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Has a documentary ever influenced you to eat more plant based?

JessBbody
JessBbody Posts: 523 Member
Do documentaries, or reading health articles, books, etc., influence you when it comes to plant based eating?

Has any information that you've come across actually convinced you to eat less meat and dairy, for whatever reason appeals to you (ethical, health, etc.)?

About a month ago I watched 2 documentaries that were both advocating a plant based diet. They were both narrated by the same guy, but they both had different reasons for their claims.

The first was called What the Health and it was produced by Joaquin Phoenix (a huge vegan advocate). Its whole premise was that a plant based diet was the healthiest way to eat and that eating meat was a recipe for disease. It also emphasized the way animals are treated in factory farms and traditional animal agriculture, aside from just killing them.

The second was called Cowspiracy and it was produced by Leonardo DiCaprio (a known environmentalist). Its purpose was to show how animal agriculture is a huge burden on the planet and is contributing to climate change - more than even transportation.

I also watched a slew of short YouTube documentaries, such as The Weight of the nation, on obesity that also advocated eating less meat and more fruits and vegetables.

I understand that the two documentaries have their own agenda. They certainly weren't fair and balanced. But they did go some way in convincing me.

For example, they showed something that caused one expert to refer to cheese as "coagulated cow pus." I swear, since then I've found myself thinking of that often when I eat cheese. I also haven't eaten beef in a month.

I'm curious about the effectiveness of such agenda-driven information. I'm wondering if documentaries like this are actually reaching anybody, or if people just don't watch them because they don't want to radically change their diets. (Both of these are available on Netflix).

So I'm wondering, do these sorts of arguments influence you at all? Has anything you've seen or read caused you not to order a burger or have beans for protein instead of chicken? What are your reasons?
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Replies

  • I find them vaguely interesting when they're not being ridiculous, but they don't affect me. I have various conditions that mean that I've had to eliminate a lot of common fruits and vegetables from my diet. Not willingly; I'd love to eat a nice pear instead of dessert, and I'd love to have a good bean soup for lunch, and a nice plate of beef with broccoli for dinner, but I don't want to live in the amount of physical misery I'd endure if I actually consumed those things. So being vegetarian or vegan is off the table until the gods decide to rewire my liver and my guts.
  • JessBbody
    JessBbody Posts: 523 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Personally, I think shifting my thinking based solely on propaganda is a slippery slope to low intellectual standards and generally poor cognition. Any "documentary" that calls cheese "coagulated cow pus" without any counterbalancing factual material is propaganda, IMO.

    Generally, these are advocacy pieces, and should be seen as such. They're trying to sell us something, not to educate.

    Before you assume I'm a shill for Big Meat: I've been ovo-lacto vegetarian since 1974 (yup, over 46 years). My initial reasons for adopting that way of eating had to do with resource utilization, and a general ethical sense that decent developed-country people try to reduce the many unavoidable harms they create in a challenged (and mostly poorer) world. starting with the things that are individually easiest for them (so will vary by person - vegetarian was part of my "easy" - might not be for others, and that's fine).

    Vegetarians or fully plant based eaters can get good nutrition, and it's not hard, but it does require slightly more attention than it takes for omnivores. That said, most omnivores - if surveys are to be believed - would be better off nutritionally if they ate substantilly more plants than the average person does now. (From what I've read, it's statistically unusual to reach the minimal "5 servings a day" recommendation. Yes, some people do, and some omnivores exceed that . . . so there must be some statistically counterbalancing folks out there getting nearly none. That would be bad, nutritionally.)

    So, my opinions: Would it be better if the average person ate more plants, and less of something else? Yes, for varied reasons. Should everyone stop eating meat or other animal foods? Not essential, IMO. Is meat-eating unhealthy? No. (That idea seems ridiculous to me, from an evolutionary perspective.) Should we collectively be trying to reduce the environmental and other deleterious impacts of modern meat production practice? Sure, that would be a good thing, and would apply to not just meat, but other food production, goods production, etc

    Do these specific Netflix "documentaries" - the ones you mention and other similar ones - influence my thinking and eating? No. I try to educate myself about issues around the food I eat, and the impacts of its production methods, and take reasonable steps in my personal behavior accordingly . . . but advocacy pieces are not a great source of education, IMO. Kind of the reverse.

    Do well-researched factual articles, and especially research studies or careful balanced investigative reporing influence my thinking? Sure, I hope so. About plant based eating specifically or uniquely? No. Many food
    production methods cause harm. So do other aspects of our developed-world lifestyles.

    It's trendy to demonize meat, and Netflix is notorious for delivering the long-form version of clickbait.

    Thank you for providing a cogent argument that isn't too insulting to my intellectual capabilities :)

    I've heard from you and others here that Netflix "documentaries" are not reliable sources of information, and that's not the first time I've heard that. I'm wondering who these experts panelists are, doctors and environmental scientists, who are willing to put their names out there and make these claims, if they don't have their own studies and research to back them up.

    Granted I haven't read the studies, but I've found that in my readings of psychology, there is almost always a study that will wholly refute another study trying to prove the opposite hypothesis. Maybe it's different for medicine and climate change.

    I see the cheese thing stood out for a lot of people. Without going into detail of the visuals involved (so as not to "gross everyone out"), it had to do with the way the cows were handled and mistakes that can be made. I don't think that all cheese is, well, what I said. I think that must have been an exaggeration for dramatic effect. And probably by the worst propaganda pusher.

    In any case my aim is to see if things like this actually influence people to change their eating habits. I wanted to know if the makers of these films are getting their message out. I've seen from you all that it doesn't, and they're not. Films like this are not to be trusted, you say.

    I appreciate those of you who mentioned reducing meat consumption for environmental reasons. I admit that's where the second film "got" me the most. Since your knowledge came from more legitimate sources it gives me incentive to do further research before I cut out meat for the "wrong" reason, e.g. A Netflix film convinced me to do it.

    Thank you, everyone, for your feedback.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    edited September 2020
    JessBbody wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Personally, I think shifting my thinking based solely on propaganda is a slippery slope to low intellectual standards and generally poor cognition. Any "documentary" that calls cheese "coagulated cow pus" without any counterbalancing factual material is propaganda, IMO.

    Generally, these are advocacy pieces, and should be seen as such. They're trying to sell us something, not to educate.

    Before you assume I'm a shill for Big Meat: I've been ovo-lacto vegetarian since 1974 (yup, over 46 years). My initial reasons for adopting that way of eating had to do with resource utilization, and a general ethical sense that decent developed-country people try to reduce the many unavoidable harms they create in a challenged (and mostly poorer) world. starting with the things that are individually easiest for them (so will vary by person - vegetarian was part of my "easy" - might not be for others, and that's fine).

    Vegetarians or fully plant based eaters can get good nutrition, and it's not hard, but it does require slightly more attention than it takes for omnivores. That said, most omnivores - if surveys are to be believed - would be better off nutritionally if they ate substantilly more plants than the average person does now. (From what I've read, it's statistically unusual to reach the minimal "5 servings a day" recommendation. Yes, some people do, and some omnivores exceed that . . . so there must be some statistically counterbalancing folks out there getting nearly none. That would be bad, nutritionally.)

    So, my opinions: Would it be better if the average person ate more plants, and less of something else? Yes, for varied reasons. Should everyone stop eating meat or other animal foods? Not essential, IMO. Is meat-eating unhealthy? No. (That idea seems ridiculous to me, from an evolutionary perspective.) Should we collectively be trying to reduce the environmental and other deleterious impacts of modern meat production practice? Sure, that would be a good thing, and would apply to not just meat, but other food production, goods production, etc

    Do these specific Netflix "documentaries" - the ones you mention and other similar ones - influence my thinking and eating? No. I try to educate myself about issues around the food I eat, and the impacts of its production methods, and take reasonable steps in my personal behavior accordingly . . . but advocacy pieces are not a great source of education, IMO. Kind of the reverse.

    Do well-researched factual articles, and especially research studies or careful balanced investigative reporing influence my thinking? Sure, I hope so. About plant based eating specifically or uniquely? No. Many food
    production methods cause harm. So do other aspects of our developed-world lifestyles.

    It's trendy to demonize meat, and Netflix is notorious for delivering the long-form version of clickbait.

    Thank you for providing a cogent argument that isn't too insulting to my intellectual capabilities :)

    I've heard from you and others here that Netflix "documentaries" are not reliable sources of information, and that's not the first time I've heard that. I'm wondering who these experts panelists are, doctors and environmental scientists, who are willing to put their names out there and make these claims, if they don't have their own studies and research to back them up.

    Granted I haven't read the studies, but I've found that in my readings of psychology, there is almost always a study that will wholly refute another study trying to prove the opposite hypothesis. Maybe it's different for medicine and climate change.

    I see the cheese thing stood out for a lot of people. Without going into detail of the visuals involved (so as not to "gross everyone out"), it had to do with the way the cows were handled and mistakes that can be made. I don't think that all cheese is, well, what I said. I think that must have been an exaggeration for dramatic effect. And probably by the worst propaganda pusher.

    In any case my aim is to see if things like this actually influence people to change their eating habits. I wanted to know if the makers of these films are getting their message out. I've seen from you all that it doesn't, and they're not. Films like this are not to be trusted, you say.

    I appreciate those of you who mentioned reducing meat consumption for environmental reasons. I admit that's where the second film "got" me the most. Since your knowledge came from more legitimate sources it gives me incentive to do further research before I cut out meat for the "wrong" reason, e.g. A Netflix film convinced me to do it.

    Thank you, everyone, for your feedback.

    Doctors are just people. Yes, they're people who have received specialized training, but they're capable of having errors in their reasoning, making venal or financially motivated decisions, or just being wrong. Usually the answer to "But why would a doctor say [x] when it isn't right or can't be proven?" can be found in one of the above.

  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    krose4514 wrote: »
    Contrary to what most people are saying here, I certainly have been influenced by such documentaries. What has influenced me, however, is not the ‘gross’ factor or the nutrition factor either (if I could easily change my eating habits for better nutrition I would have given up sugar long before meat!). It’s also not the pure ethical argument - I see no problem with killing animals for food, I see this as the circle of life.

    What such documentaries DID open my eyes to was how incredibly cruelly animals are treated when raised for meat on factory farms in the US and how this process is largely influenced by desire to profit by meeting the huge demand for meat in the US that far surpasses any true ‘need’ that we have. My clear takeaway from this was that it was very important for Americans to significantly *reduce* (but not necessarily eliminate) their meat consumption. As a result of such documentaries, I did end up going purely vegetarian for a short time (about 6 months). I say short time not because I just forgot/gave up/stopped caring, but because I moved abroad shortly thereafter. I moved somewhere where I would have very little control over my food, where vegetarianism isn’t a thing, and where animals are not raised on factory farms! For these reasons, I shifted back to meat eating not only due to need, but also due to the fact that my major concerns were not relevant in that context.

    Since returning to the US, I have also returned to hugely limiting my meat consumption. I do not buy it at the grocery store, I do not cook it, I only (sometimes) eat it when going out to a restaurant or when someone else is cooking for me. I don’t see myself going back to my old ways thinking meat is a required part of every meal any time soon. The environmental argument is also starting to make more of an impact on me and reinforcing this approach. And, yes, this all came from a documentary I watched back in college!

    I am intrigued by the argument that it's morally appropriate to end someone's life for pleasure or convenience but that one cannot take measures to make a profit off of doing so. If it's okay to eat someone, why would it be inappropriate to cause them discomfort, pain, or distress in the process? Presumably the "circle of life" contains all three of those experiences.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    krose4514 wrote: »
    krose4514 wrote: »
    Contrary to what most people are saying here, I certainly have been influenced by such documentaries. What has influenced me, however, is not the ‘gross’ factor or the nutrition factor either (if I could easily change my eating habits for better nutrition I would have given up sugar long before meat!). It’s also not the pure ethical argument - I see no problem with killing animals for food, I see this as the circle of life.

    What such documentaries DID open my eyes to was how incredibly cruelly animals are treated when raised for meat on factory farms in the US and how this process is largely influenced by desire to profit by meeting the huge demand for meat in the US that far surpasses any true ‘need’ that we have. My clear takeaway from this was that it was very important for Americans to significantly *reduce* (but not necessarily eliminate) their meat consumption. As a result of such documentaries, I did end up going purely vegetarian for a short time (about 6 months). I say short time not because I just forgot/gave up/stopped caring, but because I moved abroad shortly thereafter. I moved somewhere where I would have very little control over my food, where vegetarianism isn’t a thing, and where animals are not raised on factory farms! For these reasons, I shifted back to meat eating not only due to need, but also due to the fact that my major concerns were not relevant in that context.

    Since returning to the US, I have also returned to hugely limiting my meat consumption. I do not buy it at the grocery store, I do not cook it, I only (sometimes) eat it when going out to a restaurant or when someone else is cooking for me. I don’t see myself going back to my old ways thinking meat is a required part of every meal any time soon. The environmental argument is also starting to make more of an impact on me and reinforcing this approach. And, yes, this all came from a documentary I watched back in college!

    I am intrigued by the argument that it's morally appropriate to end someone's life for pleasure or convenience but that one cannot take measures to make a profit off of doing so. If it's okay to eat someone, why would it be inappropriate to cause them discomfort, pain, or distress in the process? Presumably the "circle of life" contains all three of those experiences.


    Just to make sure I’m understanding, the “someone” you are referring to is the animals, right? I don’t see this as problematic as, among other reasons, in the wild you find plenty of animals that kill other animals for food. Even those who cannot survive otherwise. This is a natural sequence of nature and how all flora and fauna have evolved to survive. I don’t see this as problematic. Humans are omnivores by nature (our canine teeth prove it).

    And I’m not arguing that it’s wrong to try to make a profit either, but I do believe there are moral limits in how you do so. While I accept that it is natural that animals (including humans) kill each other for food, I do think it can be done in a more humane manner. I do not believe that raising animal under conditions where it is suffering every instant of its existence is humane. I do not believe that frequently happens naturally in the wild either. This is, however, what happens often in factory farming (in order to maximize profit and meet high demand).

    Give animals space, keep them healthy, allow them to enjoy their lives, and then kill them humanely, as needed for food. Doing this would require us as consumers to reduce our demand for meat by eating it less frequently and/or ensure we only purchase humanely raised meat because, otherwise, owners of factory farms do indeed have financial incentive to promote absurd amounts of suffering.

    The "someone" in this instance is an animal, but the argument will apply to anyone we decide we can kill to increase our own enjoyment of life or to make things more convenient for us. I understand the argument that we CAN treat animals humanely before we decide to kill them, what I don't understand is the argument that we have a moral obligation to do so. If someone's own interest in continued life is considered irrelevant in the face of our desire for their death, what is the moral significance of their suffering, pain, or distress in all other stages of their life?
  • 4Phoenix
    4Phoenix Posts: 236 Member
    The Game Changers is a compelling film for those who are on the fence and interested in the research without the gut wrenching film of suffering animals. For those who are not on the fence, you will find your reasons to support your beliefs.
  • JessiBelleW
    JessiBelleW Posts: 831 Member
    One year I was flying somewhere and watched “that sugar film” on the plane. It was a man who’s lady got pregnant and he decided to eat the average sugar intake of the average Australian and basically within 2 months had himself at pre-diabetic insulin resistance and had gained like 20kgs.

    I’m a meat eater and always will be but for me it was a massive wake up call about the rest of my diet and how much filler foods are just crap food. I would say now veggies make up 85% of my diet
  • Althomy
    Althomy Posts: 4 Member
    krose4514 wrote: »
    krose4514 wrote: »
    Contrary to what most people are saying here, I certainly have been influenced by such documentaries. What has influenced me, however, is not the ‘gross’ factor or the nutrition factor either (if I could easily change my eating habits for better nutrition I would have given up sugar long before meat!). It’s also not the pure ethical argument - I see no problem with killing animals for food, I see this as the circle of life.

    What such documentaries DID open my eyes to was how incredibly cruelly animals are treated when raised for meat on factory farms in the US and how this process is largely influenced by desire to profit by meeting the huge demand for meat in the US that far surpasses any true ‘need’ that we have. My clear takeaway from this was that it was very important for Americans to significantly *reduce* (but not necessarily eliminate) their meat consumption. As a result of such documentaries, I did end up going purely vegetarian for a short time (about 6 months). I say short time not because I just forgot/gave up/stopped caring, but because I moved abroad shortly thereafter. I moved somewhere where I would have very little control over my food, where vegetarianism isn’t a thing, and where animals are not raised on factory farms! For these reasons, I shifted back to meat eating not only due to need, but also due to the fact that my major concerns were not relevant in that context.

    Since returning to the US, I have also returned to hugely limiting my meat consumption. I do not buy it at the grocery store, I do not cook it, I only (sometimes) eat it when going out to a restaurant or when someone else is cooking for me. I don’t see myself going back to my old ways thinking meat is a required part of every meal any time soon. The environmental argument is also starting to make more of an impact on me and reinforcing this approach. And, yes, this all came from a documentary I watched back in college!

    I am intrigued by the argument that it's morally appropriate to end someone's life for pleasure or convenience but that one cannot take measures to make a profit off of doing so. If it's okay to eat someone, why would it be inappropriate to cause them discomfort, pain, or distress in the process? Presumably the "circle of life" contains all three of those experiences.


    Just to make sure I’m understanding, the “someone” you are referring to is the animals, right? I don’t see this as problematic as, among other reasons, in the wild you find plenty of animals that kill other animals for food. Even those who cannot survive otherwise. This is a natural sequence of nature and how all flora and fauna have evolved to survive. I don’t see this as problematic. Humans are omnivores by nature (our canine teeth prove it).

    And I’m not arguing that it’s wrong to try to make a profit either, but I do believe there are moral limits in how you do so. While I accept that it is natural that animals (including humans) kill each other for food, I do think it can be done in a more humane manner. I do not believe that raising animal under conditions where it is suffering every instant of its existence is humane. I do not believe that frequently happens naturally in the wild either. This is, however, what happens often in factory farming (in order to maximize profit and meet high demand).

    Give animals space, keep them healthy, allow them to enjoy their lives, and then kill them humanely, as needed for food. Doing this would require us as consumers to reduce our demand for meat by eating it less frequently and/or ensure we only purchase humanely raised meat because, otherwise, owners of factory farms do indeed have financial incentive to promote absurd amounts of suffering.

    I fully agree with you.


    Not all farms are as cruel as some people think as well. (Local farms are generally kind to their livestock.)

    Even some plants, fruits and vegetable are not actually healthy. (Bananas have high chances of disease if not protected.)
  • spyro88
    spyro88 Posts: 472 Member
    Not a particular documentary but I just hear so much generally from friends, social media and news that I follow that eating a lot of meat is bad for the environment. I don't need to watch a graphic documentary to understand that.

    So I have cut down my red meat intake (which is by far the worst), and I eat mostly poultry, fish and vegetarian meals. I'll occasionally have red meat if we are eating out or on holiday.

    It works fine for me, I don't feel deprived and feel like I am doing my (very tiny) bit.
  • spyro88 wrote: »
    Not a particular documentary but I just hear so much generally from friends, social media and news that I follow that eating a lot of meat is bad for the environment. I don't need to watch a graphic documentary to understand that.

    So I have cut down my red meat intake (which is by far the worst), and I eat mostly poultry, fish and vegetarian meals. I'll occasionally have red meat if we are eating out or on holiday.

    It works fine for me, I don't feel deprived and feel like I am doing my (very tiny) bit.

    I think this is the thing for me. I have gradually moved to a more plant based diet because of environmental and social impacts. I do this for the same reason I try to minimise plastic use, recycle, and buy fair trade tea.

    I cannot solve the problems, but I can make choices that have very little impact on my life and have some small positive consequences.
  • saintor1
    saintor1 Posts: 376 Member
    Absolutely. "More plant-based" as opposed as exclusively plant-based.

    I found nutritionfacts.org on youtube back in 2015, after having lost 85lbs. About 80% made sense and I quickly detected the agenda which makes the site name half truths, with cherry pickings here and there.

    Still very relevant in my opinion and I learned a lot. If I have to define my eating would be flexitarian, with a lot of various veggies.