Parent shaming?
*RANT* So I’m noticing this trend. Especially on social media like TikTok. When did parent shaming become a thing? Literally putting people down and making fun of people for having kids. Calling people “breeders” and acting like if you don’t choose to be *child free* like them your life is over, you are broke and can’t do things like traveling because you can’t do anything once you have children. They worship dogs, but will call children names and post “throw the whole thing out” if a video is posted of a kid doing something naughty. So now a dog’s life should be valued, but a baby’s life means nothing? It’s this new generation of people saying these things and I find it very disturbing. Nobody says anyone has to have children, some of these people shouldn’t be allowed to have anything living under their care with their attitudes. But why is it a trend and funny now to shame people that choose to? To act like you are better than others because you are “child free”? Am I the only who is seeing this more and more?
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Not on any social media where discussion of this is a trend. Now I DO work in a middleschool, so I get to see first hand how kids actually act outside of their parents guidance. And middleschool is usually where you see a shift in attitude changes.
What I PERSONALLY notice is that any kid that tends to act up or become a regular disruptive kid, tends to be one that just doesn't have the attention of their parents. When they get in trouble, parents don't show up to meetings with principal or notes and messages go ignored. And of course when that kid then gets actual school discipline for behavior, they relent and have more attitude.
It's not the kid. They are only a product of their environment. Kids only mimic from experience and what they see. So I can see how some people on social media blame parents for having kids that they don't have any interest in. Not saying it's the right thing to do to post it, but I do see why they do.
Now as for dogs, a lot of people LOVE dogs because unlike kids, dogs don't actually talk back.
And you can actually yell at a dog and say the most derogatory things to it when mad, then in a few minutes be petting it and it's wagging it's tail. Dogs don't get angry at their owners often like kids do.
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It's blowback from years and years and years of society valuing people who choose to have children over people who don't. Despite what you may see on TikTok, in the real world, people who choose not to have children are still looked down upon. Like there is something wrong with that choice.
Rest assured that outside of social media, society still looks highly upon the choice to be a parent.
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »It's blowback from years and years and years of society valuing people who choose to have children over people who don't. Despite what you may see on TikTok, in the real world, people who choose not to have children are still looked down upon. Like there is something wrong with that choice.
Rest assured that outside of social media, society still looks highly upon the choice to be a parent.
Eh... yes and no. Having been on both sides of this equation, I can say I still get a lot of judgment and hate for having only one child (unintentional). Many in the younger generation constantly put me down and refer to me as a "breeder" without knowing a damn thing about my history.
But, having been a person who didn't have a child until later in my 20s, I got a lot of heat from older friends/family members because I was willingly choosing not to have a child at that point. Blah, blah, blah.. you'll regret your decision, blah, blah, blah.
Hell, I even got minor judgment from the OBGYN who did my tubal ligation in my 30s. Despite having already had one child, he made me sign paper work stating that I couldn't sue him over my choice (buyer's remorse) and tried to guilt me into not having the procedure done because *he* liked kids.
So I'd say it still very much goes both ways. There's a lot of societal pressure to have children... and a lot of societal pressure judging people for having children. It entirely depends on who your social circles are.3 -
KosmosKitten wrote: »Despite having already had one child, he made me sign paper work stating that I couldn't sue him over my choice (buyer's remorse) and tried to guilt me into not having the procedure done because *he* liked kids.
So I'd say it still very much goes both ways. There's a lot of societal pressure to have children... and a lot of societal pressure judging people for having children. It entirely depends on who your social circles are.
It used to be that you couldn't even get a tubal unless your husband signed that it was ok. It’s disgusting that women still have to "prove" and/or "sign" to get something as basic as a tubal.
I had my daughter at 19 outside of wedlock. I was judged because I was young and unmarried. I chose not to have more children until my 30's. I was judged because I waited so long for a second. I had fertility issues; judged for that too, because somehow that was my fault for 1) waiting too long 2) waiting till my 30's. I did IF treatments for years; judgement because somehow that equates to me now playing God. Suffered a handful of losses; judgement because obviously I did something wrong to cause my body to miscarry. Decided not to have any more treatments or children as I was quickly approaching my 40's; this became the nastiest of all judgements because apparently you can get fertility treatments have children well into your 40's and even 50's now.
To have children or not is an incredibly personal decision and absolutely no one's business. A woman's worth is not determined by her ability/inability to have children or how many children she does/doesn't have.
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I just know that when I meet new people...first they ask if I'm married (yes, for 17 years), then they ask if I have kids. When I say "No.", I get this sad face, pity-filled "Ohhh..."
The assumption is that if I did not have kids after 17 years of marriage, then it must have been that we're not able to do so. And that I must be sad about it. And now they have nothing they can talk to me about.
I honestly get this A LOT more from total strangers and minor acquaintances than I do from anyone who actually knows me.
As GymGoddess said, it's a personal decision, and I don't feel I have to share my reasons with anyone.8 -
This isn't something I've really noticed...but my social media is pretty limited to whoever I follow on twitter (mostly sport analysts and tv/radio hosts and my friends and family on FB. Don't really care about random people out there that I don't even know.
We didn't have our first kid until I was 36 and my second when I was 38...among my circle of friends IRL, this is/was much more the norm rather than having kids early or not at all. My wife and I started late namely because we did want to enjoy just being married and just being able to do whatever we wanted when we wanted and were pretty on the fence about having kids in general. After five years of marriage, that changed and we decided that we did want kids...so, whoever these random people are out there talking about "breeders" and such, it's just as likely as not that they change their mind at some point. I would assume these people are primarily in their 20s and younger which is way outside of my demographic wheelhouse...so yeah...doesn't really come up within my circles.1 -
I agree that it is a personal decision. In my experience, I've found that most people pass their judgment based on their life and life choices instead of seeing it from someone else's perspective.
I also can say that I think there is some generational changes occurring that effect the way peoples perspective. Anecdotally- A lot of my friends in my age range have waited to have kids and get married. I was the odd one out getting married in my early 20's with kids following shortly after. They didn't care about my kids, and at some points some removed me from social media because they didn't want to see my kids (or anyone elses for that matter) via social media. No hard feelings, it's their life and their choice. Now that they are starting to get married and thinking about kids their perspective has changed.
I'm a big fan of if a person is happy, aren't causing others harm, and they can understand the negative and/or positive results of their decisions then good for them. I have a hard enough time keeping my crap together, let alone worry about others decisions.3 -
I have a lot of kids and am in my early 30s. This is not the norm in my age group. I have had people say incredibly shocking things about me thinking I couldn't hear them (or wouldn't see it, on social media), and even say things to my face. Generally speaking, there is something "off" about these individuals. It's hurtful, and I wish these people had more manners regardless of what they privately think, but the fact that they say these things says more about them than about me.
There is a rather vocal "antinatalist" faction of people, and I think they tend to be Very Online, but I also don't think their numbers are exceptionally large - they're just loud. When people ask me what having a big family is like I am honest about it, and for those who are just unsure about having children or having more children I do like to be encouraging, but that's just for people who ask. I wouldn't dream of offering unsolicited advice to a stranger or acquaintance who didn't ask. I have no idea what they're going through.8 -
Don’t shame me for all of my children...
I HAVE A LOT OF LOVE TO GIVE! 😏9 -
Deadman_Diggingup wrote: »Don’t shame me for all of my children...
I HAVE A LOT OF LOVE TO GIVE! 😏
Yeah but did you adopt any of them because there are already plenty of children in the world who needs parents.**
**denotes sarcasm; this is not a real shaming.3 -
Yeah, I ain't touching this.5
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I have no idea regarding anything social media, this website is about it and I'm not even sure it counts. But I suppose I witness and in ways may even have participated it (unknowingly or it could easily be misconstrued to be such). This is a personal story... AaaaHemmm.
When I met my ex, her daughter and son were 7 and 8.5 respectively... The son still lives with me now 24 years of age (he has some learning issues and is on odsp)... Anyway I still consider them my kids. Okay cut to the story... My daughter had numerous issues, cutting, drugs probably tied to various child hood truama's experienced before me, like absentee father, who attempted murder on my fiance, sexual abuse from one her mom's past boyfriend. Not to mention her mother who had a alcoholic and physically abusive father, which led to her mom having a horrible issues dealing with any kind of stress, and often resorted to crazy off the wall screaming tantrums.
So at a relatively early age... My daughter started cutting, attempted suicide on snapchat or facebook with pills when a boy friend broke up with her. Quit school in grade 10 but not before disappearing and moving into a shelter for homeless teenagers. Needless to say they kicked her out of the shelter, when she wouldn't keep her curfue.. So she then did a couple years of couch surfing, the whole time she was welcome to move back in, no abuse in our house. But she was determined to live life on her terms. I warned her, about what could happen along the way, and it all pretty much happened including getting mesed up and gang rapped, which I went to the hospital with her, and the police station to help her explain everything that happened. etc etc etc. (man this is sounding pretty terrible).
Eventually she found a steady boyfriend... and between the two of them proceeded to rip off every land lord that ever rented to them.... leaving them in the holes for multiple thousands each. She had her first kid by 17, in a completely destroyed apartment, with dirty clothes and dirty face usually smelling of poo and pee. Soon after came a second child, neither of them were ever picked up to be fed. always left in front of TV, a blanket piled up on them to make a bottle holder as she stuck it there mouth. One time we caught her in the act and the poor baby was red hot with heat rashes and drenched in sweat. We explained the importance of holding your child and making connections with them, and never to leave them by themselves all day. But her phone and what was happening on it was the only thing that mattered.
So... At some point they got into the city housing program... but it was only about 6 months till they were booted from there and received a bill for 5000 dollars in Legal fees, rent and damages to the unit.. Coupled with many other similar bills of which 1 I have seen in addition the city one. Knowing she was on her last chance before hitting the street, I welcomed her and her kids back, with a plan to get pay of her city housing debt so she could get back in.. I even got the Government of canada to start paying her child bonuses cause apparently her boyfriend threatened her to turn it all over to him.. Saw her doctor, got letters etc etc...
About 1 month in my fiancé got back from a weekend get away... And when I approached my daughter about the very minimal rent. She had spent the entire amount supposedly at the midway with a new boyfriend. She couldn't even pay her share of the groceries (again very minimal). i asked her to leave. Since then she's lost custody of both kids, then gained one back and is currently almost due with her third child and living somewhere in southern ontario.
The whole point of this long winded lament... She had an enormous circle of friends, many of the which treated land lords the exact same way. And saddl,y many of which spend there entire "Child bonus" which works out to 700 dollars per month per kid on drugs, designer clothes and anything but the children.
So from one point of view people that do that may deserve some degree of "Shaming"... But from the other point of view and the one I truly believe. We as in all of us are 100% a product of the universe and the inexplicable entanglement that ties all things together. From the view point of infinite Time and space, we are exactly what we are at all times for reason of Everything else. Yet at the same time, I know that learning right from wrong and making a change in ones life can also change ones life, but that is still part of the infinite everything.
Anyway... It's complicated.8 -
People need to find something to judge others about. Seems to be human nature these days. Being or not being a parent is simply another thing to judge people over.
Having been a childcare provider for umpteen years, there's a whole lotta judgement passed for using disposable diapers vs. cloth, breast-feeding vs. bottle feeding, and on and on and on.
I've been judged because I drank diet coke, ate meat, didn't eat meat, had 2 pieces of dessert, went on vacation without dh, did laundry so often, my child wasn't wearing mittens/hat/boots/whatever, drove to the store instead of walked, people judging *sigh* gotta love it.
It must be because people are bored or feel that badly about themselves all the time. If people could learn to live their own lives instead of trying to live everybody else's.
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GymGoddessGoals wrote: »Deadman_Diggingup wrote: »Don’t shame me for all of my children...
I HAVE A LOT OF LOVE TO GIVE! 😏
Yeah but did you adopt any of them because there are already plenty of children in the world who needs parents.**
**denotes sarcasm; this is not a real shaming.
😆2 -
Deadman_Diggingup wrote: »GymGoddessGoals wrote: »Deadman_Diggingup wrote: »Don’t shame me for all of my children...
I HAVE A LOT OF LOVE TO GIVE! 😏
Yeah but did you adopt any of them because there are already plenty of children in the world who needs parents.**
**denotes sarcasm; this is not a real shaming.
😆
I knew you would find me funny this one time!2 -
There’s constant shaming of everyone everywhere you look. I feel like all the crap tracking us digitally is really good at tapping into our anxieties to get us to buy stuff, so we’re exposed to content that increases our anxiety and the feeling we could maybe buy something to fix whatever’s wrong with us. The articles recommended to me on my Firefox homepage are particularly anxiety producing.
With all this over-shaming the folks who really ought to be ashamed can just point the finger and say it’s just part of this soul-crushing trend.
Those who feel shame are feeling even more of it while sociopaths are thriving off the chaos.2 -
Has anyone ever thought that couples that don't have kids maybe don't want to because they may have had childhoods that weren't happy? And don't want to chance doing that to their own kid?
And also there are people who are career oriented and may feel they won't be able to care for a child the right way.
I never look at couples who decide not to have children as odd. There are some that can't because of physical and health issues yes, but those that just don't choose to shouldn't be treated any different than other couples that do.
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Has anyone ever thought that couples that don't have kids maybe don't want to because they may have had childhoods that weren't happy? And don't want to chance doing that to their own kid?
And also there are people who are career oriented and may feel they won't be able to care for a child the right way.
I never look at couples who decide not to have children as odd. There are some that can't because of physical and health issues yes, but those that just don't choose to shouldn't be treated any different than other couples that do.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I agree and I wasn’t saying anything negative about people not having them. I said why are people that do being bullied.1 -
Is it even possible to rant about TikTok. I mean, it's TikTok. That's like going to the freak show and saying there's too much freaky *kitten* going on.9
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chuckle_bunny wrote: »Is it even possible to rant about TikTok. I mean, it's TikTok. That's like going to the freak show and saying there's too much freaky *kitten* going on.
It’s not just on there. I was just using it as an example of where I have seen it. The issue isn’t with TikTok. It’s with ignorant people2 -
Madam this is a Wendy’s*RANT* So I’m noticing this trend. Especially on social media like TikTok. When did parent shaming become a thing? Literally putting people down and making fun of people for having kids. Calling people “breeders” and acting like if you don’t choose to be *child free* like them your life is over, you are broke and can’t do things like traveling because you can’t do anything once you have children. They worship dogs, but will call children names and post “throw the whole thing out” if a video is posted of a kid doing something naughty. So now a dog’s life should be valued, but a baby’s life means nothing? It’s this new generation of people saying these things and I find it very disturbing. Nobody says anyone has to have children, some of these people shouldn’t be allowed to have anything living under their care with their attitudes. But why is it a trend and funny now to shame people that choose to? To act like you are better than others because you are “child free”? Am I the only who is seeing this more and more?
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chuckle_bunny wrote: »Is it even possible to rant about TikTok. I mean, it's TikTok. That's like going to the freak show and saying there's too much freaky *kitten* going on.
It’s not just on there. I was just using it as an example of where I have seen it. The issue isn’t with TikTok. It’s with ignorant people
I definitely think you're right that this is a viewpoint that has both become more common, especially among younger generations, and it has become more socially acceptable to say so. Rudeness has also become more socially acceptable (if you're not the target, at least). And people are rude about all kinds of opinions, including expressing ones I agree with (and I hate when that happens!)
Contraception of some form or another has been around since ancient times, but its use was not widespread or reliable until very recently in human history. It's a really big society game changer and I think we forget sometimes that it hasn't always been around. Even though there's more people than ever before, birth rates have plummeted. Lots of people go about their lives and never regularly come into contact with children, which is also a new thing. It used to be that societies skewed heavily toward the young, and now they skew toward the elderly. That's going to impact opinions and behaviors about kids and about the people who have them, especially if they're outliers in their communities.
People really should mind their own business if nobody's causing harm. I do see things a lot that make me sad, and as I posted earlier sometimes people have directed nasty thoughts my way. But I really can't spend my time getting mad about it. A lot of times people who say nasty things have no interest in genuine discussion - they just want to be mean. They're also the only ones who can stop themselves. If it's online, I just turn it off. In person, I walk away.2 -
I'm a person who decided not to have kids ever, I knew from age 13-14 that it was not for me and now at 44 I'm even more sure than ever about that being the right choice for me.
With that said - I can't stand most of the "child free" groups I've joined or tried over the years because of attitudes like you describe. I don't hate kids just because I don't want to be a parent. I also don't need to have a "fur baby" or nieces and nephews underfoot. It's just not for me. I was once a child myself and can't believe people who make really harsh and mean comments about kids. It is really easy to just avoid them if you're not big into kids.
I also find it very disturbing when people who are absentee or neglectful parents assume I'll understand. I probably judge them just as harshly as other parents do (not saying I am right or wrong to do that).
Anyway, yeah. People should just do what makes them happy and what's right for their lives, IMO.6 -
Yes, rudeness abounds. Everywhere. It's disheartening and at times, downright scary. It creates separation of people by trying to control what others think, feel and want. It's definitely okay to have an opinion; everybody should have some of those. But there are right ways and wrong ways to have one. Be thoughtful about it.
My brother, often writes letters to the local newspaper. He is very(VERY) politically and religiously opinionated who refuses to listen to anyone else. DH says he has the right to his opinion and I agree. But his letters are so filled with bitterness and hatred. DH has never read them; I've read them all. He's been called on his attitude so many times. As I said, there's a right way and a wrong way. I know it's vastly different than having children but it still falls under opinions, keeping it compassionate and kind, open-minded.
We have 3 adult children; children are something I always wanted in my life. Every single one of them do NOT want children of their own. I respect that decision. Though I'll most likely never be a grandmother, that's okay with me. I should not be a factor in any of their child bearing decisions. 5 -
I personally haven't seen this anywhere. I have noticed a gentle rhetoric about it being ok to not want children. From an anecdotal perspective I can see why some may push it more strongly as people are invasive af about it and seem to think its ok to make comments like "Georgina where is my grandson?" Or "Georgina why do my kids have no cousins yet?" Or "Georgina you don't have a husband or a child you must be so sad" Dammit I just want abs and money leave me be. I mean, I hear that happens to some people idk 🤷♀️6
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Because inherently, regardless of age, people don't want to feel that others are doing better than them. Maybe the bullying parent is having a tough time with a teenager, but knows that people without kids don't have to deal with that and may envy it. It's not that much different than anything else, just whom it's directed at.Has anyone ever thought that couples that don't have kids maybe don't want to because they may have had childhoods that weren't happy? And don't want to chance doing that to their own kid?
And also there are people who are career oriented and may feel they won't be able to care for a child the right way.
I never look at couples who decide not to have children as odd. There are some that can't because of physical and health issues yes, but those that just don't choose to shouldn't be treated any different than other couples that do.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I agree and I wasn’t saying anything negative about people not having them. I said why are people that do being bullied.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I haven’t really heard this or seen this but I believe it happens. I will say some dog parents go overboard. Cat parents are the worst though, especially the ones that own multiple cats. Ugh.3
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »It's blowback from years and years and years of society valuing people who choose to have children over people who don't. Despite what you may see on TikTok, in the real world, people who choose not to have children are still looked down upon. Like there is something wrong with that choice.
Rest assured that outside of social media, society still looks highly upon the choice to be a parent.
This. And it's insensitive as *kitten* to those of us who don't have kids but might actually want them. It's ableist to assume everyone without kids is without them by choice.
Dogs are cuter and they don't talk back.2 -
Ableist?
Bingo!
*runs to the front clutching card and pearls*2 -
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