Coronavirus prep
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Seems like the tut tutting is in full force, so you are not right about that.
Personally, I'm okay with anyone having outdoor events with (I would hope) vaxxed people, but it seems like there is going to be (unhelpful) tut tutting of anyone one disapproves of politically no matter what the event.
My neighborhood is planning a block party, so come tut tut us.
It's possible to approve of someone politically and disapprove of their holding a party with hundreds of people during a pandemic, even if it's outside, even if in theory they're all supposed to be vaccinated (IMO, if you get together a group that large, you're going to have at least a couple of dozen who are lying about being vaccinated).
While his estate may be big enough that hundreds of people could theoretically wander the grounds at a safe distance from each other, I doubt that was the prevailing behavior at an occasion with music, dancing, food, drink, and the opportunity to get within elbow-rubbing distance of Beyonce.
Given the evidence that vaccinated people can still transmit it, odds are a large number of people are going to go back to their lives (a few may even fly commercial -- gasp!! -- back to their lives) and create new transmissions chains that will end up reaching folks who are unvaccinated because they can't get vaccinated. I just think throwing an extravagant birthday party under pandemic conditions is a really bad look. If somebody wants to act like a narcissist, they shouldn't be surprised when other people call them on it.
I think the only people who can claim consistency on this one is (1) habitual opponents of mask-wearing and other pandemic-control measures who shrug their shoulders at Obama's party and (2) habitual supporters of mask-wearing and other pandemic-control measures who tut-tut over Obama's party.
Some of us have been consistent that outdoor events are low risk, and have been consistent with that despite the political leanings of any particular event. The exception, of course, is when an outdoor event has a whole lot of indoor gatherings along with it... one in particular comes to mind where many profile government officials became infected as a result. In short, consistency is consistency whether they fall under your categories or not.
If hundreds of people are under a couple of tents dancing with each other, I think the distinction between indoor and outdoor becomes fairly academic.
Tents have walls and ceilings, so I would agree there. If it's just a conopy (without walls), I don't see it as "inside."2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »The right political party put on the event in Martha's Vineyard, no chance of spreading cooties there.
Sarcasm.
TBH I'm much more concerned about our local fairs.....the newspaper has been showing pictures of crowds and crowds of people, the likes of which haven't ever been seen since opening over 75 years ago.
The fact that everything seems to be acting 'normal' around here is going to drive numbers up again. People seem to have forgotten where we were such a short time ago.
And IDK why Obama and his 60th has become such a controversial issue anyways. Have we forgotten all the other politicians/celebrities/yahoos out there, who haven't adhered to anything related to caution???13 -
Two notes from our areas.....
Places are still having a difficult time finding employees and have had to reduce hours, etc. Employers are begging for help.
A co-worker of dh was getting married a week or 2 ago and it ended up not happening. He had out-of-town guests flying and driving in for the wedding. One of the guys driving from Texas started feeling ill so took a Covid test, tested positive.
The test he took was bought at a pharmacy, a home test. I guess I wasn't aware of those being a thing yet?5 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Seems like the tut tutting is in full force, so you are not right about that.
Personally, I'm okay with anyone having outdoor events with (I would hope) vaxxed people, but it seems like there is going to be (unhelpful) tut tutting of anyone one disapproves of politically no matter what the event.
My neighborhood is planning a block party, so come tut tut us.
It's possible to approve of someone politically and disapprove of their holding a party with hundreds of people during a pandemic, even if it's outside, even if in theory they're all supposed to be vaccinated (IMO, if you get together a group that large, you're going to have at least a couple of dozen who are lying about being vaccinated).
While his estate may be big enough that hundreds of people could theoretically wander the grounds at a safe distance from each other, I doubt that was the prevailing behavior at an occasion with music, dancing, food, drink, and the opportunity to get within elbow-rubbing distance of Beyonce.
Given the evidence that vaccinated people can still transmit it, odds are a large number of people are going to go back to their lives (a few may even fly commercial -- gasp!! -- back to their lives) and create new transmissions chains that will end up reaching folks who are unvaccinated because they can't get vaccinated. I just think throwing an extravagant birthday party under pandemic conditions is a really bad look. If somebody wants to act like a narcissist, they shouldn't be surprised when other people call them on it.
I think the only people who can claim consistency on this one is (1) habitual opponents of mask-wearing and other pandemic-control measures who shrug their shoulders at Obama's party and (2) habitual supporters of mask-wearing and other pandemic-control measures who tut-tut over Obama's party.
I think that the people who can claim consistency on this are those that consistently adhere to whatever the current public health guidelines are in effect in their area at a given time.
My family are holding two gatherings (weddings) over the next several weeks - both of which will follow or exceed the guidelines that our public health department has set out. I wouldn't say we are narcissists.
Unfortunately, public health guidelines have tended to be extremely reactive and based on trailing indicators. After cases and hospitalizations spiked in 2020 after Easter, and after Memorial Day cookouts, and after July 4 cookouts, I didn't need to wait until late September for local public health guidance to be tweaked to know that anybody I encountered a few days after Labor Day was statistically more likely to be infected than they were a few days before. We haven't got this under control and public health guidelines that repeatedly have encouraged loosening up as though we have it under control only to be followed by new surges haven't really helped matters.
And the remark about acting like a narcissist was aimed at extremely wealthy and famous people who largely have far more ability than the rest of us to control their risk from things like shopping or public transit and nevertheless choose to create a publicized spectacle of hundreds of people in close quarters, outside or not.
I've been feeling guilty that I attended a couple of funerals during the recent brief period of very low transmission/incidence rates locally, even though I was vaccinated and everyone I knew who was going was vaccinated and I and most other people wore masks for the indoor portion in spaces that were definitely well below 50% capacity. And now things are spiking again.
So I just don't have any patience left for people who apparently think that after 600,000+ deaths in this country alone, you can't be happy with a nice meal or cookout and cake and ice cream with immediate family and maybe a few close friends who don't have to jet across the country to get there -- speaking of which, I could go live in a cave for the rest of my life eating only what I could forage and go naked when my current clothing wears out and the reduction in my carbon footprint might make up half of the carbon emissions generated by people just flying to this party, if I lived to 110!
Not sure where you are in the US - I looked at a few of the stats for states down there and given the abysmal vaccination rates you seem to be in a much different situation than we are up here. Also I believe from everything I have heard that our public health measures have been much more restrictive than yours, we have never come out of indoor masking and capacity limits for events.
Tbh I have paid only peripheral attention to what is going on in the US, but a lot of it seems pretty negative.
I expect our divergent opinions are influenced by the different ways we have experienced the pandemic based on our location, and given what I have heard about the US situation I understand your frustration.2 -
So good or bad, I am responsible for starting the whole topic of the birthday party in question, and note that I started out by saying that I will be watching to see what happens. That is a very neutral position, as it was intended. I will be watching out of curiosity. Will this event have no consequences and will it speak to what can be accomplished with a certain set of protocols? Or will it act like a spreader despite efforts due to its size and social nature of the activities? We may never know because I question if we will we be allowed true data from those that attended, and will any infection data be edited just like the "no photo" policy (and the cynic in me believes the "no photo" policy has to do with keeping "we the public" uninformed).
Separate from my data loving curiosity, do I have opinions on the event? Sure. I am not keen on hypocritical behavior. Mr. Obama tends to align himself with those associated with Dr. Fauci. Now if a generic you or me got Dr. Fauci's input on whether or not we should host a comparable party, both in size, time and social interactions, I firmly believe that Dr. Fauci would state that it is too high a risk and you or I would be told that it is inappropriate and irresponsible at this time. That is my issue. Since the beginning of the pandemic, I have been bothered by anyone with double standards who follow the "do as I say but not as I do" expression. My anti-hypocrisy sentiments don't just apply to COVID but life in general and can be seen as far back as my elementary school days.11 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »The right political party put on the event in Martha's Vineyard, no chance of spreading cooties there.
Sarcasm.
TBH I'm much more concerned about our local fairs.....the newspaper has been showing pictures of crowds and crowds of people, the likes of which haven't ever been seen since opening over 75 years ago. The fact that everything seems to be acting 'normal' around here is going to drive numbers up again. People seem to have forgotten where we were such a short time ago.
And IDK why Obama and his 60th has become such a controversial issue anyways. Have we forgotten all the other politicians/celebrities/yahoos out there, who haven't adhered to anything related to caution???
It's the 24 hour news cycle.5 -
Two notes from our areas.....
Places are still having a difficult time finding employees and have had to reduce hours, etc. Employers are begging for help.
A co-worker of dh was getting married a week or 2 ago and it ended up not happening. He had out-of-town guests flying and driving in for the wedding. One of the guys driving from Texas started feeling ill so took a Covid test, tested positive.
The test he took was bought at a pharmacy, a home test. I guess I wasn't aware of those being a thing yet?
I learned this recently, too, when I was searching rapid test accuracy when DD#3 had a cold. She had a negative rapid test, but they are (average) 50% accurate when Covid is actually present. Some brands are more accurate than others, but it's hard to know what brand you are actually getting when you drive up to a pharmacy hut. Basically, if you get a positive, it is an accurate positive but negatives are a coin toss. They are designed for diagnostic situations where symptoms are present while awaiting a PCR test. They weren't intended to be used to "clear" employees at the door of a workplace (or travelers at the door of a plane), which is how they have been used in some places. They will catch half of positives, but will let the other half through.
More info: https://www.healthline.com/health/how-accurate-are-rapid-covid-tests#advantages-of-rapid-testing5 -
So good or bad, I am responsible for starting the whole topic of the birthday party in question, and note that I started out by saying that I will be watching to see what happens. That is a very neutral position, as it was intended. I will be watching out of curiosity. Will this event have no consequences and will it speak to what can be accomplished with a certain set of protocols? Or will it act like a spreader despite efforts due to its size and social nature of the activities? We may never know because I question if we will we be allowed true data from those that attended, and will any infection data be edited just like the "no photo" policy (and the cynic in me believes the "no photo" policy has to do with keeping "we the public" uninformed).
Separate from my data loving curiosity, do I have opinions on the event? Sure. I am not keen on hypocritical behavior. Mr. Obama tends to align himself with those associated with Dr. Fauci. Now if a generic you or me got Dr. Fauci's input on whether or not we should host a comparable party, both in size, time and social interactions, I firmly believe that Dr. Fauci would state that it is too high a risk and you or I would be told that it is inappropriate and irresponsible at this time. That is my issue. Since the beginning of the pandemic, I have been bothered by anyone with double standards who follow the "do as I say but not as I do" expression. My anti-hypocrisy sentiments don't just apply to COVID but life in general and can be seen as far back as my elementary school days.
Actually I don't think people are being hypocritical. I think they just had made plans earlier in the year when it looked like things were going to go completely back to normal. If you go back to May or June when the COVID #s were crazy low and falling, a lot of folks made plans to travel or have parties. I doubt the Obamas were any different. And even tho the July spikes started up a lot of people continued with their plans due to Covid Fatigue or inability to get refunds etc. I don't really find any of them to be hypocritical or using double standards. It's just the nature of the waves of this pandemic that it's difficult to make plans.10 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Seems like the tut tutting is in full force, so you are not right about that.
Personally, I'm okay with anyone having outdoor events with (I would hope) vaxxed people, but it seems like there is going to be (unhelpful) tut tutting of anyone one disapproves of politically no matter what the event.
My neighborhood is planning a block party, so come tut tut us.
It's possible to approve of someone politically and disapprove of their holding a party with hundreds of people during a pandemic, even if it's outside, even if in theory they're all supposed to be vaccinated (IMO, if you get together a group that large, you're going to have at least a couple of dozen who are lying about being vaccinated).
While his estate may be big enough that hundreds of people could theoretically wander the grounds at a safe distance from each other, I doubt that was the prevailing behavior at an occasion with music, dancing, food, drink, and the opportunity to get within elbow-rubbing distance of Beyonce.
Given the evidence that vaccinated people can still transmit it, odds are a large number of people are going to go back to their lives (a few may even fly commercial -- gasp!! -- back to their lives) and create new transmissions chains that will end up reaching folks who are unvaccinated because they can't get vaccinated. I just think throwing an extravagant birthday party under pandemic conditions is a really bad look. If somebody wants to act like a narcissist, they shouldn't be surprised when other people call them on it.
I think the only people who can claim consistency on this one is (1) habitual opponents of mask-wearing and other pandemic-control measures who shrug their shoulders at Obama's party and (2) habitual supporters of mask-wearing and other pandemic-control measures who tut-tut over Obama's party.
I think that the people who can claim consistency on this are those that consistently adhere to whatever the current public health guidelines are in effect in their area at a given time.
My family are holding two gatherings (weddings) over the next several weeks - both of which will follow or exceed the guidelines that our public health department has set out. I wouldn't say we are narcissists.
Unfortunately, public health guidelines have tended to be extremely reactive and based on trailing indicators. After cases and hospitalizations spiked in 2020 after Easter, and after Memorial Day cookouts, and after July 4 cookouts, I didn't need to wait until late September for local public health guidance to be tweaked to know that anybody I encountered a few days after Labor Day was statistically more likely to be infected than they were a few days before. We haven't got this under control and public health guidelines that repeatedly have encouraged loosening up as though we have it under control only to be followed by new surges haven't really helped matters.
And the remark about acting like a narcissist was aimed at extremely wealthy and famous people who largely have far more ability than the rest of us to control their risk from things like shopping or public transit and nevertheless choose to create a publicized spectacle of hundreds of people in close quarters, outside or not.
I've been feeling guilty that I attended a couple of funerals during the recent brief period of very low transmission/incidence rates locally, even though I was vaccinated and everyone I knew who was going was vaccinated and I and most other people wore masks for the indoor portion in spaces that were definitely well below 50% capacity. And now things are spiking again.
So I just don't have any patience left for people who apparently think that after 600,000+ deaths in this country alone, you can't be happy with a nice meal or cookout and cake and ice cream with immediate family and maybe a few close friends who don't have to jet across the country to get there -- speaking of which, I could go live in a cave for the rest of my life eating only what I could forage and go naked when my current clothing wears out and the reduction in my carbon footprint might make up half of the carbon emissions generated by people just flying to this party, if I lived to 110!
Not sure where you are in the US - I looked at a few of the stats for states down there and given the abysmal vaccination rates you seem to be in a much different situation than we are up here. Also I believe from everything I have heard that our public health measures have been much more restrictive than yours, we have never come out of indoor masking and capacity limits for events.
It varies a lot by state and place to place within states. I think your measures have been a lot more restrictive than ours for a while -- even the places here that were restrictive mostly haven't been since spring, and capacity limits and indoor masking are mostly gone (but for a few places that brought them back).Tbh I have paid only peripheral attention to what is going on in the US, but a lot of it seems pretty negative.
It's largely places with lots of unvaxxed and specifically in the south. One concern is that last year it was spreading a lot in the south in summer and moved north in cooler months. But so far the numbers of vaxxed who are hospitalized is very low. I suspect that there's some connection between places with lower ICU capacity overall and places with high unvaxxed rates, and those places are being hit hard. You would think that would show people that the answer is to get vaxxed, but they are not.
My office has all but one person vaxxed and that person is working mostly from home (is supposed to wear a mask in the office), so it seems pretty normal. So far where I am I haven't noticed many returning to indoor masking and don't think there is any patience for returning to a lockdown or schools not opening again, so we will see what happens. (We had one of the earliest stay at home orders and the various measures lasted for a long time.) Where I live the vaxx rate is good, but for the city as a whole it's much worse than it should be (around the US average or a bit better) and there is no good reason for that -- it's infuriating and makes me really want people to move to harsher measures like a vax passport or more employer requirements (beginning with the city and the schools).
Currently, I still know lots of people going to weddings almost every weekend, however, or family parties and other things that were delayed. I also don't personally know many people who are not vaxxed -- among those I know (but for the one co-worker) everyone rushed to get it ASAP, and people are all frustrated with the non vaxxed.6 -
Stephen Colbert was originally invited to the Obama birthday party but was cut in the scaling back. However, he and his wife still went to Martha's Vineyard for the weekend, and was spotted by photographers at the airport, leading the media to think he still went to the party.
https://youtu.be/tYz7OgTaIo8 2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Stephen Colbert was originally invited to the Obama birthday party but was cut in the scaling back. However, he and his wife still went to Martha's Vineyard for the weekend, and was spotted by photographers at the airport, leading the media to think he still went to the party.https://youtu.be/tYz7OgTaIo8
Bet Stephen is PO'ed he didn't make the cut.3 -
I'm coming here to blow off a little mad, a little anxious and hold a small (masks required, socially distanced) pity party
Can't do it in real life, I have to be the voice of reason or things start to fall apart. Feel free to skip this one, I'm just looking to vent a little this morning, this really doesn't add anything to the discussion.
To start with the mad part, my husband works in a bike shop in a large outdoor store and his close coworkers are all vaxxed and careful. Masks are required all around. Yesterday a guy he works with off and on (who had been absent for a week or so and was supposed to be isolating due to exposure) came in with a mild cough and wanted to come back to work. He'd had covid and hadn't let anyone know, but assured everyone he tested negative now. Fortunately my husband hadn't worked with him within the last two weeks and was in the clear, but others who had closer contact now have to isolate and may have exposed their family and friends. I'm livid!
The anxiety is due to the grandkids going back to school last week, and even in the safest environment possible (masks required indoors, encouraged outdoors, social distancing, updated ventilation system) there have been seven notices of positive covid tests already (all among adults). I'm just sick the kids may have to go back to home-schooling after a year and a half of isolation if it gets worse.
And as far as my pity party goes, Southwest had a half price sale when it looked like the worst of the pandemic was winding down, and we booked tickets to D.C. for the end of Sept. to go to the Smithsonian museums. If the current wave isn't resolved by then we'll have to cancel and I'm just so over everything right now.27 -
I'm coming here to blow off a little mad, a little anxious and hold a small (masks required, socially distanced) pity party Can't do it in real life, I have to be the voice of reason or things start to fall apart. Feel free to skip this one, I'm just looking to vent a little this morning, this really doesn't add anything to the discussion.
To start with the mad part, my husband works in a bike shop in a large outdoor store and his close coworkers are all vaxxed and careful. Masks are required all around. Yesterday a guy he works with off and on (who had been absent for a week or so and was supposed to be isolating due to exposure) came in with a mild cough and wanted to come back to work. He'd had covid and hadn't let anyone know, but assured everyone he tested negative now. Fortunately my husband hadn't worked with him within the last two weeks and was in the clear, but others who had closer contact now have to isolate and may have exposed their family and friends. I'm livid!
The anxiety is due to the grandkids going back to school last week, and even in the safest environment possible (masks required indoors, encouraged outdoors, social distancing, updated ventilation system) there have been seven notices of positive covid tests already (all among adults). I'm just sick the kids may have to go back to home-schooling after a year and a half of isolation if it gets worse.
And as far as my pity party goes, Southwest had a half price sale when it looked like the worst of the pandemic was winding down, and we booked tickets to D.C. for the end of Sept. to go to the Smithsonian museums. If the current wave isn't resolved by then we'll have to cancel and I'm just so over everything right now.
I totally get the mad part! My nephew got married weekend before last - it was a small wedding, 50 people, ceremony outside and reception inside. He asked everyone prior to the wedding if they were vaxxed and everyone assured him they were.
I didn't go, but one of my sisters did. She flew home Monday, came to visit us on Tuesday and on Wednesday the bride's father started telling people he had covid symptoms starting Monday and was getting tested on Thursday. He wasn't vaccinated. I'm so ticked off. My husband is super high risk and we've been so careful. If my sister had known the bride's father wasn't vaccinated she wouldn't have visited us. Although the father tested positive, my sister and her husband tested negative which was good news.
I'm just livid that he put so many people at risk. If they'd known he wasn't vaccinated they could have taken precautions which, for my sister, would have meant not going.23 -
I'm coming here to blow off a little mad, a little anxious and hold a small (masks required, socially distanced) pity party Can't do it in real life, I have to be the voice of reason or things start to fall apart. Feel free to skip this one, I'm just looking to vent a little this morning, this really doesn't add anything to the discussion.
To start with the mad part, my husband works in a bike shop in a large outdoor store and his close coworkers are all vaxxed and careful. Masks are required all around. Yesterday a guy he works with off and on (who had been absent for a week or so and was supposed to be isolating due to exposure) came in with a mild cough and wanted to come back to work. He'd had covid and hadn't let anyone know, but assured everyone he tested negative now. Fortunately my husband hadn't worked with him within the last two weeks and was in the clear, but others who had closer contact now have to isolate and may have exposed their family and friends. I'm livid!
The anxiety is due to the grandkids going back to school last week, and even in the safest environment possible (masks required indoors, encouraged outdoors, social distancing, updated ventilation system) there have been seven notices of positive covid tests already (all among adults). I'm just sick the kids may have to go back to home-schooling after a year and a half of isolation if it gets worse.
And as far as my pity party goes, Southwest had a half price sale when it looked like the worst of the pandemic was winding down, and we booked tickets to D.C. for the end of Sept. to go to the Smithsonian museums. If the current wave isn't resolved by then we'll have to cancel and I'm just so over everything right now.
I totally get the mad part! My nephew got married weekend before last - it was a small wedding, 50 people, ceremony outside and reception inside. He asked everyone prior to the wedding if they were vaxxed and everyone assured him they were.
I didn't go, but one of my sisters did. She flew home Monday, came to visit us on Tuesday and on Wednesday the bride's father started telling people who had covid symptoms starting Monday and was getting tested on Thursday. He wasn't vaccinated. I'm so ticked off. My husband is super high risk and we've been so careful. If my sister had known the bride's father wasn't vaccinated she wouldn't have visited us. Although the father tested positive, my sister and her husband tested negative which was good news.
I'm just livid that he put so many people at risk. If they'd known he wasn't vaccinated they could have taken precautions which, for my sister, would have meant not going.
I'm right there in the angry boat with both of you. The people who lie (father of bride) and don't tell the whole truth (co-worker) are obfuscating so that they can do what they want to do while burdening OTHER PEOPLE with the consequences --not just risk of getting sick but loss of hourly wages due to missed work while isolating and missed social/family obligations. All 3 of my daughters had careful 4th of July plans that got tanked because one person exposed them, and that person didn't feel like giving them the courtesy of telling the truth. Ok, maybe that was a blessing in disguise but missing work is no joke for anyone. Your indignation is rightful in my book.13 -
Two notes from our areas.....
Places are still having a difficult time finding employees and have had to reduce hours, etc. Employers are begging for help.
A co-worker of dh was getting married a week or 2 ago and it ended up not happening. He had out-of-town guests flying and driving in for the wedding. One of the guys driving from Texas started feeling ill so took a Covid test, tested positive.
The test he took was bought at a pharmacy, a home test. I guess I wasn't aware of those being a thing yet?
Home tests have been a thing for awhile. Depending upon why you are taking the test, they might not count. For example, if you need a negative Covid test to return to work at my company, the home tests are not qualified. This is because we don't know if you had someone else take the test in order to get a negative result.5 -
rheddmobile wrote: »On the subject of less recently vaxxed folks, my mother keeps bothering me to get her an appointment for a booster shot. I tell her that isn’t a thing yet, and she can’t get it through her head, and ten minutes later tells me to make an appointment with her doctor to discuss getting her a booster shot. It’s because her news feed is full of discussion of people needing booster shots, she just can’t wrap her head around the fact that it’s not happening.
But it is happening but I don't know how!0 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Seems like the tut tutting is in full force, so you are not right about that.
Personally, I'm okay with anyone having outdoor events with (I would hope) vaxxed people, but it seems like there is going to be (unhelpful) tut tutting of anyone one disapproves of politically no matter what the event.
My neighborhood is planning a block party, so come tut tut us.
It's possible to approve of someone politically and disapprove of their holding a party with hundreds of people during a pandemic, even if it's outside, even if in theory they're all supposed to be vaccinated (IMO, if you get together a group that large, you're going to have at least a couple of dozen who are lying about being vaccinated).
While his estate may be big enough that hundreds of people could theoretically wander the grounds at a safe distance from each other, I doubt that was the prevailing behavior at an occasion with music, dancing, food, drink, and the opportunity to get within elbow-rubbing distance of Beyonce.
Given the evidence that vaccinated people can still transmit it, odds are a large number of people are going to go back to their lives (a few may even fly commercial -- gasp!! -- back to their lives) and create new transmissions chains that will end up reaching folks who are unvaccinated because they can't get vaccinated. I just think throwing an extravagant birthday party under pandemic conditions is a really bad look. If somebody wants to act like a narcissist, they shouldn't be surprised when other people call them on it.
I think the only people who can claim consistency on this one is (1) habitual opponents of mask-wearing and other pandemic-control measures who shrug their shoulders at Obama's party and (2) habitual supporters of mask-wearing and other pandemic-control measures who tut-tut over Obama's party.
Some of us have been consistent that outdoor events are low risk, and have been consistent with that despite the political leanings of any particular event. The exception, of course, is when an outdoor event has a whole lot of indoor gatherings along with it... one in particular comes to mind where many profile government officials became infected as a result. In short, consistency is consistency whether they fall under your categories or not.
If hundreds of people are under a couple of tents dancing with each other, I think the distinction between indoor and outdoor becomes fairly academic.
Tents have walls and ceilings, so I would agree there. If it's just a conopy (without walls), I don't see it as "inside."
Close enough to dance, for long enough to dance, with no mask, with someone outside one's own household, even under a roof-only canopy? Seems close enough for contagion, to me, even if everyone's vaxed.
I don't know whether those were the conditions that applied. I'm not making a judgement. IMO, one of the evils associated with the stupid-instant news cycle is a common rush to judgement before everything relevant has had time to come out (if it ever does/will). Hard opinion I hold: Everyone ought to strive for a level of intellectual discipline about getting all the facts, before judging. Often, when the final relevant details come out, no one is paying attention anymore, because the news cycle has moved on. That's an ignorance-enhancing effect, IMO. (I'm not saying I always succeed in waiting, myself, either, BTW.)
I'm not a big Obama fan. I'm not affiliated formally or informally with either/any US political faction. I wouldn't have a big party now, personally . . . wouldn't have pretty much any kind of party, really. I don't have enough facts to judge how big a risk this particular case was. It will be interesting to see - if it ever comes out - whether any spread occurred due to this . . . which I don't think is *necessarily* a partisan-political question. (Rich people get a lot of hall passes, publicity-wise, on either side of the political spectrum.)9 -
Some of you are trying hard to get this thread closed
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Returning to the original theme of the thread: Anybody have any ideas on where to go to stock up on patience? I find I'm fresh out.
I'm relying on bourbon, but that's probably not good advice.20 -
I was a fan of the dead Bush, and of Hilary's husband, and of the tall "young" dude from Chicago--as much as any non-national with no stake other than avoiding nuclear winter, plus, well, the more vibrant the US economy, the more money made by the guy who slips me kibble acquisition funds... thus the more kibble for my dog! So woohoo!!!! Let's go pay-check enhancers down south! I love you!
Yes, it is incredibly hard to re-arrange events and yes, when this mega event was getting planned things were looking better. Yes, it looks like we're all currently marching to a "let's all get infected" drum. I mean, I'm looking at you no-test Jason (hey: no testing = no COVID, am I right, or what?)
But yes. The party *optics* were a bit of a: Seriously? Dude? You? You? Really? *kitten me*!
I mean I am sitting here contemplating: prohibiting schools from mandating masks... sticking our head in the sand, removing all mask mandates and restrictions, AND not testing anyone.... or having a titanic sized tent party--which one wins a Darwin prize?
And then I think: all three! But only one of them is right *kitten* here--and it ain't a party!
Where's my share of that bourbon @kimny72 ?9 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Seems like the tut tutting is in full force, so you are not right about that.
Personally, I'm okay with anyone having outdoor events with (I would hope) vaxxed people, but it seems like there is going to be (unhelpful) tut tutting of anyone one disapproves of politically no matter what the event.
My neighborhood is planning a block party, so come tut tut us.
It's possible to approve of someone politically and disapprove of their holding a party with hundreds of people during a pandemic, even if it's outside, even if in theory they're all supposed to be vaccinated (IMO, if you get together a group that large, you're going to have at least a couple of dozen who are lying about being vaccinated).
While his estate may be big enough that hundreds of people could theoretically wander the grounds at a safe distance from each other, I doubt that was the prevailing behavior at an occasion with music, dancing, food, drink, and the opportunity to get within elbow-rubbing distance of Beyonce.
Given the evidence that vaccinated people can still transmit it, odds are a large number of people are going to go back to their lives (a few may even fly commercial -- gasp!! -- back to their lives) and create new transmissions chains that will end up reaching folks who are unvaccinated because they can't get vaccinated. I just think throwing an extravagant birthday party under pandemic conditions is a really bad look. If somebody wants to act like a narcissist, they shouldn't be surprised when other people call them on it.
I think the only people who can claim consistency on this one is (1) habitual opponents of mask-wearing and other pandemic-control measures who shrug their shoulders at Obama's party and (2) habitual supporters of mask-wearing and other pandemic-control measures who tut-tut over Obama's party.
Some of us have been consistent that outdoor events are low risk, and have been consistent with that despite the political leanings of any particular event. The exception, of course, is when an outdoor event has a whole lot of indoor gatherings along with it... one in particular comes to mind where many profile government officials became infected as a result. In short, consistency is consistency whether they fall under your categories or not.
If hundreds of people are under a couple of tents dancing with each other, I think the distinction between indoor and outdoor becomes fairly academic.
Tents have walls and ceilings, so I would agree there. If it's just a conopy (without walls), I don't see it as "inside."
Close enough to dance, for long enough to dance, with no mask, with someone outside one's own household, even under a roof-only canopy? Seems close enough for contagion, to me, even if everyone's vaxed.
I didn't claim zero risk, I said outdoors is low risk. I don't disagree with your conclusion that such circumstances COULD result in spread. But as you already acknowledged, we don't really know the setup or how people interacted, nor for how long. We don't even really know how many people were there.6
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