Are carbs the enemy?

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Replies

  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    gisem17 wrote: »
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.

    It is hard to be "eating in a deficit" if you are constantly binging on high carb, high fat foods.

    100% false actually. You can eat in a deficit regardless of how many of a certain macro you eat. You can even “binge” and stay within your calorie goal overall for the week if you saved calories from previous days.

    I think it's true that it is difficult to consistently eat at a deficit if you're constantly binging on high calorie foods (which any food high in both carbohydrates and fat would likely be). Would it be impossible? No, I'm sure we can construct scenarios where someone could still manage to do it. But that path is much harder than the path of creating a deficit when one isn't in the midst of active BED.

    The point is that constant binges have nothing to do with OP's question about a high carbohydrate diet.
  • Dogmom1978
    Dogmom1978 Posts: 1,580 Member
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    gisem17 wrote: »
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.

    It is hard to be "eating in a deficit" if you are constantly binging on high carb, high fat foods.

    100% false actually. You can eat in a deficit regardless of how many of a certain macro you eat. You can even “binge” and stay within your calorie goal overall for the week if you saved calories from previous days.

    I think it's true that it is difficult to consistently eat at a deficit if you're constantly binging on high calorie foods (which any food high in both carbohydrates and fat would likely be). Would it be impossible? No, I'm sure we can construct scenarios where someone could still manage to do it. But that path is much harder than the path of creating a deficit when one isn't in the midst of active BED.

    The point is that constant binges have nothing to do with OP's question about a high carbohydrate diet.

    Yes, I’m aware that the OP says nothing about binging, I’m just pointing out one could binge if one planned it throughout their week, such as for a special event.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    gisem17 wrote: »
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.

    It is hard to be "eating in a deficit" if you are constantly binging on high carb, high fat foods.

    100% false actually. You can eat in a deficit regardless of how many of a certain macro you eat. You can even “binge” and stay within your calorie goal overall for the week if you saved calories from previous days.

    I think it's true that it is difficult to consistently eat at a deficit if you're constantly binging on high calorie foods (which any food high in both carbohydrates and fat would likely be). Would it be impossible? No, I'm sure we can construct scenarios where someone could still manage to do it. But that path is much harder than the path of creating a deficit when one isn't in the midst of active BED.

    The point is that constant binges have nothing to do with OP's question about a high carbohydrate diet.

    Yes, I’m aware that the OP says nothing about binging, I’m just pointing out one could binge if one planned it throughout their week, such as for a special event.

    I think you're using "binge" in the sense of "eating a larger amount of food than one usually does." The person talking about binges seems to be using it in the sense of an eating disorder, a sort of compulsive behavior. For lots of people with this kind of eating disorder, pre-planning a binge isn't something that can really happen and it would be very difficult to bank sufficient calories for the calorie intake typically associated with binges without seriously compromising their health. Keep in mind that the very nature of a binge is going to seriously compromise any effort to accurately estimate calories consumed during the period in question. Additionally, the person does mention "constantly" engaging in this behavior, which would further compromise any efforts to bank calories.

    Are there ways to make the calories work? I mean, maybe, at least in some situations. But anyone who is starving themselves to somehow maintain a deficit while frequently binging (in the ED sense) is going to be on a roller coaster of restriction and likely failing to meet some basic nutritional needs. This would be a pretty rough way to live.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,009 Member
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    I’m just pointing out one could binge if one planned it throughout their week, such as for a special event.

    I don't think advising someone to binge is a good idea...

  • Dogmom1978
    Dogmom1978 Posts: 1,580 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    I’m just pointing out one could binge if one planned it throughout their week, such as for a special event.

    I don't think advising someone to binge is a good idea...

    Literally no one was advising anyone to “binge”. My point was simply that you COULD binge occasionally and STILL lose weight if it is a planned and controlled binge.
  • Dogmom1978
    Dogmom1978 Posts: 1,580 Member
    If you lack control and binge on everything in sight repeatedly, no, I don’t see how you could remain in a deficit.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    If you lack control and binge on everything in sight repeatedly, no, I don’t see how you could remain in a deficit.

    Yes, it's literally a eating disorder. That's the point that was being made above, that frequent binges make it incredibly challenging to manage one's weight.

    It's more complicated than "lacking control." It's a mental illness, one for which there are some treatment options. We wouldn't ask someone who was struggling with other forms of compulsive behavior to just "get some control" because we understand that mental illness isn't chosen, it's not a form of personal failure, and that treatment can make a huge difference in quality of life. Same thing here.
  • Dogmom1978
    Dogmom1978 Posts: 1,580 Member
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    If you lack control and binge on everything in sight repeatedly, no, I don’t see how you could remain in a deficit.

    Yes, it's literally a eating disorder. That's the point that was being made above, that frequent binges make it incredibly challenging to manage one's weight.

    It's more complicated than "lacking control." It's a mental illness, one for which there are some treatment options. We wouldn't ask someone who was struggling with other forms of compulsive behavior to just "get some control" because we understand that mental illness isn't chosen, it's not a form of personal failure, and that treatment can make a huge difference in quality of life. Same thing here.

    What everyone seems to be missing is I was responding to someone else who randomly mentioned carbs and binging together...

    And people CAN binge like once a year for example (I’m guilty on Christmas; I’ll eat everything in sight for the whole day, but I KNOW I’m going to binge, so I store up extra calories ahead of time). Some people binge because of a mental issue that needs to be treated and some people plan binges for special occasions. You are putting a connotation on the word “binge” that ISNT there in my context.

    Binge eating = consuming large quantities of food very quickly, even when not hungry, and to the point of being uncomfortable.

    I agree if someone does this often, they should seek treatment. Again, I was only responding to someone else who claimed that no one could binge and be in a deficit and some other nonsense about carbs being the devil.
  • IronIsMyTherapy
    IronIsMyTherapy Posts: 482 Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    Oh my good lord. Carbs.... ask some people, they tell you carbs make you gain fat and cause diabetes. Fats.... ask some folks and fat gives you heart attacks and makes you gain fat... protein.... ask some folks and it kills your kidneys and gives you cancer. Well, atleast I have fiber. Oh for Christmas sake! The carnivore folks tell me fiber causes guy inflammation and leads to disease.! What the hell is left to put on my plate? Air? Guess we all need to become airitarians! I did not get over eating fruit and vegetables! I will state some correlational evidence that while sugar intake has declined, obesity has continued to rise. Binging on carbs? Hell, its carb/fat combos in an energy dense package people tend to binge on. Sure, you could binge on 5lbs of apples, though not likely. Your next day will be hell as the the binge of 150grams of fiber spray paints a brown mosaic on the inside of your porcelain bowl... god help the person who does this in a time of an toilet paper shortage. Hope they have spare mismatched socks...🤐

    Lmaooooooo! I enjoyed this
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,009 Member
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    I’m just pointing out one could binge if one planned it throughout their week, such as for a special event.

    I don't think advising someone to binge is a good idea...

    Literally no one was advising anyone to “binge”. My point was simply that you COULD binge occasionally and STILL lose weight if it is a planned and controlled binge.

    There is no such thing as a planned and or controlled binge...
  • charmmeth
    charmmeth Posts: 936 Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    Oh my good lord....

    Lmaooooooo! I enjoyed this

    Me too. We need an "LOL" button!
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,432 MFP Moderator
    psychod787 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    The carnivore folks tell me fiber causes guy inflammation

    Is that a euphemism?

    Well.. I'm a guy... but the autocorrect on my phone is a real pain in the ashe...

    Did that stem from Layne's recent IG post? He was just making fun of that carnivore doctor who ignores the prevailing evidence of the benefits from F&V.
  • psychod787
    psychod787 Posts: 4,099 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    The carnivore folks tell me fiber causes guy inflammation

    Is that a euphemism?

    Well.. I'm a guy... but the autocorrect on my phone is a real pain in the ashe...

    Did that stem from Layne's recent IG post? He was just making fun of that carnivore doctor who ignores the prevailing evidence of the benefits from F&V.

    Actually, no. I don't follow Layne on ig. This is just a conversation I had with a practitioner of carnivore. All I can say is I thought low carb zealots were pains....
  • sal10851
    sal10851 Posts: 171 Member
    mariomicro wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Donuts and chips aren't really "carbs." They are foods that are about half carbs and half fat.
    Foods that are mostly just carbs would include most fruit and a plain potato or plain sweet potato, among other things.


    For the purpose of avoiding an insulin spike, it is largely irrelevant whether some foods contain only carbs or both carbs and fat. Dietary carbohydrates will convert immediately into glucose and that will trigger an insulin response, which will eventually trigger fat storage, whether taken with dietary fat or not.

    If carbs are consumed with healthy fats, protein, and fiber the overall glycemic load is very stable. Well timed balanced meals are how I was able to regress my type-2 diabetes. If I change my eating habits the disease will progress. Carbs by themselves will trigger a higher insulin response but excess fat cannot be stored without excess calories present. This misinformation has been prevalent for years so it's importantant to dispell this way of thinking.
  • B_Plus_Effort
    B_Plus_Effort Posts: 311 Member
    no our bodies are too complex to think that simple, cows eat grass, cows are fat
  • Diatonic12
    Diatonic12 Posts: 32,344 Member
    @psychod787 Your posts have been so good these past few days and I don't ever want to forget them. They're that good. You're really somethin'. Special.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,009 Member
    Binging is an eating dis-order...
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    I’m just pointing out one could binge if one planned it throughout their week, such as for a special event.

    I don't think advising someone to binge is a good idea...

    Literally no one was advising anyone to “binge”. My point was simply that you COULD binge occasionally and STILL lose weight if it is a planned and controlled binge.

    There is no such thing as a planned and or controlled binge...

    Disagree? Really? Once you cross the line into binging you are out of control...

    It's because some people are using binge to mean "a really big meal." Obviously you can plan for a very big meal, but it's something very different than a literal binge.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    muszyngr wrote: »
    no our bodies are too complex to think that simple, cows eat grass, cows are fat

    Are they though, in the sense of being obese?

    I mean, obviously cows CAN be obese. But although a regular cow body may read as "fat" to us, are they actually in the condition of having excess weight? They HAVE fat, like we do. That doesn't mean they ARE fat.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,009 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Dogmom1978 wrote: »
    I’m just pointing out one could binge if one planned it throughout their week, such as for a special event.

    I don't think advising someone to binge is a good idea...

    Literally no one was advising anyone to “binge”. My point was simply that you COULD binge occasionally and STILL lose weight if it is a planned and controlled binge.

    There is no such thing as a planned and or controlled binge...

    Disagree? Really? Once you cross the line into binging you are out of control...

    It's because some people are using binge to mean "a really big meal." Obviously you can plan for a very big meal, but it's something very different than a literal binge.

    Absolutely. The words we use matter. A "cheat day" is not necessarily a binge...
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