and someone laughed and said while u eat ur salad? And he replied well what do ox eat?
Hmmm food for thought
I am going to go look deeper into this!!!
Thanks for all the great views and education!!!!
Think critically about any claim suggesting athletes perform better on fully plant-based diets.
but it's so much easier just to believe whatever the most recent documentary I watched told me4 -
extra_medium wrote: »sarah1026652019 wrote: »I brought this up to my husband and I told him the days we eat veggie meals I feel like I have more energy I work out harder I literally exceed my goals. And I can tell the difference when we eat chicken fish pro beef etc.
He laughed and said at work today he actually watched a Netflix documentary called “Game Changers” and it talked about this same thing in elite athletes NFL, strongest man, UFC, and also high demand physical jobs such as firefighting.
I think when I get the time maybe this weekend I will try and watch it. I guess they talk scientifically about the plant and meat outcome long term and short term in a body and blood circulation. With test done on the athletes.
I’m interested to see where I stand. Because I LOVE meat I am born and raised In Colorado! We love beef and any meat!!
But he said in the documentary that it mentioned even one serving of eggs chicken or lean protein clouded the fat in the blood.
Idk I am very interested to watch this and learn a little more
He also said there was a “strongest man” that is vegetarian on there and he said he wanted to be strong as an ox, and someone laughed and said while u eat ur salad? And he replied well what do ox eat?
Hmmm food for thought
I am going to go look deeper into this!!!
Thanks for all the great views and education!!!!
Think critically about any claim suggesting athletes perform better on fully plant-based diets.
but it's so much easier just to believe whatever the most recent documentary I watched told me
Ironically, its the same argument from some keto'ers. There is one person who has excelled and that leads people to believe its optimal. But if you look at 100 randomized elite athletes, its probably 1-2% vs the rest who eat a varied diet to include meat.1 -
extra_medium wrote: »sarah1026652019 wrote: »I brought this up to my husband and I told him the days we eat veggie meals I feel like I have more energy I work out harder I literally exceed my goals. And I can tell the difference when we eat chicken fish pro beef etc.
He laughed and said at work today he actually watched a Netflix documentary called “Game Changers” and it talked about this same thing in elite athletes NFL, strongest man, UFC, and also high demand physical jobs such as firefighting.
I think when I get the time maybe this weekend I will try and watch it. I guess they talk scientifically about the plant and meat outcome long term and short term in a body and blood circulation. With test done on the athletes.
I’m interested to see where I stand. Because I LOVE meat I am born and raised In Colorado! We love beef and any meat!!
But he said in the documentary that it mentioned even one serving of eggs chicken or lean protein clouded the fat in the blood.
Idk I am very interested to watch this and learn a little more
He also said there was a “strongest man” that is vegetarian on there and he said he wanted to be strong as an ox, and someone laughed and said while u eat ur salad? And he replied well what do ox eat?
Hmmm food for thought
I am going to go look deeper into this!!!
Thanks for all the great views and education!!!!
Think critically about any claim suggesting athletes perform better on fully plant-based diets.
but it's so much easier just to believe whatever the most recent documentary I watched told me
Ironically, its the same argument from some keto'ers. There is one person who has excelled and that leads people to believe its optimal. But if you look at 100 randomized elite athletes, its probably 1-2% vs the rest who eat a varied diet to include meat.
So, two to four times as common for an elite athlete to have a fully plant-based diet than it is for someone in the general population to have a fully plant-based diet (if we're talking about the U.S.)?
ETA: I don't know if your 1-2% number is correct. I suspect you don't either, from your phrasing ("it's probably 1-2% ...").
But no matter what the correct number is, it tells us absolutely nothing about whether a vegan diet correlates with elite athleticism unless we compare it to the rate of veganism in the general population.1 -
I don't know much about diet (or I don't think I do), but I have been on various ones in my lifetime for different reasons (ethical, health, trendy, getting caught in pseudo-science, doctor's recommendations, marketing etc). What I've ultimately learned is to trust in is whatever seems to make my body feel most energized and stronger. Also, I feel that as my body changes, my needs change. I was vegetarian for about 7 years but returned to eating meat. From what I recall, when I attempted to eat meat after being vegetarian (and then vegan for a year) is that when I tried to eat meat, I had trouble digesting it initially... not sure if that was a psychological thing or actual loss of enzymes over time (my doctor suggested enzyme supplements until I could get back on track)... but either way, I wanted to make sure I could still digest meat easily again. When I went back to an omnivore diet, my energy and vitality was much better. I find that for myself, having an overall high meat/fish protein diet works best. That may change again later or go up and down in amounts, but I tend to sleep better, feel stronger, and more grounded. If I want to feel lighter, I'll have plant protein at a given time. That's just what works for me. But everyone's constitution and goals are so different, and it changes all the time... I don't think there's one size that fits all, that's for sure.
And yeah, documentaries (and even studies) can push their own agendas... I find it best to look at different arguments and critique study methods too... and look at academic studies in different countries/cultures also, where foods that we may not eat often in Euro-Western countries may be more emphasized according to other outlooks. I find it hard to weed between scientific clinical studies (which is also being updated regularly), making sure they are peer reviewed, vs. bro science, pseudo-science, trends and marketing for sales...1 -
For those of you touting the documentary 'Game Changer' - I urge you to be more critical of the media you are consuming. This documentary has been found by evidence based registered dietitians to have cherry picked data and to have distorted scientific evidence to suit its agenda. I say this as both an academic/researcher and as someone who eats a 95% vegetarian diet. These documentaries can be an OK starting point, but it is worth following up the research yourself in order to make an informed decision.12
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »extra_medium wrote: »sarah1026652019 wrote: »I brought this up to my husband and I told him the days we eat veggie meals I feel like I have more energy I work out harder I literally exceed my goals. And I can tell the difference when we eat chicken fish pro beef etc.
He laughed and said at work today he actually watched a Netflix documentary called “Game Changers” and it talked about this same thing in elite athletes NFL, strongest man, UFC, and also high demand physical jobs such as firefighting.
I think when I get the time maybe this weekend I will try and watch it. I guess they talk scientifically about the plant and meat outcome long term and short term in a body and blood circulation. With test done on the athletes.
I’m interested to see where I stand. Because I LOVE meat I am born and raised In Colorado! We love beef and any meat!!
But he said in the documentary that it mentioned even one serving of eggs chicken or lean protein clouded the fat in the blood.
Idk I am very interested to watch this and learn a little more
He also said there was a “strongest man” that is vegetarian on there and he said he wanted to be strong as an ox, and someone laughed and said while u eat ur salad? And he replied well what do ox eat?
Hmmm food for thought
I am going to go look deeper into this!!!
Thanks for all the great views and education!!!!
Think critically about any claim suggesting athletes perform better on fully plant-based diets.
but it's so much easier just to believe whatever the most recent documentary I watched told me
Ironically, its the same argument from some keto'ers. There is one person who has excelled and that leads people to believe its optimal. But if you look at 100 randomized elite athletes, its probably 1-2% vs the rest who eat a varied diet to include meat.
So, two to four times as common for an elite athlete to have a fully plant-based diet than it is for someone in the general population to have a fully plant-based diet (if we're talking about the U.S.)?
ETA: I don't know if your 1-2% number is correct. I suspect you don't either, from your phrasing ("it's probably 1-2% ...").
But no matter what the correct number is, it tells us absolutely nothing about whether a vegan diet correlates with elite athleticism unless we compare it to the rate of veganism in the general population.
Your comparison point would be within the elite athlete populous (total elite athletes vs those who are plant based). And even then, you have to understand how long those individuals have been plant based. What you will find in many circles, is often, those elite individuals got there using another diet.
Diet's have been researched for decades as a means to improve athletic performance. If plant based had even the slightest advantage, it would be no secret by now.6 -
When I read the initial post in this thread my guess was that "efficient" was going to be about the environment (obviously I was waaay off). I'm not a vegan, but there is no argument about what sources of protein are more efficient environmentally.3
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