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Airlines may start weighing plus size passengers
Replies
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penguinmama87 wrote: »I don't like it, but I also don't have a good solution. I don't mind the actual flying part, but for me all of the logistics involved with taking a trip by air are just too much. My family hasn't flown in years, because even on "cheap" airlines we're priced out. We do like to travel but we stick to the ground for now. I actually rather like car trips.
I haven't figured out what we might do for overseas travel. Do people still go by boat or is it all just freight? We'll have to travel like they did in the old days when you were gone for months or years.
You can go by boat from NY to the UK and it takes about 7 days...about $2,500 round trip per person. You can fly for about $800 round trip per person and be there in 7 hours.1 -
Would be a whole lot easier to just increase the average weight the airlines use.1
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Unfair and pejoritive to target those who appear heavy. Are they also going we weigh people who are heavier because they are over 6' tall? If they really need to weigh passengers, then weigh everyone. If the weight of all passengers (or all passengers in 1 section) is too high, then ramdomly pick people to move or remove until total weight is low enough.
But the real problem is that airlines are just trying to pack on too many people and not leaving any margin. Quit packing in more seats and over-booking flights.
6 -
Unfair and pejoritive to target those who appear heavy. Are they also going we weigh people who are heavier because they are over 6' tall? If they really need to weigh passengers, then weigh everyone. If the weight of all passengers (or all passengers in 1 section) is too high, then ramdomly pick people to move or remove until total weight is low enough.
But the real problem is that airlines are just trying to pack on too many people and not leaving any margin. Quit packing in more seats and over-booking flights.
And how much more are you willing to pay for "unpacked" flights? 10%, 25%, 50%?
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Boy I think of all the posts I’ve seen here saying that being unable to ride amusement park rides kickstarted people’s weight loss.
Can you imagine the stampede if it were airline seats?9 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »penguinmama87 wrote: »I don't like it, but I also don't have a good solution. I don't mind the actual flying part, but for me all of the logistics involved with taking a trip by air are just too much. My family hasn't flown in years, because even on "cheap" airlines we're priced out. We do like to travel but we stick to the ground for now. I actually rather like car trips.
I haven't figured out what we might do for overseas travel. Do people still go by boat or is it all just freight? We'll have to travel like they did in the old days when you were gone for months or years.
You can go by boat from NY to the UK and it takes about 7 days...about $2,500 round trip per person. You can fly for about $800 round trip per person and be there in 7 hours.
Oof. Well, the boat's out, then - I don't need to see that much of the Atlantic. Still, though, the $800 for one person could feed my entire family for a month. If all of us go, you're talking half of our grocery budget for the year - just on airfare!
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kshama2001 wrote: »In 2004 I flew on a very small plane in Costa Rica and all of the passengers and luggage were weighed. I had no problem with this, possibly because while in the USAF I had cargo aircraft load planning training, and so was well aware of the need.
The article is a little confusing because it mentions weighing both plus-sized passengers and choosing passengers using random selection.
I'd be against weighing plus sized people only, as it would then be mathematically impossible to achieve the stated goal of getting an average weight, and this practice would be ... fraught. I think it would be better to weigh everyone. Or if sampling is done, to make it perfectly clear that random selection is being used.
Been on a flight as well where passangers were weighted, to Alderney. I think the plane was for 10 people.
To be honest, it might not be a popular opinion, but very obese people should always buy two seats. There's nothing worse than sitting for hours next to a person who flows over into your seat. And it's double terrible when you're on the spectrum. I don't want to touch people. They should stay away from my seat.
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Back in the early 70’s, a barber was charging me more than his posted rates. His reason was because I had more hair. It’s all about the $$$.3
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I hate sitting next to very obese people. They always spill over into my seat. If someone can’t fit into one seat then they should buy two.11
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I've been on a flight where they weighed EVERY passenger and every bag. It held about 8 people and flew over the Caribbean Ocean from one island to another. I think they even decided where people sat based upon weight. For a plane that size, weight distribution was a big deal.
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I had a slightly bad experience at DisneyWorld because of sitting next to an obese person. So we didn't rent a car (4 families on vacation) and since we were all staying at the same Disney resort, we all rode the buses. On our way home one day, my brother in law was sitting on my left, and I was in the seat next to him against a pole (we're facing inward to the aisles). A lady and her family got on board and the bus was pretty packed already. She headed with her kids down the back where we were. She had to be at least 250+ on a 5'2 frame. I was just about to get up when my BIL pushed me back down and offered his seat to her. She gladly obliged. So now at EVERY STOP where the driver braked, she slid into me (remember I'm against a pole). My BIL totally did this on purpose and I saw the stupid smile on his face everytime we braked.I hate sitting next to very obese people. They always spill over into my seat. If someone can’t fit into one seat then they should buy two.
I owe my BIL back. Still trying to figure out how to do it.
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5 -
I had a slightly bad experience at DisneyWorld because of sitting next to an obese person. So we didn't rent a car (4 families on vacation) and since we were all staying at the same Disney resort, we all rode the buses. On our way home one day, my brother in law was sitting on my left, and I was in the seat next to him against a pole (we're facing inward to the aisles). A lady and her family got on board and the bus was pretty packed already. She headed with her kids down the back where we were. She had to be at least 250+ on a 5'2 frame. I was just about to get up when my BIL pushed me back down and offered his seat to her. She gladly obliged. So now at EVERY STOP where the driver braked, she slid into me (remember I'm against a pole). My BIL totally did this on purpose and I saw the stupid smile on his face everytime we braked.I hate sitting next to very obese people. They always spill over into my seat. If someone can’t fit into one seat then they should buy two.
I owe my BIL back. Still trying to figure out how to do it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Oh no!!0 -
I heard about this yesterday. Unlike a vehicle or ship, WEIGHT matters much much more when traveling by air. How the weight is dispersed on a plane matters much more than vehicles by land travel or by ship for obvious reasons. For the longest time now, aviation has used an average weight per person to decide on passengers and luggage for capacity on a plane. But with the ever growing waistlines of many, it's becoming more of a concern for safety issues. While a few hundered pounds don't matter as much to other vehicles, with planes is does matter much more.
So now airlines are possibly looking at random weighing of passengers who likely exceed the average weight. Personally I do see this a couple of ways: it is a safety issue. If they do institute this, they better have a great back up plan for those that they may deem may not be able to board a flight due to weight overload.
Okay, let's hear it.
https://nypost.com/2021/05/18/airlines-to-weigh-passengers-before-boarding-airplanes/
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Call me skeptical. The issue of passenger weight was never an issue - UNTIL airlines decided that packing passengers into a cabin like cattle was more profitable than having fewer, comfortable, seats. It is weight distribution which matters on an aircraft, unless you're talking about smaller aircraft. A 747 can leave the ground at 0.75 MILLION pounds of weight and fly safely. For the shorter haul planes (737's, A320s), the weight limit is still almost 150,000 pounds. These plane families have flown for decades, with obese passengers a constant, yet never before has the issue of an individual passenger's weight been brought up as a safety issue. One has to ask why, and I surmise that a year of financial devastation to the airline industry is playing a role in that. After all, we haven't seen a raft of stories of long or short haul, full size, planes going down because they were overweight. Now, don't get me wrong - I HAVE seen airlines *redistribute* passengers within a cabin when necessary to address take off weight imbalance issues. But the idea that each individual passenger now has to be evaluated before flight based on overall weight for safety reasons just belies this particular industry's history of lying to squeeze an extra profit out of a single cabin any way they can. [Note, my comments do not reach to the truly small commercial planes like Embraers, deHavillands and Cessnas: those really ARE quite sensitive to total weight and sadly a number of them crash for that reason; e.g. RIP Aaliyah.]
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I had a slightly bad experience at DisneyWorld because of sitting next to an obese person. So we didn't rent a car (4 families on vacation) and since we were all staying at the same Disney resort, we all rode the buses. On our way home one day, my brother in law was sitting on my left, and I was in the seat next to him against a pole (we're facing inward to the aisles). A lady and her family got on board and the bus was pretty packed already. She headed with her kids down the back where we were. She had to be at least 250+ on a 5'2 frame. I was just about to get up when my BIL pushed me back down and offered his seat to her. She gladly obliged. So now at EVERY STOP where the driver braked, she slid into me (remember I'm against a pole). My BIL totally did this on purpose and I saw the stupid smile on his face everytime we braked.I hate sitting next to very obese people. They always spill over into my seat. If someone can’t fit into one seat then they should buy two.
I owe my BIL back. Still trying to figure out how to do it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
At least on a bus you can stand. Out of luck on a plane.2 -
So as a (now) normal weight person who has been glorying in the (now) remarkably comfortable economy cabins of the various Canadian airlines (air canada and westjet), I recently had the experience of flying in a brand new 737 Max.
The particular airline's 737-700's have cabins that are a bit "older" and "tired" with... no chargers! The 737-800 are glorious examples of comfort and modernity for economy seats. Chargers and screens even. Oh, I am sooo checking in to flights that are using them if I can!
The 737 Max so shiny and new... is a *kitten* piece of uncomfortable *kitten*. Jeez. Forget the row of soldiers where I expect to be able to sample everyone's halitosis as soon as masks are no longer "in".
No screens of course... there would have been no room for a flat one! Entertainment is on your smartphone! The aisle seat only has partial under the seat storage. The middle seat has the best storage, but... well, it IS the middle seat. The window seat "appears" to be nice and roomy due to the curvature (under seat storage more generous than aisle but less normal than middle seat)... but it was utterly uncomfortable if you were TRYING to do anything other than primly hold your knees together! Because the curve is at elbow high... not where your feet are. And most certainly a plus person would not be able to navigate the aisle without wafting some "kitten* to the people they move their *kitten* in front off!
All in all, as a just below average tall male (172.25cm)... apparently I need to move to below my current BMI 23 to comfortably fit in a 737 Max as configured....2 -
This issue has been debated for years. I can remember back in the 90s when this was one of the hot topics on talk radio that was sure to generate a lot of calls (especially on a slow news day).
If ever such a rule or regulation was implemented, the only people who would benefit from it are lawyers.2 -
Sort of related to the weight thing is people buying the upgrade exit row seats for more room because of their size. Flight attendants are suppose to check if people seated in those rows are physically able to help in an emergency but really don't have the ability to assess.
Too many times I see people in those seats that don't look physically able to move a door in an emergency and with such poor mobility occupying that seat is a hazard to others on the plane.6 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
The average weight estimated for say a male is 200lbs. Say you have a 300lbs male waiting to get on board. And now 9 others who are over 100lbs of the average board as well. We're now 1000lbs over the average. That's half a ton. That DOES make a difference in flying because it can affect things like takeoff.
Apparently they would weigh them out of sight (maybe right after security check?) so that other passengers don't see it. What I think is odd is that there may be an "opt out" for passengers who get selected. But how then do they cover keeping those passengers from boarding?janejellyroll wrote: »It'd be embarrassing to be pulled out for a weight check before boarding a plane, but I'd rather be embarrassed than be in a plane that crashed due to the overall weight being too high.
This seems like the case of a sucky solution to a real problem . . . but there may not be a better alternative solution.
I would say that they could ask people to self-report their weight at time of ticket purchase, but I don't know if you could count on accurate self-reporting, especially if people felt it might increase ticket price.
I've seen FAMILIES of large people boarding a plane at one time and knowing that they exceed the average weight limit (200lbs for adults and 100lbs for children) by several hundred pounds.
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Why do you see it as boarding/not boarding? Is it not more an issue of how they sit people so that weights are better distributed? A few years back they used to allow more luggage allowance. On international travel at least it has decreased. Maybe because passengers' weights are already accounted for?
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Does the plane only have ten passengers? If it's a normal sized plane I would expect it to have several people over the average weight, like you just described, and several more who are under the average. That's how averages work, and why you need to look at the entire picture. 🙂
The overweight and obese percentage of the US population is 73.6%, and the percentage of underweight is only 1.7%. It's a lot more likely that the plane will have a larger percentage of overweight people than underweight.6 -
tpacheco311 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »
The average weight estimated for say a male is 200lbs. Say you have a 300lbs male waiting to get on board. And now 9 others who are over 100lbs of the average board as well. We're now 1000lbs over the average. That's half a ton. That DOES make a difference in flying because it can affect things like takeoff.
Apparently they would weigh them out of sight (maybe right after security check?) so that other passengers don't see it. What I think is odd is that there may be an "opt out" for passengers who get selected. But how then do they cover keeping those passengers from boarding?janejellyroll wrote: »It'd be embarrassing to be pulled out for a weight check before boarding a plane, but I'd rather be embarrassed than be in a plane that crashed due to the overall weight being too high.
This seems like the case of a sucky solution to a real problem . . . but there may not be a better alternative solution.
I would say that they could ask people to self-report their weight at time of ticket purchase, but I don't know if you could count on accurate self-reporting, especially if people felt it might increase ticket price.
I've seen FAMILIES of large people boarding a plane at one time and knowing that they exceed the average weight limit (200lbs for adults and 100lbs for children) by several hundred pounds.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Why do you see it as boarding/not boarding? Is it not more an issue of how they sit people so that weights are better distributed? A few years back they used to allow more luggage allowance. On international travel at least it has decreased. Maybe because passengers' weights are already accounted for?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Does the plane only have ten passengers? If it's a normal sized plane I would expect it to have several people over the average weight, like you just described, and several more who are under the average. That's how averages work, and why you need to look at the entire picture. 🙂
The overweight and obese percentage of the US population is 73.6%, and the percentage of underweight is only 1.7%. It's a lot more likely that the plane will have a larger percentage of overweight people than underweight.
He said over or under the average. Under the average wouldn't be underweight. The average weight of a 5'9" male age 20-39 is 197 lbs...which is overweight. So there will be people at the average, above the average, and below the average. At 180 Lbs I would be below the average...but not remotely underweight...just not overweight.7 -
I feel like we've sort of lost track of where this all started.
It may be interesting to go back not just to the New York Post article that the OP linked, but also to the FAA advisory it's reporting on**. I guarantee that the situation is much, much more complicated and nuanced than our discussion is generally assuming.
** https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_120-27F.pdf
When an airline is using survey methods (i.e., weighing actual passengers as a basis for estimating weight loads), the advisory includes things like weighing the actual aircraft (required to happen in still air, down to remarkably small tolerances, on a defined schedule, with different rules for different-sized aircraft and different-sized fleets); accounting for fluids like potable water and lavatory fluids, including how those fluids will move when in flight; considering fuel weight including conditions that affect density, depletion of fuel in flight, physical movement of fuel in the aircraft; considering movement of crew and passengers in the cabin (right down to provisions for flight crew leaving the flight deck to use the lavatory), and much, much more. That's just a small sample, from the advisory.
The overall intention seems to be to establish acceptable limits within which each aircraft can safely operate, then make sure each aircraft stays comfortably within those limits. It's a complicated set of statistical estimates and actual measurements.
There are various methods that apply to various craft, and one method of accounting for passenger weights would be to survey actual passengers on a random-sampling basis. Even this is very constrained. These are quotes about that part of it, from the advisory:Regardless of the sampling method used,
an operator has the option of surveying each passenger and bag aboard the
aircraft and should give a passenger the right to decline to participate in any
passenger or bag weight survey. If a passenger declines to participate, the
operator should select the next passenger based on the operator’s random
selection method rather than select the next passenger in a line. If a passenger
declines to participate, an operator should not attempt to estimate data for
inclusion in the survey.An operator that chooses to weigh passengers as part
of a survey should take care to protect the privacy of passengers. The scale
readout should remain hidden from public view. An operator should ensure
that any passenger weight data collected remains confidential.
IME, when examined up close and referring to materials used by those with actual applied expertise, most things are much, much more complicated, detailed and carefully thought out than us average folks tend to assume, when we use our gut feelings and unrelated experiences to evaluate what the pros are doing, and why.
We're just kind of shooting our rank-amateur mouths off, in here. 😆🤣
NYP got a lot of clicks out of agitating people about this, though. 🤣5 -
kshama2001 wrote: »In 2004 I flew on a very small plane in Costa Rica and all of the passengers and luggage were weighed. I had no problem with this, possibly because while in the USAF I had cargo aircraft load planning training, and so was well aware of the need.
The article is a little confusing because it mentions weighing both plus-sized passengers and choosing passengers using random selection.
I'd be against weighing plus sized people only, as it would then be mathematically impossible to achieve the stated goal of getting an average weight, and this practice would be ... fraught. I think it would be better to weigh everyone. Or if sampling is done, to make it perfectly clear that random selection is being used.
Been on a flight as well where passangers were weighted, to Alderney. I think the plane was for 10 people.
To be honest, it might not be a popular opinion, but very obese people should always buy two seats. There's nothing worse than sitting for hours next to a person who flows over into your seat. And it's double terrible when you're on the spectrum. I don't want to touch people. They should stay away from my seat.
I'm not sure how unpopular that opinion is. I agree that if you don't fit into the seat, you should buy two seats. I paid for my seat and don't want someone else in it.
But also the airlines are trying to cram too many people in.4 -
kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »In 2004 I flew on a very small plane in Costa Rica and all of the passengers and luggage were weighed. I had no problem with this, possibly because while in the USAF I had cargo aircraft load planning training, and so was well aware of the need.
The article is a little confusing because it mentions weighing both plus-sized passengers and choosing passengers using random selection.
I'd be against weighing plus sized people only, as it would then be mathematically impossible to achieve the stated goal of getting an average weight, and this practice would be ... fraught. I think it would be better to weigh everyone. Or if sampling is done, to make it perfectly clear that random selection is being used.
Been on a flight as well where passangers were weighted, to Alderney. I think the plane was for 10 people.
To be honest, it might not be a popular opinion, but very obese people should always buy two seats. There's nothing worse than sitting for hours next to a person who flows over into your seat. And it's double terrible when you're on the spectrum. I don't want to touch people. They should stay away from my seat.
I'm not sure how unpopular that opinion is. I agree that if you don't fit into the seat, you should buy two seats. I paid for my seat and don't want someone else in it.
But also the airlines are trying to cram too many people in.
The cramming of more people into the plane seems to be done via reduced seat pitch, the width of the seats of the seats hasn't changed. While I'll blame the lack of sufficient leg room on the drive to add more seats to the plane, spilling into the seat next to you is due to our increasing width.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Unfair and pejoritive to target those who appear heavy. Are they also going we weigh people who are heavier because they are over 6' tall? If they really need to weigh passengers, then weigh everyone. If the weight of all passengers (or all passengers in 1 section) is too high, then ramdomly pick people to move or remove until total weight is low enough.
But the real problem is that airlines are just trying to pack on too many people and not leaving any margin. Quit packing in more seats and over-booking flights.
And how much more are you willing to pay for "unpacked" flights? 10%, 25%, 50%?
We can complain about the lack of room on airlines, but the fact of the matter is, we are voting with our collective wallets for this. The market is providing other options for those willing to pay a higher price, such as Economy Plus seating.2 -
For the record I've been weighed getting on a flight. I think the plane ended up being smaller than they had anticipated and they had a lot of cargo and needed to make sure they would have enough fuel to get us from Vancouver to Hawaii.
I didn't read he article just saying I have seen this happen and it wasn't in private you basically stepped on a scale as you walked away from the gate.2 -
Years ago there was a Candid Camera episode where passengers were weighed along with their luggage. If they were found to be too heavy, they either had to leave their bag or forfeit their in-flight snack.
I know most of you are probably too young to remember this show.1 -
Years ago there was a Candid Camera episode where passengers were weighed along with their luggage. If they were found to be too heavy, they either had to leave their bag or forfeit their in-flight snack.
I know most of you are probably too young to remember this show.
That would never fly (no pun intended) in today's environment.
Speaking of in flight snacks, we just flew for the first time since the pandemic. 2 of the legs were too short for any drink/food service, one they offered drinks, but no food.
The longest one they offered drinks and handed everyone a small pack of generic mini pretzels. Why do they even bother?
Also one of the flights was on a small regional jet, so small you couldn't put a traditional roller carry on bag in the overhead compartment. Couldn't see how a plus size person could be next to someone.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd3pAF-AZkE
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