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What a lot of us here already know: "Fast" carbs don't make you fat!
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neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »"Most blue zones eat lots of carbs. Those people are healthy."
I agree. Most blue zones. Not all.
The OP is talking about "fast carbs". The code word for ADDED SUGAR. Always bad.
I happen to live in a BLUE ZONE where people live long healthy lives on healthy ANIMAL based foods. As do I.
No one here has suggested that eating some animal-based foods is unhealthy.
However, from prior discussions, I believe you are referring to Costa Rica. Here's a graph showing the break down of the traditional diet, and it does not appear to be "based on" animal-based foods, although like most diets it includes them, of course: https://www.bluezones.com/exploration/nicoya-costa-rica/
5% meat, fish, poultry (and often this means more fish than not)
24% dairy [dairy has carbs, of course]
2% eggs
14% vegetables
7% legumes
26% whole grains
9% fruits
11% added sugar
2% added fatskshama2001 wrote: »Costa Rican Blue Zone in chart form:
I was in a different part of Costa Rica for 6 weeks, ate rice and beans twice per day, tropical fruit all day long, eggs, chicken, and fish just occasionally, zero dairy, and dropped a size without even trying.
I have been to Costa Rica many times and ate plant based easily there, lots of rice and fruit, and also lost weight.
Obesity has quadrupled in Costa Rica in the last 40 years and childhood obesity is looking worse, not good.
Most likely because their diet is becoming more similar to that in the US in many ways, not the fact that the traditional diet contains lots of carbs.
Are you saying that whole foods are less likely to cause obesity than refined, or is it that people like the taste better and they're eating more? BTW I agree with your assessment.
I think people tend to naturally eat less, on average, when eating/cooking with whole foods. Probably a combination of the foods being on average more satiating (there's a study that backed that up that has been discussed here), it requiring more work to actually access them (if you have to cook what you eat other than, say, raw fruit and veg, it's harder to snack a bunch at unplanned times or just for pleasure, not hunger), and for many people certain types of what are often called "ultra palatable foods" may override hunger/satiety cues even if they don't actually taste better to many of us.
At one level, this is silly (what I'm about to type), and slightly digressive, but I suspect there's maybe a tiny bit of something in it.
In a cognitive space where people chase at best tiny caloric advantages via things like ice water, hot peppers, ACV, TEF, maybe even modest ones like EPOC differences between exercise modes, I think the actual act of cooking is underappreciated.
IIRC, it takes something like 200 excess calories per person per day (on average across the population) to explain the "obesity crisis", which is a slow upward creep in average weight over many years.
Cooking dinner takes maybe 20 minutes to half an hour? (Can be less, but that 20-30 isn't extreme, I think.) The Compendium of Physical Activities** says "cooking or food preparation, moderate effort" is a 3.5 MET activity (based on published research). Other things that are 3.5 METS, or close: Light calisthenics, slow ballroom dancing, some types of yoga, etc. Waiting in the car at a drive through is maybe 1.3-1.8 METS (sitting in car, with or without fidgeting), actively driving more like 2.5.
For a mid-small older person like me, net of BMR, cooking one meal would be around 25-50 calories burned, in 20-30 minutes. Tiny, but 10-25% chunk of that theoretical 200 calories.
Yeah, this is a digression from fast carbs, but we were heading down that road of "why do people seem to gain more weight eating modern-style refined/processed foods vs. whole foods". The effort differential is maybe in there even beyond its effect on motivations. Also, there are tiny hints that TEF of whole foods may be a little higher, and I don't think that's calculated into calorie label values.
Little stuff adds up. 😉
**https://sites.google.com/site/compendiumofphysicalactivities/
Yes, I have too much time on my hands right now.7 -
That's really interesting, @AnnPT77 ! I am on my feet in the kitchen a lot, and I figured it used some energy but hadn't really bothered to think about just how much. Chopping veggies, stirring, moving pots and pans (plus dishes afterwards), grabbing things out of cupboards and putting them back. None of it is a lot of effort by itself but it does add up!
(I already knew kneading bread by hand was a major workout.
) 4 -
penguinmama87 wrote: »That's really interesting, @AnnPT77 ! I am on my feet in the kitchen a lot, and I figured it used some energy but hadn't really bothered to think about just how much. Chopping veggies, stirring, moving pots and pans (plus dishes afterwards), grabbing things out of cupboards and putting them back. None of it is a lot of effort by itself but it does add up!
(I already knew kneading bread by hand was a major workout. )
"Cooking, kneading dough" = 3.41 METS (Torun, McGuire et al. 1982)
Guatemalan women, though.
😉
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Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.4
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Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
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Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?2 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »"Most blue zones eat lots of carbs. Those people are healthy."
I agree. Most blue zones. Not all.
The OP is talking about "fast carbs". The code word for ADDED SUGAR. Always bad.
I happen to live in a BLUE ZONE where people live long healthy lives on healthy ANIMAL based foods. As do I.
No one here has suggested that eating some animal-based foods is unhealthy.
However, from prior discussions, I believe you are referring to Costa Rica. Here's a graph showing the break down of the traditional diet, and it does not appear to be "based on" animal-based foods, although like most diets it includes them, of course: https://www.bluezones.com/exploration/nicoya-costa-rica/
5% meat, fish, poultry (and often this means more fish than not)
24% dairy [dairy has carbs, of course]
2% eggs
14% vegetables
7% legumes
26% whole grains
9% fruits
11% added sugar
2% added fatskshama2001 wrote: »Costa Rican Blue Zone in chart form:
I was in a different part of Costa Rica for 6 weeks, ate rice and beans twice per day, tropical fruit all day long, eggs, chicken, and fish just occasionally, zero dairy, and dropped a size without even trying.
I have been to Costa Rica many times and ate plant based easily there, lots of rice and fruit, and also lost weight.
Obesity has quadrupled in Costa Rica in the last 40 years and childhood obesity is looking worse, not good.
Most likely because their diet is becoming more similar to that in the US in many ways, not the fact that the traditional diet contains lots of carbs.
Are you saying that whole foods are less likely to cause obesity than refined, or is it that people like the taste better and they're eating more? BTW I agree with your assessment.
I think people tend to naturally eat less, on average, when eating/cooking with whole foods. Probably a combination of the foods being on average more satiating (there's a study that backed that up that has been discussed here), it requiring more work to actually access them (if you have to cook what you eat other than, say, raw fruit and veg, it's harder to snack a bunch at unplanned times or just for pleasure, not hunger), and for many people certain types of what are often called "ultra palatable foods" may override hunger/satiety cues even if they don't actually taste better to many of us.
Without stereotyping you may be right.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »
Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?
Into your daily pool where you can spend them for a lot longer than half an hour, because food still in your gut does not magically poof into fat at the thirty minute mark.11 -
neanderthin wrote: »"Most blue zones eat lots of carbs. Those people are healthy."
I agree. Most blue zones. Not all.
The OP is talking about "fast carbs". The code word for ADDED SUGAR. Always bad.
I happen to live in a BLUE ZONE where people live long healthy lives on healthy ANIMAL based foods. As do I.
No one here has suggested that eating some animal-based foods is unhealthy.
However, from prior discussions, I believe you are referring to Costa Rica. Here's a graph showing the break down of the traditional diet, and it does not appear to be "based on" animal-based foods, although like most diets it includes them, of course: https://www.bluezones.com/exploration/nicoya-costa-rica/
5% meat, fish, poultry (and often this means more fish than not)
24% dairy [dairy has carbs, of course]
2% eggs
14% vegetables
7% legumes
26% whole grains
9% fruits
11% added sugar
2% added fatskshama2001 wrote: »Costa Rican Blue Zone in chart form:
I was in a different part of Costa Rica for 6 weeks, ate rice and beans twice per day, tropical fruit all day long, eggs, chicken, and fish just occasionally, zero dairy, and dropped a size without even trying.
I have been to Costa Rica many times and ate plant based easily there, lots of rice and fruit, and also lost weight.
Obesity has quadrupled in Costa Rica in the last 40 years and childhood obesity is looking worse, not good.
Then it is likely due to eating more junk food and less of their traditional diet.
BTW, I find compliance with WFPB diet way easier than with low carb. Any diet that limits fruits, legumes, and grains does not make me feel good. When I was younger I tried Atkins and South Beach and felt gross on them.neanderthin wrote: »"Most blue zones eat lots of carbs. Those people are healthy."
I agree. Most blue zones. Not all.
The OP is talking about "fast carbs". The code word for ADDED SUGAR. Always bad.
I happen to live in a BLUE ZONE where people live long healthy lives on healthy ANIMAL based foods. As do I.
No one here has suggested that eating some animal-based foods is unhealthy.
However, from prior discussions, I believe you are referring to Costa Rica. Here's a graph showing the break down of the traditional diet, and it does not appear to be "based on" animal-based foods, although like most diets it includes them, of course: https://www.bluezones.com/exploration/nicoya-costa-rica/
5% meat, fish, poultry (and often this means more fish than not)
24% dairy [dairy has carbs, of course]
2% eggs
14% vegetables
7% legumes
26% whole grains
9% fruits
11% added sugar
2% added fatskshama2001 wrote: »Costa Rican Blue Zone in chart form:
I was in a different part of Costa Rica for 6 weeks, ate rice and beans twice per day, tropical fruit all day long, eggs, chicken, and fish just occasionally, zero dairy, and dropped a size without even trying.
I have been to Costa Rica many times and ate plant based easily there, lots of rice and fruit, and also lost weight.
Obesity has quadrupled in Costa Rica in the last 40 years and childhood obesity is looking worse, not good.
Then it is likely due to eating more junk food and less of their traditional diet.
BTW, I find compliance with WFPB diet way easier than with low carb. Any diet that limits fruits, legumes, and grains does not make me feel good. When I was younger I tried Atkins and South Beach and felt gross on them.
That's your person journey and your also a vegetarian/vegan so your biased. We all are BTW. Personally I'm lower to low carb and have been for quite a few years and I still eat fruit, legumes and grains periodically. I eat a mountain of vegetables and greens regularly with seafood the dominant protein.2 -
wunderkindking wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?
Into your daily pool where you can spend them for a lot longer than half an hour, because food still in your gut does not magically poof into fat at the thirty minute mark.
At the same time, IMU we can potentially be storing fat, or burning stored fat, throughout the day, depending on a variety of factors.
If we have weight management goals, what matters is the fat "bank balance", not the individual transactions. Net calorie deficit, net fat depletion over time, IMO that's what matters, if the goal is loss.
IMO, endurance athletes maybe need to worry about fueling details, perhaps some with serious health conditions. Us regular folks? Nah, not so much.4 -
wunderkindking wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?
Into your daily pool where you can spend them for a lot longer than half an hour, because food still in your gut does not magically poof into fat at the thirty minute mark.
simple carbs hit your blood stream in and around 30 minutes after consumption where digestion starts in your mouth. Anyway, that wasn't the point. AnnPT77 basically explained it.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »"Most blue zones eat lots of carbs. Those people are healthy."
I agree. Most blue zones. Not all.
The OP is talking about "fast carbs". The code word for ADDED SUGAR. Always bad.
I happen to live in a BLUE ZONE where people live long healthy lives on healthy ANIMAL based foods. As do I.
No one here has suggested that eating some animal-based foods is unhealthy.
However, from prior discussions, I believe you are referring to Costa Rica. Here's a graph showing the break down of the traditional diet, and it does not appear to be "based on" animal-based foods, although like most diets it includes them, of course: https://www.bluezones.com/exploration/nicoya-costa-rica/
5% meat, fish, poultry (and often this means more fish than not)
24% dairy [dairy has carbs, of course]
2% eggs
14% vegetables
7% legumes
26% whole grains
9% fruits
11% added sugar
2% added fatskshama2001 wrote: »Costa Rican Blue Zone in chart form:
I was in a different part of Costa Rica for 6 weeks, ate rice and beans twice per day, tropical fruit all day long, eggs, chicken, and fish just occasionally, zero dairy, and dropped a size without even trying.
I have been to Costa Rica many times and ate plant based easily there, lots of rice and fruit, and also lost weight.
Obesity has quadrupled in Costa Rica in the last 40 years and childhood obesity is looking worse, not good.
Then it is likely due to eating more junk food and less of their traditional diet.
BTW, I find compliance with WFPB diet way easier than with low carb. Any diet that limits fruits, legumes, and grains does not make me feel good. When I was younger I tried Atkins and South Beach and felt gross on them.neanderthin wrote: »"Most blue zones eat lots of carbs. Those people are healthy."
I agree. Most blue zones. Not all.
The OP is talking about "fast carbs". The code word for ADDED SUGAR. Always bad.
I happen to live in a BLUE ZONE where people live long healthy lives on healthy ANIMAL based foods. As do I.
No one here has suggested that eating some animal-based foods is unhealthy.
However, from prior discussions, I believe you are referring to Costa Rica. Here's a graph showing the break down of the traditional diet, and it does not appear to be "based on" animal-based foods, although like most diets it includes them, of course: https://www.bluezones.com/exploration/nicoya-costa-rica/
5% meat, fish, poultry (and often this means more fish than not)
24% dairy [dairy has carbs, of course]
2% eggs
14% vegetables
7% legumes
26% whole grains
9% fruits
11% added sugar
2% added fatskshama2001 wrote: »Costa Rican Blue Zone in chart form:
I was in a different part of Costa Rica for 6 weeks, ate rice and beans twice per day, tropical fruit all day long, eggs, chicken, and fish just occasionally, zero dairy, and dropped a size without even trying.
I have been to Costa Rica many times and ate plant based easily there, lots of rice and fruit, and also lost weight.
Obesity has quadrupled in Costa Rica in the last 40 years and childhood obesity is looking worse, not good.
Then it is likely due to eating more junk food and less of their traditional diet.
BTW, I find compliance with WFPB diet way easier than with low carb. Any diet that limits fruits, legumes, and grains does not make me feel good. When I was younger I tried Atkins and South Beach and felt gross on them.
That's your person journey and your also a vegetarian/vegan so your biased. We all are BTW. Personally I'm lower to low carb and have been for quite a few years and I still eat fruit, legumes and grains periodically. I eat a mountain of vegetables and greens regularly with seafood the dominant protein.
I’m not biased as I grew up eating plenty of meat. I am currently pescatarian. I have tried both ways and found this way is better for me.7 -
neanderthin wrote: »wunderkindking wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?
Into your daily pool where you can spend them for a lot longer than half an hour, because food still in your gut does not magically poof into fat at the thirty minute mark.
simple carbs hit your blood stream in and around 30 minutes after consumption where digestion starts in your mouth. Anyway, that wasn't the point. AnnPT77 basically explained it.
I don't think you and Ann are agreeing. You didn't seem to have a problem with"any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat."
And by this, it appears that Ann does:wunderkindking wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?
Into your daily pool where you can spend them for a lot longer than half an hour, because food still in your gut does not magically poof into fat at the thirty minute mark.
At the same time, IMU we can potentially be storing fat, or burning stored fat, throughout the day, depending on a variety of factors.
If we have weight management goals, what matters is the fat "bank balance", not the individual transactions. Net calorie deficit, net fat depletion over time, IMO that's what matters, if the goal is loss.
IMO, endurance athletes maybe need to worry about fueling details, perhaps some with serious health conditions. Us regular folks? Nah, not so much.6 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »"Most blue zones eat lots of carbs. Those people are healthy."
I agree. Most blue zones. Not all.
The OP is talking about "fast carbs". The code word for ADDED SUGAR. Always bad.
I happen to live in a BLUE ZONE where people live long healthy lives on healthy ANIMAL based foods. As do I.
No one here has suggested that eating some animal-based foods is unhealthy.
However, from prior discussions, I believe you are referring to Costa Rica. Here's a graph showing the break down of the traditional diet, and it does not appear to be "based on" animal-based foods, although like most diets it includes them, of course: https://www.bluezones.com/exploration/nicoya-costa-rica/
5% meat, fish, poultry (and often this means more fish than not)
24% dairy [dairy has carbs, of course]
2% eggs
14% vegetables
7% legumes
26% whole grains
9% fruits
11% added sugar
2% added fatskshama2001 wrote: »Costa Rican Blue Zone in chart form:
I was in a different part of Costa Rica for 6 weeks, ate rice and beans twice per day, tropical fruit all day long, eggs, chicken, and fish just occasionally, zero dairy, and dropped a size without even trying.
I have been to Costa Rica many times and ate plant based easily there, lots of rice and fruit, and also lost weight.
Obesity has quadrupled in Costa Rica in the last 40 years and childhood obesity is looking worse, not good.
Then it is likely due to eating more junk food and less of their traditional diet.
BTW, I find compliance with WFPB diet way easier than with low carb. Any diet that limits fruits, legumes, and grains does not make me feel good. When I was younger I tried Atkins and South Beach and felt gross on them.neanderthin wrote: »"Most blue zones eat lots of carbs. Those people are healthy."
I agree. Most blue zones. Not all.
The OP is talking about "fast carbs". The code word for ADDED SUGAR. Always bad.
I happen to live in a BLUE ZONE where people live long healthy lives on healthy ANIMAL based foods. As do I.
No one here has suggested that eating some animal-based foods is unhealthy.
However, from prior discussions, I believe you are referring to Costa Rica. Here's a graph showing the break down of the traditional diet, and it does not appear to be "based on" animal-based foods, although like most diets it includes them, of course: https://www.bluezones.com/exploration/nicoya-costa-rica/
5% meat, fish, poultry (and often this means more fish than not)
24% dairy [dairy has carbs, of course]
2% eggs
14% vegetables
7% legumes
26% whole grains
9% fruits
11% added sugar
2% added fatskshama2001 wrote: »Costa Rican Blue Zone in chart form:
I was in a different part of Costa Rica for 6 weeks, ate rice and beans twice per day, tropical fruit all day long, eggs, chicken, and fish just occasionally, zero dairy, and dropped a size without even trying.
I have been to Costa Rica many times and ate plant based easily there, lots of rice and fruit, and also lost weight.
Obesity has quadrupled in Costa Rica in the last 40 years and childhood obesity is looking worse, not good.
Then it is likely due to eating more junk food and less of their traditional diet.
BTW, I find compliance with WFPB diet way easier than with low carb. Any diet that limits fruits, legumes, and grains does not make me feel good. When I was younger I tried Atkins and South Beach and felt gross on them.
That's your person journey and your also a vegetarian/vegan so your biased. We all are BTW. Personally I'm lower to low carb and have been for quite a few years and I still eat fruit, legumes and grains periodically. I eat a mountain of vegetables and greens regularly with seafood the dominant protein.
I’m not biased as I grew up eating plenty of meat. I am currently pescatarian. I have tried both ways and found this way is better for me.
Sorry my mistake. I guess I assumed you were based on your overall opinion of low carb and meat, cholesterol etc.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »"Most blue zones eat lots of carbs. Those people are healthy."
I agree. Most blue zones. Not all.
The OP is talking about "fast carbs". The code word for ADDED SUGAR. Always bad.
I happen to live in a BLUE ZONE where people live long healthy lives on healthy ANIMAL based foods. As do I.
No one here has suggested that eating some animal-based foods is unhealthy.
However, from prior discussions, I believe you are referring to Costa Rica. Here's a graph showing the break down of the traditional diet, and it does not appear to be "based on" animal-based foods, although like most diets it includes them, of course: https://www.bluezones.com/exploration/nicoya-costa-rica/
5% meat, fish, poultry (and often this means more fish than not)
24% dairy [dairy has carbs, of course]
2% eggs
14% vegetables
7% legumes
26% whole grains
9% fruits
11% added sugar
2% added fatskshama2001 wrote: »Costa Rican Blue Zone in chart form:
I was in a different part of Costa Rica for 6 weeks, ate rice and beans twice per day, tropical fruit all day long, eggs, chicken, and fish just occasionally, zero dairy, and dropped a size without even trying.
I have been to Costa Rica many times and ate plant based easily there, lots of rice and fruit, and also lost weight.
Obesity has quadrupled in Costa Rica in the last 40 years and childhood obesity is looking worse, not good.
Then it is likely due to eating more junk food and less of their traditional diet.
BTW, I find compliance with WFPB diet way easier than with low carb. Any diet that limits fruits, legumes, and grains does not make me feel good. When I was younger I tried Atkins and South Beach and felt gross on them.neanderthin wrote: »"Most blue zones eat lots of carbs. Those people are healthy."
I agree. Most blue zones. Not all.
The OP is talking about "fast carbs". The code word for ADDED SUGAR. Always bad.
I happen to live in a BLUE ZONE where people live long healthy lives on healthy ANIMAL based foods. As do I.
No one here has suggested that eating some animal-based foods is unhealthy.
However, from prior discussions, I believe you are referring to Costa Rica. Here's a graph showing the break down of the traditional diet, and it does not appear to be "based on" animal-based foods, although like most diets it includes them, of course: https://www.bluezones.com/exploration/nicoya-costa-rica/
5% meat, fish, poultry (and often this means more fish than not)
24% dairy [dairy has carbs, of course]
2% eggs
14% vegetables
7% legumes
26% whole grains
9% fruits
11% added sugar
2% added fatskshama2001 wrote: »Costa Rican Blue Zone in chart form:
I was in a different part of Costa Rica for 6 weeks, ate rice and beans twice per day, tropical fruit all day long, eggs, chicken, and fish just occasionally, zero dairy, and dropped a size without even trying.
I have been to Costa Rica many times and ate plant based easily there, lots of rice and fruit, and also lost weight.
Obesity has quadrupled in Costa Rica in the last 40 years and childhood obesity is looking worse, not good.
Then it is likely due to eating more junk food and less of their traditional diet.
BTW, I find compliance with WFPB diet way easier than with low carb. Any diet that limits fruits, legumes, and grains does not make me feel good. When I was younger I tried Atkins and South Beach and felt gross on them.
That's your person journey and your also a vegetarian/vegan so your biased. We all are BTW. Personally I'm lower to low carb and have been for quite a few years and I still eat fruit, legumes and grains periodically. I eat a mountain of vegetables and greens regularly with seafood the dominant protein.
Of course her personal journey is her personal journey. But her point was "Then it is likely due to eating more junk food and less of their traditional diet."
Her personal experiences and preferences don't negate that statement.5 -
kshama2001 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »wunderkindking wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?
Into your daily pool where you can spend them for a lot longer than half an hour, because food still in your gut does not magically poof into fat at the thirty minute mark.
simple carbs hit your blood stream in and around 30 minutes after consumption where digestion starts in your mouth. Anyway, that wasn't the point. AnnPT77 basically explained it.
I don't think you and Ann are agreeing. You didn't seem to have a problem with"any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat."
And by this, it appears that Ann does:wunderkindking wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?
Into your daily pool where you can spend them for a lot longer than half an hour, because food still in your gut does not magically poof into fat at the thirty minute mark.
At the same time, IMU we can potentially be storing fat, or burning stored fat, throughout the day, depending on a variety of factors.
If we have weight management goals, what matters is the fat "bank balance", not the individual transactions. Net calorie deficit, net fat depletion over time, IMO that's what matters, if the goal is loss.
IMO, endurance athletes maybe need to worry about fueling details, perhaps some with serious health conditions. Us regular folks? Nah, not so much.
I'm ok with you not agreeing.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »wunderkindking wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?
Into your daily pool where you can spend them for a lot longer than half an hour, because food still in your gut does not magically poof into fat at the thirty minute mark.
simple carbs hit your blood stream in and around 30 minutes after consumption where digestion starts in your mouth. Anyway, that wasn't the point. AnnPT77 basically explained it.
I don't think you and Ann are agreeing. You didn't seem to have a problem with"any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat."
And by this, it appears that Ann does:wunderkindking wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?
Into your daily pool where you can spend them for a lot longer than half an hour, because food still in your gut does not magically poof into fat at the thirty minute mark.
At the same time, IMU we can potentially be storing fat, or burning stored fat, throughout the day, depending on a variety of factors.
If we have weight management goals, what matters is the fat "bank balance", not the individual transactions. Net calorie deficit, net fat depletion over time, IMO that's what matters, if the goal is loss.
IMO, endurance athletes maybe need to worry about fueling details, perhaps some with serious health conditions. Us regular folks? Nah, not so much.
I don't have a big problem with"any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat."
other than that it's not a reason not to eat fruit (<= that was the original context), and it's a little too generalized (or maybe not generalized enough?).
I mean, sure, maybe recently eaten calories that aren't burned off relatively soon are going to be stored as fat, even if 30 minutes isn't the precise time horizon.
My point is: Why should I care? I *want* my body to store calories as fat, under the right circumstances, because that's part of what healthy bodies do, and I don't even have to think about it, it just happens. Healthy body knows what it's doing, I figure. It wants to store some calories I ate recently as fat, cool.
Fruit calories, candy calories, peanut butter calories, avocado calories, cheese calories, any calories: Slightly different time horizons and tradeoffs, but they can be stored as fat at the proper time horizon, if not used before. (Betting the fruit ones aren't the ones preferred to store as fat, if there are a full set of other options.)
Thing is, when I calorie count, I want to manage the net over time, let my body deal with "in the moment".
If intake nets out below expenditure, I lose weight. Right now, I'm maintaining, so working to balance the in & out, as my net fat "bank balance". I don't care what my healthy, capable body does to juggle energy stores in the moment, unless I have some endurance fueling issue or something like that, then I might pick a snack in light of what I know about fuel substrate processing/timing (not much).
I can eat fruit pretty much any dang time I please, in that context. It's fine.
I still think it was good that @friedpet dropped that trainer, because the trainer seems to have thought it mattered what happened to the specific fruit calories in the moment. That's silly, IMO, and a trainer should know better. 🤷♀️10 -
neanderthin wrote: »
Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?
If you are in a deficit your glycogen is unlikely to be maxed out.
As Ann said, net is what matters, and IF we were regularly storing carbs as fat and then unstoring it throughout the day, our calorie burn would likely be higher, as the transaction burns some cals. It's cheaper, calorie-wise to store fat as fat, which is why we are likely to burn more of the carbs and store more of the fat when in a surplus.
The main reason what the trainer said is wrong is because it's irrelevant and he was saying it's a reason to avoid fruit.6 -
neanderthin wrote: »
Met with a trainer once who told me to avoid eating fruit on its own because "any excess calories that aren't burned in the next thirty minutes are stored as fat." I did not schedule a second appointment.Some fruits are fast carbs, I don't think anyone would say that fruits are unhealthy because they are fast carbs.
If your glycogen is maxed out where do you think those calories go?
If you are in a deficit your glycogen is unlikely to be maxed out.
As Ann said, net is what matters, and IF we were regularly storing carbs as fat and then unstoring it throughout the day, our calorie burn would likely be higher, as the transaction burns some cals. It's cheaper, calorie-wise to store fat as fat, which is why we are likely to burn more of the carbs and store more of the fat when in a surplus.
The main reason what the trainer said is wrong is because it's irrelevant and he was saying it's a reason to avoid fruit.
Precisely.
Also, if the context is an exercise session (it was IMU), as soon as the person starts moving very energetically at all, their glycogen isn't maxed out anymore, whether they're in a deficit or not.
But that's another thing my healthy body takes care of without my worrying about it, topping up those glycogen stores when it needs to, and can.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I realized in 2004 that I preferred white rice and felt guilty about abandoning brown rice for a long time, but no more!
I believe I first saw this graphic here on MFP:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/brown-rice-vs-white-rice/
I can easily make up that 1 g of protein and fiber elsewhere. Actually, as I type this I am eating cottage cheese and blueberries, so check
FWIW as a type 2 diabetic who tests blood glucose after eating, there’s not a measurable difference in blood glucose rise between white and brown rice either. As you can see, they are nearly identical in net carbs and the added fiber isn’t enough to slow uptake of glucose.
I do see a slight difference between white and sprouted purple rice, but it’s very slight.
However - as a diabetic I find that ALL rice spikes my glucose so much that I choose not to eat any of it. Quick carbs may not cause obesity but they are still not a great idea for people with insulin resistance.8
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