How do you decide what your "normal/ideal" is?

netitheyeti

I was a fat teenager (BMI 36-37), up and down in my 20s (tho never back to that level of obese, mostly hovered around BMI 26-28)

I've tried maintaining once before, when I hit roughly the same weight I'm at now (53-55kg at 159.5cm), and then had dental issues and lost down to 48kg. Then I gained 20kg (could finally eat again once the pain was gone and I couldn't stop + I was under a lot of stress and constantly sick so my workout routine also mostly disappeared)... and. yeah. I then more or less maintained that "overweight but not obese" range for 6 or 7 years

Anyway. This time I first chose 56-57kg as my goal (22.2 BMI) ... I got there and I wasn't happy with my body fat % so I kept working out, after another 3 months I hit just over 53kg (21.1 BMI)... I've since then tried to switch to maintaining but I'm struggling not going massively over or under my goals and I'm all over the place... But fingers crossed I figure it out soon. Because of the pandemic and the shutdown (no busses) I'm currently walking 2+h a day to get to work and it's really messing with my appetite

Another thing is - what even are realistic goals to have? My (obese) family makes fun of me for being "bony" but I think I'm just built that way - I lose weight from my hands and mostly upper body in general really fast, but the rest of me I think looks more on the chubby side vs thin (I'm pear shaped)... How much visible bone and muscle definition is normal/expected when in the normal weight range? I'm trying to figure out if it's my brain still not being adjusted to me being smaller and seeing things bigger than in reality, or if family is right about the "bony" thing

Fwiw tho I think I do have a decent (tho not amazing) amount of muscle, but also some loose skin

heybales

I'm not seeing the loose skin where it normally would be.
Good work, and yes good amount of muscle there too.

Appears to be healthy weight range for you, always pick about 2 kg range to maintain in, maybe more.

If you have a very regular routine, and therefore after a month can discern what maintenance eating level it - you could add as little as 100 extra daily and see how that effects some strong workouts and body composition.
If that 100 was actually over maintenance the entire time - it would take 35 days to slowly gain 1 lb - so shouldn't be too much to cause issues, but can effect workouts and recovery.

cmriverside

Well, 21.1 is a very good weight and you look fantastic. Your family is probably just not used to you being at this weight. Ignore them.


As far as maintaining...you know how many calories it took to lose weight and how fast you were losing, right? You've bumped up your daily activity level in the Goals? If you don't know your past loss rate/calories, just choose "Active" and then eat at what the MFP Maintenance level says. Since you're walking most days I wouldn't use it as "Exercise" but just factor it in to your Activity Level.

The first year in Maintenance is pretty erratic. There are going to be weight fluctuations and hunger fluctuations. You know what to do. Keep a good log so you can adjust when necessary.

Welcome to Maintenance.

netitheyeti

A lot of my loose skin is on my inner thighs and the lower part of my stomach, but yeah, I think I got fairly lucky with my arms

sijomial

Your fat family is an issue - they see you through the prism of their own weight issues which they haven't yet dealt with plus they will also not have adjusted to seeing the new you. If it continues to mess with your head have a word with them to keep quiet on the subject.
Do you have healthy weight friends and family that you can talk to? You might find their perspective is very different. My fat failed dieter friends thought I was too skinny, my light and fit cyclist mentor thought I was too heavy.


"I've since then tried to switch to maintaining but I'm struggling not going massively over or under my goals and I'm all over the place"
I can't actually grasp what this means in detail so maybe you can expand?
Going over/under on daily calories or going over/under on your chosen weight range?

"How much visible bone and muscle definition is normal/expected when in the normal weight range?"
There isn't one normal. Normal for an athlete? Normal for someone who lifts weights? Normal for someone who chooses to maintain at a higher or lower end of the scale? Normal for someone sucking in their stomach?


Realistic is that your skin will improve over time, realistic is that your body can continue to change while maintaining weight, realistic that your life and your goals will change and you might want to pick a different weight range sometime in the future. It’s also realistic that you will adjust over time to your new body and stop being surprised when you see your reflection in an unguarded moment and it's no longer different to how you see yourself.

Yes, it does sound like you are still getting accustomed to the new size you but the good news is that you have all the time in the world. There's not actually a desperate need to figure things out for the rest of your life right now, just the next few months.

Heybale's raising your cals by 100 for a month experiment is a good suggestion, partly physiological to see if you can maintain on more calories but also reassuring that you are in control of your destiny in this game of maths. Your extra walking is a great example of how you won't be locked in one calorie allowance forever.

netitheyeti

I guess I'm overthinking it because I'm sure my average more or less evens out, but past 10 days I've had days where I ended up eating anywhere between 1300 and 2600kcal (I was legit hungry). I'm estimating my maintenance to be in the 1900-2000 range with my current activity level. I was eating 1700ish to (slowly) lose the last 2-3 months.
My weight - I don't weigh myself often, but I do take measurements and things have been fairly consistent. I'm just really not enjoying my hunger levels being all over the place with my diet being more or less the same (in terms of types of food if nothing else), I guess I'm not very comfortable with being over/under more than a 1-200 because in the past I've had bad experience with gaininig/losing more than I wanted

My best friends are mostly overweight/obese, mind you they don't comment on my body much if at all - I don't on theirs either unless I'm asked for diet opinions

I am moving towards the end of the month which should cut down on my walking... but I should have the energy to do my weights and other workouts again, properly

shirazum2023

Hi, I am shaped a lot like you. I lose weight mostly from my upperbody and have visible cuts in shoulder, delts, triceps from not working out all that much. Kind of blessed. You look amazing. Your cuts are stunning.

There's this thing I have learned, I never felt that I am small, always felt I am decent, normal and then I started noticing myself beside other people and I have realized I am smaller than majority of the people. My point being, we are sometimes too critical/hard on ourselves.

Luke_rabbit

My BMI is currently 21.2. My shape is very similar to yours. I have less muscle and more obvious loose skin, but that's mainly an age thing (and laziness about strength training). I have definitely noticed improvement as maintenance goes on in how my skin looks, so you can likely look forward to that.

I eat a wide range of calories day to day. I think that's just normal for some people. I use a spreadsheet to track weight, calories in, deficit, exercise calories, etc It has allowed me to figure out exactly how many calories to eat, plus it lets me see where my calories are over the entire month.

Here's a screenshot of a portion of November's:



Let me know if I can help in any way.

And what everyone else said about your family.😁

sardelsa

I think you look great, I don't think you look too small at all, but how do you feel? I think it's about finding goals that are sustainable (if you plan on staying there), realistic and make you happy.

You are going to find a variety of body compositions at the same BMI, and I don't think there is an "ideal". It all depends on how much muscle vs fat they have, how they carry that fat, their genetics etc. For example I maintain around 20-21 BMI but to me it is irrelevant because I am more focused on body composition. I have been around the same weight for most of my life but I look completely different depending on how much muscle mass I have.

My hunger fluctuates too so rather than force it on myself to eat a certain way, I vary the amount of calories I eat everyday (unless I am trying to gain). During maintenance I ate a bit more, a bit less, but overall maintained within a 3-5lb range. I had periods of slight gain, and periods of slight loss. That works best for me. Maybe you have to experiment with a maintenance way of eating that works best for you.

AnnPT77

I think you look good where you are. Further, I think that most people - those who don't have a distorted body image in some way - can recognize, by how they feel and look, when they've reached a good weight. If that weight is maintainable on a sustainable calorie intake and exercise schedule, that's the golden spot.

I don't think *you* have a distorted body image, though I'm judging only from your photos and your remarks here. When I think "distorted body image", I think of those sad cases we sometimes see here of young women who are ultra, ultra thin already but fussed about belly fat (because they have a uterus) or lack of thigh gap/snatched waist or something . . . or the (not necessarily problematic) "I'm so muscular that I should be at an overweight BMI" group who are clearly still carrying some extra bodyfat (and are not dramatically muscular or wide-framed). You are neither of those: You look strong and healthy.

You are slender by most standards in my surroundings, and people here are not so used to seeing slender. Here, it's socially and statistically "normal" to be a bit overweight to a lot overweight, and that starts to look right to people. I think there's quite a range of weight, for most people, that could be reasonably healthy; beyond that it's a matter of preference and practicality. You appear to be in that sensible range.

Like you, I tend to go quite thin above my waist relatively early in weight loss, while still holding some lower body fat (mostly between waist and upper thighs). Compared to those sites with photos of women's bodies at various body fat percents, I think my upper body looks high teens-ish, and lower looks 25% or a bit above. My BIA scale (which is far from an accurate source) suggests around 23% BF, as does the "Navy Calculator", at 5'5"/165cm, 125lbs/56.7kg, BMI 20.8. Low/mid 20s BF% is fine for me, IMO. You could consider what some of those estimates suggest for you, too, if you like - if it would be reassuring.

When I first lost weight, some of my friends/family kind of freaked out about it, saying I was too thin, skin & bones, blah blah blah - even some usually sensible people. It's not common to see people lose weight moderately fast/steadily, frankly. They're used to seeing us look a different way. The new way looks "wrong". If those friends/family are maybe a little heavy themselves, and inclined to rationalize, that reaction becomes even more likely. In my experience: They get used to it, and the comments fade. (Expect a future phase with "you're lucky you don't need to worry about your weight" every time you eat cake, and other nonsense like that. Ignore that, too. 😆)

A couple of years later, I asked a close, sensible and very honest friend why she'd reacted the way she did (at one point, she even mentioned worry about anorexia, when I was eating > 2000 calories daily, and losing at around half a pound a week!). She said she wasn't sure, but she thought that shock and maybe some envy were in the mix. Further, she said (at that couple years on stage) that she'd gotten used to me looking as I did, and I no longer looked alarming to her.

BTW: I thing that helped me along the way was talking with my doctor about my weight goals. Prospectively, he was fine with anything in the normal BMI range (😆), so I could legit tell people "my doctor is happy with my weight goals". If you happen to see a doctor for something, you could ask, and maybe get that tactic in your toolkit for quieting complaints, too.

It's also very normal, IMO, for us to "look wrong" to ourselves for a while after loss, not necessarily to look too thin or fat, but for our mind to see a different (earlier version) self image, rather than an updated one. Self image catches up eventually. At first, my new clothes looked absurdly tiny, like they'd never fit on my body . . . even when they did. Stuff like that. That, too, changes with time, IME. Brains are weird. 😉

You don't have visible loose skin that I can see, but I can accept that there might be some hiding somewhere under clothes. My experience was that my loose skin kept shrinking at least into my 2nd year of maintenance, very slowly. So, that can still change. You do have some nice muscularity shaping up, so good show! Obviously, if you keep doing good progressive strength training with sensible nutrition, your muscularity can also keep increasing (and might lead you to change your mind about body weight, longer term - your call).

From what I see in these photos, and from reading what you've written, I think you have a sensible view of yourself, well-adjusted, all that good stuff. And you should be proud of what you'd achieved, for sure! The rest of the world (and the odd corner of your own brain) will catch up, with time. For now, try to let it roll off, and trust yourself.

P.S. This is not why I usually recommend this thread, but if you want some views of what normal women look like in/around the normal BMI weight zone, the uterus thread is a good one:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10689837/does-this-uterus-make-my-stomach-look-fat/p1

Your "How much visible bone and muscle definition is normal/expected when in the normal weight range" question plays well with that thread, because the thread explicitly asks about BMI, exercise routine, and other specifics like that, so you can see a range of women, and most of the photos show more than midsection. There are lots of before/after threads around here, but many of those lack the metrics. I would underscore, though, that any photo thread probably over-selects a bit for people who are happy with their bodies, so skewing toward looking good. I'd also say that you'd be a great contributor to bump that thread, if you'd like to participate in it.

Addictead

My hips and ribs stick out even at a BMI of 25 because of having a larger bone structure, At 22/23(my ideal) they're pretty prominent. Don't lose or maintain a weight that make other people "comfortable" with it, Do it for yourself. Where do you feel the best look AND physically. I've had people tell me both that my weight was "too high" and "too low" but does any of that matter when I'm the one living with it?

sijomial

AnnPT77 wrote: »

A couple of years later, I asked a close, sensible and very honest friend why she'd reacted the way she did (at one point, she even mentioned worry about anorexia, when I was eating > 2000 calories daily, and losing at around half a pound a week!). She said she wasn't sure, but she thought that shock and maybe some envy were in the mix. Further, she said (at that couple years on stage) that she'd gotten used to me looking as I did, and I no longer looked alarming to her.

That's very interesting.
One of my chubby friends, who has been intending to lose weight for the entire 25+ years I've known her, thought I looked "gaunt and scrawny" when I initially lost weight (I was still slightly over the top of the BMI normal range at that stage!) many months later opined I looked much better now I had regained some weight.
Except I hadn't, I was actually lighter and leaner. I think my face had changed a bit but not as much of a factor as her simply getting used to seeing me at a healthy weight.

Congrats on using the word slender @AnnPT77
A very under-used word.

AnnPT77

sijomial wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

A couple of years later, I asked a close, sensible and very honest friend why she'd reacted the way she did (at one point, she even mentioned worry about anorexia, when I was eating > 2000 calories daily, and losing at around half a pound a week!). She said she wasn't sure, but she thought that shock and maybe some envy were in the mix. Further, she said (at that couple years on stage) that she'd gotten used to me looking as I did, and I no longer looked alarming to her.

That's very interesting.
One of my chubby friends, who has been intending to lose weight for the entire 25+ years I've known her, thought I looked "gaunt and scrawny" when I initially lost weight (I was still slightly over the top of the BMI normal range at that stage!) many months later opined I looked much better now I had regained some weight.
Except I hadn't, I was actually lighter and leaner. I think my face had changed a bit but not as much of a factor as her simply getting used to seeing me at a healthy weight.

Congrats on using the word slender @AnnPT77
A very under-used word.

With apologies to the OP for the digression: My personal perception of myself is that there was a period right at the end of weight loss, where I looked a little haggard, and that resolved within a month or two. Weight loss, long term calorie deficit: It's a physical stressor. It wouldn't be surprising if that has temporary appearance implications. My speculation would be that some final slackness of skin (like facial skin) contributed to this but improved fairly quickly, and that the small incremental glycogen replenishment as I hit maintenance calories (and stayed there for a bit) acted like a bit of filler/enhancement as well.

Comments from a knowlegeable trainer friend, whom I now see only rarely, reinforced this interpretation: She saw me at about the end of loss, then again a couple of months later; and on the second occasion told me she thought I'd looked a little gaunt at first, but looked really healthy on the second occasion (I was at the same body weight).

Granted, both her comment and my perception can be illusions related to getting used to the look, but I think there might be something there. 🤷‍♀️

corinasue1143

You look great right where you are. May not seem perfect to you, but a darn good place to be!
Especially if you feel good!

SnifterPug

Your arms are TO DIE FOR! The rest of you looks great, too, but I have serious arm envy going on here.

netitheyeti

SnifterPug wrote: »

Your arms are TO DIE FOR! The rest of you looks great, too, but I have serious arm envy going on here.

Thank you! I've always struggled pushing through long/hard enough to build any upper body strength so I'm actually so happy to have some muscle now

chris89topher

I'll echo everyone else by saying that I think you look great right where you are. I think sometimes we see ourselves differently than reality. I'm guilty of this myself, because when I look in the mirror I still want to lose more weight even though my BMI is 20.0 (male).

I think you've done a great job!

Liftsalotat5

My ideal is always goal oriented. When I wanted to bench press 1.5xbw,squat 2xbw and dead lift 2.5xbw I bulked up to 176 and when my joints started hurting I dropped down to 145 to run a half marathon and enjoy rock climbing more challenging routes. I was alright with both body composition because they lent themselves to what I wanted to accomplish.

spiriteagle99

I am built similarly - bony upper body, solid lower body. I Have been maintaining at 121-125 for several years, but still seesaw between thinking I should gain a few pounds to get some padding on my back/ribs vs. I should lose a few to get thinner thighs. I think my husband would rather I gain a few pounds, but doesn't say so, since he believes the choice is mine to make.

I am much older than you are but net about 1800 calories a day, and that is sustainable for me since I eat back all my exercise calories. It took me a while to find a balance since I burn more calories than is typical for someone of my age and somewhat sedentary lifestyle. That allows me a lot of flexibility in my diet.

What I have decided is that since I am comfortable with the amount I'm eating, I'm not hungry - or if I am, I eat, and I can do the things I want to do (run and hike), while maintaining a stable weight, I'll stick with what is working. I know that if I were getting less exercise, my weight would go up, and I'd be all right with that as long as it didn't go up too much. I know what I need to do to lose, to gain, and to maintain, so I'll enjoy where I am now, and if the situation changes, I'll figure it out.

nitalieben

netitheyeti wrote: »

I was a fat teenager (BMI 36-37), up and down in my 20s (tho never back to that level of obese, mostly hovered around BMI 26-28)

I've tried maintaining once before, when I hit roughly the same weight I'm at now (53-55kg at 159.5cm), and then had dental issues and lost down to 48kg. Then I gained 20kg (could finally eat again once the pain was gone and I couldn't stop + I was under a lot of stress and constantly sick so my workout routine also mostly disappeared)... and. yeah. I then more or less maintained that "overweight but not obese" range for 6 or 7 years

Anyway. This time I first chose 56-57kg as my goal (22.2 BMI) ... I got there and I wasn't happy with my body fat % so I kept working out, after another 3 months I hit just over 53kg (21.1 BMI)... I've since then tried to switch to maintaining but I'm struggling not going massively over or under my goals and I'm all over the place... But fingers crossed I figure it out soon. Because of the pandemic and the shutdown (no busses) I'm currently walking 2+h a day to get to work and it's really messing with my appetite

Another thing is - what even are realistic goals to have? My (obese) family makes fun of me for being "bony" but I think I'm just built that way - I lose weight from my hands and mostly upper body in general really fast, but the rest of me I think looks more on the chubby side vs thin (I'm pear shaped)... How much visible bone and muscle definition is normal/expected when in the normal weight range? I'm trying to figure out if it's my brain still not being adjusted to me being smaller and seeing things bigger than in reality, or if family is right about the "bony" thing

Fwiw tho I think I do have a decent (tho not amazing) amount of muscle, but also some loose skin

I don't know, but I'd be damned happy if I looked like you!