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New York becomes first U.S. city to order COVID vaccines for restaurants, gyms
kshama2001
Posts: 28,052 Member
in Debate Club
I heard about vaccine passports in Israel in March and posted a thread about it which apparently got zapped. Let's play nice on this thread 
I support NYC on this and would love to see it state wide here in Massachusetts.
I heard about this on NPR. Apparently, most New Yorkers are within a few blocks of a location where they can get vaxxed, and there are also mobile clinics and at-home visits. The $100 incentive has had positive results.
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/03/1024338547/in-nyc-proof-of-vaccination-becomes-a-key-to-the-city
NPR's Ari Shapiro speaks with New York City Health Commissioner Dr. Dave Chokshi about the city's announcement that proof of vaccination will be required to enjoy indoor dining, gyms and performances.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/nyc-require-proof-vaccination-indoor-activities-mayor-2021-08-03/
...NEW YORK, Aug 3 (Reuters) - New York City will become the first major U.S. city to require proof of COVID-19 vaccination at restaurants, gyms and other businesses, Mayor Bill de Blasio said on Tuesday, as the nation grapples with the rapidly spreading Delta variant.
I support NYC on this and would love to see it state wide here in Massachusetts.
I heard about this on NPR. Apparently, most New Yorkers are within a few blocks of a location where they can get vaxxed, and there are also mobile clinics and at-home visits. The $100 incentive has had positive results.
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/03/1024338547/in-nyc-proof-of-vaccination-becomes-a-key-to-the-city
NPR's Ari Shapiro speaks with New York City Health Commissioner Dr. Dave Chokshi about the city's announcement that proof of vaccination will be required to enjoy indoor dining, gyms and performances.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/nyc-require-proof-vaccination-indoor-activities-mayor-2021-08-03/
...NEW YORK, Aug 3 (Reuters) - New York City will become the first major U.S. city to require proof of COVID-19 vaccination at restaurants, gyms and other businesses, Mayor Bill de Blasio said on Tuesday, as the nation grapples with the rapidly spreading Delta variant.
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Same thing is going to happen in the province of Quebec in Canada. Not a big deal in my opinion. One can train at home and order delivery.
If it's just that but you can still go to the grocery store, receive public services etc... then it's the least of my concern.3 -
Locally we’re going back to masks.
My household and friends never stopped using masks. And at this point I don’t think we ever will.13 -
Here in the US, I believe that the whole vaccination/non vaccination is more politically driven than being concerned with actual health concerns. By enlarge, being vaccinated reduces contraction and lowers risk, so for the average healthy American, why wouldn't you get one if it didn't cost you anything? Now do I believe people should be forced too? Nope, but at the same time if they are excluded from participating because of non vaccination, they need to make a choice on what's more important to them. The politics or health and protection for themselves and others?
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Here in the US, I believe that the whole vaccination/non vaccination is more politically driven than being concerned with actual health concerns. By enlarge, being vaccinated reduces contraction and lowers risk, so for the average healthy American, why wouldn't you get one if it didn't cost you anything? Now do I believe people should be forced too? Nope, but at the same time if they are excluded from participating because of non vaccination, they need to make a choice on what's more important to them. The politics or health and protection for themselves and others?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Where’s the standing ovation reaction button?
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆9 -
I basically feel the same way. I got vaxxed sooner after I was eligible and I think I a private business wants to establish rules for entering their business, no problem. But I don't agree with government imposition of those rules.6
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Good. I actually believe the vaccine should be mandatory for everyone. People’s lives are more important at this time than our “freedoms”.21
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Basically there are no laws and you have no rights. People believe in laws and justify their rights. There are only actions and consequences. The best way to exist is to have unconditional compassion and kindness towards others or at least strive to do so. We do our best when we do not hurt anyone.8
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4.3 billion doses given, and nobody has grown an extra arm or turned into a zombie. Almost 4.3 million people dead from covid. Only an idiot would choose not to get immunized if they're able to.31
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Just as I predicted, Quebec moves towards vaccine passport :
https://globalnews.ca/news/8088461/quebec-covid-vaccine-passport/6 -
I definitely think more of this is coming down the pipe. These types of things are a privilege, not a right and I figured at some point the consequence to vaccine avoidance would become punitive.
I was reading another article this morning that it is highly possible that proof of vaccine will be required for airline travel once the vaccines have full FDA approval. I was reading another article talking about health and life insurance companies raising rates on unvaxed people. I actually just received a memo a couple of days ago from the company I have my life insurance through that they will be raising rates on unvaxed plan participants starting January 1, 2022.
In NM if you are faculty or a student of a state university, vaccines are mandated to be in person...I've also heard of this with many other universities around the country.11 -
Hopefully, the full approval by the FDA is coming soon. This will give businesses, universities, etc, the legal cover they need to require that their employees/patrons/students be vaccinated. Many medical facilities have required their employees to get vaccinations in the past (influenza, chicken pox, etc), so there is precedent.
The fact that it's still under emergency authorization gives people grounds to bring a lawsuit.6 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Hopefully, the full approval by the FDA is coming soon. This will give businesses, universities, etc, the legal cover they need to require that their employees/patrons/students be vaccinated. Many medical facilities have required their employees to get vaccinations in the past (influenza, chicken pox, etc), so there is precedent.
The fact that it's still under emergency authorization gives people grounds to bring a lawsuit.
Except, at least in Texas, those lawsuits have been thrown out. The Emergency Use Authorization status has nothing to do with it.
"This is not coercion. Methodist (the Hospital) is trying to do their business of saving lives without giving them the COVID-19 virus. It is a choice made to keep staff, patients, and their families safer. [Plaintiffs] can freely choose to accept or refuse a COVID-19 vaccine; however, if [they] refuse, [they] will simply need to work somewhere else."12 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I definitely think more of this is coming down the pipe. These types of things are a privilege, not a right and I figured at some point the consequence to vaccine avoidance would become punitive.
I was reading another article this morning that it is highly possible that proof of vaccine will be required for airline travel once the vaccines have full FDA approval. I was reading another article talking about health and life insurance companies raising rates on unvaxed people. I actually just received a memo a couple of days ago from the company I have my life insurance through that they will be raising rates on unvaxed plan participants starting January 1, 2022.
In NM if you are faculty or a student of a state university, vaccines are mandated to be in person...I've also heard of this with many other universities around the country.
My university in Colorado has mandated vaccines for all employees except for approved medical and religious exemptions. Medical exemptions require a doctor's note, I'm not sure what they're doing about religious exemptions. Unvaccinated employees who have to be on campus will be required to wear masks, social distance, and test on a regular basis (weekly testing will be most likely from what I've heard). Those without documented exceptions may also face disciplinary action potentially up to termination if they don't comply with the policy. We've also made vaccination a condition of employment, so all of our newer job postings and letters of offer specifically state the expectation that new employees will be fully vaccinated prior to their university start date.
I don't think there's been a whole lot of pushback on our campus about the new policy. We're an academic medical center with three hospitals on our campus and two additional hospitals that we work closely with, so mandated vaccines aren't terribly unusual for either faculty or staff. I had an office in one of the hospitals--just an office, no patient contact whatsoever--and had to have a measles booster before I could get my keys and flu shots every year.
I'm becoming more interested to hear whether the campus will in fact, fully reopen after Labor Day. We're expecting to hear in the next day or two that masks will be required in all indoors areas again. The school I work for already has two documented cases of vaccinated people that are currently sick with the delta variant, so it will be interesting to see what the administrative response is, especially since we're so close to bringing all the students back in the next few weeks.1 -
Good. I actually believe the vaccine should be mandatory for everyone. People’s lives are more important at this time than our “freedoms”.
I heard a blip of this interview on the radio with this older woman who said she was against mandatory vaccinations because 'it takes away my individualism'.
Gimme a break. You want individualism? Get a unique tattoo, wear a fashion statement to call out your individualism. But don't risk being on a ventilator or worse, infecting innocent children.
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BuddhaBunnyFTW wrote: »Basically there are no laws and you have no rights. People believe in laws and justify their rights. There are only actions and consequences. The best way to exist is to have unconditional compassion and kindness towards others or at least strive to do so. We do our best when we do not hurt anyone.
Not hurting anyone includes protecting them by protecting yourself. I would feel absolutely horrible if I knew I caused someone to be terribly sick, even without a pandemic going on. And children can get awfully sick with Covid. 8 -
Just as I predicted, Quebec moves towards vaccine passport :
https://globalnews.ca/news/8088461/quebec-covid-vaccine-passport/
I wish they would do it here (Chicago), or that more businesses, other forums, would do it, plus city employees/schools, but I have suspected it would be too political, and the positions taken by the teachers' unions and the Boston mayor make me think I am right.4 -
YellowD0gs wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Hopefully, the full approval by the FDA is coming soon. This will give businesses, universities, etc, the legal cover they need to require that their employees/patrons/students be vaccinated. Many medical facilities have required their employees to get vaccinations in the past (influenza, chicken pox, etc), so there is precedent.
The fact that it's still under emergency authorization gives people grounds to bring a lawsuit.
Except, at least in Texas, those lawsuits have been thrown out. The Emergency Use Authorization status has nothing to do with it.
"This is not coercion. Methodist (the Hospital) is trying to do their business of saving lives without giving them the COVID-19 virus. It is a choice made to keep staff, patients, and their families safer. [Plaintiffs] can freely choose to accept or refuse a COVID-19 vaccine; however, if [they] refuse, [they] will simply need to work somewhere else."
The 7th Circuit agreed with Indiana U that their policy (either vaccines, attend remotely, or -- with some sort of health or conscience objection -- wear a mask in public spaces and be tested frequently) was legal.4 -
richardgavel wrote: »I basically feel the same way. I got vaxxed sooner after I was eligible and I think I a private business wants to establish rules for entering their business, no problem. But I don't agree with government imposition of those rules.
I disagree.
I think it is better when governments make something important mandatory for all relevant businesses.
Examples in Australia - flu vaccine mandatory for all workers and visitors to Aged Care facilities.
Each organisation doesnt make its own rule - it is a legal requirement, not an organisational discretion thing, and applies nationally to all to them.
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Good. I actually believe the vaccine should be mandatory for everyone. People’s lives are more important at this time than our “freedoms”.
I heard a blip of this interview on the radio with this older woman who said she was against mandatory vaccinations because 'it takes away my individualism'.
Gimme a break. You want individualism? Get a unique tattoo, wear a fashion statement to call out your individualism. But don't risk being on a ventilator or worse, infecting innocent children.
Exactly.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »richardgavel wrote: »I basically feel the same way. I got vaxxed sooner after I was eligible and I think I a private business wants to establish rules for entering their business, no problem. But I don't agree with government imposition of those rules.
I disagree.
I think it is better when governments make something important mandatory for all relevant businesses.
Examples in Australia - flu vaccine mandatory for all workers and visitors to Aged Care facilities.
Each organisation doesnt make its own rule - it is a legal requirement, not an organisational discretion thing, and applies nationally to all to them.
I agree with your thinking because if there is any wiggle room at all left to manipulate, there are always people who will do it. Because well, surely the business owner cannot mean them? They feel fine. 
My niece and her dh run a medical neurology office and my niece has encountered so many 'better than you' people who've refused to mask up entering their office. She turns them away and they get pretty bitter about it. She said she even had another dr. who came in with his wife who wanted to speak with the neurologist 'for just a minute' and they both refused to don a mask. Shame on them. Don't feel all so damn entitled. ESPECIALLY in any medical environment or care facility. Or if anyone mandates it.
Com'on disagrees. 10 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I definitely think more of this is coming down the pipe. These types of things are a privilege, not a right and I figured at some point the consequence to vaccine avoidance would become punitive.
I was reading another article this morning that it is highly possible that proof of vaccine will be required for airline travel once the vaccines have full FDA approval. I was reading another article talking about health and life insurance companies raising rates on unvaxed people. I actually just received a memo a couple of days ago from the company I have my life insurance through that they will be raising rates on unvaxed plan participants starting January 1, 2022.
In NM if you are faculty or a student of a state university, vaccines are mandated to be in person...I've also heard of this with many other universities around the country.
My last company got a big break on insurance rates because our average age was much younger than their norm.
I'm for higher rates for the unvaxxed.5 -
Hi from NYC!
So writing this from the village whilst at a restaurant having a vino…
It’s being normalized here in most establishments to show proof and wear a mask. I work for a place that requires proof of vax. 99% of our patrons are keen to show their proof and move on.
If one can’t or won’t be vaccinated.. outdoor dining is still an option, outdoor concerts are available.. there are still a lot of options. 🤷🏼♀️
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California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.13 -
Nooshi - I fully expect that to be mandated here in Australia soon too for all workers in Aged care and public hospitals - given this is already the case with flu vaccine - and for some other health areas, also other vaccines - whooping cough, Hep B, MMRV4
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A lot of US companies are starting to mandate all their employees be vaccinated. US Air and Tyson alone are a quarter million American jobs that are only available to the vaxxed. They're the tip of the iceberg. A hospital chain, I forget which one, fired some high level managers for refusing to vaccinate, CNN fired people recently for going into the office unvaccinated. This trend won't be universal, but the number of jobs available to the unvaxxed is shrinking and it mostly isn't the best jobs left.8
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The Venn diagram for people who don’t understand science, people who are anti vaxers, and people who are anti maskers is essentially a circle.12
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MargaretYakoda wrote: »The Venn diagram for people who don’t understand science, people who are anti vaxers, and people who are anti maskers is essentially a circle.
I agree with that. But also admit, when vaccinations were first being distributed, between fear and ignorance, I was hesitant to get it. Luckily I had no choice because I was helping my sister with her dh at the time.
Fear because I had no clue how it would affect me physically and I'm the biggest wimp at heart.
And ignorance because I didn't know if the efficacy of it would be worth the risk.
Months later, I'm so glad I had the vaccine and will not hesitate to get all recommended boosters, etc.
I think too many people are letting their fears take hold. And *that*, I understand.
And then you've got the ones who are claiming their freedoms and rights are being taken away. And *that* I do not understand because ultimately everybody's freedom and rights will be taken away.
But then again, I don't have a problem with being told what I can/cannot do. Our parents do it. Our employers do it. Our schools do it. Our government does it. Do I still feel free?? You bet your butt I do. I'm free to take a walk and not have my town shot to hell through mortar attacks. I'm free to go to our lovely local library and pick books I like. I'm free to practice any religion I choose, if I chose to. I'm free to go to my grocery store and pick up whatever I choose to for dinner. I was free to get an education and still am if I chose to. I'm free to simply visit my friends and neighbors, whether masked/vaxxed or not but feel I don't want to strip their freedom of being healthy by being thoughtless.
JMO.11 -
paperpudding wrote: »Nooshi - I fully expect that to be mandated here in Australia soon too for all workers in Aged care and public hospitals - given this is already the case with flu vaccine - and for some other health areas, also other vaccines - whooping cough, Hep B, MMRV
I’m glad to hear it. Right now, people’s lives are more important than our freedoms IMO.4 -
I guess I just don’t get what all the fuss is about. According to the CDC, vaccinated individuals can pass on the same viral load as unvaccinated so it seems like the end result is the same where ever there are groups of people, vaccinated or unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated, the risk seems to be the same. Less chance of getting sick but the same chance of passing on to someone who may not be able to be vaccinated due to whatever reason. Seems like the focus should still be on masking and social distancing not excluding/including different parts of society. I also find it interesting (when you dig for it) that natural antibodies seem to be proving to have similar efficacy to the vaccines. I probably would not have bothered to be vaccinated if I knew I had already had it.6
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@jogman, I read an article yesterday (just an article, didn't delve into the science behind it) that cited a study that showed that people who had covid and then received one vax (I think it was phizer but I wouldn't swear) had a marginally greater degree of protection than either fully vaxxed or covid-recovered people. Hope it turns out to be true 2
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