Are you Keto and vegan?

banshee925
banshee925 Posts: 108 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
I’m considering trying to go vegan on keto , is there any others out there on it or tried it? how has it worked out for you?
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Replies

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  • jazz5750
    jazz5750 Posts: 6 Member
    Hi! I'm vegan and I'm not doing a keto diet, nevertheless I searched for information long ago and I found this wonderful web page: https://www.ruled.me/comprehensive-guide-vegan-ketogenic-diet/

    I hope i have helped you :)
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    banshee925 wrote: »
    I use keto for medical reasons and the food plan options are vegan too so they must be compatible.

    I was watch a documentary on the health benefits of going vegan. The scientific evidence of how much better it is for strengthening, energy and the digestive system.

    Which documentary?
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  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    If weight loss is important for your medical condition then consider that success is far more important than method. Would success be more likely or less likely with a diet that is so restrictive that navigating a normal life becomes a headache? Or would success be more likely if your meal plan felt normal to you and was easy to follow?

    If you need to restrict certain foods for a medical condition I echo the other suggestion to see a registered dietitian.
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  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    banshee925 wrote: »
    Wait now stop...

    1. I am not asking for advice regarding my medical condition or it vs keto. Keto works perfectly for my medical health and medical professionals have monitored this but thank you.

    2. The question is what is your experience with being vegan while in a keto diet ?

    If that is all you want then good luck. I am not sure you will find many that have gone for 6 months or more but you may find a few.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Another good piece on The Game Changers: https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/

    The vegan nutrition site linked by Ann above is an excellent one, and here's another: https://www.theveganrd.com/

    Worth noting that although the Game Changers movie didn't focus on fat content, most of the so-called medical experts it apparently cited and relied on promote relatively low fat diets -- this includes Dean Ornish, and Caldwell Esselstyn (http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/plant-based-nutrition/),

    Hmm, so if one wanted to do Game Changers + Keto, what would a low fat + vegan + keto diet look like?
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    I am not intentionally doing this as I am 100% vegan but many of the types of foods I consume are higher in fat. I am not on a diet and I am vegan for my own personal belief system. Anyway - For vegans, the main rule for a ketogenic diet is no different from other people. Simply eat the right amount of proteins and healthy fats. There are several types of foods one can eat ranging from nuts, avocados, seeds, and coconut oil. The amount of carbs eaten must be cut down to as low as 50 grams a day which is tough, but possible. You'll need to really pay attention to your serving sizes, weights and measurements. Plan things out carefully and read all of your nutrition labels. As a vegan I'd say almost 50% of my daily nutrition is made up from carbs. Here are some meal ideas along the line of a vegan/keto diet:

    Tofu scramble with vegan cheese and avocado.
    Zucchini noodles with walnut pesto and vegan cheese.
    Vegan walnut chili with vegan cheese and sliced avocado.
    Chia pudding made with full-fat coconut milk topped with sliced almonds.
    Creamy coconut and cauliflower soup.
    Shirataki noodles with mushrooms and vegan Alfredo sauce.
    Full-fat coconut yogurt topped with nuts, seeds and unsweetened shredded coconut.
    Tofu, vegetable and coconut curry.
    Cauliflower crust pizza topped with non-starchy vegetables and vegan cheese.
    Tofu scramble with vegan cheese, mushrooms and spinach.
    Vegetable and tofu salad with avocado dressing.
    Eggplant lasagna made with vegan cheese.
    Vegan keto smoothie with full-fat coconut milk, almond butter, cocoa powder and vegan protein powder.
    Vegetable and tofu salad with avocado dressing.
    Cauliflower fried rice.

    Many vegan products, especially replacement products which I do not recommend, are extremely high in fat. Replacement products like vegan-mayo and vegan cheese are fat all day long! Mix those items up with lower carb veggies and you'll be on the right path.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,225 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Another good piece on The Game Changers: https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/

    The vegan nutrition site linked by Ann above is an excellent one, and here's another: https://www.theveganrd.com/

    Worth noting that although the Game Changers movie didn't focus on fat content, most of the so-called medical experts it apparently cited and relied on promote relatively low fat diets -- this includes Dean Ornish, and Caldwell Esselstyn (http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/plant-based-nutrition/),

    Hmm, so if one wanted to do Game Changers + Keto, what would a low fat + vegan + keto diet look like?

    I know that's a rhetorical question, but as a bit of a nutrition math geek, I'll take that seriously: It would be really tough. You'd be trying to maximize protein, but minimize carbs and fats, right?

    Even some of the lowest-carb vegan complete (even good, but not complete) protein sources have some carbs, and possibly some fats. Tofu, for example, in the brand I often buy, has 3g carbs and 4g fats per 9g protein in an 85g serving. If I got all of my protein goal from just that, that's already 33g of carbs and 44g fats, before having any actual vegetables at all. (And frankly, more than two pounds of tofu daily sounds a little disgusting. :grimace: ).

    Even spinach, which I think is one of the more keto-friendly veggies (someone else may have to help me out with this, since I don't do keto), and has some protein (not complete) has 3.6g carbs, 0 fat, and 2.9g protein per 100g (and 100g is quite a lot of raw spinach), so more carbs than protein.

    Regular legumes (beans, peas) are too high carb (black beans, for example: 23.7g carbs, though only 0.5g fats, for 8.9g of protein in 100g cooked beans). Whole nuts are too high fat (almonds, one of the more protein efficient - counting peanuts as a legume, BTW - have 6g carbs and 14g fat per 6g protein). Peanut powder, though partially defatted, has 5g carbs and 1.5g fats per 5g protein. Even nutritional yeast has 4g carbs per 5g protein (no fats ;) ).

    Though they relied on a lot of low-fat spokespeople, I didn't understand Game Changers to be especially explicitly advocating low fat eating, though (let alone low carb). I thought bringing in the low-fat spokepeople was just part of the imbalanced reporting of evidence, i.e., basically cherry-picking of studies.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    And with regard to the interest in Game Changers - Are you an athlete? Meaning, do you train like an actual athlete? If that's your goal you are taking it to a whole different level, you know that right?
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Another good piece on The Game Changers: https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/

    The vegan nutrition site linked by Ann above is an excellent one, and here's another: https://www.theveganrd.com/

    Worth noting that although the Game Changers movie didn't focus on fat content, most of the so-called medical experts it apparently cited and relied on promote relatively low fat diets -- this includes Dean Ornish, and Caldwell Esselstyn (http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/plant-based-nutrition/),

    Hmm, so if one wanted to do Game Changers + Keto, what would a low fat + vegan + keto diet look like?

    Calorie-deficient!

    Ornish and Esselstyn (and Campbell and the rest of the vegan doctor crew, as well as Joel Fuhrman) are actually skeptical of anything but a pretty moderate amount of protein too -- push the RDA and not the higher amounts many of us recommend for those on a deficit. They tend to promote higher carb diets in general. How bad fat is (in their opinions, I don't think it's bad) does vary based on plant-sourced vs. animal-sourced, but they tend to limit even sources like nuts and avoid added or cooking with oils.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    banshee925 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Choose one or the other. While it is not impossible, they are very difficult to do in conjunction with each other, and foods that fit naturally well in a ketogenic tend to be meat and cheeses. Vegan foods on the other hands tend to be higher in carbs. Are there certain vegan foods that are Keto-friendly? Sure. But can you get enough calories, proper macro and micro-nutrients, and enough variety to want to eat it long term if you combine both? Unlikely.

    And just because there is a documentary on Netflix, doesn't mean you should accept it as the truth. Plant-based diets do have some benefits with them, but the movie was a movie was also fairly biased and inaccurate: https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a29067926/the-game-changers-movie-fact-check/.

    If you truly believe Keto will help you with your medical condition, I would focus on that. It is hard enough to stick to without making things 10x harder for yourself by trying to go vegan as well.

    All my keto meal plans are already planned out by professionals, I just chose which meal plans to follow and there is the option to choose vegan plans too. Isn’t it trial and error with any lifestyle change or diet to see if we can live with it? 😊

    Would you please post examples of the vegan and keto plans they offer?
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    banshee925 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Choose one or the other. While it is not impossible, they are very difficult to do in conjunction with each other, and foods that fit naturally well in a ketogenic tend to be meat and cheeses. Vegan foods on the other hands tend to be higher in carbs. Are there certain vegan foods that are Keto-friendly? Sure. But can you get enough calories, proper macro and micro-nutrients, and enough variety to want to eat it long term if you combine both? Unlikely.

    And just because there is a documentary on Netflix, doesn't mean you should accept it as the truth. Plant-based diets do have some benefits with them, but the movie was a movie was also fairly biased and inaccurate: https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a29067926/the-game-changers-movie-fact-check/.

    If you truly believe Keto will help you with your medical condition, I would focus on that. It is hard enough to stick to without making things 10x harder for yourself by trying to go vegan as well.

    All my keto meal plans are already planned out by professionals, I just chose which meal plans to follow and there is the option to choose vegan plans too. Isn’t it trial and error with any lifestyle change or diet to see if we can live with it? 😊
    Tedebearduff wrote: »
    capnrus789 wrote: »
    banshee925 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    banshee925 wrote: »
    I use keto for medical reasons and the food plan options are vegan too so they must be compatible.

    I was watch a documentary on the health benefits of going vegan. The scientific evidence of how much better it is for strengthening, energy and the digestive system.

    Which documentary?

    The game changers

    Go listen to the Joe Rogan Podcast, the recent show with Chris Kresser. Go in with an open mind and try to limit any self serving bias you may have. A vegan-keto diet is going to be very restrictive and difficult to follow, and may ultimately be harmful to your long term health if you're not very, very careful.

    Would like to second this, the Game Changers is a movie not really a documentary there are lots of articles out now that debunk everything they go on about. The information they choose to show is all cherry picked data.

    Nate lost allot before he won so to say he won cause he was vegan what about his 9 previous losses?

    Spartans where prisoners of war forced to fight, fed vegetables cause it was cheap (throw a prisoner a yam is easier then making them a steak, and then why make a prisoner a steak) Their previous diet would be unknown but most likely contain meat.

    Strongman guy is no one in the industry of importance outside of his local shows.

    Blood tests done at optimal timing to support their agenda, the reverse can be done on vegans, feed them grapes do some blood work show the insulin spike and then go on about how being vegan will lead to diabetes.
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    banshee925 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    banshee925 wrote: »
    I use keto for medical reasons and the food plan options are vegan too so they must be compatible.

    I was watch a documentary on the health benefits of going vegan. The scientific evidence of how much better it is for strengthening, energy and the digestive system.

    Which documentary?

    The game changers

    That's not a documentary, in the sense of providing balanced, scientifically accurate information. It's an advocacy film whose famous producers have financial interests in companies that sell vegan products. Think it over.

    And I say that as someone who's been a vegetarian for 45 years, and an athlete for 15+ years, not as a shill for Big Meat.

    Vegan eating can be very healthful. Keto eating can be healthful. They're very challenging, but not impossible, to combine.

    A good evidence-based source for special nutritional considerations for veganism, since that's the part that appears to be new for you, is this one:

    https://veganhealth.org/

    Best wishes!

    Thanks I will have a read of that 😊
    xxzenabxx wrote: »
    I’m sorry but I wouldn’t risk my health for a documentary. If Keto is working then continue eating meat. Also being plant based is seriously flawed because I’m South Asian, and you should see how burnt the Indian labourers hands get just to get out cashews! It’s sooooo unethical! Also don’t get me started on cocoa farmers from African countries who have never tasted the chocolate that they grow? There’s flaws in the meat industry, the dairy and other food industries. Just to grown one almond in California uses up so much water where there is already a shortage. It’s about being ethical vs non ethical. The rest is up to you.

    I’m not risking my health at all 😂
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Another good piece on The Game Changers: https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/

    The vegan nutrition site linked by Ann above is an excellent one, and here's another: https://www.theveganrd.com/

    Worth noting that although the Game Changers movie didn't focus on fat content, most of the so-called medical experts it apparently cited and relied on promote relatively low fat diets -- this includes Dean Ornish, and Caldwell Esselstyn (http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/plant-based-nutrition/),

    All this information is great thanks for your replies😊

    I am looking into it, it’s an option I can take it or leave it, I love meat and cheese dairy but if it has enough positives for my health and the planet then I may give it a go.

    Also I don’t believe everything I see on tv or read online, I’m not stupid. I’m open minded and interested in educating myself always.

    I am far from vegan but i am keto and love veggies. If you want, you can certainly be healthy with either or both lifestyles as long as you are getting the nutrition you need. And if you love meat and cheese (perfect for keto) there is no reason not to incorporate them into your diet. And based on my experience, its difficult to sustain diets through removal of foods you love.

    What i would recommend is slowly moving away from meats and trying more plant based meals until learn how to incorporate various protein (amino acid) profiles and can get adequate protein levels (1.5-2.2g/kg).

    I personally couldn't hit the protein levels required going vegan and keto. Heck, it can be a struggle to hit them sometimes while being regular keto. But i am also looking to sustain or gain some muscle while cutting and most veggie proteins are inferior as it relates to leucine levels (main driver for muscle protein synthesis). And given the studies i have seen showing benefits of dairy and meats for muscle, i plan to stick with it.

    I will note, i do eat a lot of avocados (almost one daily), frequently consume nuts/seed (macadamia, walnuts, hazelnut, etc..) and try to get salad a few times a week.

    Overall, if you reduce/cut out added sugar and omega 6 fatty (especially processed oils/dressing), and have an overall wholesome diet, you will be in a good position to improve metabolic health markers.
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