French children don't snack
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I'm curious to know about the average body composition of (typical) French people. Walking a zillion miles is nice, but it won't prevent muscle wasting. How do they maintain a decent amount of lean body mass not lifting weights? And they can't possibly be eating 5 servings of fruit/vegetables a day and a decent amount of protein with all the calories they're eating from bread, cream, butter, and full-fat cheese. Not to mention the alcohol and cigarettes!
I suspect that the truth may be that "(Most) French Women Don't Get Large". That's not enough for me.0 -
I'm curious to know about the average body composition of (typical) French people. Walking a zillion miles is nice, but it won't prevent muscle wasting. How do they maintain a decent amount of lean body mass not lifting weights? And they can't possibly be eating 5 servings of fruit/vegetables a day and a decent amount of protein with all the calories they're eating from bread, cream, butter, and full-fat cheese. Not to mention the alcohol and cigarettes!
I suspect that the truth may be that "(Most) French Women Don't Get Large". That's not enough for me.
Do you realize that not everybody in the US lifts weights, and that only a very, very small percentage does? So most of the US people, and most of the people in the world for that matter, must be a bunch of muscle wasting zombies if they don't follow the MFP "lift heavy" mantra.0 -
I'm not asking about what people in the US do. I'm asking about what (typical) people in France do.I'm curious to know about the average body composition of (typical) French people. Walking a zillion miles is nice, but it won't prevent muscle wasting. How do they maintain a decent amount of lean body mass not lifting weights? And they can't possibly be eating 5 servings of fruit/vegetables a day and a decent amount of protein with all the calories they're eating from bread, cream, butter, and full-fat cheese. Not to mention the alcohol and cigarettes!
I suspect that the truth may be that "(Most) French Women Don't Get Large". That's not enough for me.
Do you realize that not everybody in the US lifts weights, and that only a very, very small percentage does? So most of the US people, and most of the people in the world for that matter, must be a bunch of muscle wasting zombies if they don't follow the MFP "lift heavy" mantra.
Let me amend my earlier statement into a question. How do they eat 5 servings of fruits and vegetables per day and decent amounts of protein with the high-fat ingredients and lots of bread and not eat too many calories?
And yes, I think that most people in the industrialized world are losing muscle mass every year they get older, unless they're doing strength training. The rest of the world probably does a large amount of manual labor to earn its living, so less of a problem there.0 -
I'm curious to know about the average body composition of (typical) French people. Walking a zillion miles is nice, but it won't prevent muscle wasting. How do they maintain a decent amount of lean body mass not lifting weights? And they can't possibly be eating 5 servings of fruit/vegetables a day and a decent amount of protein with all the calories they're eating from bread, cream, butter, and full-fat cheese. Not to mention the alcohol and cigarettes!
I suspect that the truth may be that "(Most) French Women Don't Get Large". That's not enough for me.
Well, I must say none of my French friends exercise much. Jogging yes but heavy lifting definitely not.
Most French people don't eat too much at all. And they're very careful about eating - the think about their food choices. Actually my friends would stop me from eating bread and butter that I love so much.
And definitely French portions are not American portions, maybe 1/3 of American portions.
It's all about enjoying every bite, it's about having pleasure from the food. As I said earlier, even a small macaroon is a piece of enjoyment and they bite it little by little.0 -
I get that, and I emulate the little bites to enjoy a small dessert myself. I would like to know how they are eating smaller portions of meat, fruits and vegetables so they can eat the cream, butter, etc., but still get enough nutrients.Well, I must say none of my French friends exercise much. Jogging yes but heavy lifting definitely not.
Most French people don't eat too much at all. And they're very careful about eating - the think about their food choices. Actually my friends would stop me from eating bread and butter that I love so much.
And definitely French portions are not American portions, maybe 1/3 of American portions.
It's all about enjoying every bite, it's about having pleasure from the food. As I said earlier, even a small macaroon is a piece of enjoyment and they bite it little by little.0 -
dp- mfp site is being wonky0
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/still need to finish the article but in the mean while/
NOPE. I'm french, and snacks have always been part of my life and the one of my friends :smokin:
Now if you excuse me, I'm off to read that article!0 -
Of course French children don't snack. They're too busy smoking.0
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You know, talking about snaking and school I don't think German schools give snacks to kids either. Matter of fact, most kids in Germany go to block classes and are home for lunch.
So this with France doesn't surprise me much.
Matter fact during my time living in Germany I always had a friend (they where German) always ask where I was about 4 pm. I just got home from school. They were always shocked when I told them I was at school.
I believe we had a conversation about lunch once. I don't remember but I think it was the 11 year old son who asked me about lunch. He was shocked to learn I had lunch at school.
So in reality, America is slightly backwards.0 -
I get that, and I emulate the little bites to enjoy a small dessert myself. I would like to know how they are eating smaller portions of meat, fruits and vegetables so they can eat the cream, butter, etc., but still get enough nutrients.Well, I must say none of my French friends exercise much. Jogging yes but heavy lifting definitely not.
Most French people don't eat too much at all. And they're very careful about eating - the think about their food choices. Actually my friends would stop me from eating bread and butter that I love so much.
And definitely French portions are not American portions, maybe 1/3 of American portions.
It's all about enjoying every bite, it's about having pleasure from the food. As I said earlier, even a small macaroon is a piece of enjoyment and they bite it little by little.
No, they eat small portions of everything and if they feel like to lose weight, they reduce eat bread, pasta and deserts. That's simple.
Actually, even with that 1200 calorie diet or less you can get plenty of nutrition. I do the MFP when Im in restaurants with my friends, and I eat more than them, and still my day is often less than 1200 calories.
French really jst don't eat much comparing to Americans.0 -
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I don't usually take pictures of my food.
Butto understand French portions you can take a look at this restaurant. I go there often. You can see pictures and videos of their portions, they're tiny. And in other restaurants its the same.
http://www.lestablettesjeanlouisnomicos.com/page-the-cuisine-113.html0 -
Great idea! As it happens, this seems to be how I raised my two American children. Also, dinner at home with the family was a huge priority.0
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Did you miss the part where I said that most of the world still does tons of manual labor for a living and that makes it less of a problem? Do you think our ancestors didn't do anything but walk? (they were busy carrying tons of crap, climbing trees, building shelters, etc.) Or perhaps, that people dropped dead a lot younger for most of human history? Not to mention that lots of prehistoric populations were hunter/gatherers and ate as much protein as they could get their hot little hands on, which I'm sure wasn't nearly as much as I can get.'Walking a zillion miles is nice, but it won't prevent muscle wasting.
Wha?
Goodness, How DID our ancestors manage without dumb-bells. Ya know, DUMB-bells.
See what I did there?0 -
Thank you very much; this is appreciated!I don't usually take pictures of my food.
Butto understand French portions you can take a look at this restaurant. I go there often. You can see pictures and videos of their portions, they're tiny. And in other restaurants its the same.
http://www.lestablettesjeanlouisnomicos.com/page-the-cuisine-113.html0 -
:laugh:Of course French children don't snack. They're too busy smoking.
I was raised on a Pacific island and snacking is NOT a part of the school day or the culture. However, their obesity rate has steadily gone up in the last 20 years or so. So yeah, snacking is irrelevant. Total amount of daily calories is most likely the culprit.0 -
Snack foods that the French invented:
Pomme Frites or Frites (we call them French Fries for a reason, folks)
Macarons
petit fours
crepes stuffed with ice cream
ice cream (glace)
sorbet
gallettes (shortbread cookies)
Croquettes
chocolate truffles
bon bons
pain au chocolat
chocolat
and countless other things
There is a reason the Bocuse D'Or is a French award named after a French pastry chef. Those things were invented in France.
Actually, many of the snacks we love have their origins in French Cuisine. How many Patisseries are there in France anyway? Isn't there something like 2000 in Paris and surrounding area? Not to be confused with Boulangeries, which are the bakeries.
Wondering how there could be 2000 shops devoted to selling sweet snacks in a city where people don't "snack."
I must disagree.
These are not snacks, those are real food. French don't use French fries for snacking, no way, it's a side dish for meat or fish!
Macaroons are desserts, no way ever used as snacks. If you see how a Parisian woman eats a macaroon, you'd be intrigued. She bites it little by little, it might take her some time to eat the whole piece, she enjoys the moment of eating it.
And sorbet is Persian btw, was widely used in the 1001 nights
Thank you very much GoGlam.
As a French, I am kind of shocked to see that you qualified those very refined meals as..."Snacks". Pastries, like croissants, pains au chocolat are traditionnally (I mean, according to many clichés) served for breakfast, and most of French do not eat that at breakfast: good ones are expensive, and are usually considered as a treat more than a habit. And if they are industrial, they are not worth it. Macaroons are a very good illustration of what I said.
And the treats you named are actually treats, and just treats. Something unusual, exceptional, that you eat slowly, savouring every mouthful of it.
When they become snacks for one, it means one has lost contact with the culture of "eating well and treat yourself: you are what you eat!" that is indeed very, very important in France. It's very easy to eat less and better when you have this sense: you learn (in my case, I had to learn that again) to choose better your meals and potential snacks. That worked as key for me.
I did not snack when I was a child...And I don't remember my childhood was so horrible... (;0 -
I'm wondering, since they do not snack, if their meals are generally larger or the same size (at least compared to the American diet, I mean healthy portions). I know that I eat smaller meals when I snack during the day. I wonder if I was in France and remove the snacks if my meals would be the same size or larger.
Just a thought. Thanks for sharing the interesting article.0 -
Of course French children don't snack. They're too busy smoking.
Damn, you beat me to it!
:laugh:0 -
I am a dedicated snacker. I don't wait until a socially approved set time to eat. I eat when I'm hungry and I stop when I'm no longer hungry. I've never been overweight. That's probably because although I snack frequently, I don't gorge like a pig at the trough when I do it.0
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I have three boys ages 3, 8, and 9 and they snack a lot. They aren't always unhealthy snacks but if they are hungry they eat something. I also make sure they stay active and while they snack a lot (especially my 8 year old who eats all day long) they are also in great shape. Maybe they are lucky because I see kids their age who are overweight. I also try to keep them away from soda but relatives give it to them. My 3 year old has never had soda to date and I plan to keep it that way for as long as possible. When they go to my parents house I don't have to worry much either because my parents are mostly paleo but know how to cook some amazingly yummy stuff that my kids enjoy. I make cookies and treats for them but I don't use sugar, I use stevia and they don't seem to care. I do warn my 8 year old that if he doesn't stay active he might plump up because that boy can DESTROY food. I don't feel like keeping snacks away from them when they are hungry is going to help anything. Our bodies let us know when it needs something, even if on some strict eating schedule. As long as they aren't just lounging on the couch all day watching tv I don't see a problem with allowing them snacks.0
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I'm curious to know about the average body composition of (typical) French people. Walking a zillion miles is nice, but it won't prevent muscle wasting. How do they maintain a decent amount of lean body mass not lifting weights? And they can't possibly be eating 5 servings of fruit/vegetables a day and a decent amount of protein with all the calories they're eating from bread, cream, butter, and full-fat cheese. Not to mention the alcohol and cigarettes!
I suspect that the truth may be that "(Most) French Women Don't Get Large". That's not enough for me.
Do you realize that not everybody in the US lifts weights, and that only a very, very small percentage does? So most of the US people, and most of the people in the world for that matter, must be a bunch of muscle wasting zombies if they don't follow the MFP "lift heavy" mantra.
That is why virtually all body composition formulas take age into account. It's not just muscles, it is bone density too. And when you generalise, you reach "those 20-somethings" or words to that effect that keep popping up on this forum. Even personalised it might be "when I was younger I could..." and some of us have goals along the lines of being able to do something as good as (or better) than when we were younger.
So, to avoid generalising humanity, just did a quick check.
Chinese: "Values for body composition were different when compared with studies in the Caucasian population. In both sexes, height and lean mass decreased in a linear fashion with aging. In men, total body water increased till the 55–65 age group and then decreased. In women, total body water and bone mineral content also decreased with aging in a linear fashion." http://www.aggjournal.com/article/S0167-4943(97)00026-5/abstract
Japanese: "Longitudinal data suggest that arm and leg LTM decreased markedly in men in their 70s, and leg LTM had already decreased in women in their 40s." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23809775
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcopenia "Even Master class athletes who continue to train and compete throughout their adult life, exhibit a progressive loss of muscle mass and strength, and records in speed and strength events decline progressively after age 30."
I wouldn't use the word "zombies", but it is probably safe to assume several billion people are losing lean mass year-on-year.
ETA: Not sure how to clarify my sentence about body composition formulae. Some formulae and body composition testing methods don't take age into account to reach the results (e.g. Bod Pod) but instead do that when the results are interpreted (e.g. "Research has shown that a moderate, natural increase in body fat with age occurs in many individuals. To account for this natural increase, % fat values provided in the Body Fat Rating table on the BOD POD test print-out sheet should be viewed as recommendations for adults 18 years and older, with the values being adjusted upwards by possibly 3-5% fat for older adults."). Others methods take age into account to reach a BF% using the same assumption (e.g. with the Accu-Measure callipers you take the mm of your skinfold and look at the chart - older you are, more internal fat is assumed).0 -
Drinking wine for kids isn't snacking?:laugh:
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Butto understand French portions you can take a look at this restaurant. I go there often. You can see pictures and videos of their portions, they're tiny. And in other restaurants its the same.
Absolutely.
I spend a fair amount of time in France, Spain and Belgium and going back a couple of years when I had a different job, I spent a fair amount of time in Finland. You simply don't see as many obese people (anywhere near) as you do in the UK or US. Culturally I've always noticed the following:
1. France: yes they use so-called 'unhealthy' fats (cream, butter, cheese) but they have them in tiny portions and they eat a lot of fresh veg.
2. Belgium: frankly if you were sedentary you'd be the size of a beachball because their cuisine features lots of meat, frites (which is where they originate from, NOT France) and beer. However they all cycle a lot and on a weekend you see families all together, outside walking, playing sports or going around in some pretty odd 4 person bicycles
3. Spain: cuisine changes massively by region and local ingredients; in-land areas pork, chicken and rabbit feature heavily and on the coast seafood and fish. Regardless there's tons of vegetables.
In all the above the striking thing is that food is a social activity - the evening meal is generally pretty late (in Spain it's common to see families with young children out in restaurants at 9-10pm) and it's eaten together.
Now Finland is scary in it's health levels and I found that seeing an obese person there was a pretty rare occurrence. But what's interesting about Finland is that in the 80s it was a fat and unhealthy nation...but instead of getting worse as the UK/US has done, they've turned it around and have half the obesity levels of the US. How? Well they legislated their way out of obesity by:
1. They changed their farming subsidies: in meat/dairy production they rewarded protein content rather that fat content and they put payments in fruit/veg growing.
2. School meals are free and nutritionally balanced (no pizzas, fries etc). There are no vending machines in schools.
3. Money was ploughed into the creation/maintenance of local sports activities and elderly people are given free spiked shoes or walking poles to encourage them to get out and walk in lower temperatures.
4. The Government funded large-scale competitions pitting town against town in such things as which town could see the best improvements in cholesterol levels or smoking cessation0 -
the goûter at around 4:30 p.m that's a snack lol
I have four daughter, living in France and Germany.
They snack - 4:30 goûter - we go to the boulangerie and buy some patisserie every school day. Usually brioche avec chocolate, pain au chocolat or gauffres normandes.
We also put petit Lu, Ecoliers and other small snacks in their bags. A snack might also be a compote.
While we don't have chips or crackers set out for them, it is something we buy every once in a while. No sodas in the house but a lot of apple juice which might or not get watered down because apfelschorle is just great.
So yeah, French kids snack - but perhaps with a bit more of moderation. And they are very active, in general.
As to smoking - it's way down in the French pop. ever since the various bans and tobacco campaigns.0 -
I checked with my friend Sabine (she is Belgian but her children attend school in France) the kids have two programmed snacks one at 10 am and the other at around 4 (in after school care, but still at the school they attend)- which seems about right to me (as it is more or less the same here in Belgium)
oh and eating at 7? that is for the children, the adults usually closer to 8-8:30; which does seem consistant with restaurants here in Belgium, which often only open again for dinner as from 7 or 7:30 - so even if there at 7 your dinner would arrive earliest at 7:30
interesting thing abou that is although our Belgian restaurants open at "French" hours, the average Belgian household has dinner around 6- I have a theory (based on no research whatsoever) that the further north you are (in Europe) the earlier you eat dinner (my Madrid, Spain friends often have dinner at 11pm or midnight)0 -
When I was in France, my French friends told me that I needed training to eat more.
I often ate only three meals. Possibly 4 meals is just the ticket to keep you going. That and some wine! One of those meals is a snack. Whatever you want to eat you can eat it then. Get your chocolate on once a day. You won`t feel deprived and feel like you have to constantly snack.
So four meals, that would mean your snack could be like 400 calories! Or 500 even! Sounds easy to fit in a work schedule and natural. It would be a real pain to be always eating. You wouldn`t feel hungry if you ate that much.
BTW I live in Japan. No one snacks in the morning but there is a cake shop on every corner. People love to have a slice of cake and cup of tea in the afternoon. Not unlike the French they also drink (alcohol) much more, and are usually thinner than Americans in general. Mostly older people go to the gym, people in their 30`s or 40`s don`t do much besides walk and work. That seems to be enough.
Is it possible that we don`t all have to live the life of a fitness model, or a morbidly obese person, eat food we like in moderation, and enjoy our life? Hmmmmm0 -
In general I dislike stereotypes,like racial or national. Whole load of stereotypes and generalisation bout French women being thin and how they do it, how the children is etc... nah, I don't think we can make the generalisation, i bet there are plenty of women in france with a weight problem.0
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In general I dislike stereotypes,like racial or national. Whole load of stereotypes and generalisation bout French women being thin and how they do it, how the children is etc... nah, I don't think we can make the generalisation, i bet there are plenty of women in france with a weight problem.
Actually no! They are few and far between. That is one of the first things that my relatives notice when they come to Canada (How heavy people here are for the most part).0 -
My children never snacked either. We taught them to stay out of the kitchen except for getting water, and to wait for meal times to eat. They never developed a snacking habit. Pretty much the exception at our house is popcorn if we rent a movie to watch. I do snack since I'm tracking calories though, because sometimes I just want somethings sweet so I'll grab a yogurt cup or fiber bar mid-day.0
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