Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
New York becomes first U.S. city to order COVID vaccines for restaurants, gyms
Replies
-
psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
Nursing is hard. My mom is an RN and recently retired. The main thing she would complain about were the working conditions. Patients can assault you and you have no recourse. Patient’s family members can curse you out for no reason and you’re not allowed to ask them to leave the room. Management tends to suck and if there is an issue, rarely is anything done to resolve it. I am a PA and work with a lot of nurses. I have so much respect for them. Things need to change so that we can recruit and maintain more nurses. However, it is disgraceful to be a healthcare worker and refuse to be vaccinated because you’re risking infecting your patients. The ones that refuse should be fired.
Nurses will never improve their situation as long as they stand divided. We have a saying Doc... Can I call you Doc? That's what we refer to our providers as... anyways.... Nurses eat their own. Until that is not true, nothing is going to happen.
However, it is disgraceful to be a healthcare worker and refuse to be vaccinated because you’re risking infecting your patients. The ones that refuse should be fired.
Interesting opinion Doc. Well..... hmmm..... I had a spiel about diseases that medical personnel spread and no one discriminates against them ......blah blah..... other vaccines that stop diseases not being required to work.... blah... blah....... You know all these things. Then I was going to go into how it could become a slippery slope.... blah... blah .... blah.... , buts that's a logical fallacy. It comes down to this for me..... We support our patients decisions of self determination...... so, I also support my fellow healthcare workers decisions of self determination. As Nietzsche advised..... Careful how long you stare into the abyss...
It is irresponsible to remain unvaccinated and as a healthcare worker, this is something that all should be required to do. I also believe we should be mandated to get the flu and other vaccines. As it is at my hospital, the flu vaccine is not mandated but if you opt out you have to wear a mask.
I worked front lines during our Covid surge and despite wearing all protective gear, still caught Covid. I’m sure I got it at work as I didn’t go anywhere else and was exposed to so many patients with Covid. First chance I got, I got vaccinated. This was despite already having caught Covid and being pregnant at the time. I did my research and trust the science. There is no excuse to not be vaccinated. None.
Protecting others and not killing them is more important than our “freedoms”. We should not have the freedom to infect and potentially kill others if we can take steps to prevent this.16 -
psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you.......
Hi there. Waving a white flag of peace.
For medical personnel refusing to vaccinate, will there be other criteria in place to guarantee protection to the patient? Or I should say as much of a guarantee as there can be. Because we all know nothing in this whole tragic pandemic is coming with any guarantees but rather better odds. Much more frequent testing? Double masking? That sort of thing? There has got to be a good healthy compromise for everybody. Nobody wants to lose good nurses; they are the heart that cares for patients, along with the assistants and aides out there. God knows there aren't enough to go around already and to have huge numbers walk away because they're being forced to vaccinate......there's got to be a way to keep them and to protect the patients.
I appreciate the offer of the "white flag" ma'am, but it is not needed.... I am unwavering in my support of my fellow workers.I think that people should have the right to choose if they want the vaccine or not, meaning it should not be illegal to not get vaccinated, but I also support the right of any business or government agency to require it, to work on site and or enter the premises. If you make a choice you live with the consequences good and bad. I made the choice to get vaccinated and my children all over 12 are also vaccinated, I evaluated the risks associated with the vaccine against the risks of not, and made my choice. As a result we have more options for businesses we can enter which Yay!! However if one of us had had an adverse reaction i would not have blamed fhe science I knew the risk and I made a choice. I understand that low risk does not mean no risk.
Now for people who choose not to vaccinate, they have to accept the outcome of their choices m, meaning restrictions in access to certain businesses and their ability to be employed in certain fields such as healthcare.
My final thoughts here are that since there are instances in which it’s not a choice, children under 12, and certain health conditions, I think businesses should offer alternatives to service those folks. Telehealth for healthcare, online school, and curbside to go are all examples of ways of still offering the service to someone unvaccinated.
Make you choice m, I respect your choice, but you need to also respect and accept the outcomes of your choice.
I agree with private businesses right to choose.....but..... in a market that is already depleted of workers, forcing someone to choose, might not be wise. Many of us work in niche parts of nursing. We become highly skilled at what we do. Thus, not making it easy to replace quickly. New graduate nurses need time to mature, at least a year on the floor. I receive weekly, unsolicited, text messages to go on contracts around the country. I mean, its not the 8-10k a week ICU nurses were getting, closer to 3-4k a week, but still, nearly exotic dancer money. I am staying where I am at, because I made a promise to someone, but when that is done, I'm out.
I hear there's a shortage of pilots because they couldn't get in enough flight-time to keep their credentials current during covid. Maybe we should forget about those pesky rules against drinking before and during flying. And let's not warn the passengers.
We hear all the time about nurses and doctors getting burned out from dealing with huge surges of covid patients. It was one of the reasons we were all given for staying home as much as possible, wearing masks out in public, and getting vaccinated as soon as we can. To be told that we're now supposed to just risk getting exposed by anti-vax medical personnel if we get injured, ill, or have a stroke is infuriating. It's bad enough the infections patients have risked for decades in a hospital, yet you just about never see a doctor or nurse wash their hands when they enter a patient's room. And who wants to risk pissing off the person responsible for your care by reminding them?
But even more than patients, I feel sorry for other medical workers who have to go to work every day and worry about being exposed by anti-vax co-workers and taking it home to their families.10 -
This whole self-determination crap is crap. That doesn’t and shouldnt apply when it comes to potentially harming others. This is why driving drunk is illegal, why you can’t just legally assault and kill others, and do a whole hoard of other harmful things. If someone has drug resistant tuberculosis and refuses to take their medication, the government can and will detain them and forcibly medicate them until their treatment is complete. If someone has HIV, there are laws now that you can’t knowingly spread it to others. Smoking in public is now illegal in many places and I support that because I have a right not to inhale that poison in public. Vaccinations should be mandatory for everyone. Period.17
-
psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
Nursing is hard. My mom is an RN and recently retired. The main thing she would complain about were the working conditions. Patients can assault you and you have no recourse. Patient’s family members can curse you out for no reason and you’re not allowed to ask them to leave the room. Management tends to suck and if there is an issue, rarely is anything done to resolve it. I am a PA and work with a lot of nurses. I have so much respect for them. Things need to change so that we can recruit and maintain more nurses. However, it is disgraceful to be a healthcare worker and refuse to be vaccinated because you’re risking infecting your patients. The ones that refuse should be fired.
Nurses will never improve their situation as long as they stand divided. We have a saying Doc... Can I call you Doc? That's what we refer to our providers as... anyways.... Nurses eat their own. Until that is not true, nothing is going to happen.
However, it is disgraceful to be a healthcare worker and refuse to be vaccinated because you’re risking infecting your patients. The ones that refuse should be fired.
Interesting opinion Doc. Well..... hmmm..... I had a spiel about diseases that medical personnel spread and no one discriminates against them ......blah blah..... other vaccines that stop diseases not being required to work.... blah... blah....... You know all these things. Then I was going to go into how it could become a slippery slope.... blah... blah .... blah.... , buts that's a logical fallacy. It comes down to this for me..... We support our patients decisions of self determination...... so, I also support my fellow healthcare workers decisions of self determination. As Nietzsche advised..... Careful how long you stare into the abyss...
It is irresponsible to remain unvaccinated and as a healthcare worker, this is something that all should be required to do. I also believe we should be mandated to get the flu and other vaccines. As it is at my hospital, the flu vaccine is not mandated but if you opt out you have to wear a mask.
I worked front lines during our Covid surge and despite wearing all protective gear, still caught Covid. I’m sure I got it at work as I didn’t go anywhere else and was exposed to so many patients with Covid. First chance I got, I got vaccinated. This was despite already having caught Covid and being pregnant at the time. I did my research and trust the science. There is no excuse to not be vaccinated. None.
Protecting others and not killing them is more important than our “freedoms”. We should not have the freedom to infect and potentially kill others if we can take steps to prevent this.
Don't lecture me about "front line" working. I have been on the front lines for one major outbreak and one surge. Yes, we get them here. Try being surrounded by 600 positive patients, with little to no PPE because the hospitals received first go when supplies were short. Having a nursing staff of usually 16 and being down to 6 -7 for months. Knowing you are sick, but so is everyone else, with 10 being bad enough to be out of work, and still showing up. I was lucky to have a mild case. Watching it spread because of close quarter living, knowing there is nothing you can do about it. Pile that with the usual day to day activities of prison medical. Those who stood beside me I WILL support, come hell or high water. whatever their choice may be. My employer knows my sentiments. I told them so. I made my decision based on the fact that I could keep serving ,if things got bad again.5 -
psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
Nursing is hard. My mom is an RN and recently retired. The main thing she would complain about were the working conditions. Patients can assault you and you have no recourse. Patient’s family members can curse you out for no reason and you’re not allowed to ask them to leave the room. Management tends to suck and if there is an issue, rarely is anything done to resolve it. I am a PA and work with a lot of nurses. I have so much respect for them. Things need to change so that we can recruit and maintain more nurses. However, it is disgraceful to be a healthcare worker and refuse to be vaccinated because you’re risking infecting your patients. The ones that refuse should be fired.
Nurses will never improve their situation as long as they stand divided. We have a saying Doc... Can I call you Doc? That's what we refer to our providers as... anyways.... Nurses eat their own. Until that is not true, nothing is going to happen.
However, it is disgraceful to be a healthcare worker and refuse to be vaccinated because you’re risking infecting your patients. The ones that refuse should be fired.
Interesting opinion Doc. Well..... hmmm..... I had a spiel about diseases that medical personnel spread and no one discriminates against them ......blah blah..... other vaccines that stop diseases not being required to work.... blah... blah....... You know all these things. Then I was going to go into how it could become a slippery slope.... blah... blah .... blah.... , buts that's a logical fallacy. It comes down to this for me..... We support our patients decisions of self determination...... so, I also support my fellow healthcare workers decisions of self determination. As Nietzsche advised..... Careful how long you stare into the abyss...
It is irresponsible to remain unvaccinated and as a healthcare worker, this is something that all should be required to do. I also believe we should be mandated to get the flu and other vaccines. As it is at my hospital, the flu vaccine is not mandated but if you opt out you have to wear a mask.
I worked front lines during our Covid surge and despite wearing all protective gear, still caught Covid. I’m sure I got it at work as I didn’t go anywhere else and was exposed to so many patients with Covid. First chance I got, I got vaccinated. This was despite already having caught Covid and being pregnant at the time. I did my research and trust the science. There is no excuse to not be vaccinated. None.
Protecting others and not killing them is more important than our “freedoms”. We should not have the freedom to infect and potentially kill others if we can take steps to prevent this.
Don't lecture me about "front line" working. I have been on the front lines for one major outbreak and one surge. Yes, we get them here. Try being surrounded by 600 positive patients, with little to no PPE because the hospitals received first go when supplies were short. Having a nursing staff of usually 16 and being down to 6 -7 for months. Knowing you are sick, but so is everyone else, with 10 being bad enough to be out of work, and still showing up. I was lucky to have a mild case. Watching it spread because of close quarter living, knowing there is nothing you can do about it. Pile that with the usual day to day activities of prison medical. Those who stood beside me I WILL support, come hell or high water. whatever their choice may be. My employer knows my sentiments. I told them so. I made my decision based on the fact that I could keep serving ,if things got bad again.
I will say whatever I want. Many are dying now because some selfish and irresponsible people refuse the vaccines. They are putting others health at risk and as healthcare workers they should know better. We were also short staffed and had to work in the freezing cold outdoor overflow tents because our hospital was so impacted. We were also short on supplies and had to reuse masks and were not able to be fit tested for months for N95s. Yes, those types of people should be fired. I stand by that 100% and wouldn’t want them caring for me. Those are the same people who refuse masks in public. They don’t care about others and are only working for a paycheck.17 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
And the bolded is not the fault of the medical provider (or lawyer, or accountant, auto mechanic or anyone else with a skill one needs).
One needs to be an adult and question what they don't understand or need clarified.4 -
Interesting opinion Doc. Well..... hmmm..... I had a spiel about diseases that medical personnel spread and no one discriminates against them ......blah blah..... other vaccines that stop diseases not being required to work.... blah... blah....... You know all these things. Then I was going to go into how it could become a slippery slope.... blah... blah .... blah.... , buts that's a logical fallacy. It comes down to this for me..... We support our patients decisions of self determination...... so, I also support my fellow healthcare workers decisions of self determination. As Nietzsche advised..... Careful how long you stare into the abyss...
Other vaccines for infectious diseases not being required??
Glad that isnt the case where I live - public health staff DO require vaccines ( or serological proof of immunity) for relevant diseases- flu vaccine, hepatitis B, whooping cough, MMRV
Highly likely covid vaccine will be added to that.
Already the case for all workers in Aged Care facilities - mandatory to have at least first dose by Sept 17.
If you want to be free for 'self determination' don't work in health care ( and preferably live on an island by yourself)10 -
psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you.......
Healthcare workers should ABSOLUTELY have the right to self determination. 🙂
They aren't just entitled to a job whose criteria they no longer meet, though. Employers have determination too.16 -
NorthCascades wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you.......
Healthcare workers should ABSOLUTELY have the right to self determination. 🙂
They aren't just entitled to a job whose criteria they no longer meet, though. Employers have determination too.
With it said that way, I was just bumped over the fence to the side of mandatory vax. BUT I'm lucky in the fact that I had a mild case of Covid in November, then was completely vaxxed by March, with little side affects. What about all the cases we read about who have terrible side affects from the vaccine? I'm not arguing for/against with bringing this question up but rather expressing concerns for people who have valid fears. I'm also not including those who feel their freedoms are being stripped because....well I won't get into my thoughts on that.
BUT that still doesn't give a good resolution of the shortage of nurses(or other medical professionals) who refuse to get vaccinated. As I said, there has GOT to be some middle of the road agreements where everyone can stay as safe as possible.1 -
I wish I could've been a fly on any wall back in 1918 to hear what conversations were like then. I assume people were much more likely to do what was expected of them, for the good of all. People are very different now compared to then.4
-
I think if all these un-vaxxed healthcare workers get fired and can't collect unemployment like is now being considered - they might have a change of heart. Training for years, having a decent job with good pay and then choosing to quit that job and having not enough money to live on may be enough. If the US government refuses to pay unemployment for those who lose their jobs due to being un-vaxxed, that will help this a lot. Or it won't. It's going to play out one way or the other without my input, that's for sure.
We just had a big outbreak in a Veterans' care home here in WA again. 97% of residents were vaxxed, only 52% of staff. How is this still happening? Families can't visit, but un-vaxxed employees are in there every day? Wow.*
https://komonews.com/news/local/1-dead-32-infected-in-covid-outbreak-at-kitsap-veterans-home
I would imagine a lot of healthcare workers are suffering with mental health issues right now, and that makes bad decisions a lot easier to make. This whole thing has been the biggest cluster I've ever seen in over six decades of life. People are so quick to argue and everyone is so confused and fearful.
Sars-Cov2 - begone.
*edited to add link7 -
NorthCascades wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you.......
Healthcare workers should ABSOLUTELY have the right to self determination. 🙂
They aren't just entitled to a job whose criteria they no longer meet, though. Employers have determination too.
With it said that way, I was just bumped over the fence to the side of mandatory vax. BUT I'm lucky in the fact that I had a mild case of Covid in November, then was completely vaxxed by March, with little side affects. What about all the cases we read about who have terrible side affects from the vaccine? I'm not arguing for/against with bringing this question up but rather expressing concerns for people who have valid fears. I'm also not including those who feel their freedoms are being stripped because....well I won't get into my thoughts on that.
BUT that still doesn't give a good resolution of the shortage of nurses(or other medical professionals) who refuse to get vaccinated. As I said, there has GOT to be some middle of the road agreements where everyone can stay as safe as possible.
Not picking on you, personally, but I'm really tired of this excuse/fear from people.
The absolute WORST of the documented immune responses from the vaccine is 1-2 days of fever, chills, body aches, headaches. Some people I know where completely knocked out and couldn't get out of bed for 24 hours.
I wouldn't call this a "side effect"...that's reserved for effects that the actual components of a medication have on a person. This is your body's immune response triggered by the vaccine.
As adults, I'll assume we have all had nasty colds or flus in our lives, many lasting multiple days or even weeks. For sure, they are not fun. But, it's not like we've never experienced such symptoms before.
With the vaccine, we have the luxury of planning and scheduling our doses so that if you are one of the people who gets that immune response, you can minimize the disruption to your life.
Even for the people I know who were flattened for a day or two...ZERO of them regretted getting the vaccine. One or two days of feeling like crap is way better than getting a severe case of COVID.
I really think it's just people looking for excuses.13 -
NorthCascades wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you.......
Healthcare workers should ABSOLUTELY have the right to self determination. 🙂
They aren't just entitled to a job whose criteria they no longer meet, though. Employers have determination too.
With it said that way, I was just bumped over the fence to the side of mandatory vax. BUT I'm lucky in the fact that I had a mild case of Covid in November, then was completely vaxxed by March, with little side affects. What about all the cases we read about who have terrible side affects from the vaccine? I'm not arguing for/against with bringing this question up but rather expressing concerns for people who have valid fears. I'm also not including those who feel their freedoms are being stripped because....well I won't get into my thoughts on that.
BUT that still doesn't give a good resolution of the shortage of nurses(or other medical professionals) who refuse to get vaccinated. As I said, there has GOT to be some middle of the road agreements where everyone can stay as safe as possible.SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Not picking on you, personally, but I'm really tired of this excuse/fear from people.
The absolute WORST of the documented immune responses from the vaccine is 1-2 days of fever, chills, body aches, headaches. Some people I know where completely knocked out and couldn't get out of bed for 24 hours.
I wouldn't call this a "side effect"...that's reserved for effects that the actual components of a medication have on a person. This is your body's immune response triggered by the vaccine.
As adults, I'll assume we have all had nasty colds or flus in our lives, many lasting multiple days or even weeks. For sure, they are not fun. But, it's not like we've never experienced such symptoms before.
With the vaccine, we have the luxury of planning and scheduling our doses so that if you are one of the people who gets that immune response, you can minimize the disruption to your life.
Even for the people I know who were flattened for a day or two...ZERO of them regretted getting the vaccine. One or two days of feeling like crap is way better than getting a severe case of COVID.
I really think it's just people looking for excuses.
@ReenieHJ are you reading about side effects of the vaccine that are worse than the above or is that what you meant?
My shingles vaccine side effects were far worse than that from the covid vax. However, it turned out I also had Anaplasmosis, so I don't actually know if any of my symptoms were due to the shingles vax. It's likely that the first 48 hours was indeed due to the shingles vax. After that, I felt better for a few days and then got sick again. That was likely the Anaplasmosis. The symptoms are extremely similar.
While I will never know for sure, I'm curious (and apprehensive) about what will happen when I get my second shingles shot, which was supposed to be last month. I need to reschedule that...
And I am going to reschedule it, because as unpleasant as it was after the first shot, that was still far better than a case of shingles, which my sister had.4 -
I wish I could've been a fly on any wall back in 1918 to hear what conversations were like then. I assume people were much more likely to do what was expected of them, for the good of all. People are very different now compared to then.
https://www.history.com/news/1918-spanish-flu-mask-wearing-resistance1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you.......
Healthcare workers should ABSOLUTELY have the right to self determination. 🙂
They aren't just entitled to a job whose criteria they no longer meet, though. Employers have determination too.
With it said that way, I was just bumped over the fence to the side of mandatory vax. BUT I'm lucky in the fact that I had a mild case of Covid in November, then was completely vaxxed by March, with little side affects. What about all the cases we read about who have terrible side affects from the vaccine? I'm not arguing for/against with bringing this question up but rather expressing concerns for people who have valid fears. I'm also not including those who feel their freedoms are being stripped because....well I won't get into my thoughts on that.
BUT that still doesn't give a good resolution of the shortage of nurses(or other medical professionals) who refuse to get vaccinated. As I said, there has GOT to be some middle of the road agreements where everyone can stay as safe as possible.SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Not picking on you, personally, but I'm really tired of this excuse/fear from people.
The absolute WORST of the documented immune responses from the vaccine is 1-2 days of fever, chills, body aches, headaches. Some people I know where completely knocked out and couldn't get out of bed for 24 hours.
I wouldn't call this a "side effect"...that's reserved for effects that the actual components of a medication have on a person. This is your body's immune response triggered by the vaccine.
As adults, I'll assume we have all had nasty colds or flus in our lives, many lasting multiple days or even weeks. For sure, they are not fun. But, it's not like we've never experienced such symptoms before.
With the vaccine, we have the luxury of planning and scheduling our doses so that if you are one of the people who gets that immune response, you can minimize the disruption to your life.
Even for the people I know who were flattened for a day or two...ZERO of them regretted getting the vaccine. One or two days of feeling like crap is way better than getting a severe case of COVID.
I really think it's just people looking for excuses.
@ReenieHJ are you reading about side effects of the vaccine that are worse than the above or is that what you meant?
My shingles vaccine side effects were far worse than that from the covid vax. However, it turned out I also had Anaplasmosis, so I don't actually know if any of my symptoms were due to the shingles vax. It's likely that the first 48 hours was indeed due to the shingles vax. After that, I felt better for a few days and then got sick again. That was likely the Anaplasmosis. The symptoms are extremely similar.
While I will never know for sure, I'm curious (and apprehensive) about what will happen when I get my second shingles shot, which was supposed to be last month. I need to reschedule that...
And I am going to reschedule it, because as unpleasant as it was after the first shot, that was still far better than a case of shingles, which my sister had.
OMG yes! The Shingrix vaccine was multiples of times worse than Covid (Moderna). Felt like a truck ran over my shoulder for over a week. And this is a common side-effect, so common they told me my shoulder would ache afterwards...and it did...and I still took it, because its still better than a case of the shingles.3 -
paperpudding wrote: »Interesting opinion Doc. Well..... hmmm..... I had a spiel about diseases that medical personnel spread and no one discriminates against them ......blah blah..... other vaccines that stop diseases not being required to work.... blah... blah....... You know all these things. Then I was going to go into how it could become a slippery slope.... blah... blah .... blah.... , buts that's a logical fallacy. It comes down to this for me..... We support our patients decisions of self determination...... so, I also support my fellow healthcare workers decisions of self determination. As Nietzsche advised..... Careful how long you stare into the abyss...
Other vaccines for infectious diseases not being required??
Glad that isnt the case where I live - public health staff DO require vaccines ( or serological proof of immunity) for relevant diseases- flu vaccine, hepatitis B, whooping cough, MMRV
Highly likely covid vaccine will be added to that.
Already the case for all workers in Aged Care facilities - mandatory to have at least first dose by Sept 17.
If you want to be free for 'self determination' don't work in health care ( and preferably live on an island by yourself)
I know at my hospital they do require many vaccines including MMR, TDaP, and Hepatitis. We also have to show Varicella titers or vaccination. They are very strict about it and ask for proof yearly.2 -
My office is not yet mandating vaccinations...but they are making life quite difficult for unvaxed employees vs vaxed employees. Unvaxed have to now test weekly and have their negative results sent to HR every Monday before coming into the office. If results aren't received by Monday each week, they are required to use their PTO for time missed. Unvaxed employees are also required to get permission from the CEO for any out of state travel and are required to quarantine for 7 days provided they get a test on the 5th day of their return and it is negative. International travel is also banned for unvaxed employees. Of course, many of these things could be lied about, but the punishment for that is pretty steep, up to and including immediate termination.
If you're vaxed, you pretty well can do what you please save for international travel requires permission and quarantine upon return which I find somewhat odd.8 -
kshama2001 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you.......
Healthcare workers should ABSOLUTELY have the right to self determination. 🙂
They aren't just entitled to a job whose criteria they no longer meet, though. Employers have determination too.
With it said that way, I was just bumped over the fence to the side of mandatory vax. BUT I'm lucky in the fact that I had a mild case of Covid in November, then was completely vaxxed by March, with little side affects. What about all the cases we read about who have terrible side affects from the vaccine? I'm not arguing for/against with bringing this question up but rather expressing concerns for people who have valid fears. I'm also not including those who feel their freedoms are being stripped because....well I won't get into my thoughts on that.
BUT that still doesn't give a good resolution of the shortage of nurses(or other medical professionals) who refuse to get vaccinated. As I said, there has GOT to be some middle of the road agreements where everyone can stay as safe as possible.SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Not picking on you, personally, but I'm really tired of this excuse/fear from people.
The absolute WORST of the documented immune responses from the vaccine is 1-2 days of fever, chills, body aches, headaches. Some people I know where completely knocked out and couldn't get out of bed for 24 hours.
I wouldn't call this a "side effect"...that's reserved for effects that the actual components of a medication have on a person. This is your body's immune response triggered by the vaccine.
As adults, I'll assume we have all had nasty colds or flus in our lives, many lasting multiple days or even weeks. For sure, they are not fun. But, it's not like we've never experienced such symptoms before.
With the vaccine, we have the luxury of planning and scheduling our doses so that if you are one of the people who gets that immune response, you can minimize the disruption to your life.
Even for the people I know who were flattened for a day or two...ZERO of them regretted getting the vaccine. One or two days of feeling like crap is way better than getting a severe case of COVID.
I really think it's just people looking for excuses.
@ReenieHJ are you reading about side effects of the vaccine that are worse than the above or is that what you meant?
My shingles vaccine side effects were far worse than that from the covid vax. However, it turned out I also had Anaplasmosis, so I don't actually know if any of my symptoms were due to the shingles vax. It's likely that the first 48 hours was indeed due to the shingles vax. After that, I felt better for a few days and then got sick again. That was likely the Anaplasmosis. The symptoms are extremely similar.
While I will never know for sure, I'm curious (and apprehensive) about what will happen when I get my second shingles shot, which was supposed to be last month. I need to reschedule that...
And I am going to reschedule it, because as unpleasant as it was after the first shot, that was still far better than a case of shingles, which my sister had.
I'm not good at pulling links or news articles I've read, out of my hat, to share, but aren't there a few stories out there where people have developed heart issues and such, from getting the vaccine? No, I'm not talking about the possible typical normal Covid vax side affects. Those are basically nothing compared to getting possible Covid side affects, which range from zero to death.2 -
I guess I just don’t get what all the fuss is about. According to the CDC, vaccinated individuals can pass on the same viral load as unvaccinated so it seems like the end result is the same where ever there are groups of people, vaccinated or unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated, the risk seems to be the same. Less chance of getting sick but the same chance of passing on to someone who may not be able to be vaccinated due to whatever reason. Seems like the focus should still be on masking and social distancing not excluding/including different parts of society. I also find it interesting (when you dig for it) that natural antibodies seem to be proving to have similar efficacy to the vaccines. I probably would not have bothered to be vaccinated if I knew I had already had it.
A vaxed breakthrough case can pass on the same viral load as unvaxed...but it's not the same because a vaxed individual is much less likely to get the virus in the first place. So it's not the same risk at all...just that if you do happen to get it, you can still pass it on to the unvaxed which is why my office just announced that masks will once again be required regardless of vax status. It is also highly probable that a vaxed breakthrough case would go undetected as many vaxed individuals have no or very few symptoms.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
And the bolded is not the fault of the medical provider (or lawyer, or accountant, auto mechanic or anyone else with a skill one needs).
One needs to be an adult and question what they don't understand or need clarified.
It is their fault when the majority of medical practitioners brush you off when you ask questions and quickly make clear that they are getting impatient and view you as a "problem" patient.
In most circumstances I can walk away from a lawyer (assuming I'm not an indigent defendant), accountant, or auto mechanic (assuming I haven't broken down in the middle of nowhere) and seek one who treats me with respect. Between insurance restrictions and the possibility that I might be seeking medical assistance in an emergency situation, my ability to walk away from a medical practitioner is much more limited.4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I guess I just don’t get what all the fuss is about. According to the CDC, vaccinated individuals can pass on the same viral load as unvaccinated so it seems like the end result is the same where ever there are groups of people, vaccinated or unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated, the risk seems to be the same. Less chance of getting sick but the same chance of passing on to someone who may not be able to be vaccinated due to whatever reason. Seems like the focus should still be on masking and social distancing not excluding/including different parts of society. I also find it interesting (when you dig for it) that natural antibodies seem to be proving to have similar efficacy to the vaccines. I probably would not have bothered to be vaccinated if I knew I had already had it.
A vaxed breakthrough case can pass on the same viral load as unvaxed...but it's not the same because a vaxed individual is much less likely to get the virus in the first place. So it's not the same risk at all...just that if you do happen to get it, you can still pass it on to the unvaxed which is why my office just announced that masks will once again be required regardless of vax status. It is also highly probable that a vaxed breakthrough case would go undetected as many vaxed individuals have no or very few symptoms.
Also, vaccinated people clear the infection days fastest. Your immune system is the sheriff, coronavirus is a bank robber, and the vaccine is a wanted poster. 🙂3 -
In the US, people who get fired for refusing to comply with their job's vaccination policy will not be eligible for unemployment payments, just like people voted for refusing to comply with other policies.3
-
kshama2001 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you.......
Healthcare workers should ABSOLUTELY have the right to self determination. 🙂
They aren't just entitled to a job whose criteria they no longer meet, though. Employers have determination too.
With it said that way, I was just bumped over the fence to the side of mandatory vax. BUT I'm lucky in the fact that I had a mild case of Covid in November, then was completely vaxxed by March, with little side affects. What about all the cases we read about who have terrible side affects from the vaccine? I'm not arguing for/against with bringing this question up but rather expressing concerns for people who have valid fears. I'm also not including those who feel their freedoms are being stripped because....well I won't get into my thoughts on that.
BUT that still doesn't give a good resolution of the shortage of nurses(or other medical professionals) who refuse to get vaccinated. As I said, there has GOT to be some middle of the road agreements where everyone can stay as safe as possible.SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Not picking on you, personally, but I'm really tired of this excuse/fear from people.
The absolute WORST of the documented immune responses from the vaccine is 1-2 days of fever, chills, body aches, headaches. Some people I know where completely knocked out and couldn't get out of bed for 24 hours.
I wouldn't call this a "side effect"...that's reserved for effects that the actual components of a medication have on a person. This is your body's immune response triggered by the vaccine.
As adults, I'll assume we have all had nasty colds or flus in our lives, many lasting multiple days or even weeks. For sure, they are not fun. But, it's not like we've never experienced such symptoms before.
With the vaccine, we have the luxury of planning and scheduling our doses so that if you are one of the people who gets that immune response, you can minimize the disruption to your life.
Even for the people I know who were flattened for a day or two...ZERO of them regretted getting the vaccine. One or two days of feeling like crap is way better than getting a severe case of COVID.
I really think it's just people looking for excuses.
@ReenieHJ are you reading about side effects of the vaccine that are worse than the above or is that what you meant?
My shingles vaccine side effects were far worse than that from the covid vax. However, it turned out I also had Anaplasmosis, so I don't actually know if any of my symptoms were due to the shingles vax. It's likely that the first 48 hours was indeed due to the shingles vax. After that, I felt better for a few days and then got sick again. That was likely the Anaplasmosis. The symptoms are extremely similar.
While I will never know for sure, I'm curious (and apprehensive) about what will happen when I get my second shingles shot, which was supposed to be last month. I need to reschedule that...
And I am going to reschedule it, because as unpleasant as it was after the first shot, that was still far better than a case of shingles, which my sister had.
I'm not good at pulling links or news articles I've read, out of my hat, to share, but aren't there a few stories out there where people have developed heart issues and such, from getting the vaccine? No, I'm not talking about the possible typical normal Covid vax side affects. Those are basically nothing compared to getting possible Covid side affects, which range from zero to death.
There were people who got blood clots from the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. It was rare, fewer than one in a million. Long covid is a more common side effect, so I would take my chances with the jab personally. But I was given Pfizer instead.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you.......
Healthcare workers should ABSOLUTELY have the right to self determination. 🙂
They aren't just entitled to a job whose criteria they no longer meet, though. Employers have determination too.
With it said that way, I was just bumped over the fence to the side of mandatory vax. BUT I'm lucky in the fact that I had a mild case of Covid in November, then was completely vaxxed by March, with little side affects. What about all the cases we read about who have terrible side affects from the vaccine? I'm not arguing for/against with bringing this question up but rather expressing concerns for people who have valid fears. I'm also not including those who feel their freedoms are being stripped because....well I won't get into my thoughts on that.
BUT that still doesn't give a good resolution of the shortage of nurses(or other medical professionals) who refuse to get vaccinated. As I said, there has GOT to be some middle of the road agreements where everyone can stay as safe as possible.SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Not picking on you, personally, but I'm really tired of this excuse/fear from people.
The absolute WORST of the documented immune responses from the vaccine is 1-2 days of fever, chills, body aches, headaches. Some people I know where completely knocked out and couldn't get out of bed for 24 hours.
I wouldn't call this a "side effect"...that's reserved for effects that the actual components of a medication have on a person. This is your body's immune response triggered by the vaccine.
As adults, I'll assume we have all had nasty colds or flus in our lives, many lasting multiple days or even weeks. For sure, they are not fun. But, it's not like we've never experienced such symptoms before.
With the vaccine, we have the luxury of planning and scheduling our doses so that if you are one of the people who gets that immune response, you can minimize the disruption to your life.
Even for the people I know who were flattened for a day or two...ZERO of them regretted getting the vaccine. One or two days of feeling like crap is way better than getting a severe case of COVID.
I really think it's just people looking for excuses.
@ReenieHJ are you reading about side effects of the vaccine that are worse than the above or is that what you meant?
My shingles vaccine side effects were far worse than that from the covid vax. However, it turned out I also had Anaplasmosis, so I don't actually know if any of my symptoms were due to the shingles vax. It's likely that the first 48 hours was indeed due to the shingles vax. After that, I felt better for a few days and then got sick again. That was likely the Anaplasmosis. The symptoms are extremely similar.
While I will never know for sure, I'm curious (and apprehensive) about what will happen when I get my second shingles shot, which was supposed to be last month. I need to reschedule that...
And I am going to reschedule it, because as unpleasant as it was after the first shot, that was still far better than a case of shingles, which my sister had.
I'm not good at pulling links or news articles I've read, out of my hat, to share, but aren't there a few stories out there where people have developed heart issues and such, from getting the vaccine? No, I'm not talking about the possible typical normal Covid vax side affects. Those are basically nothing compared to getting possible Covid side affects, which range from zero to death.
Around 1,000 cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported out of 356M doses given of the vaccine. So it can happen, but it's exceedingly rare. Also, the vast majority of these cases were mild with full recovery in a matter of days.
Unfortunately, the media tends to run with these kinds of things and blow them out of proportion.7 -
I just got an email today saying that I need to be vaccinated by September 30 to keep my job. Joke's on you, I've been fully vaccinated since I became eligible. 🙂 👍
I work 100% from home. Getting sick would still cost the company lost productivity ion a way that would be avoidable an NBA irresponsible.
Edit to add: for me it was never about a job, free Krispy Kreme, or anything like that. Getting the vaccine meant being able to hug my 71 year old mom again.14 -
NorthCascades wrote: »In the US, people who get fired for refusing to comply with their job's vaccination policy will not be eligible for unemployment payments, just like people voted for refusing to comply with other policies.
Well there is still a bit of a gray area here in WA, but I sure wouldn't take the chance of getting fired over being not vaxxed and then have unemployment benefits denied. I mean, you can't even get anyone on the phone these days from government and I'm betting that as soon as these vaccines receive official verification/authorization that there will be laws requiring vaccination for at least some industries, plus that would seal the justification(s) by some employers.
It's kind of up in the air still...but How About Those Backlogs, Justice System? It's not worth the uncertainty. Keep your jobs!
https://komonews.com/news/local/unemployment-benefits-may-be-denied-to-workers-fired-for-not-being-vaccinated0 -
Wait, they were giving free Krispy Kremes for the jab?? Man, I was so gipped by getting it done back in Feb, before they started bribing people like children.
Thanks to those that did mention the Myocarditis, etc. With everything 'out there' to read these days, I knew I'd read something.
But my brain trying to keep everything straight is very overworked and stressed.
I just read on a community board they want people to rally around the nurses at our local hospital, giving them the choice of whether or not to vax. Someone wrote in saying they'll rally around people getting the vaccine and staying out of the hospital. I also passed a protest downtown over the weekend about vax choice. 
We're a very small community, of maybe 6K.3 -
Wait, they were giving free Krispy Kremes for the jab?? Man, I was so gipped by getting it done back in Feb, before they started bribing people like children.
Thanks to those that did mention the Myocarditis, etc. With everything 'out there' to read these days, I knew I'd read something. But my brain trying to keep everything straight is very overworked and stressed.
I just read on a community board they want people to rally around the nurses at our local hospital, giving them the choice of whether or not to vax. Someone wrote in saying they'll rally around people getting the vaccine and staying out of the hospital. I also passed a protest downtown over the weekend about vax choice.
We're a very small community, of maybe 6K.
I don't think it's too late, if you can find a participating location. Offer's still on their web site, says it's valid through 12/31/21:
https://www.krispykreme.com/promos/vaccineoffer
😉2 -
We have a labor shortage crisis in the nursing profession, to the point where certain emergency rooms are closing at night. But the government is talking about making the vaccine mandatory for health care workers. What will be the result? More people dying due to a lack of staff and hospital closing. It's the only logical conclusion.
I don't know about the working conditions of nurses in the US, but here it's overtime every week and a sub-par pay. I imagine it's a different story in the US, it's a private system so they are probably better paid with a better schedule.1 -
We have a labor shortage crisis in the nursing profession, to the point where certain emergency rooms are closing at night. But the government is talking about making the vaccine mandatory for health care workers. What will be the result? More people dying due to a lack of staff and hospital closing. It's the only logical conclusion.
I don't know about the working conditions of nurses in the US, but here it's overtime every week and a sub-par pay. I imagine it's a different story in the US, it's a private system so they are probably better paid with a better schedule.
No, the other logical conclusion is that less people will be protected from covid if staff are not all vaccinated.
More people dying due to covid
And spread of covid won't help staffing issues at all.6
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions