At Goal & Successfully Maintaining. So Why Am I Doing This All Over Again?
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sarabushby wrote: »@springlering62 I have SO enjoyed binge reading this post, please don’t stop writing… I feel the same sadness at reaching page 33 as when you finish a good book!
Also with @AnnPT77 ’s input it’s SUCH a valuable resource for newbies and those of us who’ve been at this a while too.
You even had me looking up Ninja Creamis but I’m trying to persuade myself I’d not end up using it.
I had a cycling accident last year and was forced to stop my regular triathlon training. Normally I train 6 or 7 days a week. I thought I’d gain and be a heffalump in no time but actually my appetite soon reduced right down and actually although I am sure the 6wks off meant I lost muscle mass, I didn’t gain weight compared to pre-accident. And I wasn’t calorie counting at the time.
Just thought I’d throw that out there for anyone who lives in fear that as soon as they stop exercising they’ll overnight pile on the lbs.
I am actually finding the longer I maintain (and I'm not that far in) the more true the appetite adjustment is. I seem to have well and truly broken the habit of eating for assorted psychological reasons. Yeah, I still occasionally go overboard, but my weight hasn't fluctuated more than about 3 pounds in either direction in months.
WITHOUT tracking.
I actually started tracking loosely again because I, um, may have overshot by a few pounds (saw a picture and didn't like what I saw, which seems a commonish experience) so I'm going to slowly add a few pounds back (?!?!? weird).
But these days my appetite seems to adjust down if I cut activity or even after a calorically dense indulgence or day.3 -
wunderkindking wrote: »I actually started tracking loosely again because I, um, may have overshot by a few pounds (saw a picture and didn't like what I saw, which seems a commonish experience) so I'm going to slowly add a few pounds back (?!?!? weird).
I tried to hit “wedding day” weight. Seemed like a good goal, right? Two pounds away, I finally realized I looked, frankly, anorexic. It was a great weight at 25, but at 58, I just looked ill.
I’ve added back seven or eight, look and feel healthier, and you know what? The wedding dress fits. It’s too big, as a matter of fact.
You’re very wise and self aware (in the best kind of way!) to be able to realize you need to adjust.
I wasn’t. It was a bit of an ugly process for me to recognize I was too low. Adding back weight, when you’ve been so fully focused on a goal and engaged in the process, is weird.wunderkindking wrote: »
But these days my appetite seems to adjust down if I cut activity or even after a calorically dense indulgence or day.
This is so true! When I have a very overindulgent day, or even a couple of weeks, like I just had, my appetite is noticeably lower for a while.
I had a really large collection that filled one second-story bedroom. When we moved, I joked that the house sighed “aaaaaaah” when the load was removed.
Sometimes I feel like my body has had a long, silent aaaaaaaah for the same reason, and now rewards me instead of punishing me. (GERD.)3 -
springlering62 wrote: »wunderkindking wrote: »I actually started tracking loosely again because I, um, may have overshot by a few pounds (saw a picture and didn't like what I saw, which seems a commonish experience) so I'm going to slowly add a few pounds back (?!?!? weird).
I tried to hit “wedding day” weight. Seemed like a good goal, right? Two pounds away, I finally realized I looked, frankly, anorexic. It was a great weight at 25, but at 58, I just looked ill.
I’ve added back seven or eight, look and feel healthier, and you know what? The wedding dress fits. It’s too big, as a matter of fact.
You’re very wise and self aware (in the best kind of way!) to be able to realize you need to adjust.
I wasn’t. It was a bit of an ugly process for me to recognize I was too low. Adding back weight, when you’ve been so fully focused on a goal and engaged in the process, is weird.wunderkindking wrote: »
But these days my appetite seems to adjust down if I cut activity or even after a calorically dense indulgence or day.
This is so true! When I have a very overindulgent day, or even a couple of weeks, like I just had, my appetite is noticeably lower for a while.
I had a really large collection that filled one second-story bedroom. When we moved, I joked that the house sighed “aaaaaaah” when the load was removed.
Sometimes I feel like my body has had a long, silent aaaaaaaah for the same reason, and now rewards me instead of punishing me. (GERD.)
Pretty much, exactly the same story all around.
My initial goalweight was just 'inside the healthy BMI' but that was clearly too heavy so I chose a new goal that was my weight around my wedding. Whether because of less elastic skin, different body composition, something else or all of the factors, it just is not right for me 25lbs later. 'Frail' was not my goal and that was the thought that popped into my head when I was those pictures. Visible muscle in places sure, but just... frail. No thanks.
...and yeah, I do not miss GERD at ALL. One of my favorite things about weightloss.4 -
I had a different experience with weight goal than you, @springlering62: I set a higher goal weight than my weight when in my 20s (we can call it "marriage weight", I guess, because I married at 22). I got near that initial goal, and realized I still had more body fat than I wanted.
I think I do look fairly thin, but I don't think I look in any way frail or spidery. (Of course, I may misperceive myself . . . but I think you've seen photos on threads, so you can make your own judgements. I certainly appear thinner in my upper body than many women prefer to be, because I carry my "last off" fat below my rib cage.)
From what I can tell from the fit of clothes (such as the wool kilt I got married in), my body size/shape isn't hugely different now than it was at a similar weight in my 20s - possibly a little different, but not big drama. Well, except the mastectomies . . . but from memory, I think that was only around 4 pounds for both of 'em, per the pathology report, even though the surgery was when I was obese, because I'd always been IBTC.
I do want to be on the thinner side of healthy, if I can find it: My cancer was higher probability for obese women, and the American Cancer Society guidance has been to be at the lightest easily sustainable healthy weight (but not underweight). In addition, I have joint issues (knees, hips), so a lighter weight reduces stress on my joints. However, I'm also osteopenic/osteoporotic - I think significantly from estrogen agonist drugs I took for cancer recurrence mitigation - so achieving lower weight can be a complex issue.
The role of body composition (and configuration) is really major, I think: I was thin and active in college (job and bike/walk transportation amounted to a lot, and I had a daily yoga practice for a couple of years).
Then I . . . decomposed? . . . via inactivity for years, until cancer, then did some recomposition in my 40s/50s while obese after getting pretty active post-cancer-treatment. The bottom line is that at a similar weight to my 20s, I'm not at a dramatically different body composition, as far as I can tell. (It may also be relevant that I've never borne children. I gather that can affect pelvic width, for some women?)
I don't know your details in those ways, but I think it's important for each individual to tune into her own needs, and I agree with you that there can be a dangerous attraction to a specific weight number, when the better attraction really should be to the right weight for our current body composition/configuration, whatever that is . . . and that making that determination can be difficult because of some self-perception limitations (maybe dysmorphia).
In my case, friends/family were useless as a feedback source. (I suspect that's common, but probably not universal.) Other folks are used to seeing us fat, are possibly freaked out as we get thinner . . . not just thinner than we were, but perhaps thinner than average for our demographic. You're lucky to have had your (senior) trainer as a guide. I usually suggest people listen to their doctors over their friends/family, and I think that's generically correct, but even what my primary care doc did was somewhat unhelpful. (The goal weight range he suggested when I started losing kind of freaked him out when I actually got there!)
I may be wrong, but I feel like common perceptions are biased by what is average now - it was commoner in my youth for older women to be slim, but now it's common to be . . . a little more ample?
These are hard questions!5 -
I could and would in no way use my family for judgement of what I should weigh - they'd prefer me about 40 lbs heavier than I am, I think, and societal expectations/what I'm used to seeing would still be a good 20lbs heavier. I'm using body markers mostly. I still have some abdominal fat and, yeah, it'd be nice to see that go.
But also: No.
I could lose 10 more pounds and still be on the lower end of a healthy BMI.
I can also see my individual ribs - not ribcage - not from the side or lower down my body but in my chest.
That's a no for me and how I typically carry weight.
I look ILL, and it's not a thing I 'see' unless I see it in photos but it's just... no.
And more lightly, one of my goals was 'my pants still fit'. This is the result of me getting more active but I need those 5-10lbs back because I have hit my limit on buying new pants.
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I often log a whole week in advance, but usually have at least two or three days pre-logged.
That way, I’m always thinking ahead.
If I’ve scheduled a lot of workouts in a day or two, am I allowing enough fuel for that day? How’s my protein looking, especially on weight days? Or, if Bunco snuck up on me, can I cut for a couple days before or after to enjoy the big spread? Do I need to allow for Kiwanis luncheons and make a meal that I can have an adequate amount while BL has not so much that day? Is this a meal plan I can reasonably expect to get on the table at a decent hour after our mutual 5:30 aquafit class?
Oops, I ate seven servings of tortilla chips at the Mexican restaurant. Where can I cut later in the day to bring me back under?
Pre -logging gives me the ability to make good, informed choices, instead of eating first and asking questions later.
It also puts me in control of grocery shopping. I can quickly scan my meal plan to see what I need to put on my list, which gives me the ability to focus on what I need while in the store, and not the bakery or candy aisle, or the tempting snack food BOGOs. I always include tasty snacks on my shopping list, and I make sure my stomach is full before I go. I seldom leave the grocery with something not on my list.
What’s your experience with pre-logging? PITA, total control, or somewhere in the middle?9 -
I’m finding it really interesting to hear the different perspectives on weight targets, logging, and body composition. On my end, body composition is probably 80% of it. I’m virtually the same weight now as when I first started using MFP 10 years ago but I’d estimate I’m carrying ~15 lbs more muscle than I was at 23, before any semblance of proper lifting. My original healthy/happy weight from high school or college was about 160-165, very minimal lifting, not really eating enough, but not fat and that was my primary objective after growing up always feeling that way. I estimate I got up to about 185 or 190 in the winter of 2011, a point where I was wholly unhappy with how I looked and prompted the first steps to figuring out what a healthier existence as an adult would entail. Interestingly, each of the past two winters I’ve intentionally bulked to 180-185 and even at that elevated weight I don’t necessarily hate how I look or feel, as I know I did at the same weight in the past.
As far as managing “maintenance”, I’ve come to the point where I don’t see results from or have the patience to really do recomping any more so I’m in a pretty consistent, narrow band, bulk & cut cycle. I struggle to get much leaner than about 172 and really don’t enjoy the fluff passed 185, though I can pretty much hang out at ~175 without much difficulty. Via a variety of metrics that should put me at roughly 12% body fat, which is a pretty stark contrast to the 18% or so at 172 I saw when I started gathering devices that would estimate such things. My waist measurement is fairly constant but my chest has grown about 4 inches since I started lifting with any semblance of sincerity in 2015.
In terms of logging and pre-logging, I’m likely in the deep end of the undiagnosed-OCD pool and it shows in my data collection habits. I pre-log at least a full day in advance and have a standard set of protein doses that I stick as much as I can; I even bought a travel food scale that I bring with me to work to verify portable portions. As a control device, logging and measuring doesn’t bother me in the least.8 -
springlering62 wrote: »(snip)
What’s your experience with pre-logging? PITA, total control, or somewhere in the middle?
I'd say I never pre-log, but every once in a while (once a month-ish?) I'll pre-log an approximate dinner if it's late in the day, calories are getting tight, and some nutritional goal important to me is getting challenging given the calorie budget. I usually log after I eat a meal/snack, but occasionally log a whole day after the last meal.
I probably pre-logged individual meals right before making them somewhat more often in the first months of losing weight, when I had less intuitive feel for calorie/nutrient content of things, and I was still working out details of eating patterns that would work well for me.
Pre-logging whole days, let alone multiple days in advance, is antithetical to my impulsive, hedonistic nature. The idea is repugnant, subjectively.
I do have some common patterns for breakfast/lunch, because I wake up ultra-stupid-slowly, so don't like challenges early in my day. Having some standard go-tos for the first meal, maybe 2, supports that.
As far as shopping, I tend to rely on purchasing certain staple foods, keeping a well-stocked freezer and pantry. I don't eat meat/fish, so the only foods where I have to worry about rapid spoilage are some of the fresh veg/fruit, and I eat so many of those that using things up in a timely way isn't usually an issue.
You know you can usually count on me for lifestyle/attitude counterpoint, Spring. 🤣
Repeating myself from elsewhere in this thread and others: I think personalization of tactics is a key success factor for weight management. In the realm of preferences, strengths, and limitations, we're all different.6 -
I pre-log breakfast and lunch on my work days. I usually do this as I'm making my lunch the night before and that informs what I will eat for breakfast. This is just a time-saving thing and also so that I don't forget what I ate at the end of a busy work day.
I have the blessing/challenge in that I am not the main dinner chef of the household. My husband is in charge of the dinner meal on most nights and I don't always know what he's going to make. This involves lots of "what are we doing for dinner?" conversations. I usually just leave a lot of calories for the end of the day so that I don't accidentally go over. It has worked out just fine, but there's no way to pre-log dinner, because he often figures out what we are having "on the fly". (And then I follow him around the kitchen with my phone taking bar code scans of all the food labels. )4 -
springlering62 wrote: »What’s your experience with pre-logging? PITA, total control, or somewhere in the middle?
Not practical at all for me. I have a general idea of what I'll be eating (we plan our meals for grocery shopping reasons) but I don't know beforehand how much of each ingredient:
- I eat a bread meal each day: the kind of bread will depend on what my BF bought in the supermarket and the toppings will vary according to what's available in the fridge and what I feel like eating. I log each sandwich as I make it and stop when I feel I've had enough
- warm meals: I need to log the ingredients and calories for the entire meal, and then I check how big my portion can be (depending on how many calories I have left, how hungry I am and how much my BF eats).
- snacks are logged as I weigh my portion (since my evening snack is the last thing I log, I choose a portion depending on how many calories I have left) and which snack I choose will depend on my mood and what's available
The only time I prelog is when I have leftovers for the next day for and I'm taking them to work.
My exercise routine is much the same, I have a general idea of what I want to do the upcoming week, but not on fixed days. Which is also why I don't prelog my food, since I don't know beforehand how many calories I'll have at my disposal.4 -
I literally don't even plan MEALS before I am walking into the kitchen. Logging them in advance is completely above my ability to manage. I prelog my coffee though so at LEAST my streak is maintained and I remember MFP exists.9
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Worthy of the read, as always. 1st Spring-- how THEY do it, inspiring, admirable--,and then last post, Wunder--reality, sounds much like me. So far, not much pre, but I think it would help.1
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Pre-logging food: I have a remarkable capability for eating the same thing at work, day in and day out. So pre-logging breakfast, lunch, and day snacks for weekdays is easy. Because it's almost always the same thing every day, I know I have plenty of calories left over for whatever the family's eating that night, maybe just an adjusted portion.
I have a general idea of what I'm making for dinner each day anyway, so usually I'll log it in the morning, and adjust as needed in the evening, so that I can have something sweet after dinner. Occasionally I'll be too tired to accomplish Planned Dinner in the evening, but again, plenty of calories, maybe adjust portion, and go from there.
On the weekends, if I'm going to have some high calorie food, I pre-log a "worst case scenario" in the morning and adjust as the day goes. If I don't have anything high-calorie planned, I go with the flow on a weekend day.
ETA I've just realized this is probably my first post in this thread, so thank you very much for this, Spring! I've had a great time reading this and sympathizing.5 -
Pre planning is almost impossible for me, so pre logging would be a disaster. Three or four nights a week dinner is the fish of the day at a local restaurant. Lunch the next day is the leftovers for yesterday’s dinner special.
As much as I intend to stay home and make supper, often after work I just don’t want to cook. So going out if a frequent last minute decision.2 -
I pre-log my dinner and lunch mostly. Not a huge breakfast eater, so I just log whatever it is I eat. But the other two meals allows me to fit in a snack or two, or an evening drink. If I did not pre-log, at this point, I have no doubt I would not be losing as I should.
I had family for an entire week, did not log and did not weigh. I stepped on the scale for the 1st time in 9 days and I was pleasantly surprised that I did not gain. (I was praying just a 2 to 3 lb gain). In fact, I am down 1.5 pounds from last weigh in. But to be fair, I have been bouncing around that 1 to 2 pounds for weeks. So actually a .5 pound down. I will take it with a badge of honor. No weight gain... I think moving more and trying to be mindful in limiting the drinks, treats, and out of normal foods helped.
Do I dare say that maybe I am actually learning the correct way to live and eat? I sure hope so.9 -
I think a lot of the reason I can 'get away with' not only not pre-logging but only loosely logging (or not logging) is the same reason I got away without ever using a kitchen scale while I was in loss: the primary majority of my weight gain and obesity was down to habitual additions of really high calorie things.
I added a LOT of very calorie dense things to meals that would otherwise have been just fine - heavy cream, oil, butter, mayo, salad dressing - and I just... no longer use those and honestly don't miss them. So cutting out A THOUSAND CALORIES A DAY IN CONDIMENTS left a lot of 'wiggle room' for me to eat a candy bar or some ice cream or have some wildly high indulgence once or twice a month.
That said, that realization actually really ticked me off at myself for a while there (early on, before I used the forums). It was like I was trying to make myself fat.
It wasn't QUITE that simple, and I had a few habits I had to get out of there (eat more than 12 grams of protein in a day, stop replacing sleep with food, not believe every opportunity for a treat was the last one I'd ever had etc) but when the biggest culprit in my calorie overage itself was what I was putting ON the food rather than the food itself, I bought myself a lot of leeway.6 -
wunderkindking wrote: »I literally don't even plan MEALS before I am walking into the kitchen.
The concept of trying that gives spikes my anxiety...3 -
Pre-Logging: I usually log my day as I'm drinking my first cup of coffee. I have the same breakfast most mornings (plain Greek yoghurt and berries), and lunch is usually a salad, homemade soup, or leftovers. So it's just a matter of deciding what's for dinner. I tend to grocery shop to re-stock my freezer and pantry with what's on sale that week. So rather than going grocery shopping to fit my meal plan, I meal plan to fit what groceries I have. I find it's generally a more economical way for me to shop. For example, instead of planning chicken breasts and asparagus for dinner, and then going out to buy those items (which may or may not be on sale), I know I picked up a few pork tenderloins last week when they were on sale so tonight I'll have pork tenderloin, and the delicatta squash that I found at a great price. It's what works for me. Most of the time.
As for your younger "ideal" weight looking a little gaunt or frail now that you're older: In a book that I once read it suggested that you take your best weight, which was probably in your early 20's, and if you're now in your late 50's or older, add 7% to that to get a good current weight. I can't remember how they came up with that formula but it worked for me. I felt great in my early 20's at 132 pounds. Add 7% to that and theoretically a good weight for me now would be around 141. And it was. I felt good and I wasn't too thin (which in my opinion can make a woman look older and harsh). I allowed a few pounds to creep back and I'm working on those at the moment, but I know it's a perfectly achievable goal so I'll get back there again.
@wunderkindking "not believe every opportunity for a treat was the last one I'd ever had". That is still something I fight with all the time. ALL THE TIME! Our minds sure play crazy games with us.
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wunderkindking wrote: »….not believe every opportunity for a treat was the last one I'd ever had…..
Oh man, does this ring painfully true.
There was a comedian who had a whole schtick about little kids plotting to get candy and the nefarious things they’d do. That was me. At 56.6 -
Did you ever think you’d find a use for algebra?
If I don’t eat X, how much Y can I eat?
I’ve got X number of calories left over. What can I eat to use those up and in what proportion?
If I eat less of X, do I free up enough room for a little Y?
What % of a serving did I just eat?
Who knew metric was so darn useful?
Why oh why do iPads not come with calculators? Who thought that wasn’t a good idea?4
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