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Has a documentary ever influenced you to eat more plant based?
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I've watched several, and I always walk away feeling very negatively towards the whole plant based way of eating. I know many of the things the docu-dramas present are untrue, exaggerated, or sensationalized so it makes me feel everything they are presenting is exaggerations or lies, but that's also false. So I stopped watching them. Instead I look for specifics.
How are the animals I consume treated? How are the chickens or ducks that lay the eggs I eat treated? How was the cow/sheep/goat that produced the milk for my cheese/baking/butter treated? What about their offspring? Where does my produce come from? How did it get here? Were the farmers, workers, sales people, etc. paid a fair wage and treated fairly well? What land management is being used? What about the seeds and grains I eat?
I think conscious consumption does more to guide people to more sustainable eating long term than scare tactics. I think open conversations about what and why people eat can make huge changes. Let people be flexible. Ease into it. Not only will their digestion be happier, they are more likely to keep pushing and expanding and feel encouraged.9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I do not think that alarmism about the health consequences of animal products is a sustainable way to promote veganism.
This. 100%.
The best way to form your own opinion is to see all sides, and to do your research. I like watching some of those documentaries. They send me off on new avenues of learning, and I do eat a more plant-based diet because of the things I learned after watching them and doing my own research on the subject.
I make my food choices based on Michael Pollan's three simple rules for eating... "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." If you can do that, weight loss dieting becomes a thing of the past and your choices will positively impact the environment while supporting local food producers. Win-win-win.2 -
Not documentaries but I used to watch health and nutrition videos about veganism. I watched mostly Dr.McDougall, Michael Greger and other “experts” on the subject. While they sounded convincing, I don't see how I could apply all of that in my life. I have food intolerance to legumes, nuts, seeds and soy products. I would be very limited if I were to eat plant-based. On top of that I am not a very good cooker, or rather I have never learned how to cook properly.
I don't even know what my meals would look like.1 -
I find that foie gras tastes even better when one of the alarmist pseudo-documentaries from Netflix plays.2
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janejellyroll wrote: »I do not think that alarmism about the health consequences of animal products is a sustainable way to promote veganism.
This. 100%.
The best way to form your own opinion is to see all sides, and to do your research. I like watching some of those documentaries. They send me off on new avenues of learning, and I do eat a more plant-based diet because of the things I learned after watching them and doing my own research on the subject.
I make my food choices based on Michael Pollan's three simple rules for eating... "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." If you can do that, weight loss dieting becomes a thing of the past and your choices will positively impact the environment while supporting local food producers. Win-win-win.
To be fair, eating "not too much" of anything is just another way of describing weight loss dieting. "Too much" is, by definition, more than you need to sustain a healthy weight. The point is how we get there: for me, some form of conscious calorie control is necessary even when I'm eating plants exclusively.4 -
Forks over Knives
The China Study - book
The Blue Zone
Michael Pollan - 3 rules advice1 -
Not a documentary, but Graham Hill's TED Talk about being a weekday vegetarian did motivate me to eat less meat. My family now eats vegetarian at least a couple days a week and it's not difficult. Eggplant parm instead of chicken, for example, and nobody even notices.
Oh, I would notice...
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Yes it did. I did watch these and I went vegetarian for a year and vegan for a few months. I can’t sustain that type of diet long term. So I just try not to eat meat much if possible1
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I have seen a lot of these, plus documentaries, and so on, so this is just from my perspective...
I'm curious about food and food processing more than truly interested in vegetarianism or veganism, and that's why I watched these. I think that anyone who is not at least curious is not going to have any reason at all to watch these.
I mean, why would they? How many vegans are going out there reading about how awesome eating meat is? Pretty much none - there's not a single reason why it would be any different from the other direction, either, IMO.
So in terms of 'reaching anybody,' I think these movies are basically a failure, because they are going to catch all the people who already agree with everything they say, and a few curious people, and that's it. If someone wanted to actually promote a vegan or vegetarian agenda that they thought would make a difference and persuade a lot of meat eaters that they should change their diet, they would need to have something of interest for people of all diets, and then discuss some of plant based diet in the film/series.
As to their arguments? No, they don't persuade me, because they're typically pretty poor arguments, from what I've seen. They are often based on flawed or outright incorrect 'facts' or 'logic.' Many of the good points they DO have (like certain environmental issues, or how poorly some animals are treated) are things that have ways to fix that do not actually involve veganism/vegetarianism.
Like better ethical treatment of animals, or more regulations against mega farms to prevent the environmental problems, in many areas. Not to mention, these complaints about the environmental issues with meat eating often wear thin when the same people ignore many of the other environmental issues that ALSO involve plant based farming.
Food waste, nitrogen fertilizer run off pollution, over use of the land to the point it is steadily increasing salinity levels in our farm lands, insecticides and how they impact our bee population...all of these are major problems with growing vegetables.
The answer to them is not: stop eating veggies and fruits.
It's: we need to find better ways to grow our food instead of acting like some kind of locust species that lays waste to all around us. I think this applies for any type of food eaten, animals or veggies or fruits or whatever is eaten.
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None of them has really influenced my choices. "Documentaries" that are biased from the start are IMHO just as misleading as many of the voodoo doctors out there peddling woo. The whole picture is the whole picture.
I do try to stay somewhat in touch with food sources and consequences. Small family farms die off due to lack of water and the worlds love for avocado's, but is that being reported by the plant based community? Likewise resource use of many foods, both plant and animal based, is just excessive. The impacts on the environment can be changed somewhat with food choices.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Not a documentary, but Graham Hill's TED Talk about being a weekday vegetarian did motivate me to eat less meat. My family now eats vegetarian at least a couple days a week and it's not difficult. Eggplant parm instead of chicken, for example, and nobody even notices.
Oh, I would notice...
Even if you enjoy chicken AND eggplant, it's hard for me to imagine not being able to tell the difference between the two. They're completely different tastes and textures!3 -
angelexperiment wrote: »Yes it did. I did watch these and I went vegetarian for a year and vegan for a few months. I can’t sustain that type of diet long term. So I just try not to eat meat much if possible
To be fair, from your post history you were also often attempting to layer in additional restrictions on top of the veganism, such as vegan keto. The more restrictions you layer on top, the more challenging veganism is going to be.
There is a learning curve with figuring out how to create meals with just plants given how many of us learned to eat and create meals, but after that curve is passed, many people find it to be quite sustainable.4 -
The Game Changers influenced me. I tried it out, and had high blood pressure and gained weight and severe bloating. No more vegan for me. The documentary or movie was inspirational though, but it just didn't resonate with me when I tried it out.0
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It may have discouraged me as I found them to be moralistic and extreme. When I watched Colin Beaven's No Impact Man where he stopped driving cars, stopped subscribing to magazines, no longer eating out, and forced his wife to stop wearing makeup for a year, he came across as an green nut. When I used to watched those organic food documentaries on LINK TV, those vegans had a higher-than-thou behavior towards us meat-eaters, like Americans are killing Mother Earth when all I'm doing is ordering a burger at Carl's Jr. I don't want to have anything to do with people with such a narrow world view.0
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It may have discouraged me as I found them to be moralistic and extreme. When I watched Colin Beaven's No Impact Man where he stopped driving cars, stopped subscribing to magazines, no longer eating out, and forced his wife to stop wearing makeup for a year, he came across as an green nut. When I used to watched those organic food documentaries on LINK TV, those vegans had a higher-than-thou behavior towards us meat-eaters, like Americans are killing Mother Earth when all I'm doing is ordering a burger at Carl's Jr. I don't want to have anything to do with people with such a narrow world view.
Are you turned off by any suggestion that some acts may be preferable to others in their impact to other individuals and society as a whole or is this something that is exclusive to discussions of environmental impact and veganism?
I ask because most people implement some kind of standard of behavior -- holding that one act can be kinder or more responsible or more just than another act. All vegans do is apply this relatively common assessment to behaviors that involve animals (and all environmentalists are doing is applying this relatively common assessment to behaviors that impact the health of the earth overall).1 -
No, I am turned off by the suggestion that somehow I'm destroying the planet when I'm eating burgers and should feel ashamed of it. The principles of whether or not a person should eat meat is a moral one, not an environmental one. Some vegans pontificate that most Americans are destroying the planet when they don't put down that steak.
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No, I am turned off by the suggestion that somehow I'm destroying the planet when I'm eating burgers and should feel ashamed of it. The principles of eating or not eating meat is a moral one, not an environmental one. Some vegans do not apply this common assessment of behaviors and pontificate as though what most Americans are doing is destroying the planet when they don't put down that steak.
So you're open to the argument that some actions are destructive to the earth and should be avoided, you just don't believe that eating factory farmed meat is one of those actions?
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janejellyroll wrote: »No, I am turned off by the suggestion that somehow I'm destroying the planet when I'm eating burgers and should feel ashamed of it. The principles of eating or not eating meat is a moral one, not an environmental one. Some vegans do not apply this common assessment of behaviors and pontificate as though what most Americans are doing is destroying the planet when they don't put down that steak.
So you're open to the argument that some actions are destructive to the earth and should be avoided, you just don't believe that eating factory farmed meat is one of those actions?
Most reputable scientists say there is no harmful threat to the environment to eating meat. Americans have been buying meat from Farmer John's, Jimmy Dean, John Morel, and Tyson Foods for decades without harming the planet.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »No, I am turned off by the suggestion that somehow I'm destroying the planet when I'm eating burgers and should feel ashamed of it. The principles of eating or not eating meat is a moral one, not an environmental one. Some vegans do not apply this common assessment of behaviors and pontificate as though what most Americans are doing is destroying the planet when they don't put down that steak.
So you're open to the argument that some actions are destructive to the earth and should be avoided, you just don't believe that eating factory farmed meat is one of those actions?
Most reputable scientists say there is no harmful threat to the environment to eating meat. Americans have been buying meat from Farmer John's, Jimmy Dean, John Morel, and Tyson Foods for decades without harming the planet.
What is the source for the claim that "most reputable scientists" say that factory farming doesn't impact the environment? Was it some sort of survey?
I think we can have a legitimate debate on to what extent humans can eat meat without harming the earth, but it's clear that many scientists -- including reputable ones -- agree that the current quantity of meat that we eat and the conditions in which factory farmed animals are living are having a negative impact on the environment.
To be clear, not all scientists who are concerned about the environmental impact of factory farming agree that we need to eliminate meat eating. Some of them advocate for eating less meat, while others argue for different methods of meat production. But there is a widespread agreement among environmental scientists -- the ones who would be the experts here, not just generic scientists -- that factory farming does have a negative impact on the environment.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/01/commission-report-great-food-transformation-plant-diet-climate-change/
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6399/eaam5324
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/upshot/beef-health-climate-impact.html
https://earth.stanford.edu/news/qa-meat-health-and-environment
I don't understand the argument that we've been doing this for decades and it hasn't had an impact. Are you denying that climate change is a real thing or are you arguing that it is caused exclusively by other factors?
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