Are carbs the enemy?
Replies
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Lastchancetochange wrote: »The recommended balances are:
45–65% of calories from carbs
20–35% of calories from fats
10–35% of calories from proteins.
If you log your food, mfp will calculate the percentages for you (the pie chart at the bottom of your daily food diary) but will only tell you if you ahve gone over, not if you are under. It's useful to know that 1g of carbs or protein = 4 cals, whilst 1g of fat = 9 cals.
Some helpful points to consider when deciding macros/diet planning are on the UK's NHS website: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-weight/why-we-need-to-eat-carbs/
and here: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/best-macronutrient-ratio#diet-quality.
Everyone is different, and you need to work out what is best for you. I am someone who generally feels better with higher carbs but I love cheese and if I don't think about this a bit my diet ends up 40% fats, 40% carbs and 20% protein. Calories are what matter for weight loss, so I lost weight fine on that balance; I just started to feel deenergised. However, if all my carbs come from bread I feel deenergised too, so I try to mix them up.
Good luck!
I don't agree with this analysis. It's simplistic. Brocolli is carbs and a pizza is carbs and fat, take the cheese out and carbs plus maybe protein. Brocolli is super healthy and a pizza isn't.
Is that good for weight loss or healthy. No.
So for me the answer is, if you are trying to lose weight ( a.k.a. more than 10 pounds ) you should eliminate cereals ( rice, bread, pasta, flour ) and sugar.
And yes, you can blast carbs on veggies, which is a whole different story.
Anyhow just how I see it.
Thanks
Roberto.
What!!!!! Pizza is bad for you? Whatever will I eat now on Friday and Saturday nights.............broccoli, I guess
just gotta be healthy.6 -
For me, certain carbs, like donuts and chips, are trigger foods cause me to binge eat. I cannot hope to lose weight unless I learn to avoid those foods. I can manage carbs better when they are balanced with proteins and fats.
Donuts and chips aren't really "carbs." They are foods that are about half carbs and half fat.
Foods that are mostly just carbs would include most fruit and a plain potato or plain sweet potato, among other things.9 -
For me, certain carbs, like donuts and chips, are trigger foods cause me to binge eat. I cannot hope to lose weight unless I learn to avoid those foods. I can manage carbs better when they are balanced with proteins and fats.
I would state that those "trigger" foods are not just carbs, but carbs and fats in a calorie dense container. A chip without added oil is a dehydrated potato..... do they trigger you?
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Baked chips. Yuck, I need a bucket. You're so smart.2
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Donuts and chips aren't really "carbs." They are foods that are about half carbs and half fat.
Foods that are mostly just carbs would include most fruit and a plain potato or plain sweet potato, among other things.
For the purpose of avoiding an insulin spike, it is largely irrelevant whether some foods contain only carbs or both carbs and fat. Dietary carbohydrates will convert immediately into glucose and that will trigger an insulin response, which will eventually trigger fat storage, whether taken with dietary fat or not.
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mariomicro wrote: »Donuts and chips aren't really "carbs." They are foods that are about half carbs and half fat.
Foods that are mostly just carbs would include most fruit and a plain potato or plain sweet potato, among other things.
For the purpose of avoiding an insulin spike, it is largely irrelevant whether some foods contain only carbs or both carbs and fat. Dietary carbohydrates will convert immediately into glucose and that will trigger an insulin response, which will eventually trigger fat storage, whether taken with dietary fat or not.
🥱🥱🥱3 -
Carbs are only bad if your diet is consistently based on that food group. If you eat balanced meals with healthy fats, proteins, and fiber the overall glycemic load will not cause a quick spike in blood sugar and insulin responses. Refined carbs such as pastries or sugary drinks are what you should be worried about.
But what if I want quick insulin responses ? with it been the most anti catabolic hormone in the human body?
May come in handy at some point
Yup I frequently spike it on purpose. I'm still waiting for these so called fat gains that come along with it though.6 -
mariomicro wrote: »Donuts and chips aren't really "carbs." They are foods that are about half carbs and half fat.
Foods that are mostly just carbs would include most fruit and a plain potato or plain sweet potato, among other things.
For the purpose of avoiding an insulin spike, it is largely irrelevant whether some foods contain only carbs or both carbs and fat. Dietary carbohydrates will convert immediately into glucose and that will trigger an insulin response, which will eventually trigger fat storage, whether taken with dietary fat or not.
And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.11 -
And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.
It is hard to be "eating in a deficit" if you are constantly binging on high carb, high fat foods.
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And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.
It is hard to be "eating in a deficit" if you are constantly binging on high carb, high fat foods.
It's quite possible to simply eat high carb and high fat foods without binging and without exceeding maintenance calories.12 -
And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.
It is hard to be "eating in a deficit" if you are constantly binging on high carb, high fat foods.
"Binging is the enemy" - not the foods themselves.
Just like when I had a problem with drinking far too much, until you tackle the root cause blaming the trigger only manages the issue rather than resolving it.7 -
And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.
It is hard to be "eating in a deficit" if you are constantly binging on high carb, high fat foods.
Are we talking about someone who is "constantly binging"? I thought we were talking about whether or not these foods had to be completely eliminated (as another poster claimed) in order to lose weight.5 -
And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.
It is hard to be "eating in a deficit" if you are constantly binging on high carb, high fat foods.
"Binging is the enemy" - not the foods themselves.
Just like when I had a problem with drinking far too much, until you tackle the root cause blaming the trigger only manages the issue rather than resolving it.
Gotta agree with this - I can binge on chicken breast (zero carb, low fat) and gain weight. The food isn't the issue - the issue is 'binging'.6 -
mariomicro wrote: »Donuts and chips aren't really "carbs." They are foods that are about half carbs and half fat.
Foods that are mostly just carbs would include most fruit and a plain potato or plain sweet potato, among other things.
For the purpose of avoiding an insulin spike, it is largely irrelevant whether some foods contain only carbs or both carbs and fat.
For the purpose of having a discussion that uses clear enough language so that we can communicate, it is relevant that many foods often (ridiculously) called "carbs" have as much or more fat.
And someone saying they can't avoid overeating "carbs" because donuts and chips hasn't really demonstrated that carbs are the issue, unless they also struggle with plain rice (maybe some do, I can't think of anything less interesting or likely to be overeaten by me), blueberries, and even carrots.
Not sure why you think insulin "spikes" are relevant here (or bad, if one is healthy). Insulin is produced according to the natural function of the body to help nutrients get where they need to go.5 -
Asians in Asian eat a lot of carbs (based on income). There aren't a lot of fat Asians per capita based on population. Carbs aren't the issue. OVERCONSUMPTION IS.SayNoToCakes wrote: »I need honest answers, everywhere I turn, I'm seeing that carbs are evil, that they alone will ruin my weight loss.
My diet is high carb and I would love to reduce that but to completely rule it out, is it the only way? Is it the best way?
I don't know where to start?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
9 -
And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.
It is hard to be "eating in a deficit" if you are constantly binging on high carb, high fat foods.
You can eat a high-ish carb diet and not eat a lot of high carb/high fat foods, let alone binge on them. When I was experimenting with mostly WFPB eating, I was eating a much higher carb diet than normal, but I did not binge and I lost weight (because I also ate at a deficit).
You can also eat some high carb/high fat foods without binging on them. (If the issue is trigger foods and binging, that's something to work on, but obviously lots of people losing weight fit in high carb/high fat foods from time to time. I often had 200 cal of ice cream or gelato when I was losing, if I'd exercised and it fit in my cals.)3 -
Lol, I eat refined carbs DAILY. White rice, white bread, chips, pastries, ice cream, just to name a few. And of course whole foods added in along with them. Have lost 40lbs since March.Carbs are only bad if your diet is consistently based on that food group. If you eat balanced meals with healthy fats, proteins, and fiber the overall glycemic load will not cause a quick spike in blood sugar and insulin responses. Refined carbs such as pastries or sugary drinks are what you should be worried about.
It's NOT the carbs. It's OVERCONSUMPTION. Math still doesn't lie.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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janejellyroll wrote: »And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.
It is hard to be "eating in a deficit" if you are constantly binging on high carb, high fat foods.
Are we talking about someone who is "constantly binging"? I thought we were talking about whether or not these foods had to be completely eliminated (as another poster claimed) in order to lose weight.
Important point. As a reminder, here is the OP:SayNoToCakes wrote: »I need honest answers, everywhere I turn, I'm seeing that carbs are evil, that they alone will ruin my weight loss.
My diet is high carb and I would love to reduce that but to completely rule it out, is it the only way? Is it the best way?
I don't know where to start?
So -- to the person who referenced binging (not the OP), no, no or low carb is not the only way to lose weight, and high carb diets can be healthful and not made up of excessive amounts of low nutrient so-called hyperpalatable high carb/high fat treats.3 -
Pizza is just food. Your body doesn't detect what's "healthy" or "not healthy". It just breaks anything you consume down to it's simplest form and digests it. Whatever is digested gets processed by the body to go where it needs to. If you OVERCONSUME, you gain weight. That's COMMON SENSE. It's why you DON'T need to cut out anything above as along as you're in a calorie deficit. Doesn't matter HOW YOU SEE it since science is much more accurate.Lastchancetochange wrote: »The recommended balances are:
45–65% of calories from carbs
20–35% of calories from fats
10–35% of calories from proteins.
If you log your food, mfp will calculate the percentages for you (the pie chart at the bottom of your daily food diary) but will only tell you if you ahve gone over, not if you are under. It's useful to know that 1g of carbs or protein = 4 cals, whilst 1g of fat = 9 cals.
Some helpful points to consider when deciding macros/diet planning are on the UK's NHS website: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-weight/why-we-need-to-eat-carbs/
and here: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/best-macronutrient-ratio#diet-quality.
Everyone is different, and you need to work out what is best for you. I am someone who generally feels better with higher carbs but I love cheese and if I don't think about this a bit my diet ends up 40% fats, 40% carbs and 20% protein. Calories are what matter for weight loss, so I lost weight fine on that balance; I just started to feel deenergised. However, if all my carbs come from bread I feel deenergised too, so I try to mix them up.
Good luck!
I don't agree with this analysis. It's simplistic. Brocolli is carbs and a pizza is carbs and fat, take the cheese out and carbs plus maybe protein. Brocolli is super healthy and a pizza isn't.
Is that good for weight loss or healthy. No.
So for me the answer is, if you are trying to lose weight ( a.k.a. more than 10 pounds ) you should eliminate cereals ( rice, bread, pasta, flour ) and sugar.
And yes, you can blast carbs on veggies, which is a whole different story.
Anyhow just how I see it.
Thanks
Roberto.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Uh no. Because FAT STORAGE only happens in a SURPLUS. If one is in a deficit, it doesn't happen.mariomicro wrote: »Donuts and chips aren't really "carbs." They are foods that are about half carbs and half fat.
Foods that are mostly just carbs would include most fruit and a plain potato or plain sweet potato, among other things.
For the purpose of avoiding an insulin spike, it is largely irrelevant whether some foods contain only carbs or both carbs and fat. Dietary carbohydrates will convert immediately into glucose and that will trigger an insulin response, which will eventually trigger fat storage, whether taken with dietary fat or not.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
9 -
Not if you have pre-diabetes and/or insulin resistance, which is quite common in obese people.Insulin is produced according to the natural function of the body to help nutrients get where they need to go.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/how-low-carb-diets-work.htmlInsulin is the key player. Too high levels of insulin in the body leads to insulin resistance and then prediabetes followed by type 2 diabetes.
The way to improve prediabetes and type 2 diabetes is to reduce insulin resistance and this can be achieved by reducing carbohydrate (and protein if you have a high protein diet). Reducing carb intake reduces the amount of insulin circulating in the body and this works to reduce insulin resistance.
The reason many people with type 2 diabetes are overweight is because they are producing very high levels of insulin and a key role of insulin is to store body fat.
You’ll see that insulin is therefore responsible for both weight gain and insulin resistance.
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For the AVERAGE person NOT suffering from an illness or disease, it's a NATURAL FUNCTION. At 218lbs and 5'7" I was considered obese. Lost 40lbs eating carbs DAILY. White rice, bread, pasta, pizza, chips, etc. I just made sure I was in a calorie deficit. Voila, 6 months later, 40lbs down.mariomicro wrote: »
Not if you have pre-diabetes and/or insulin resistance, which is quite common in obese people.Insulin is produced according to the natural function of the body to help nutrients get where they need to go.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/how-low-carb-diets-work.htmlInsulin is the key player. Too high levels of insulin in the body leads to insulin resistance and then prediabetes followed by type 2 diabetes.
The way to improve prediabetes and type 2 diabetes is to reduce insulin resistance and this can be achieved by reducing carbohydrate (and protein if you have a high protein diet). Reducing carb intake reduces the amount of insulin circulating in the body and this works to reduce insulin resistance.
The reason many people with type 2 diabetes are overweight is because they are producing very high levels of insulin and a key role of insulin is to store body fat.
You’ll see that insulin is therefore responsible for both weight gain and insulin resistance.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »And yet, the fact that you never want to discuss is that there can be no NET fat gain (insulin spikes or not) as long as the person is eating in a deficit. The body is constantly storing and breaking down fat throughout the day regardless of the mix of food that the person is eating.
It is hard to be "eating in a deficit" if you are constantly binging on high carb, high fat foods.
Are we talking about someone who is "constantly binging"? I thought we were talking about whether or not these foods had to be completely eliminated (as another poster claimed) in order to lose weight.
Important point. As a reminder, here is the OP:SayNoToCakes wrote: »I need honest answers, everywhere I turn, I'm seeing that carbs are evil, that they alone will ruin my weight loss.
My diet is high carb and I would love to reduce that but to completely rule it out, is it the only way? Is it the best way?
I don't know where to start?
So -- to the person who referenced binging (not the OP), no, no or low carb is not the only way to lose weight, and high carb diets can be healthful and not made up of excessive amounts of low nutrient so-called hyperpalatable high carb/high fat treats.
Yes. Someone who is "constantly binging" will find it very hard to maintain a calorie deficit (if not impossible). That person will need to take steps to get their binges under control to manage their weight. Depending on their situation, that may or may not include limiting certain foods, specifically foods that combine high amounts of carbohydrates and fat.
None of that has anything to do with whether or not humans generally capable of successfully managing their weight while eating a high or moderate carbohydrate diet. Lots and lots and lots of us do. There are whole swaths of the world where carbohydrates are a cornerstone of the diet and people maintain healthy weights on a general population level. These are facts that can't be denied, even if one decides the best path for their individual weight management is to limit carbohydrate intake or eliminate consumption of high carbohydrate/high fat foods.
The person who is eating a high carbohydrate diet may be getting a lot of refined grains, they may be eating them rarely or never. They may be eating foods that also include lots of fat, like chips or donuts, or they may be on a lower fat diet. They may be getting plenty of protein or not enough. They may be hitting their micronutrient goals out of the park or they may be not getting enough. They may feel full and satisfied because they're getting so much volume and fiber or they may be miserable and wracked with hunger. "High carb" doesn't tell you much of anything meaningful about the quality of someone's diet. It just tells you they're getting plenty of carbohydrates.5 -
Asians in Asian eat a lot of carbs (based on income). There aren't a lot of fat Asians per capita based on population. Carbs aren't the issue. OVERCONSUMPTION IS.
Yet, despite not being overweight, they are at higher risk of becoming diabetic because they" are more likely to have less muscle and more abdominal fat, which increases insulin resistance".
https://asiandiabetesprevention.org/what-is-diabetes/why-are-asians-higher-risk0 -
mariomicro wrote: »Asians in Asian eat a lot of carbs (based on income). There aren't a lot of fat Asians per capita based on population. Carbs aren't the issue. OVERCONSUMPTION IS.
Yet, despite not being overweight, they are at higher risk of becoming diabetic because they" are more likely to have less muscle and more abdominal fat, which increases insulin resistance".
https://asiandiabetesprevention.org/what-is-diabetes/why-are-asians-higher-risk
this statement makes my eyes rain...... 6 -
mariomicro wrote: »Asians in Asian eat a lot of carbs (based on income). There aren't a lot of fat Asians per capita based on population. Carbs aren't the issue. OVERCONSUMPTION IS.
Yet, despite not being overweight, they are at higher risk of becoming diabetic because they" are more likely to have less muscle and more abdominal fat, which increases insulin resistance".
https://asiandiabetesprevention.org/what-is-diabetes/why-are-asians-higher-risk
Are you saying there is nothing that individuals can do to increase their muscle and reduce abdominal fat BUT limit carbohydrates?9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »mariomicro wrote: »Asians in Asian eat a lot of carbs (based on income). There aren't a lot of fat Asians per capita based on population. Carbs aren't the issue. OVERCONSUMPTION IS.
Yet, despite not being overweight, they are at higher risk of becoming diabetic because they" are more likely to have less muscle and more abdominal fat, which increases insulin resistance".
https://asiandiabetesprevention.org/what-is-diabetes/why-are-asians-higher-risk
Are you saying there is nothing that individuals can do to increase their muscle and reduce abdominal fat BUT limit carbohydrates?
I don't know how you can extrapolate that from what I've said.0 -
mariomicro wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »mariomicro wrote: »Asians in Asian eat a lot of carbs (based on income). There aren't a lot of fat Asians per capita based on population. Carbs aren't the issue. OVERCONSUMPTION IS.
Yet, despite not being overweight, they are at higher risk of becoming diabetic because they" are more likely to have less muscle and more abdominal fat, which increases insulin resistance".
https://asiandiabetesprevention.org/what-is-diabetes/why-are-asians-higher-risk
Are you saying there is nothing that individuals can do to increase their muscle and reduce abdominal fat BUT limit carbohydrates?
I don't know how you can extrapolate that from what I've said.
Maybe because you're consistently advocating for limiting carbohydrates instead of mentioning that there are other ways that people can add muscle and reduce body fat?6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »mariomicro wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »mariomicro wrote: »Asians in Asian eat a lot of carbs (based on income). There aren't a lot of fat Asians per capita based on population. Carbs aren't the issue. OVERCONSUMPTION IS.
Yet, despite not being overweight, they are at higher risk of becoming diabetic because they" are more likely to have less muscle and more abdominal fat, which increases insulin resistance".
https://asiandiabetesprevention.org/what-is-diabetes/why-are-asians-higher-risk
Are you saying there is nothing that individuals can do to increase their muscle and reduce abdominal fat BUT limit carbohydrates?
I don't know how you can extrapolate that from what I've said.
Maybe because you're consistently advocating for limiting carbohydrates instead of mentioning that there are other ways that people can add muscle and reduce body fat?
6
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