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New York becomes first U.S. city to order COVID vaccines for restaurants, gyms
Replies
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I guess I just don’t get what all the fuss is about. According to the CDC, vaccinated individuals can pass on the same viral load as unvaccinated so it seems like the end result is the same where ever there are groups of people, vaccinated or unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated, the risk seems to be the same. Less chance of getting sick but the same chance of passing on to someone who may not be able to be vaccinated due to whatever reason. Seems like the focus should still be on masking and social distancing not excluding/including different parts of society. I also find it interesting (when you dig for it) that natural antibodies seem to be proving to have similar efficacy to the vaccines. I probably would not have bothered to be vaccinated if I knew I had already had it.
Infected people seem to transmit equally whether they're vaccinated or not. But vaccinated people are less likely to become infected.9 -
paperpudding wrote: »richardgavel wrote: »I basically feel the same way. I got vaxxed sooner after I was eligible and I think I a private business wants to establish rules for entering their business, no problem. But I don't agree with government imposition of those rules.
I disagree.
I think it is better when governments make something important mandatory for all relevant businesses.
Examples in Australia - flu vaccine mandatory for all workers and visitors to Aged Care facilities.
Each organisation doesnt make its own rule - it is a legal requirement, not an organisational discretion thing, and applies nationally to all to them.
Works both ways.1 -
But its so easy to fake a vaccine card.4
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There was a demonstration in the last few days in our state capital, bunch of people with signs like "My Body, My Rules". Based on what the speakers at the rally said, they oppose mask mandates and vaccine mandates, either by government or employers.
I can support "My Body, My Rules", but I don't understand why that doesn't imply legitimacy for things like "My Business, My Rules", etc., if this is all about freedom.
IMU, it's long been the case here that employers can require nearly any silly, arbitrary thing they wish of employees, as long as doing so is not blocked by some legal protection. There are dress codes, codes of conduct that apply to behavior outside of work, drug testing, prohibitions on alcohol consumption during work, smoking prohibitions at the work site, and more. Violating those kinds of rules can get a person fired.
(I'm not saying I think vaccines are silly or arbitrary, BTW. I'm saying employers can enforce quite a variety of limitations on personal freedom. The individual's option is to work elsewhere . . . though of course trying to get authorities to block requirements via legal protections is of course within the right of free speech.)4 -
I guess I just don’t get what all the fuss is about. According to the CDC, vaccinated individuals can pass on the same viral load as unvaccinated so it seems like the end result is the same where ever there are groups of people, vaccinated or unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated, the risk seems to be the same. Less chance of getting sick but the same chance of passing on to someone who may not be able to be vaccinated due to whatever reason. Seems like the focus should still be on masking and social distancing not excluding/including different parts of society. I also find it interesting (when you dig for it) that natural antibodies seem to be proving to have similar efficacy to the vaccines. I probably would not have bothered to be vaccinated if I knew I had already had it.
I had it and got the Pfizer shots. Hopefully good for a whilr.2 -
Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »But its so easy to fake a vaccine card.
I had a fake ID when I was a minor. Doesn't mean ID should not be required.10 -
yes, if fake vaccine cards are a big issue (are they??) then make vaccine cards which are harder to fake.
I dont hear anyone saying don't have drivers licences because they could be faked - but of course we don't make them easy to fake either.5 -
paperpudding wrote: »yes, if fake vaccine cards are a big issue (are they??) then make vaccine cards which are harder to fake.
I dont hear anyone saying don't have drivers licences because they could be faked - but of course we don't make them easy to fake either.
Yes. It seems fake vaccine cards are becoming a big problem. Which is why my family is going to keep on social distancing and wearing masks for the foreseeable future.
I agree the vaccine cards should be difficult to fake, but there are a lot of logistical issues in the way. Which will have to be solved.
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/fake-covid-vaccination-cards-are-on-the-rise-in-the-u-s-europe-116283412031 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »The Venn diagram for people who don’t understand science, people who are anti vaxers, and people who are anti maskers is essentially a circle.
I agree with that. But also admit, when vaccinations were first being distributed, between fear and ignorance, I was hesitant to get it. Luckily I had no choice because I was helping my sister with her dh at the time.
Fear because I had no clue how it would affect me physically and I'm the biggest wimp at heart.
And ignorance because I didn't know if the efficacy of it would be worth the risk.
Months later, I'm so glad I had the vaccine and will not hesitate to get all recommended boosters, etc.
I think too many people are letting their fears take hold. And *that*, I understand.
And then you've got the ones who are claiming their freedoms and rights are being taken away.
And *that* I do not understand because ultimately everybody's freedom and rights will be taken away.
But then again, I don't have a problem with being told what I can/cannot do. Our parents do it. Our employers do it. Our schools do it. Our government does it. Do I still feel free?? You bet your butt I do. I'm free to take a walk and not have my town shot to hell through mortar attacks. I'm free to go to our lovely local library and pick books I like. I'm free to practice any religion I choose, if I chose to. I'm free to go to my grocery store and pick up whatever I choose to for dinner. I was free to get an education and still am if I chose to. I'm free to simply visit my friends and neighbors, whether masked/vaxxed or not but feel I don't want to strip their freedom of being healthy by being thoughtless.
JMO.
Yep. 100%.
I don’t lump the reluctant with the absolute science deniers.
Especially since my anti-vaxer attitude hardened way back with the disgraced Dr Wakefield.3 -
California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term5 -
California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.5 -
California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
I've actually seen a few nurses (CNA etc) reluctant to get the vaccine because they had enough knowledge to realize just how unprecidented it was to get a vaccine as quickly as we did. Sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous. Your first pathology class is scary!
I'm just curious if you experienced the same.3 -
I doubt that the vaccine will ever be mandated here for the general population, but maybe for certain professions like health care. Our doofus Premier has said that he won't implement a vaccine passport, but he is a idiot and if there is enough pressure he will have to I guess. I like the idea. We are planning a private event (wedding) for September and are only inviting fully vaccinated guests to attend - which means cutting out some close family who probably won't be happy about it. Oh well, learned some surprising things about people's (lack of) intelligence these last few months.8
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Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »But its so easy to fake a vaccine card.
Two people flew into Toronto with a fake vaccine cards and got fined $16,000.00 each.14 -
California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.12 -
California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
I've actually seen a few nurses (CNA etc) reluctant to get the vaccine because they had enough knowledge to realize just how unprecidented it was to get a vaccine as quickly as we did. Sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous. Your first pathology class is scary!
I'm just curious if you experienced the same.
But they are not looking at the science or data
because if they did, they would have been vaccinated already.8 -
KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.12 -
California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
I've actually seen a few nurses (CNA etc) reluctant to get the vaccine because they had enough knowledge to realize just how unprecidented it was to get a vaccine as quickly as we did. Sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous. Your first pathology class is scary!
I'm just curious if you experienced the same.
But they are not looking at the science or data
because if they did, they would have been vaccinated already.
A lot of people drop science, but they don't know the math, because their minds are narrower than the righteous path.6 -
Here is WA, the governor just announced that all healthcare and state employees need to be vaccinated by Oct 18. I support that in theory. I was glad to be a healthcare worker and got vaccinated as soon as I could. But the backlash here is huge. There were about 300 people demonstrating in front of the local hospital here. 68% of the adults in the state are vaccinated. But when you think that 80+% of the elderly are vaccinated, that means a large percent of the workforce is not. I don't think the mandate is going to hold. Offices and hospitals can't just fire that many people all at once. So I am guessing that either the mandate will be dropped, or there will be some compromise with non-vaccinated being able to mask and test instead.4
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Here is WA, the governor just announced that all healthcare and state employees need to be vaccinated by Oct 18. I support that in theory. I was glad to be a healthcare worker and got vaccinated as soon as I could. But the backlash here is huge. There were about 300 people demonstrating in front of the local hospital here. 68% of the adults in the state are vaccinated. But when you think that 80+% of the elderly are vaccinated, that means a large percent of the workforce is not. I don't think the mandate is going to hold. Offices and hospitals can't just fire that many people all at once. So I am guessing that either the mandate will be dropped, or there will be some compromise with non-vaccinated being able to mask and test instead.
I’m in Western Washington and I’m not aware of any protests. I do live under a rock, so perhaps I just haven’t heard about them. But I suspect that level of resistance to vaccines is east of the mountains. And since the majority population is on the western side of the state? I would not expect the mandate to be lifted any time soon.
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A lot of Seattle police are unvaccinated and not willing to comply with the mandate. Jenny Durkin (mayor of Seattle) has said, in other contexts, that she isn't willing to lose more police head count. The smart money says SPD will either be exempt or be able to show negative covid tests in lieu of vaccination. The policy wasn't negotiable, so the Police Union didn't get to negotiate and has raised an issue, that will probably be used as cover if the policy changes.2
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<==== sets down his copy of "1984" for a second.......
<==== *sighs*
<==== goes back to reading.......8 -
California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
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psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
Nursing is hard. My mom is an RN and recently retired. The main thing she would complain about were the working conditions. Patients can assault you and you have no recourse. Patient’s family members can curse you out for no reason and you’re not allowed to ask them to leave the room. Management tends to suck and if there is an issue, rarely is anything done to resolve it. I am a PA and work with a lot of nurses. I have so much respect for them. Things need to change so that we can recruit and maintain more nurses. However, it is disgraceful to be a healthcare worker and refuse to be vaccinated because you’re risking infecting your patients. The ones that refuse should be fired.11 -
psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
Nursing is hard. My mom is an RN and recently retired. The main thing she would complain about were the working conditions. Patients can assault you and you have no recourse. Patient’s family members can curse you out for no reason and you’re not allowed to ask them to leave the room. Management tends to suck and if there is an issue, rarely is anything done to resolve it. I am a PA and work with a lot of nurses. I have so much respect for them. Things need to change so that we can recruit and maintain more nurses. However, it is disgraceful to be a healthcare worker and refuse to be vaccinated because you’re risking infecting your patients. The ones that refuse should be fired.
Nurses will never improve their situation as long as they stand divided. We have a saying Doc... Can I call you Doc? That's what we refer to our providers as... anyways.... Nurses eat their own. Until that is not true, nothing is going to happen.
However, it is disgraceful to be a healthcare worker and refuse to be vaccinated because you’re risking infecting your patients. The ones that refuse should be fired.
Interesting opinion Doc. Well..... hmmm..... I had a spiel about diseases that medical personnel spread and no one discriminates against them ......blah blah..... other vaccines that stop diseases not being required to work.... blah... blah....... You know all these things. Then I was going to go into how it could become a slippery slope.... blah... blah .... blah.... , buts that's a logical fallacy. It comes down to this for me..... We support our patients decisions of self determination...... so, I also support my fellow healthcare workers decisions of self determination. As Nietzsche advised..... Careful how long you stare into the abyss...5 -
psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.12 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you.......
4 -
psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you.......
Hi there. Waving a white flag of peace.
For medical personnel refusing to vaccinate, will there be other criteria in place to guarantee protection to the patient? Or I should say as much of a guarantee as there can be. Because we all know nothing in this whole tragic pandemic is coming with any guarantees but rather better odds. Much more frequent testing? Double masking? That sort of thing? There has got to be a good healthy compromise for everybody. Nobody wants to lose good nurses; they are the heart that cares for patients, along with the assistants and aides out there. God knows there aren't enough to go around already and to have huge numbers walk away because they're being forced to vaccinate......there's got to be a way to keep them and to protect the patients.3 -
I think that people should have the right to choose if they want the vaccine or not, meaning it should not be illegal to not get vaccinated, but I also support the right of any business or government agency to require it, to work on site and or enter the premises. If you make a choice you live with the consequences good and bad. I made the choice to get vaccinated and my children all over 12 are also vaccinated, I evaluated the risks associated with the vaccine against the risks of not, and made my choice. As a result we have more options for businesses we can enter which Yay!! However if one of us had had an adverse reaction i would not have blamed fhe science I knew the risk and I made a choice. I understand that low risk does not mean no risk.
Now for people who choose not to vaccinate, they have to accept the outcome of their choices m, meaning restrictions in access to certain businesses and their ability to be employed in certain fields such as healthcare.
My final thoughts here are that since there are instances in which it’s not a choice, children under 12, and certain health conditions, I think businesses should offer alternatives to service those folks. Telehealth for healthcare, online school, and curbside to go are all examples of ways of still offering the service to someone unvaccinated.
Make you choice m, I respect your choice, but you need to also respect and accept the outcomes of your choice.18 -
psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
Actually, its going to hurt in the lloonnnggg term. Many nurses have just and left the profession, taken jobs in telehealth, or case management. What many of the companies are failing to recognize is, schools are not making enough of us to replace those lost. In my line of nursing, there are few that hear the calling. It takes a breed of tough, independent, and most of all detached nurses, to survive. Tough, because you deal with chronic manipulation and the threat of violence everyday. Independent, because there will be many times you have no access to a provider, and have to make decisions quickly. Detached, well.... try giving care to someone who you know raped and killed a child. One's emotions can play hell, but we took an oath, "first, do no harm." I lovely call the ladies I work with, "barbwire broads". They are some of the best nurses I have had the privilidge to work with. All that said, my company is about to lose 50% of staff, when we are already understaffed, because they are trying to mandate vaccinations. How are we going to replace that? Answer: you can't.KosmosKitten wrote: »California just ordered a mandate for health care workers. I’m surprised this wasn’t done sooner. All of the PAs and doctors I know are vaccinated and about 70% of our nurses but for some reason there are still some resistant workers and they know better.
I’m glad it is mandated now because even with masking and PPE, you can transmit Covid to others. The last thing a patient who comes in for chest pain or other unrelated complaint needs is to also catch Covid while in the hospital because his irresponsible caregiver refused the vaccine.
Yuuup, and I'm expecting a lot of co-workers to quit over that. I'm for it, but ouch is it going to suck for us in the short term
Same. We have about 50 unvaccinated nurses who are threatening to quit.
I find the notion of un-vaccinated nurses to be weird considering the profession they've chosen. I suppose I can understand medical exemptions and religious ones, but something tells me all 50 of the nurses you're mentioning don't fall into either of those categories.
Also, it's been eye-opening and somewhat disturbing (for me anyway) to learn just how conspiratorial and anti-science some health care professionals are.. and Covid brought it all out of the woodwork, so to speak.
I am really hoping I'm just somehow encountering a lot of the more vocal minority in this regard.
A lot of them are making a political statement. They refuse the vaccine because they don’t want to be controlled. They also are very vocal supporters of the former president.
Just say his name. He is not "Beetlejuice". Saying it 3 times won't get him back into office.... Trump... Trump... Trump..... wait...............Biden is still president. For the record I am vaccinated and I have had the virus. I got it in December when my company offered it and had the virus in November. While some of the nurses who are getting ready to walk are "conservative", many are liberal, and of child rearing age. They have their concerns. I personally back them. I also back those who want the vaccine.
You don't think that patients have a right to expect that their health care providers aren't unnecessarily exposing them to a disease that can cause long term disability, extended time on a vent, or even death? Consider some patients are especially vulnerable -- they may be in no condition to question their caregivers (e.g., if they're unconscious, suffering from dementia or other conditions that preclude their understanding their risks) about whether they are vaccinated, or they may have no option in an emergency situation to refuse treatment from an unvaxed provider even if they are in a condition to ask. On top of which, most of us are socialized not to question medical providers but just do what we're told.
<===clears voice ughh...uh....
<===speaks very slowly I..... support......my....fellow.....healthcare.....workers......decisions.....of....self......determination,.....to.... vaccinate..... or.....not.....
That's it. I'm not going to argue with you....... Hi there. Waving a white flag of peace.
For medical personnel refusing to vaccinate, will there be other criteria in place to guarantee protection to the patient? Or I should say as much of a guarantee as there can be. Because we all know nothing in this whole tragic pandemic is coming with any guarantees but rather better odds. Much more frequent testing? Double masking? That sort of thing? There has got to be a good healthy compromise for everybody. Nobody wants to lose good nurses; they are the heart that cares for patients, along with the assistants and aides out there. God knows there aren't enough to go around already and to have huge numbers walk away because they're being forced to vaccinate......there's got to be a way to keep them and to protect the patients.
I appreciate the offer of the "white flag" ma'am, but it is not needed.... I am unwavering in my support of my fellow workers.I think that people should have the right to choose if they want the vaccine or not, meaning it should not be illegal to not get vaccinated, but I also support the right of any business or government agency to require it, to work on site and or enter the premises. If you make a choice you live with the consequences good and bad. I made the choice to get vaccinated and my children all over 12 are also vaccinated, I evaluated the risks associated with the vaccine against the risks of not, and made my choice. As a result we have more options for businesses we can enter which Yay!! However if one of us had had an adverse reaction i would not have blamed fhe science I knew the risk and I made a choice. I understand that low risk does not mean no risk.
Now for people who choose not to vaccinate, they have to accept the outcome of their choices m, meaning restrictions in access to certain businesses and their ability to be employed in certain fields such as healthcare.
My final thoughts here are that since there are instances in which it’s not a choice, children under 12, and certain health conditions, I think businesses should offer alternatives to service those folks. Telehealth for healthcare, online school, and curbside to go are all examples of ways of still offering the service to someone unvaccinated.
Make you choice m, I respect your choice, but you need to also respect and accept the outcomes of your choice.
I agree with private businesses right to choose.....but..... in a market that is already depleted of workers, forcing someone to choose, might not be wise. Many of us work in niche parts of nursing. We become highly skilled at what we do. Thus, not making it easy to replace quickly. New graduate nurses need time to mature, at least a year on the floor. I receive weekly, unsolicited, text messages to go on contracts around the country. I mean, its not the 8-10k a week ICU nurses were getting, closer to 3-4k a week, but still, nearly exotic dancer money. I am staying where I am at, because I made a promise to someone, but when that is done, I'm out.3
This discussion has been closed.
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