French children don't snack
Replies
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THE CAKE ISLE! I live in the UK for 4 years now and I still haven't tried even 20% of the assortment.
AN ENTIRE CAKE ISLAND?! Please give me the coordinates.
:laugh: just kidding, just kidding. 0 -
I feel sorry for French children.
I snacked the entire time growing up. I remember a time in my teens when I drank a gallon of whole milk a day. I became overweight during a brief period in my 30s. The only things that I changed after that are how much I eat and how much I move.
The relentless comparison of national habits and diets is getting to the point of absurdity. We already know what causes obesity. We already know what a healthy diet looks like. There are many roads to Rome. Pick one.
I think the idea that French people don't snack, or don't eat large meals, is a myth. It wouldn't surprise me if the French are generally more active than Americans.
I'd tend to agree with you, though I've never lived in France so I cannot confirm my suspicion.
What I can say is that I did live in Japan for several years and pretty much everything anyone has ever written about the mysterious and super healthy Japanese diet only applies to some rural mountain villages. And while it is still difficult to find seriously overweight Japanese (even in Tokyo), the diet there is no more or less healthy than a very average American diet. What is different is that the Japanese have the good sense to eat smaller portions and to push away from the table when they're no longer hungry.
And yes, you don't see the Japanese stuffing their faces 24/7 while walking around everywhere. I'm pretty sure a calorie is a calorie whether you eat it walking or sitting though. That said their street festivals, zoos, etc. though are every bit as full of beer and fatty snacks as any carnival here. And damn, I miss takoyaki and beer!
I'll put "oooo it's snacking" right up there with "oooo, it's sugar" and "ooo it's simple carbs."
Maybe they're just vigilant. I snack, sometimes I eat a lot, and second breakfast is listed in my diary. But if waistbands get snug, or I see jiggle on my arms, I go back to eating at a deficit. Call me shallow, but I'm so much happier this way that I will do what it takes to stay this size.0 -
I feel sorry for French children.
I snacked the entire time growing up. I remember a time in my teens when I drank a gallon of whole milk a day. I became overweight during a brief period in my 30s. The only things that I changed after that are how much I eat and how much I move.
The relentless comparison of national habits and diets is getting to the point of absurdity. We already know what causes obesity. We already know what a healthy diet looks like. There are many roads to Rome. Pick one.
I think the idea that French people don't snack, or don't eat large meals, is a myth. It wouldn't surprise me if the French are generally more active than Americans.
I'd tend to agree with you, though I've never lived in France so I cannot confirm my suspicion.
What I can say is that I did live in Japan for several years and pretty much everything anyone has ever written about the mysterious and super healthy Japanese diet only applies to some rural mountain villages. And while it is still difficult to find seriously overweight Japanese (even in Tokyo), the diet there is no more or less healthy than a very average American diet. What is different is that the Japanese have the good sense to eat smaller portions and to push away from the table when they're no longer hungry.
And yes, you don't see the Japanese stuffing their faces 24/7 while walking around everywhere. I'm pretty sure a calorie is a calorie whether you eat it walking or sitting though. That said their street festivals, zoos, etc. though are every bit as full of beer and fatty snacks as any carnival here. And damn, I miss takoyaki and beer!
I'll put "oooo it's snacking" right up there with "oooo, it's sugar" and "ooo it's simple carbs."
interesting perspective. I'm pretty sure I was not trying to start a 'oooo it's snacking' thread though. As far as the japanese 'not stuffing their faces 24/7 while walking around everywhere', are you saying that in your experience with the culture that snacking was not prevalent?
As far as french culture, I do have some experience and can say I found the article to be generally accurate, unless things have changed recently.
If you want my personal opinion, I agree that there may be 'many roads to rome'. And here is one of them.
I agree that learning to stop eating 24/7 is an important part of the equation for some people. I know several people, and am related to several more, who seem to never stop eating, and are always saying that they're hungry. That's not snacking though, that's simple gluttony. And the Japanese who I know snack, but they are not gluttons.0 -
We try and feed my kid on a one snack schedule, and recently have upped it to two. The reason for limiting and adding a new snack were the same--she eats very little at her regular sit down meals. I cannot imagine how much harder it would be to get her to eat if I let her graze as much as I see other toddlers. As is, I constantly worry that she's not eating enough and that the second snack will turn her into a TV addicted sloth.
You can't win. You just get to find out what they blame you for when they get older. If we do our job right, she won't let "Waah, _____ is my parent's fault" stop her from taking control and fixing what she considers wrong.0 -
IMO there's only snacking since the advent of snack food and the relentless advertising message that people need something to 'tide them over' until the next meal.
I grew up in the UK in the 70s and even back then in my circle it was fairly uncommon to snack. By the 80s it seemed that there was more advertising around snacks - I remember "I Finger of Fudge is just enough until it's time to eat" (as though eating the chocolate wasn't actually eating) and Milky Way was "The sweet you can eat between meals". These days you'd think kids would implode without snacks which is ironic because they're probably more sedentary than kids of previous generations who weren't doing so much snacking.
My childhood was in the 90's (in Germany) and I do not recall snacking as something people did. Neither children, nor adults. In my family we were not allowed to eat anywhere but in the kitchen. No food in our bedrooms, in front of the TV, or later on the PC. I still don't feel snacking in Europe is something as common as our American MFPers describe it. Who eats in the car?! You only do that when you had to skip lunch at work and you're too famished to drive or something... that said, Germans visiting the UK often feel that the country is very "americanised". Aside from the fact that supermarkets on the scale of Tesco and Asda do not exist, the ridiculously large bags with crisps and ... THE CAKE ISLE! I live in the UK for 4 years now and I still haven't tried even 20% of the assortment.
I grew up in Germany too and my experience very much reflects yours.
I still go back regularly as my parents still live there and I always notice that people are generally slimmer and fitter than in the UK. You see far more people cycling to shops, walking, hiking.0 -
^^ This.
I think snacking is both cultural and generational. I probably eat around eight times a day and still lose weight. Grazing is wonderful.0 -
I have French friends, this is true, for them anyway. I asked my friend why all Parisiens are slim: 'We don't eat cereal', she said.
I was once in a café in Paris, having a croissant and coffee and then I asked for another croissant. 'Another?' said the waitress, shook her head and looked at me like I was INSANE. :-D
I worked as an au pair years ago, near Avignon. The kids were 2 and 6 and they had cereal for breakfast. They also had snacks, like those mini kinder bars.
My kids are 2 and 4 and often don't snack. If they're busy playing they don't think to ask. When they do snack it's usually on a banana or some raisins. We don't eat cereal though.
I did notice when I lived in France that they don't have anywhere near the selection of junk we have in the UK. Although I used to work with a French girl who had the worst diet of anyone I knew! She said as a teenager she used to drink 2l of coke a day, eat McDonald's and chocolate etc. She was tall and skinny. B*tch lol.
When I was 14 I stayed with my French pen pal. They used to have an after school snack of brioche and Nutella!0 -
I grew up in Ukraine and we had same schedule - breakfast, lunch and supper, and a small meal (yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.) at 4 pm. No snacks whatsoever. Same schedule was incorporated in pre-schools, summer camps, resorts. I am refraining from giving snacks to my kids, who was born and raised in America, too. Primarily, because if they come to dinner not completely hungry, then they become more picky with what I am serving. No food in the car -- they learned early in life that mama will be not a happy camper if I find single crumb in my BMW.0
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I was raised in Canada although my parents are from France. Snacking just didn't happen since it isn't part of the culture. I would never have dreamed of going into the fridge and helping myself to something to eat between meal. I still don't go into my mother's fridge.
Meals were like this:
Breakfast: Hot chocolate and toast
Lunch (Main Meal of the day): Appetizer such as a rice salad, stuffed tomatoes or deviled eggs, Main dish was something like Sauerkraut with meats, steak and fries, roast chicken and veggies, stew, etc., and a fruit for dessert.
Dinner: Soup, Main dish was leftovers from lunch or something lighter like an omelette, then a full dessert such as pie, cake, rice pudding or other.
The 4:30 pm casse-croute was skipped because we ate around 5:30 or 6 pm rather than 8 pm as in France.
I still don't snack between meals but if you check my diary, you will find snacks on there. They tend to be something that I eat at night because I have calories left over although I never used to do this. I used to eat huge, healthy but rich meals that put the weight on. Now I simply eat less and have a snack at night if I have extra calories.
As to feeling sorry for French kids who don't have snacks, they aren't hungry so why should we be feeling sorry for them? Maybe we should feel sorry for the poor American kids who are always having food shoved down their throat. 0 -
I feel sorry for French children.
I snacked the entire time growing up. I remember a time in my teens when I drank a gallon of whole milk a day. I became overweight during a brief period in my 30s. The only things that I changed after that are how much I eat and how much I move.
The relentless comparison of national habits and diets is getting to the point of absurdity. We already know what causes obesity. We already know what a healthy diet looks like. There are many roads to Rome. Pick one.
I think the idea that French people don't snack, or don't eat large meals, is a myth. It wouldn't surprise me if the French are generally more active than Americans.
I'd tend to agree with you, though I've never lived in France so I cannot confirm my suspicion.
What I can say is that I did live in Japan for several years and pretty much everything anyone has ever written about the mysterious and super healthy Japanese diet only applies to some rural mountain villages. And while it is still difficult to find seriously overweight Japanese (even in Tokyo), the diet there is no more or less healthy than a very average American diet. What is different is that the Japanese have the good sense to eat smaller portions and to push away from the table when they're no longer hungry.
And yes, you don't see the Japanese stuffing their faces 24/7 while walking around everywhere. I'm pretty sure a calorie is a calorie whether you eat it walking or sitting though. That said their street festivals, zoos, etc. though are every bit as full of beer and fatty snacks as any carnival here. And damn, I miss takoyaki and beer!
I'll put "oooo it's snacking" right up there with "oooo, it's sugar" and "ooo it's simple carbs."
interesting perspective. I'm pretty sure I was not trying to start a 'oooo it's snacking' thread though. As far as the japanese 'not stuffing their faces 24/7 while walking around everywhere', are you saying that in your experience with the culture that snacking was not prevalent?
As far as french culture, I do have some experience and can say I found the article to be generally accurate, unless things have changed recently.
If you want my personal opinion, I agree that there may be 'many roads to rome'. And here is one of them.
IIRC, (double check I got the right culture... http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00723/index_files/Page357.htm) it is considered rude in Japanese culture to eat while walking. Some of us might consider slurping soup as rude. It's a cultural thing.
As for French culture, I wouldn't be surprised if their working schedule (35 hour working week, 10 hours maximum working day, a minimum of 35 consecutive hours off work and no working on Sunday's, 11 hours between the end of one shift and the start of the next, etc.) might be a reason for a difference in snacking (or the difference in snacking is the reason for their typical working schedule, which came first?)
Meh, sociology was too dull for me.
ETA: I think in England it used to be Breakfast, Lunch, Afternoon Tea, Dinner. Or Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner, Supper. I think the average person's schedule no longer fits around that. Perhaps we snack more because we no longer have a full English breakfast each day.0 -
My kids' dentist, and the American Dental Association in general, recommends no snacking. This is due to extending the amount of direct contact the teeth have with foods and drinks. They've backed off on this somewhat, with an "if you must, choose wisely" approach. But this concept isn't foreign to America.
ETA a link or two:
http://www.ada.org/sections/scienceAndResearch/pdfs/patient_13.pdf
http://www.ada.org/sections/professionalResources/pdfs/ADA_PatientSmart_Sipping_Snacking.pdf
I wonder how the French view diabetics or other populations which may require less food more times per day. I also wonder whether people eat more at the assigned times than they would if they knew they had free access to food at any time of day.
Thanks for the information. Lots to consider.0 -
I grew up in Germany too and my experience very much reflects yours.
I still go back regularly as my parents still live there and I always notice that people are generally slimmer and fitter than in the UK. You see far more people cycling to shops, walking, hiking.
Regarding the cycling: it is god awful in this country! there is no funding, no awareness, it's very dangerous (I live in a 110k city and have seen regular cycle accidents in large roundabouts) and absolutely off-putting.
And I also noticed that sports seem to be more difficult to pursue here. At university, it costs up to a 100£ to play football for a year (including the insurance cover, charges for using equipment, match fees, coach salary). Women's football is lagging a good decade behind. Our local uni team has to drive up for 4 hours to meet another team.
Don't get me wrong- I love it here, but I do wonder whether the lack of options regarding fitness and sport is related to UK's higher obesity rates. The EU-US differences very much suggest so.0 -
THE CAKE ISLE! I live in the UK for 4 years now and I still haven't tried even 20% of the assortment.
AN ENTIRE CAKE ISLAND?! Please give me the coordinates. :laugh: just kidding, just kidding.
56.5800° N, 78.7800° W
check it! :bigsmile:0 -
I didn't grow up snacking at all as a kid. I don't even think we had snack type foods in the house. (1980's southeastern US). If we were thirsty, it was milk or water. There were no sodas in the house. That being said, I do have a piece of fruit in the afternoons now to hold me over until dinner. We eat dinner, as a family, at 5:30 and then the kitchen is closed.
I see a lot of parents in my area using food to pacify their kids. Kid having a tantrum? Hand them a baggie of teddy grahams, cheerios and such. That, in my opinion, is the real problem. I know the parents are overwhelmed and need a break (no judgment here), but food being used to comfort moods sets the kid up for problems later in life. Again, just my opinion.0 -
I feel sorry for French children.
I snacked the entire time growing up. I remember a time in my teens when I drank a gallon of whole milk a day. I became overweight during a brief period in my 30s. The only things that I changed after that are how much I eat and how much I move.
The relentless comparison of national habits and diets is getting to the point of absurdity. We already know what causes obesity. We already know what a healthy diet looks like. There are many roads to Rome. Pick one.
QFT0 -
Very interesting. Giving up snacks is one of the key points
in the weight loss advice I give. But I had no idea that eating
snacks is a cultural thing, and that in some cultures -- at least
in France -- snacking is very minimal. Does anyone here know
of other cultures in which snacking is not customary?
I am not positive, but I believe this also holds true for some other european mediterenean countries like spain and italy. Also, I believe some asian countries, like japan. Please jump in though to verify or correct me though.
Japanese children snack all the time. Conbinis are on every corner, sometimes 2 on a corner. Conbinis are convenience stores full of snacks. There's also vending machines about every 100 feet or so. The Meiji candy company is one of the biggest in the world. They also have some of the most unique flavors of doritos and potato chips you could imagine. Half of the grocery stores are snack aisles. The problem is not snacking. Americans and Canadians are fatter than the French, who are in turn are far fatter than the Japanese. The problem is overconsumption, not timing of consumption or what is consumed.
^This. I've seen many Japanese adults and children snacking a lot more than I've seen most Americans growing up. As Ginger said, it's about overconsumption of food (snacks and meals)...not timing or what is consumed.0 -
An awesome day usually includes 2nd bkfst! :drinker:0 -
Whatever, France. Hey, didn't France ban ketchup in the schools?0
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Nothing like generalisations........
Lol. Yup, you brits never generalize when it comes to those frenchies.
And of course, that wasn't a generalisation! But I get where you were going with that. And entirely agree with your original post. I've lived in France, and stay with French friends on occasion. The way of eating is ingrained. And anyone who 'feels sorry' for the French not snacking doesn't need to. They have a very healthy attitude to food. They partake in 'proper' meals (IMHO), which include everything in moderation, and generally in the right proportions. A visit to a patisserie is regarded as a treat- that is to say, it's not something eaten on the go, or in the car- they sit down and enjoy it as an occasion- the same way they do do a tea or coffee. Food is something they take very seriously (along with a lot of things, and there's my little generalisation about the French! ). We can learn a lot from their culture, as we can from many cultures. 0 -
My kids are grazers, constantly wanting to snack. I limit their snacking only because it's not good for their teeth. But they still end up eating 3 meals and 2 snacks a day. Both are slim, each near the very low end of the BMI chart. I don't think snacking need be a shameful thing like suggested in that article. All depends what is being fed to them.0
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French food is SO good, so fresh - the coffee, the bread, the cheese, the soups. Perhaps quality not quanity helps quieten the appetite?0
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Nothing like generalisations........
Lol. Yup, you brits never generalize when it comes to those frenchies.
And of course, that wasn't a generalisation! But I get where you were going with that. And entirely agree with your original post. I've lived in France, and stay with French friends on occasion. The way of eating is ingrained. And anyone who 'feels sorry' for the French not snacking doesn't need to. They have a very healthy attitude to food. They partake in 'proper' meals (IMHO), which include everything in moderation, and generally in the right proportions. A visit to a patisserie is regarded as a treat- that is to say, it's not something eaten on the go, or in the car- they sit down and enjoy it as an occasion- the same way they do do a tea or coffee. Food is something they take very seriously (along with a lot of things, and there's my little generalisation about the French! ). We can learn a lot from their culture, as we can from many cultures.
Generalize away. :happy:
As far as the patisserie and the healthy attitude....you mean they eat sweets other than on their cheat day?! Gasps. 0 -
Very interesting. Giving up snacks is one of the key points
in the weight loss advice I give. But I had no idea that eating
snacks is a cultural thing, and that in some cultures -- at least
in France -- snacking is very minimal. Does anyone here know
of other cultures in which snacking is not customary?
I am not positive, but I believe this also holds true for some other european mediterenean countries like spain and italy. Also, I believe some asian countries, like japan. Please jump in though to verify or correct me though.
Japanese children snack all the time. Conbinis are on every corner, sometimes 2 on a corner. Conbinis are convenience stores full of snacks. There's also vending machines about every 100 feet or so. The Meiji candy company is one of the biggest in the world. They also have some of the most unique flavors of doritos and potato chips you could imagine. Half of the grocery stores are snack aisles. The problem is not snacking. Americans and Canadians are fatter than the French, who are in turn are far fatter than the Japanese. The problem is overconsumption, not timing of consumption or what is consumed.
^This. I've seen many Japanese adults and children snacking a lot more than I've seen most Americans growing up. As Ginger said, it's about overconsumption of food (snacks and meals)...not timing or what is consumed.
While I don't disagree with you, isn't this potentially simplistic. IF (and I believe they do) studies show that consumption of snacks does not alter the amount of calories consumed at meal times for the majority of northern americans, then aren't we really potentially talking about the same thing.
Of course, I've known some teeny tiny women who graze constantly, but never (not even during meals) eat a lot at one time. But I guess that goes back to what works for the individual and the whole 'different roads to rome' comment.
Of course, I see no harm in discussing the topic and the whole 'alternate routes' as options to each of us.0 -
Thanks for posting0
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I'm from Wales, UK (one of the fattest countries for kids, apparently! yay!) and I didn't really snack as a child. My sister did, though, and we both still ended up overweight. Ironically I ended up more overweight, but she ended up with a very unhealthy sweet tooth.
I'm not from a rural place, though, and walking through town every single shop has some form of snack you can nibble at. All shops are now geared towards selling snack-foods (or foods that have enough calories for a meal, but don't fill you up like one) and alcohol/energy drinks, it seems.
I think when these shops are hard to come by (have you ever been to Paris? there's a patisserie on every street, it seems) kids are less likely to snack on big processed "junk food" and more likely to be sat down to eat meals at tables.0 -
Nothing like generalisations........
Lol. Yup, you brits never generalize when it comes to those frenchies.
And of course, that wasn't a generalisation! But I get where you were going with that. And entirely agree with your original post. I've lived in France, and stay with French friends on occasion. The way of eating is ingrained. And anyone who 'feels sorry' for the French not snacking doesn't need to. They have a very healthy attitude to food. They partake in 'proper' meals (IMHO), which include everything in moderation, and generally in the right proportions. A visit to a patisserie is regarded as a treat- that is to say, it's not something eaten on the go, or in the car- they sit down and enjoy it as an occasion- the same way they do do a tea or coffee. Food is something they take very seriously (along with a lot of things, and there's my little generalisation about the French! ). We can learn a lot from their culture, as we can from many cultures.
Generalize away. :happy:
As far as the patisserie and the healthy attitude....you mean they eat sweets other than on their cheat day?! Gasps.
Sadly, most of them don't need cheat days! (sigh). I think if I lived there now, every day would be a cheat day! 0 -
I feel sorry for French children.
I snacked the entire time growing up. I remember a time in my teens when I drank a gallon of whole milk a day. I became overweight during a brief period in my 30s. The only things that I changed after that are how much I eat and how much I move.
The relentless comparison of national habits and diets is getting to the point of absurdity. We already know what causes obesity. We already know what a healthy diet looks like. There are many roads to Rome. Pick one.
QFT^^Japanese children snack all the time. Conbinis are on every corner, sometimes 2 on a corner. Conbinis are convenience stores full of snacks. There's also vending machines about every 100 feet or so. The Meiji candy company is one of the biggest in the world. They also have some of the most unique flavors of doritos and potato chips you could imagine. Half of the grocery stores are snack aisles. The problem is not snacking. Americans and Canadians are fatter than the French, who are in turn are far fatter than the Japanese. The problem is overconsumption, not timing of consumption or what is consumed.
Also QFT ^^
Here is what I took away from this thread "dang, Beaches are smart."0 -
I can't understand why habitual snackers would feel sorry for those whose cultures don't include snacking - they're used to their way of doing things, it's normal for them.
I also grew up, in the UK, in the 1970s and 80s, of mixed German/English parentage, and we also didn't have snacks, at least not til we were teenagers and in such a mega-growth-spurt that we needed extra calories just after school. Stomach sizes adjust, and above all, you don't develop a habit of eating all day long, and feeling that this is necessary. Guess what - it's not!
We had a good breakfast of cereal and toast, lunch usually sandwich-based, the post-school intake often of something like cheese on toast, and our supper was really the biggest meal of the day, something hot, plenty of veg, some meat or fish, and pasta, rice or potato. We also didn't have puddings much - and I don't make them except for special occasions either: again, not being used to them, I don't find them necessary or miss them. In fact, when I started calorie counting, I began to resent them, realising just how much of a day's "allowance" they'd swallow up - I'd far rather have a bigger volume of veg than a small amount of something cloyingly sweet. Since my son developed type I diabetes eight years ago, the whole family has also found that it's adjusted to a less sweet tooth, as I stopped buying the really sweet things so much - far from being a treat, they're now sickly to us. I just wish the food manufacturers would stop stuffing so many artificial sweeteners to such extreme amounts into so many foods - it is perpetuating the sweet tooth of the general population, and making it more extreme. Which in turn leads to more problems for people trying to control their weight
0 -
Nothing like generalisations........
Lol. Yup, you brits never generalize when it comes to those frenchies.
And of course, that wasn't a generalisation! But I get where you were going with that. And entirely agree with your original post. I've lived in France, and stay with French friends on occasion. The way of eating is ingrained. And anyone who 'feels sorry' for the French not snacking doesn't need to. They have a very healthy attitude to food. They partake in 'proper' meals (IMHO), which include everything in moderation, and generally in the right proportions. A visit to a patisserie is regarded as a treat- that is to say, it's not something eaten on the go, or in the car- they sit down and enjoy it as an occasion- the same way they do do a tea or coffee. Food is something they take very seriously (along with a lot of things, and there's my little generalisation about the French! ). We can learn a lot from their culture, as we can from many cultures.
Generalize away. :happy:
As far as the patisserie and the healthy attitude....you mean they eat sweets other than on their cheat day?! Gasps.
Sadly, most of them don't need cheat days! (sigh). I think if I lived there now, every day would be a cheat day!
Nah, you'd be fine cause you'd walk it off. But never in gym shoes, and never with a sweat. Afterall, the french don't exercise either. He he, I'm having fun with the generalizations now. :happy:0 -
Nothing like generalisations........
Lol. Yup, you brits never generalize when it comes to those frenchies.
And of course, that wasn't a generalisation! But I get where you were going with that. And entirely agree with your original post. I've lived in France, and stay with French friends on occasion. The way of eating is ingrained. And anyone who 'feels sorry' for the French not snacking doesn't need to. They have a very healthy attitude to food. They partake in 'proper' meals (IMHO), which include everything in moderation, and generally in the right proportions. A visit to a patisserie is regarded as a treat- that is to say, it's not something eaten on the go, or in the car- they sit down and enjoy it as an occasion- the same way they do do a tea or coffee. Food is something they take very seriously (along with a lot of things, and there's my little generalisation about the French! ). We can learn a lot from their culture, as we can from many cultures.
Generalize away. :happy:
As far as the patisserie and the healthy attitude....you mean they eat sweets other than on their cheat day?! Gasps.
Sadly, most of them don't need cheat days! (sigh). I think if I lived there now, every day would be a cheat day!
Nah, you'd be fine cause you'd walk it off. But never in gym shoes, and never with a sweat. Afterall, the french don't exercise either. He he, I'm having fun with the generalizations now. :happy:
Oh honey- they exercise in a different way! :laugh: (and that's not a generalisation, it's true!!) 0
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