Should I bulk?
MrVictus1
Posts: 32 Member
I’m sure many ask this question but I’ve just finished a 12 week cutting plan and have dropped from 88kg to 79kg. I’m 6ft4 and now look really skinny (not fond of this size)
Now going based on some scales that show body fat percentage it says I’m at 17.5%.
Here is what I look like:
Should I start bulking? Or should I continue to cut?
If I were to bulk at this stage and I know you gain a little more fat during the process, would I be able to cut down to a more leaner look still later?
Also I have a bulking plan ready and if I start to bulk should I just start this plan while I transition (increasing calories gradually over few weeks) or should I do a different set of workouts till I hit the surplus of calories?
Hope someone can help here!
Now going based on some scales that show body fat percentage it says I’m at 17.5%.
Here is what I look like:
Should I start bulking? Or should I continue to cut?
If I were to bulk at this stage and I know you gain a little more fat during the process, would I be able to cut down to a more leaner look still later?
Also I have a bulking plan ready and if I start to bulk should I just start this plan while I transition (increasing calories gradually over few weeks) or should I do a different set of workouts till I hit the surplus of calories?
Hope someone can help here!
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Replies
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No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.3
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No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Thank you so much for the reply! Will be glad to start bulking, will adjust my intakes during the phase and hopefully will get the results I’m looking for. 😁
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How many calories are you currently eating? I’d personally go a few hundred over maintenance calories per day while following a good training routine to build muscle as at your height your underweight2
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Currently am at 2300kcal a day. Maint is roughly 2800kcal.matthewbland wrote: »How many calories are you currently eating? I’d personally go a few hundred over maintenance calories per day while following a good training routine to build muscle as at your height your underweight
How steady should I increase the calories? 100 or 200 extra day?
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No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.8 -
I would start by reading the stickied posts at the top of the forum:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10300326/most-helpful-posts-goal-gaining-weight-must-reads#latest
Full of the basics/very useful information. After that, find a proven lifting program to follow (also in the link above).
I'd suggest starting by finding a good lifting program and then after following it decide on what you want to do depending on the gains/results you're seeing.3 -
errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Absolutely.
To expand OP, do you lift? If so, what is your program and how long have you been lifting?
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errollmaclean wrote: »I would start by reading the stickied posts at the top of the forum:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10300326/most-helpful-posts-goal-gaining-weight-must-reads#latest
Full of the basics/very useful information. After that, find a proven lifting program to follow (also in the link above).
I'd suggest starting by finding a good lifting program and then after following it decide on what you want to do depending on the gains/results you're seeing.
Thank you for the advise, I read the article and was very helpful!
I have a plan ready it’s just the transitioning from the lower calories to the surplus and how quickly I should do it.0 -
errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Absolutely.
To expand OP, do you lift? If so, what is your program and how long have you been lifting?
I do lift, not a lot of weight in my opinion but I started in February following a 12 week plan, then went on to a 12 week cutting workout plan and now I have a bulking plan focusing on strength and hypertrophy ready.
Just stuck on the transitioning from cut to bulk and how many calories I need to be aiming for.0 -
errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.0 -
I agree lean bulk is key! Calorie surplus in the means of good macros take it slow and watch em grow3
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errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Absolutely.
To expand OP, do you lift? If so, what is your program and how long have you been lifting?
I do lift, not a lot of weight in my opinion but I started in February following a 12 week plan, then went on to a 12 week cutting workout plan and now I have a bulking plan focusing on strength and hypertrophy ready.
Just stuck on the transitioning from cut to bulk and how many calories I need to be aiming for.
https://youtu.be/DjEnkzhz5T4 3 -
errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Absolutely.
To expand OP, do you lift? If so, what is your program and how long have you been lifting?
I do lift, not a lot of weight in my opinion but I started in February following a 12 week plan, then went on to a 12 week cutting workout plan and now I have a bulking plan focusing on strength and hypertrophy ready.
Just stuck on the transitioning from cut to bulk and how many calories I need to be aiming for.https://youtu.be/DjEnkzhz5T4
Thank you that was quite the insightful video, was wondering about a maintenance calorie intake.
Looks like I’ll gradually increase my calories to maintenance again from these lower calories and then add increase only a bit over and see how that goes.
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errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Absolutely.
To expand OP, do you lift? If so, what is your program and how long have you been lifting?
I do lift, not a lot of weight in my opinion but I started in February following a 12 week plan, then went on to a 12 week cutting workout plan and now I have a bulking plan focusing on strength and hypertrophy ready.
Just stuck on the transitioning from cut to bulk and how many calories I need to be aiming for.https://youtu.be/DjEnkzhz5T4
Thank you that was quite the insightful video, was wondering about a maintenance calorie intake.
Looks like I’ll gradually increase my calories to maintenance again from these lower calories and then add increase only a bit over and see how that goes.
So let's define something so you have the full picture. Greg Douchette didn't get his physique naturally or by "main-gaining" which BTW is him trying to rebrand recomposition. He got his through hard training, bulking/cutting and drugs. It's ok that he did that, but you need to understand the full context. Second, is scenario's were completely made up.
Let me ask this because it hasn't been asked yet. What is your actual goal both short and long? What is the time frame for that goal? And more specifically, how patient are you?
Let's start with recomposition since it's been brought up, because I have direct experience and have trained people using this method. If your goal is to stay in the low 170s but just a leaner, slightly more muscle version and you have patience, than it's probably a good place to start. It does take time and you have to be consistent for 6-24 months. At that point, you will still be in the low 170s but leaner, given you have a solid well structured lifting routine and you are running high enough protein (160-200g/day). An example of a good program could be like the ones in the below link. I like PHUL and PHAT but Jeff Nippard also has good programs. If you look at his recomposition video, it will even discuss deficits and surpluses, which is still cutting/bulking to maximizing your ability to gain muscle through training and high protein.
I think one of your biggest issues is that you are under muscled. I think in a few years, if you are consistently lifting, you can have really good muscle development... And yes, I did say years.
Now, if your end goal is to be in the 180-190lb range with a good muscle base, than you can't do that really with recomposition. At some point, you will need a surplus, albeit, it could be 100-200 calories to minimize fat loss. This would be a lean gain approach. Keep in mind that bulking doesn't mean going bear mode. It, also, doesn't mean that you need to eat a bunch of junk food. If you take a moderate approach you will not have your health go to hell. It's just false. A good lean bulk, like in the second link, can be very effective.
In general, without knowing your full goals, it might be worth cutting a bit more, which running a good lifting program and a small surplus. Once you get lean enough, running lean bulk would probably be ideal. This would likely be your fastest approach.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
https://youtu.be/M4K0s792wAU
https://youtu.be/8BKbu_s8p1Q 5 -
errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.
I would recommend you do a bit more research. Bulking and cutting still is a thing. The issue is there is a subset of people who still want to be forever lean or the other set up people, who are just as uneducated, and think you need to go bear mode when bulking. There are plenty of solid nutritional strategies to prevent a ton of fat gains if you bulk. There are a ton of examples of that on this forum. There are also people who have successfully recomp'ed but most of them aren't very big, which may be a part of the OPs goals. I know for me, recomp or main'gaining won't work for me. I am already smaller than my goal weight and I am fairly lean.5 -
errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Absolutely.
To expand OP, do you lift? If so, what is your program and how long have you been lifting?
I do lift, not a lot of weight in my opinion but I started in February following a 12 week plan, then went on to a 12 week cutting workout plan and now I have a bulking plan focusing on strength and hypertrophy ready.
Just stuck on the transitioning from cut to bulk and how many calories I need to be aiming for.https://youtu.be/DjEnkzhz5T4
Thank you that was quite the insightful video, was wondering about a maintenance calorie intake.
Looks like I’ll gradually increase my calories to maintenance again from these lower calories and then add increase only a bit over and see how that goes.
So let's define something so you have the full picture. Greg Douchette didn't get his physique naturally or by "main-gaining" which BTW is him trying to rebrand recomposition. He got his through hard training, bulking/cutting and drugs. It's ok that he did that, but you need to understand the full context. Second, is scenario's were completely made up.
Let me ask this because it hasn't been asked yet. What is your actual goal both short and long? What is the time frame for that goal? And more specifically, how patient are you?
Let's start with recomposition since it's been brought up, because I have direct experience and have trained people using this method. If your goal is to stay in the low 170s but just a leaner, slightly more muscle version and you have patience, than it's probably a good place to start. It does take time and you have to be consistent for 6-24 months. At that point, you will still be in the low 170s but leaner, given you have a solid well structured lifting routine and you are running high enough protein (160-200g/day). An example of a good program could be like the ones in the below link. I like PHUL and PHAT but Jeff Nippard also has good programs. If you look at his recomposition video, it will even discuss deficits and surpluses, which is still cutting/bulking to maximizing your ability to gain muscle through training and high protein.
I think one of your biggest issues is that you are under muscled. I think in a few years, if you are consistently lifting, you can have really good muscle development... And yes, I did say years.
Now, if your end goal is to be in the 180-190lb range with a good muscle base, than you can't do that really with recomposition. At some point, you will need a surplus, albeit, it could be 100-200 calories to minimize fat loss. This would be a lean gain approach. Keep in mind that bulking doesn't mean going bear mode. It, also, doesn't mean that you need to eat a bunch of junk food. If you take a moderate approach you will not have your health go to hell. It's just false. A good lean bulk, like in the second link, can be very effective.
In general, without knowing your full goals, it might be worth cutting a bit more, which running a good lifting program and a small surplus. Once you get lean enough, running lean bulk would probably be ideal. This would likely be your fastest approach.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1https://youtu.be/M4K0s792wAUhttps://youtu.be/8BKbu_s8p1Q
That’s a lot to think about, my goal is to put on a good lean muscle mass, the typical beach bod as it were, the chisled look and I don’t want to look this skinny.
I Workout in the mornings on just a cup of coffee.
I have no time frame really and know it will take quite some time to get the results I’m looking for.
Diet I’ve gotten down fairly well and consistently get around 200g protein each day (about 100g from whey protein)
Currently on a 30p/50c/20f macros split At 2300kcal.
With serenity job and working out 5 days a week with 3 30 min stationary bike cardio sessions, I believe my maint is 2800.
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errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.
I'd recommend reading the stickied posts at the top of each forum section. These posts will give you a grasp of the basics so that you're not pointing people in the wrong direction.
Again, bulking and cutting, isn't what you think it is. It's not reckless abandon and then starving yourself. It's controlled calorie surplus to allow for maximized muscle gains, followed by a controlled calorie deficit to lose bodyfat while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible. If done correctly you can gain muscle faster than with a recomposition (main-gaining isn't a thing). That's why it exists, because it's faster than recomp. There's also a huge difference in muscle gains between someone who's natural and someone who's on gear/steroids.
The body can't just make muscle from nothing, it takes calories. Either from fat stores or extra calories.6 -
What's your lifting plan? A good structured program will help make sure you're not spinning your wheels.
Start your lifting and calibrate based on your results. Eventually you'll be able to decide what you want to do with your calories based on the results you're getting. I don't think you need to worry about a bulk/cut right now. Just focus on a good solid lifting program. It would be a fine time to switch to maintenance for a while. Get your lifting program dialed in, get your form on point, give it a few months. Really dive into the past posts on the forums here, as they're full of good info and most questions have already been asked dozens of times. You'll also get to know who is posting quality reliable information.
Your calories really depend a lot on you specifically. Do you need a break mentally? Feeling gassed or run down all the time? Not making gains? Getting sick? Do you mind gaining body fat? Do you hate cutting? Are you wanting to make more strength gains? All reasons you might want to adjust your calories. The longer you're at it and the more you do the more information you'll have to make decisions. You're going to have to try a few different things and have a few failures before you find what works for you specifically. Eventually you're going to need a calorie surplus (bulk) to add muscle. The amount of calories will depend on what you find fits your personal goals.
Personally I've only tried one intentional bulk and psychologically it wasn't for me as I couldn't handle gaining body fat. That being said I already had a good base of muscle to work with since I had been lifting heavy and unintentionally bulking for years before finding MFP and learning how calories and macros worked. I know I'm sacrificing gains, but I'm comfortable with that and that's what works the best for me.1 -
errollmaclean wrote: »What's your lifting plan? A good structured program will help make sure you're not spinning your wheels.
Start your lifting and calibrate based on your results. Eventually you'll be able to decide what you want to do with your calories based on the results you're getting. I don't think you need to worry about a bulk/cut right now. Just focus on a good solid lifting program. It would be a fine time to switch to maintenance for a while. Get your lifting program dialed in, get your form on point, give it a few months. Really dive into the past posts on the forums here, as they're full of good info and most questions have already been asked dozens of times. You'll also get to know who is posting quality reliable information.
Your calories really depend a lot on you specifically. Do you need a break mentally? Feeling gassed or run down all the time? Not making gains? Getting sick? Do you mind gaining body fat? Do you hate cutting? Are you wanting to make more strength gains? All reasons you might want to adjust your calories. The longer you're at it and the more you do the more information you'll have to make decisions. You're going to have to try a few different things and have a few failures before you find what works for you specifically. Eventually you're going to need a calorie surplus (bulk) to add muscle. The amount of calories will depend on what you find fits your personal goals.
Personally I've only tried one intentional bulk and psychologically it wasn't for me as I couldn't handle gaining body fat. That being said I already had a good base of muscle to work with since I had been lifting heavy and unintentionally bulking for years before finding MFP and learning how calories and macros worked. I know I'm sacrificing gains, but I'm comfortable with that and that's what works the best for me.
Thank you this has been very useful, so I’ve started my bulking workout plan today, the first three weeks are 4 days full body with low reps longer rest times 3sets 6reps at 65%rm (still got to figure my 1RM properly), my aim is going to do the workouts and focus on form.
I’m gonna stick with the full body workouts by extending this first 3 weeks while increasing calories just to maintenance then gonna sit at my maintenance for a a month then see how I look and feel from there, then after that I’m going to continue the bulk plan but with a slight surplus not more than 100-200 and keep to that till the end of the plan and see what the results are by the end.
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Sounds like a good strategy to test things out. By the end you'll have more information to decide on the best direction. There's a post in the original link I posted "Which lifting program is the best for you?", which is worth a read as well.3
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errollmaclean wrote: »errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.
I'd recommend reading the stickied posts at the top of each forum section. These posts will give you a grasp of the basics so that you're not pointing people in the wrong direction.
Again, bulking and cutting, isn't what you think it is. It's not reckless abandon and then starving yourself. It's controlled calorie surplus to allow for maximized muscle gains, followed by a controlled calorie deficit to lose bodyfat while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible. If done correctly you can gain muscle faster than with a recomposition (main-gaining isn't a thing). That's why it exists, because it's faster than recomp. There's also a huge difference in muscle gains between someone who's natural and someone who's on gear/steroids.
The body can't just make muscle from nothing, it takes calories. Either from fat stores or extra calories.
No. Bulking and cutting is for drug users. It's not for people who want to stay healthy. You don't need to go on yo-yo diets to get muscular and lean. It's not healthy for the body or mind. Just eat healthy and maintain a healthy weight. A normal adult male can really only put on 5-10 lbs of muscle a year at most if he is really dedicated. For women it's more like 5 lbs at most. It makes no sense to be eating 200-400 calories additionally a day to gain muscle. That's overkill and most these bros out there call for way more than that. Based on the 5-10 lb/year, if you do the math, the additional calories you would need to eat daily would be like 10-20 calories more. It makes no sense what all these bros keep pushing on their website, other than they are repeating what some roidhead said.
http://www.stormbodyfitness.com/why-bulking-just-doesnt-work/
https://propanefitness.com/optimalproteinmyth/0 -
tictoerest wrote: »errollmaclean wrote: »errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.
I'd recommend reading the stickied posts at the top of each forum section. These posts will give you a grasp of the basics so that you're not pointing people in the wrong direction.
Again, bulking and cutting, isn't what you think it is. It's not reckless abandon and then starving yourself. It's controlled calorie surplus to allow for maximized muscle gains, followed by a controlled calorie deficit to lose bodyfat while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible. If done correctly you can gain muscle faster than with a recomposition (main-gaining isn't a thing). That's why it exists, because it's faster than recomp. There's also a huge difference in muscle gains between someone who's natural and someone who's on gear/steroids.
The body can't just make muscle from nothing, it takes calories. Either from fat stores or extra calories.
No. Bulking and cutting is for drug users. It's not for people who want to stay healthy. You don't need to go on yo-yo diets to get muscular and lean. It's not healthy for the body or mind. Just eat healthy and maintain a healthy weight. A normal adult male can really only put on 5-10 lbs of muscle a year at most if he is really dedicated. For women it's more like 5 lbs at most. It makes no sense to be eating 200-400 calories additionally a day to gain muscle. That's overkill and most these bros out there call for way more than that. Based on the 5-10 lb/year, if you do the math, the additional calories you would need to eat daily would be like 10-20 calories more. It makes no sense what all these bros keep pushing on their website, other than they are repeating what some roidhead said.
http://www.stormbodyfitness.com/why-bulking-just-doesnt-work/
https://propanefitness.com/optimalproteinmyth/
That is terrible advice given the OPs goals. It's perfectly healthy for non drug users to bulk. If they stayed at their current weight, he would only be a slightly more muscular version of his current self. That is often not what people want. If i took your advice, I would never reach my goals.2 -
@psuLemon No, I'm referencing the cycle of "bulking and cutting". Not bulking alone. Or cutting alone.0
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tictoerest wrote: »@psuLemon No, I'm referencing the cycle of "bulking and cutting". Not bulking alone. Or cutting alone.
I stand by my statement. You are overgeneralizating without considering the factors. A good recomp can take years and consistency. It's often something people cannot sustain. The most successful recomps I have seen have taken 2 years. Aint no body got time for that *kitten*. And even then, you have to be ok with being a similar size. I know that i will need to get to the 150s to be lean enough for a full 6/8 eight pack. I can't recomp my way to gain 10-15 lbs of muscle and get up to the 170s. I can however lean bulk with a focus on whole foods to get there. Below is where i am at. I sat at 170 for years (with weight fluctuation) for years without big progress.
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tictoerest wrote: »errollmaclean wrote: »errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.
I'd recommend reading the stickied posts at the top of each forum section. These posts will give you a grasp of the basics so that you're not pointing people in the wrong direction.
Again, bulking and cutting, isn't what you think it is. It's not reckless abandon and then starving yourself. It's controlled calorie surplus to allow for maximized muscle gains, followed by a controlled calorie deficit to lose bodyfat while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible. If done correctly you can gain muscle faster than with a recomposition (main-gaining isn't a thing). That's why it exists, because it's faster than recomp. There's also a huge difference in muscle gains between someone who's natural and someone who's on gear/steroids.
The body can't just make muscle from nothing, it takes calories. Either from fat stores or extra calories.
No. Bulking and cutting is for drug users. It's not for people who want to stay healthy. You don't need to go on yo-yo diets to get muscular and lean. It's not healthy for the body or mind. Just eat healthy and maintain a healthy weight. A normal adult male can really only put on 5-10 lbs of muscle a year at most if he is really dedicated. For women it's more like 5 lbs at most. It makes no sense to be eating 200-400 calories additionally a day to gain muscle. That's overkill and most these bros out there call for way more than that. Based on the 5-10 lb/year, if you do the math, the additional calories you would need to eat daily would be like 10-20 calories more. It makes no sense what all these bros keep pushing on their website, other than they are repeating what some roidhead said.
http://www.stormbodyfitness.com/why-bulking-just-doesnt-work/
https://propanefitness.com/optimalproteinmyth/
Can we see your progress pics please ?
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@psuLemon Maybe so, but I think most the bulking calculators I find on the web are way off. Sure, you need to eat a little more when you begin a weight training program. You're body requires that because it needs more energy, but how much more is the question? I think that's the part that takes some time to learn. Too much and you're just adding a lot of fat. Too little and you may not progress as fast. Me thinks this is too individualized and maybe just focus on healthier food and go from there.
One thing, it's much easier to eat less versus having to exercise calories off. If you error on the less side, it will be easier to just add more calories to your plate versus down the road having to lose a ton of body fat that will also strip away muscle. Also I was reading the higher body fat you are the slower it is to gain muscle.
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tictoerest wrote: »@psuLemon Maybe so, but I think most the bulking calculators I find on the web are way off. Sure, you need to eat a little more when you begin a weight training program. You're body requires that because it needs more energy, but how much more is the question? I think that's the part that takes some time to learn. Too much and you're just adding a lot of fat. Too little and you may not progress as fast. Me thinks this is too individualized and maybe just focus on healthier food and go from there.
One thing, it's much easier to eat less versus having to exercise calories off. If you error on the less side, it will be easier to just add more calories to your plate versus down the road having to lose a ton of body fat that will also strip away muscle. Also I was reading the higher body fat you are the slower it is to gain muscle.
I am starting to think you really don't understand the concepts of actual bulking and cutting. There are many people in this forum alone who have actually bulked with little fat gains. Given proper nutrition, a small to moderate surplus, and proper training, you can make really good gains without impacting your health. Its not just going all ham and consuming 5k calories.
And i find it much easier to eat more. Some of us are naturally big eaters. This was a smaller dinner tonight. Its 6 eggs, 1/2 bell pepper, 1/3 onion, sour cream, shredded cheese and salsa. On top of that, i also had a protein milkshake.
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errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.
I started lifting about 1980. I've ran a lot of bulks in those 40+ years of lifting and I don't have any of the issues you claim.
Care to cite a source?4 -
errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Preach3 -
UPDATE:
So after a 12 week bulk following a plan that works around 70-90% of 1RM focusing on strength and hypertrophy, this is the result:
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