Help keep losing muscle and gaining fat slow metabolism

BlueDesire89

I am at a loss here and not a good one. I was getting so annoyed at all my hard work and watching people stuff themselves with junk yet still look defined. Here i am watching every morsel and cant seem to change. So i spent every last cent of my savings and got a rmr test and a dexa scan well wasnt that an eye opener.
Dexa scan says im 40% bodyfat but im healthy bmi what??? I lift heavy i count every bit of macros i eat adequate protein but according to this i was over eating in protein. So i go get my rmr and find out my metabolism is god dam slow by -33% something is wrong here. My rmr is 994 calories it literally said to lose weight i had to eat 994 calories. All this time i have been over eating based on stupid calculators overestimating. I go to the doctor get every test under the sun. NOTHING THEY FIND NOTHING but guess what i dont tolerate carbs properly. I knew that. I bought a lumen device to test my rer to increase my metabolic flexibility. I change my workout to 3 days full body weights heavy last rep hard 3 sets/8-10 reps not to gain but to maintain and encourage my body to keep what im using. I do very short HIIT on same day after weights (only time i can do it no exceptions physically impossible to do on other days and or later in day, single mum to autistic child) other 2 days spin at home on spin bike dye to daughter being home cant go anywhere.

I spend 6 months working hard i adjusted macros and ate protein according to my dexa scan composition. I lost only 1 kg thats it over 6 months so i thought hey i must have lost fat and gained muscle due to proper nutrients and adequate plan. I decide to get another dexa scan to see my success and make sure im heading in the right direction. I got my results and cried for 2 weeks even while going back to the gym and still working hard. Wtf i had lost 900grams of muscle and gained 100grams of fat. How the hell is this possible???

I have no medical condition according to doctors my bmi is great they dont care im a walking sack of lard. Im so soft and squishy yet i can lift heavier that 30% of the guys in my gym. I cant eat more or i gain weight i cant lift more and more cardio seems counter productive and can cause high cortisol on the body. What is going on. How much do i eat? I mean based on my rmr a really high met workout for me literally uses barely any calories, my resting heart rate is 49 to 55 bpm depending on how hard i workout the day before if i go above 55 i know i need longer rest. I have spoken to a endocrinologist and no my rmr will never increase. The thermal affect is so minute from food it makes no difference and muscle gain will only add approx 100 -150 cals extra but as you know you cant gain muscle without gaining some fat. 40% already is to risky to gain more. So please what do i do. Im 161cm short, 61.3kgs 40yo female and workout 5 days but only very minimal on 2 of those days or i dont recover well. I just want my fat in kg reduced not just percentage. I mean yes you can gain 5 kgs of muscle and fat % goes down but fat mass hasnt therefore still unhealthy.

lisachmitchell

How incredibly frustrating. I’m short (5’1”) and I’m finding it hard to get leaner and my doc said it was hormonally related as I’m 52. But I’m damn stubborn and keep pushing anyway. Running has helped me the most in terms of leaning out. But I hear your awesome dedication to health and fitness and your frustration as your body just isn’t cooperating. Not sure I have any words of wisdom. Just coming alongside to hear you.

yirara

To be honest, these numbers, both bodyfat and BMR sound very wrong. Did you go to a lab that is known for proper results or is it a Doctor Nick?

Btw, I got over 40% bodyfat on a resistence thingy. It was set up such that it seems likely this machine took my boob fat into the calculation. That's one reason. Plus I'm still waiting for an appointment to see someone for a connective tissue disorder. Several people in a patient group said they commonly get odd fat measurements that make no sense.

Also, under what conditions were those tests done? When did you eat last at the moment of the test? Were you dehydrated? Did you fast the days before? All those things can influence the results.

Quite honestly, there are variations within BMR, but they normally not that big. If your body was using so little energy when resting then your organs would scale back at running properly.

How tall and heavy are you at the moment? What is your age? What's your goal?

Lietchi

Even Dexa scans have a margin of error, especially at different levels of hydration. I find it highly unlikely that you have lost 1kg and 900 grams of that being muscle mass.
Do you take progress pictures? Do your clothes still fit the same?

As for your metabolism: how many calories have you been eating on average over those 6 months between scans?

Dogmom1978

You repeatedly talk about how heavy you lift, but how many reps/sets? Plus are you trying to lose, gain or maintain your weight? Gaining muscle while eating in a deficit is challenging and more likely for newbies. A HIIT workout directly following weights is not the best plan if you’re trying to gain muscle either.

And sorry for the obvious question: but you are using a food scale and weighing everything you eat right?

sijomial

You have some misunderstandings....

"My rmr is 994 calories it literally said to lose weight i had to eat 994 calories"

No it doesn't mean that at all - you aren't resting all day so your RMR is just one (estimated) component of your TDEE. Your daily activity and exercise are on top of your RMR plus the minor contribution from TEF.
It's your TDEE that is your maintenance level.

"but as you know you cant gain muscle without gaining some fat."

That's false - especially when you have plenty of bodyfat as an energy source. You only gain body fat in a calorie surplus and there is zero need for you to switch to a surplus.

What do you do?
Eat at a small calorie deficit from your maintenance level (whether using the MyFitnessPal method or a TDEE calculation), continue to train and elevate your daily activity too, adjust your calories to result in a slow rate of weight loss. If you think you have cortisol issues then don't do HIIT - it's a small calorie burner and causes fatigue and recovery issues plus interference with your lifting performance and recovery. Moderate intensity cardio of a type you enjoy (or can endure!) would be a better choice IMHO.

I would also generate a heathy scepticism of estimates. Although DEXA can be good some clinics do very weird things with the data they gather.

nooshi713

How many calories are you eating? Do you weigh your food?

claireychn074

I’d also like to know how they calculated your “slow” metabolism. I’m not being unkind here, but metabolisms rarely differ by that much - unless you have a medical condition, and by that I mean a diagnosed endocrine disorder. There are people in here with Haishimotos and thyroid disease and they do still lose weight - albeit maybe at a slower rate.

The questions about using a food scale and the weights you lift are really important here. Sometimes tiny mistakes can make a huge difference in weight loss (like things which are really calorie dense and not quite accounted for properly or too high an estimate on exercise calories).

BlueDesire89

Ok so to make things clear i did a professional dexa scan where i had to lay in a machine for 20 minutes that scanned my entire body. It has a 99.8% accuracy rate. No eating for 12 hours before. Yes i am 40% fat.

Yes the rmr was not a calculation it was a machine i had to breath into for 28 mins no exercise for 24 hours before (i had not worked out for 48 hrs).
I had to fast for 14 hours and was allowed water upto 1 hour before. No moving no talking.

My rmr was 994 plus approx 298 for daily activities so cleaning making food etc. Add those together and thats what i have to eat to maintain wait. Now yes you are meant to adjust for exercise but according to my rmr test approx 30 mins if high mets only burns a whooping 114 cals for my metabolism. Now to create a deficit you are meant to eat a consistent deficit. Eg 500 cals a day less. For me that is ridiculously low cals based on test (i have had this test done 4 times now and it only changed once because i lost muscle so my rmr went down again).
You can choose for your deficit to be entirely from your workouts (very inaccurate and risky did this for years but impossible to calculate what im burning if all calculators are wrong due to my rmr test).
Or eat a deficit, it actually says on the sheet of paper maintance, weightloss, medically supervised weightloss. And under weightloss based on my clinical very expensive very accurate test i had to eat between 1000-994 cals to lose weight.

Do not tell me its wrong because i have has this argument with multiple professionals and thats why i had the test done multiple times. Its not wrong.

My reps and sets are in original post you just gave up reading. So is my height weight and age. Reread it. My workout was written up for me by s bikini comp trainer i make the decorated bikinis for comps so i have had lots of knowledge imparted to me, most believe i have a medical condition.

My food is clean i eat mostly things you cant mess up in weighing and accurate calculating. I saw a nutritionist she said i eat very well but hates my rmr results and knows my difficulty. I do not undercount and i have s calibrated scale from said nutritionist.

BlueDesire89

Argue with this clinical test where i had to breath into a machine. Lots of requirements before test could be performed.

Dogmom1978

It doesn’t matter how “clean” you think you eat, you can ABSOLUTELY eat more calories than you need eating ANY food. Spend some of your expendable income on a food scale. Less than $30 for one. Start weighing your food and see how many calories you REALLY EAT. Are you using this calibrated scale to weigh foods or yourself? That’s super unclear FYI.

Again, HIIT post weight lifting, not smart. You will likely burn muscle. You’d be better off with lower intensity cardio post weight lifting. You never did say what your weights are that you lifting, you just say “heavy”. Well heavy to you and me are likely to be wildly different weights.

musicfan68

So you don't weigh your food? Eating clean you can still eat way more calories than you realize. Something has to be off somewhere.

BlueDesire89

Sijomial just for you, because you misunderstand. I know what im talking about. SEE IT LITERALLY SAYS IT.

brianpperkins131

BlueDesire89 wrote: »

Ok so to make things clear i did a professional dexa scan where i had to lay in a machine for 20 minutes that scanned my entire body. It has a 99.8% accuracy rate. No eating for 12 hours before. Yes i am 40% fat.

Yes the rmr was not a calculation it was a machine i had to breath into for 28 mins no exercise for 24 hours before (i had not worked out for 48 hrs).
I had to fast for 14 hours and was allowed water upto 1 hour before. No moving no talking.

My rmr was 994 plus approx 298 for daily activities so cleaning making food etc. Add those together and thats what i have to eat to maintain wait. Now yes you are meant to adjust for exercise but according to my rmr test approx 30 mins if high mets only burns a whooping 114 cals for my metabolism. Now to create a deficit you are meant to eat a consistent deficit. Eg 500 cals a day less. For me that is ridiculously low cals based on test (i have had this test done 4 times now and it only changed once because i lost muscle so my rmr went down again).
You can choose for your deficit to be entirely from your workouts (very inaccurate and risky did this for years but impossible to calculate what im burning if all calculators are wrong due to my rmr test).
Or eat a deficit, it actually says on the sheet of paper maintance, weightloss, medically supervised weightloss. And under weightloss based on my clinical very expensive very accurate test i had to eat between 1000-994 cals to lose weight.

Do not tell me its wrong because i have has this argument with multiple professionals and thats why i had the test done multiple times. Its not wrong.

My reps and sets are in original post you just gave up reading. So is my height weight and age. Reread it. My workout was written up for me by s bikini comp trainer i make the decorated bikinis for comps so i have had lots of knowledge imparted to me, most believe i have a medical condition.

My food is clean i eat mostly things you cant mess up in weighing and accurate calculating. I saw a nutritionist she said i eat very well but hates my rmr results and knows my difficulty. I do not undercount and i have s calibrated scale from said nutritionist.

"Most believe I have a medical condition" from non-medical people .... yet your 1st post says doctors state you don't have a medical condition. Which is it? It matters.

BlueDesire89

Clearly people here just want to argue. And when you have proof and documentation because their brain can't comprehend the unexplainable they immediately dismiss hard copy proof as “has to be *kitten*”. Dont you think i have had this talk with professionals. My endocrinologist was adamant i had something but she hugged me with absolute sincere shock when all tests said healthy as an ox. She said there are people who are just born like this and its not fair.

yirara

So how do they know your maintenance calories considering you were resting during the test? You can easily get higher activity burns by moving more. Heck, even fidgeting burns calories! And all this has nothing to do with this measurement. That's what you do

musicfan68

Most of us have been here for years, and through that experience, we find that there is almost always something off with counting calories, or calorie burn. That is why we are skeptical, and you are so argumentative that that raises flags for people as well. We aren't trying to argue just to argue with you. Again, most of us have been at this for a long time and see new people come on with issues such as yours and it is usually something simple like not measuring your food, or a miscalculation of some sort. For what it's worth, my BMR is about 1275, if I'm not moving at all, that would be my maintenance, but I move, so I get a few hundred more calories depending on my activity, so your numbers don't seem that strange to me. According to the image you uploaded, your maintenance is up to 1292, which is at rest.

Nony_Mouse

If professionals can't help you, I'm not sure why you're asking a bunch of amateurs on the internet. And then getting angry with them for not being able to give you answers.

cmriverside

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

If professionals can't help you, I'm not sure why you're asking a bunch of amateurs on the internet. And then getting angry with them for not being able to give you answers.

For free, too.


I agree that there's something off and it's the two things already stated over and over.

Digital food scale.

Move more, eat more.

When you lose weight you'll lose muscle, too. There is no other way. If you're gaining fat you're still eating more than you think.

Dogmom1978

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

If professionals can't help you, I'm not sure why you're asking a bunch of amateurs on the internet. And then getting angry with them for not being able to give you answers.

^^^

This! And she doesn’t do the number 1 thing that COULD help and weigh and track food accurately. 🤷🏻‍♀️

DancingMoosie

How many calories are you actually eating each day?

AnnPT77

musicfan68 wrote: »

Most of us have been here for years, and through that experience, we find that there is almost always something off with counting calories, or calorie burn. That is why we are skeptical, and you are so argumentative that that raises flags for people as well. We aren't trying to argue just to argue with you. Again, most of us have been at this for a long time and see new people come on with issues such as yours and it is usually something simple like not measuring your food, or a miscalculation of some sort. For what it's worth, my BMR is about 1275, if I'm not moving at all, that would be my maintenance, but I move, so I get a few hundred more calories depending on my activity, so your numbers don't seem that strange to me. According to the image you uploaded, your maintenance is up to 1292, which is at rest.

FWIW, I've been here for years, too I think she's making a much better case here that she's an actual outlier than any other I've seen here before.

Yeah, people who have difficulties can benefit from accurately measuring intake (I haven't read back through to see whether she's said she actually already is). But if multiple DEXA results are producing results like those shown, that's kinda persuasive, to me . . . especially with her other very specific (not vague) statement about what's been considered medically, and by whom.

I agree that almost universally, people coming here claiming "slow metabolism" are mistaken, and commonly have some kind of estimation/measurement issue going on. Heck, I started weight loss assuming I had a "slow metabolism" because I'd been very athletic/active for over a decade while still staying obese. (Turned out I actually burn materially *more* calories than most formulas predict, possibly on the opposite, more fortunate, side of outlier-hood, compared to OP. 🤷‍♀️)

OP, I'm sorry this is where you're finding yourself. That's beyond frustrating. Sounds like you've done second opinions in some areas (endocrinology?), and repeat tests, so that's about what you can do.

I agree with Dogmom that HIIT might not be the ideal choice after strength training (though after is better than before). It's seriously overrated as to benefits by many sources, and can accumulate fatigue at a higher rate, so it might be worth backing down that intensity for a while (couple months?) as an experiment, but that's a hail Mary play. If there's anything you can do on the NEAT front, that's another option (may also be a hail Mary in your case).

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1

Other than that, the only thing I can think of - and maybe you've already done it - is to seek out specialty clinics or research centers related to metabolism, and see if there's anything known there that could help you.

I'm sorry.

Dogmom1978

@AnnPT77 OP doesn’t weigh foods. Although they may be an outlier, NOT accurately tracking caloric intake is only going to make things worse.

sijomial

BlueDesire89 wrote: »

Sijomial just for you, because you misunderstand. I know what im talking about. SEE IT LITERALLY SAYS IT.

I understand perfectly thanks.

You have to eat under your maintenance to lose weight - it's a choice by how much.
There is no compulsion at all to try and lose at a pound a week or any other number that someone dictates to you - adults get to choose.
If someone wrote down "eat 250 cals a day" then it would LITERALLY SAY IT - wouldn't make it compulsory let alone sensible. Use some judgement rather than wrapping yourself in misery.

Just like exercising for half an hour is a choice - but then don't moan about low exercise calorie expenditure.
Just like spending a lot of your day resting would be a choice.
Your definition of "high METS" is a rather pedestrian level of exercise by the way, yes I did the maths.

Didn't realise you had all the answers and just wanted to vent, sorry I gave up my free time to try and help you.

yirara

Just as a check: is it physically possible to have a normal bmi (TO doesn't say what her bmi is, right?) but 40% fat? I find it difficult to get some meaningful numbers out of calculators, especially as those don't check for a correlation with weight that makes sense. Some bmi vs bodyfat charts certainly don't really go into that range, and if they do then that's severely obese territory. Something must be off.

BlueDesire89

I have a calibrated scale paid for from a nutritionist. My calories are 1259 cals on workout days. 1000 on weekends as i do nothing but care for my child. Tues and wed depends on intensity of spin/rpm class at home. I have increased these cals and gained weight (i do not want to gain muscle right now my goal is fat loss i have bern a gym junkie for 4 years can only gain muscle on a surplus)

I did the whole slow cardio after weights DID NOTHING FOR 6 months gained 4 kgs to be precise. This workout is the first time i have lost in a while.

My workout is too long to write up but targets legs/glutes, back, shoulders, chest, triceps, biceps (not in that order) approx 2 exercise types for each muscle group 3 sets of 8-10 for most 3 sets of 10-15 for others. Eg lat pulldown 35 kgs last rep hard but in good form. Incline chest press dumbbells 12kgs each. Bicep curl ezy barbell 15kgs, leg press 76kgs etc. i make sure my last 2 reps are fatigued if i can do more i up my weights.

I do not believe in the rubbish lift high reps. Total garbage.

I have 1.5 hrs only at the gym mon, wed, fri absolutely no other time and my house is too tiny to even do a starjump. Can not workout weekends. So to get all muscles i do full body mon wed and fri if i split it i lose strength and go down in weights. Since doing this i can lift much heavier.

It takes an hr for the weights because i do have to wait for some equipment and i have such a tiny bladder i pee 4 times in this time. I am working out before any main meal but after i breath into my lumen i will eat a banana if it says to based on intended workout to fuel my muscles. If i dont eat it i struggle. If i consume protein before i struggle immensely like its too heavy on my stomach even if it was a light protein source.

BlueDesire89

Oh and my hiit isnt a typical workout its the body boss program look it up. Approx 30 mins including stretch and cool down.

musicfan68

How do you measure your calories? In other words, how do you know you are eating 1259 calories?

heybales

BlueDesire89 wrote: »

Sijomial just for you, because you misunderstand. I know what im talking about. SEE IT LITERALLY SAYS IT.

While I'd trust the numbers measured normally - anything beyond that I would NOT trust because that is interpretation of the numbers.

Since your RMR is reported 949 - resting metabolism - you do NOT need to eat less than that. Unless you laid around all day exactly like the test.

Your pic of report confirms they are using some user supplied info - exercise and daily activity level calories burned - that is not measured.

Per Katch BMR formula using 40% BF - that would be 1169, so not that far off.
You been in a diet for awhile? There is metabolic adaption, could explain the 19% lower than calculated estimate based on BF%. Though that is comparing estimated BMR to measured RMR.

Now, Cunningham RMR formula also based on 40% BF would have you at 1314, so that is badly off.
How long in a diet, what has been deficit you have been attempting from start?

But huge red flag to me on that RMR report - it gives your VO2 137 mL/min, or 2.22 mL/kg/min.
Normal resting VO2 is around 3.5.
Do you do a lot of cardio? I mean a lot of endurance level hours of cardio weekly. I recall mine being around 3 when I got tested in great aerobic shape.

Here's a bigger red flag - 0% of the burn is from fat, 100% from carbs, on the report.
That is bonkers when resting - that would normally show 90-95% from fat as source.

Call them and ask if their machine really puts those figures on the report. It does indeed measure some values that would show that amount, and that math is the whole bases for determining RMR.
Perhaps they just don't include it on the report.
But that is not correct.

That report looks familiar to ones I'd see from this RMR testing operations that would visit gyms and malls to offer cheap tests.
They were worthless - because no one was prepped like you were - no exercise and eating prior to test.
But these outfits also used analyzers and hadn't done their calibrations that require spending some bucks to get accurate - so they didn't care. Spend the calibration money on the paying customers weekly.

BlueDesire89

How the hell did you guys miss the fact that i fastidiously measure and weigh my food. I have a calibrated scale from a nutritionist. I eat 110grams of protein, 90 grams of carbs, 52 grams of fat on workout days. My meals are boring as. Chicken tenders with steamed brocolli, tablespoon of peanut butter, greek yoghurt with hempseed and chia seeds perfectly measured. Tinned tuna with baby spinach and onion. Nuts, lean meats like eye fillet all fat removed. 5% fat minced beef. Etc etc i always get my protein and fibre.

If i up my carbs i get racing heart blurry eyes and unable to focus. Once again all test within normal range. Only thing endocrinologist said was my mitochondria was very poor meaning my carb uptake into the muscle was short i cant store enough carbs because my muscle has no room due to poor mitochondria. Hence the lower than normal carb intake. It was worse before the lumen device (look it up).

Yes i came here hoping someone may have had same experience and can shed a light. Not argue that im just wrong. I believed it was wrong too but i cant do that anymore. Test dont lie especially multiple ones.

BlueDesire89

Ih by the way im premium on my fitness pal i waste so much time logging and tracking my food. By the way i used to be 84kgs i list it all on my own very slowly and properly. Then i injured myself and all things went to hell. I couldnt eat carbs i gained weight fast even though i compensated for having to stop working out until surgery healed. I got to 53kgs thank you very much so obviously i knew what i was doing. But just one day it was like i smelt food and gained weight. Slowly im gaining and now im 61.3. If you want to be supportive great of not go away.

I can prove it too so whoever disagreed you know nothing about me. I was obese my cholesterol was 7.4 its now 4.8 on my own.