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Why ask why?
allother94
Posts: 588 Member
in Debate Club
I’ve been posting on here for a while and have noticed something that happens in every thread. I will start the thread by asking a simple question like “what is considered an an above average bench press?”. Without fail, the responses will mostly be “it depends on your goals.” No it doesn’t. I have no goals. All I have are questions. Once I have the answers to my questions, then I will make my goals...
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Those of us who have been answering questions for a while usually find that the best way to give helpful and relevant advice is not to simply just give a cookie cutter answer, but rather to understand the motivation behind the post. Because that usually reveals what the real question is, which helps guide what the proper answer should be.
This board is most effectively used when people can understand the questioners motivation and perhaps give them insight to something they didn't even think to ask, but is beneficial to them. I have seen this happen more times than I can count.
Because if you truly don't want personalization and a more detailed conversation, you are better off just googling "what is an average bench press" and you will get as good an answer as anywhere else.33 -
The problem with wanting information like that without qualification is that life is contextual.
What is an above average bench press? For whom? Male or female? A 12 year old, a 20 year old, an 80 year old? Flat, incline, or decline press?
If you want a straight, no qualification, no advice included answer you can ask Google. I googled "average bench press" and here was the answer: "Average Bench Press. As of 2017, the most recent data from the Center's for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Health Statistics puts the average American woman's weight at 170.5 pounds, while the average male clocks in at 197.8 pounds."
The problem with asking that kind of question on here is that most posters have some intent behind the question, and people who answer want to be sure that others reading that post understand the context of their response.14 -
If you want a professional answer, ask a professional. If you want a bunch of unqualified opinions, ask a chat room.16
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Mostly because that is a tough question to answer. Above average with respect to who/what? Someone who doesn't work out? All individuals that are the same age, weight, gender?
People are individuals with different strengths. A general question about what is considered an above average bench press will depend on so much.
I bench about 300 lbs. max and usually work out with about 225 for sets of 10 reps. In my little gym at work, frequented by relative newcomers, I am the strongest guy there. The other gym I go to, which is much larger..I am rarely the strongest guy in the gym at any given time.
So what I bench is a lot for a newbie, average for someone with a similar frame and experience with lifting, really low for people who have a genetic predisposition to be strong and hit the gym a lot, and extremely low for guys in power lifting or strong man competitions.
if your goal is to be a world strongman competitor and you stated that, you would get an answer. Ditto if you are a 130lb female...similar profiles would be able to chime in and let you know what they experience and have seen.
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riffraff2112 wrote: »Mostly because that is a tough question to answer. Above average with respect to who/what? Someone who doesn't work out? All individuals that are the same age, weight, gender?
Asking for additional detail in order to answer the question is perfectly fine. However, what my personal goals are shouldn’t change the answer. I’m not complaining about it because it is sometimes helpful. I just find it odd.1 -
Those of us who have been answering questions for a while usually find that the best way to give helpful and relevant advice is not to simply just give a cookie cutter answer, but rather to understand the motivation behind the post. Because that usually reveals what the real question is, which helps guide what the proper answer should be.
I thought this was the reasoning behind it. It’s just funny to me that I’m constantly being treated as if I don’t know what my real question is. I know what my question is.1 -
Because if you truly don't want personalization and a more detailed conversation, you are better off just googling "what is an average bench press" and you will get as good an answer as anywhere else.
You would be amazed what google doesn’t know. Of course, this was a simple example and google could probably handle it.0 -
allother94 wrote: »I’ve been posting on here for a while and have noticed something that happens in every thread. I will start the thread by asking a simple question like “what is considered an an above average bench press?”. Without fail, the responses will mostly be “it depends on your goals.” No it doesn’t. I have no goals. All I have are questions. Once I have the answers to my questions, then I will make my goals...
Ok. I would say anything that is 125% of bodyweight is above average but not hardcore lifter good.
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allother94 wrote: »Those of us who have been answering questions for a while usually find that the best way to give helpful and relevant advice is not to simply just give a cookie cutter answer, but rather to understand the motivation behind the post. Because that usually reveals what the real question is, which helps guide what the proper answer should be.
I thought this was the reasoning behind it. It’s just funny to me that I’m constantly being treated as if I don’t know what my real question is. I know what my question is.
What was the question again? 🤔1 -
The problem with wanting information like that without qualification is that life is contextual.
What is an above average bench press? For whom? Male or female? A 12 year old, a 20 year old, an 80 year old? Flat, incline, or decline press?
.
Agree that asking for more detail to get a good answer is reasonable. I just think it is funny that people think that what my goals are have any bearing on the answer. I have no goals. Just doing some research.0 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »If you want a professional answer, ask a professional. If you want a bunch of unqualified opinions, ask a chat room.
This is another good one. Ever ask a question about minor pains or injuries? Within 3 posts, someone will call you a fool for asking a bunch of random strangers for medical advice instead of a doctor. Of course I will ask a doctor. Of course I’m not getting all my medical advice from the MyFitnessPal chat room.
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jhanleybrown wrote: »allother94 wrote: »I’ve been posting on here for a while and have noticed something that happens in every thread. I will start the thread by asking a simple question like “what is considered an an above average bench press?”. Without fail, the responses will mostly be “it depends on your goals.” No it doesn’t. I have no goals. All I have are questions. Once I have the answers to my questions, then I will make my goals...
Ok. I would say anything that is 125% of bodyweight is above average but not hardcore lifter good.
Thanks, but that was just an example. I don’t have a question. I’m just pointing out some patterns I have seen when asking questions. This is a good example of a good answer. And you didn’t ask me what my goals are before answering.1 -
psychod787 wrote: »allother94 wrote: »Those of us who have been answering questions for a while usually find that the best way to give helpful and relevant advice is not to simply just give a cookie cutter answer, but rather to understand the motivation behind the post. Because that usually reveals what the real question is, which helps guide what the proper answer should be.
I thought this was the reasoning behind it. It’s just funny to me that I’m constantly being treated as if I don’t know what my real question is. I know what my question is.
What was the question again? 🤔
That depends. What are your goals?4 -
allother94 wrote: »Because if you truly don't want personalization and a more detailed conversation, you are better off just googling "what is an average bench press" and you will get as good an answer as anywhere else.
You would be amazed what google doesn’t know. Of course, this was a simple example and google could probably handle it.
I'm pretty sure the person you are responding to is well aware what Google doesn't know, and is merely pointing out that the value of an answer when you don't want to give any context to the people answering is no better than than the answer Google will give you based on the most popular answer (most clicked) when other people asked that same question.
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allother94 wrote: »jhanleybrown wrote: »allother94 wrote: »I’ve been posting on here for a while and have noticed something that happens in every thread. I will start the thread by asking a simple question like “what is considered an an above average bench press?”. Without fail, the responses will mostly be “it depends on your goals.” No it doesn’t. I have no goals. All I have are questions. Once I have the answers to my questions, then I will make my goals...
Ok. I would say anything that is 125% of bodyweight is above average but not hardcore lifter good.
Thanks, but that was just an example. I don’t have a question. I’m just pointing out some patterns I have seen when asking questions. This is a good example of a good answer. And you didn’t ask me what my goals are before answering.
No, but the answer suggests that the number depends on what your goals are. It just leaves it to you to work out whether the answer is appropriate for you based on what your goals are.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »allother94 wrote: »Because if you truly don't want personalization and a more detailed conversation, you are better off just googling "what is an average bench press" and you will get as good an answer as anywhere else.
You would be amazed what google doesn’t know. Of course, this was a simple example and google could probably handle it.
I'm pretty sure the person you are responding to is well aware what Google doesn't know, and is merely pointing out that the value of an answer when you don't want to give any context to the people answering is no better than than the answer Google will give you based on the most popular answer (most clicked) when other people asked that same question.
If google doesn’t know, than any answer I get on the forum would be better than no answer at all.
The person I was talking to was suggesting that if I just wanted a basic answer, I should just google it. That doesn’t work if google doesn’t know the answer because the specific question has never been asked. That is why I ask it here.
This forum is a great place to get specific answers to specific questions. Google is a great place to get general answers to general questions. It’s often useless to have a general answer to a specific question, which is often the result of a google search.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »allother94 wrote: »jhanleybrown wrote: »allother94 wrote: »I’ve been posting on here for a while and have noticed something that happens in every thread. I will start the thread by asking a simple question like “what is considered an an above average bench press?”. Without fail, the responses will mostly be “it depends on your goals.” No it doesn’t. I have no goals. All I have are questions. Once I have the answers to my questions, then I will make my goals...
Ok. I would say anything that is 125% of bodyweight is above average but not hardcore lifter good.
Thanks, but that was just an example. I don’t have a question. I’m just pointing out some patterns I have seen when asking questions. This is a good example of a good answer. And you didn’t ask me what my goals are before answering.
No, but the answer suggests that the number depends on what your goals are. It just leaves it to you to work out whether the answer is appropriate for you based on what your goals are.
No, the answer is just the answer. The answer would be the same regardless if my goal is to be average or if my goal is to be a hardcore lifter. The answer in this example “suggests” that you add the best times of all people and divide that number by to total number of people to get the average bench press. Anything over that number is above the average.
What I do with that answer may change depending on what my goals are, but not the answer itself.
Again, not complaining, as I have benefited from the additional help. Just pointing out the fact that answers to specific questions are not dependent on personal goals.0 -
Why should anyone put more effort in answering your questions than you are willing to expend in framing them sufficiently?30
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I realize you’re claiming this is a just an example question and not a real question.
But here’s what the very first google result for that question has:
“ For a 198-pound man — a very close match for the national average — who has no experience benching whatsoever, ExRx.net places the standard at 135 pounds. That jumps up to 175 for a novice and 215 for an intermediate lifter. At the advanced level, the number is 290 pounds.
Meanwhile, the average bench press standard for an untrained woman who weighs 165 pounds is a bench of 80 pounds, or 95 for a novice. For an intermediately experienced woman of average weight, the standard is 115 pounds, or 145 pounds for an advanced lifter.”
So...
Even for this simple question that isn’t a question-the answer depends on whether you’re male, female, your level of lifting expertise and your weight (as what’s given is for someone of average weight-but the bench press weights would change depending on your body weight).
Why ask a question if you don’t want a usable answer?
For 99% or fitness questions, the proper answer depends very much on the details.
Also-in my 8 years here, I have yet to see a single question asked on MFP that hasn’t been addressed by Google.18 -
Duck_Puddle wrote: »I realize you’re claiming this is a just an example question and not a real question.
But here’s what the very first google result for that question has:
“ For a 198-pound man — a very close match for the national average — who has no experience benching whatsoever, ExRx.net places the standard at 135 pounds. That jumps up to 175 for a novice and 215 for an intermediate lifter. At the advanced level, the number is 290 pounds.
Meanwhile, the average bench press standard for an untrained woman who weighs 165 pounds is a bench of 80 pounds, or 95 for a novice. For an intermediately experienced woman of average weight, the standard is 115 pounds, or 145 pounds for an advanced lifter.”
So...
Even for this simple question that isn’t a question-the answer depends on whether you’re male, female, your level of lifting expertise and your weight (as what’s given is for someone of average weight-but the bench press weights would change depending on your body weight).
Why ask a question if you don’t want a usable answer?
For 99% or fitness questions, the proper answer depends very much on the details.
Also-in my 8 years here, I have yet to see a single question asked on MFP that hasn’t been addressed by Google.
I may have to disagree. Based on the frequency with which it gets asked, I increasingly suspect Google is incapable of telling people what to eat for breakfast
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Well, looking at your goals does change it because it is an indirect way of asking the clarifying question by implication: "what is the group you're looking to get an average of?".
Also, it happens in part because people are not here to be your encyclopedia, but to have a conversation. That you're asking it from people implies you have a similar desire.
If you aren't interested in discussing things, what makes you think anyone should care about giving you a straight answer you when you don't care about people beyond using them as information repositories?8 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »Also, it happens in part because people are not here to be your encyclopedia, but to have a conversation. That you're asking it from people implies you have a similar desire.
If you aren't interested in discussing things, what makes you think anyone should care about giving you a straight answer you when you don't care about people beyond using them as information repositories?
I care about discussing the question. I disagree that I need to formulate and decide on a goal before I ask it.
Again, I’m not complaining as I’ve benefited from it. I just think it is odd.1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »Well, looking at your goals does change it because it is an indirect way of asking the clarifying question by implication: "what is the group you're looking to get an average of?".
No. Telling you my goal of becoming an above average lifter does not give you more details to answer the question.
I’m surprised I’m getting so many people here trying to convince me I’m wrong on this. I think it’s a pretty straight forward fact that my goals have no bearing on answers to properly detailed questions.1 -
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Duck_Puddle wrote: »I realize you’re claiming this is a just an example question and not a real question.
Not claiming it is, it just is.0 -
Duck_Puddle wrote: »Why ask a question if you don’t want a usable answer?
I do want a usable answer. Google gives me a general answer to a specific question. I come here for a specific answer. I thought I explained this already...0 -
Duck_Puddle wrote: »Also-in my 8 years here, I have yet to see a single question asked on MFP that hasn’t been addressed by Google.
I find that hard to believe. If you want to test this theory, I will posted the last question I asked and would love to see you try to answer it with google only.0 -
Duck_Puddle wrote: »For 99% or fitness questions, the proper answer depends very much on the details.
Details? yes. The personal goal of the person asking the question? No1 -
IDK...I can see how the context of your goals would matter. My buddy is a competitive power lifter and fairly new to it. Relative to other power lifters he competes against right now he's about average...maybe a little below average. Relative to a body builder, he's above average. Relative to myself as just a guy who hits the weight room to be functionally strong, he blows me out of the water.5
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allother94 wrote: »Duck_Puddle wrote: »For 99% or fitness questions, the proper answer depends very much on the details.
Details? yes. The personal goal of the person asking the question? No
Then just stop asking the questions since this seems to bother you so much? I dunno what else to tell you.14
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