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The US government ruled that ketchup is a vegetable. Ridiculous.
More detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup_as_a_vegetable
https://online.ucpress.edu/gastronomica/article/21/1/17/116213/Ketchup-as-a-VegetableCondiments-and-the-Politics
Related, since this is about school lunch, here are the CPS (a low-income school district) lunch and breakfast requirements for school-provided meals: https://www.cps.edu/services-and-supports/school-meals-and-nutrition/cps-nutrition-guidelines/
Here's the most recent K-8 menu. IMO, sure it seems to be attempting to appeal to kids, but there are real veg and fruit options, and I think trying to incorporate those into a menu the kids will eat isn't a bad idea. I don't think these menus are as bad as people often try to claim US school lunches are.
Personally, back in the '70s and '80s I disliked most of the school lunch options so would normally bring some kind of soup (with veg) in a thermos, some fruit, and a small dessert (I was super picky about bread and most sandwich options so didn't like sandwiches). Occasionally I would bring something like leftover turkey or chicken, maybe a bag of chips, some carrots and/or celery, and a small dessert. I think that was basically fine, even now.
Those guidelines don’t look too bad but are they sticking with it? And…..if ketchup is a vegetable, then those guidelines mean nothing.1 -
westrich20940 wrote: »I work at a school and I am going to just chime in with some info here:
What schools provide have guidelines and restrictions (i.e. they are supposed to be 'nutritional/healthy') but LOTS of school districts are being run on a SHOESTRING budget. That limits what they can provide while TRYING to stick within those guidelines. Also - in many school districts (including mine), MANY students are on the free or reduced lunch programs. This further makes is difficult for schools to provide food to students (including take home food for evenings/weekends) that has high cost.
There are districts where students are coming from low income families and they buy what they can - which often isn't fresh/whole/nutritious food. They buy what's on sale, cheapest, or what they can use SNAP programs for.
I will never ever blame any parent for feeding their child. This is a problem that goes far beyond any individual parent and is far more systematic than people realize sometimes.
If people are interested in trying to help make a difference in the options for children, consider looking for ways to help organizations directly working on this issue:
Summer Food Service Program or No Kid Hungry.
This was a MAJOR issue during covid shutdowns last spring because instead of being worried about children going ~8 weeks without at least one meal per day --- we were worried from March - August. =(
I watched a documentary once where some people investigated the school lunch program in depth. I wish I could remember the name now but I can’t. They found a way to make school lunches healthier and taste better with better quality ingredients for the same budget but the lunch ladies were resistant to change. It made no sense.
Not all, but many kids offered fresh foods don’t even take them because they want to eat junk food that they are used to eating. It is possible to eat healthy on a low budget but this would require parents to change what they are used to eating and many parents are resistant to change too. I grew up poor and we ate relatively healthy so there is no excuse really.
My parents often wouldn’t let me eat the school lunch because it wasn’t healthy. I was also limited because a lot of the lunches had pork, and we are Muslim. I distinctly remember pepperoni and sausage pizza being served at least twice a week with no option for cheese even if i did want an occasional pizza lunch.
I brought turkey or tuna sandwiches, yogurt, soup, leftovers from dinner, carrots, fruits, etc. from home. Parents and schools can do a lot better. In high school, I remember a lot of kids having money to buy real lunch but choosing to spend it on candy, chips, and soda from vending machines. I’m not sure if schools nowadays have these items but I believe they shouldn’t. Given the choice, many kids will choose to eat the unhealthy food. It is sad.4 -
As to the topic of kids' school lunches, it did seem my kids' school was *trying* to improve upon the standard fare. Last year when everyone was doing remote learning and throughout the whole, everyone was entitled to free lunch and breakfast that we'd have to pick up at the school. Some of it was not too bad, like sweet and sour chicken with veggies and brown rice. There was also the standard kid fare like chicken nuggets, hot dogs and cheeseburgers, but they did include a veggie and fruit (even if the "veggie" was salsa--still better than ketchup IMO). The veggies were usually tasteless and steamed from frozen; I like veggies and even I thought they were disgusting. I'd roast them with a little olive oil/butter and salt, but my kids still didn't like them (even though they like a lot of roasted veggies). The fruit was sometimes hard-as-rock oranges or pears--seriously you could injure someone with them.
I'm still curious as to whether or not these kids in the pictures are actually the OP"s students and if so, what her point was in posting them. Was it to get actual feedback as to whether or not it's a concern of hers and how to approach it, or so people could judge and scrutinize? As someone who works with kids (and has her own), I'm actually really bothered if they are the OP's students. I know some people disagree, but I wouldn't dream of posting even a faceless pic of a client on a public forum without the parents' permission, even if it is well-intentioned (like to get professional advice about a tricky case). Most Facebook forums that I'm a part of actually forbid you to do so unless you've gotten permission.
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westrich20940 wrote: »I work at a school and I am going to just chime in with some info here:
What schools provide have guidelines and restrictions (i.e. they are supposed to be 'nutritional/healthy') but LOTS of school districts are being run on a SHOESTRING budget. That limits what they can provide while TRYING to stick within those guidelines. Also - in many school districts (including mine), MANY students are on the free or reduced lunch programs. This further makes is difficult for schools to provide food to students (including take home food for evenings/weekends) that has high cost.
There are districts where students are coming from low income families and they buy what they can - which often isn't fresh/whole/nutritious food. They buy what's on sale, cheapest, or what they can use SNAP programs for.
I will never ever blame any parent for feeding their child. This is a problem that goes far beyond any individual parent and is far more systematic than people realize sometimes.
If people are interested in trying to help make a difference in the options for children, consider looking for ways to help organizations directly working on this issue:
Summer Food Service Program or No Kid Hungry.
This was a MAJOR issue during covid shutdowns last spring because instead of being worried about children going ~8 weeks without at least one meal per day --- we were worried from March - August. =(
I watched a documentary once where some people investigated the school lunch program in depth. I wish I could remember the name now but I can’t. They found a way to make school lunches healthier and taste better with better quality ingredients for the same budget but the lunch ladies were resistant to change. It made no sense.
Not all, but many kids offered fresh foods don’t even take them because they want to eat junk food that they are used to eating. It is possible to eat healthy on a low budget but this would require parents to change what they are used to eating and many parents are resistant to change too. I grew up poor and we ate relatively healthy so there is no excuse really.
My parents often wouldn’t let me eat the school lunch because it wasn’t healthy. I was also limited because a lot of the lunches had pork, and we are Muslim. I distinctly remember pepperoni and sausage pizza being served at least twice a week with no option for cheese even if i did want an occasional pizza lunch.
I brought turkey or tuna sandwiches, yogurt, soup, leftovers from dinner, carrots, fruits, etc. from home. Parents and schools can do a lot better. In high school, I remember a lot of kids having money to buy real lunch but choosing to spend it on candy, chips, and soda from vending machines. I’m not sure if schools nowadays have these items but I believe they shouldn’t. Given the choice, many kids will choose to eat the unhealthy food. It is sad.
Yes the do, even starting at the elementary-age level! I know my kids used to be able to buy one of those ice cream cups or sugary drinks with their prepaid lunch card in like 3rd grade. Now in middle school, I know my son sometimes buys cookies or rice krispie treats. He is a good eater, but has a sweet tooth. We don't typically buy prepackaged stuff like that, but will make them from scratch. I told him he could bring a healthier or homemade treat from home and add it to his lunch, but hasn't done so yet. He just now told me I need to remind him, which is probably true.
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If you're concerned that the nutritional intake of your students is affecting their academic performance, classroom behavior, or overall health, I think that would be an appropriate thing to discuss individually and privately with their parents.
Is there a PTA? Can you reach out to them to share information about child nutrition?
I have my doubts about posting photos of their lunches on a semi-public forum, presumably without parental permission, even though no child is identifiable. Is the point to do something to cause change with your students specifically, educate people here that they shouldn't give their children lunches like this, amplify outrage about parents these days, or what?14 -
The US government ruled that ketchup is a vegetable. Ridiculous.
More detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup_as_a_vegetable
https://online.ucpress.edu/gastronomica/article/21/1/17/116213/Ketchup-as-a-VegetableCondiments-and-the-Politics
Related, since this is about school lunch, here are the CPS (a low-income school district) lunch and breakfast requirements for school-provided meals: https://www.cps.edu/services-and-supports/school-meals-and-nutrition/cps-nutrition-guidelines/
Here's the most recent K-8 menu. IMO, sure it seems to be attempting to appeal to kids, but there are real veg and fruit options, and I think trying to incorporate those into a menu the kids will eat isn't a bad idea. I don't think these menus are as bad as people often try to claim US school lunches are.
Personally, back in the '70s and '80s I disliked most of the school lunch options so would normally bring some kind of soup (with veg) in a thermos, some fruit, and a small dessert (I was super picky about bread and most sandwich options so didn't like sandwiches). Occasionally I would bring something like leftover turkey or chicken, maybe a bag of chips, some carrots and/or celery, and a small dessert. I think that was basically fine, even now.
Those guidelines don’t look too bad but are they sticking with it? And…..if ketchup is a vegetable, then those guidelines mean nothing.
Yes, they follow them. And it appears they are not using ketchup as a veg.4 -
westrich20940 wrote: »I work at a school and I am going to just chime in with some info here:
What schools provide have guidelines and restrictions (i.e. they are supposed to be 'nutritional/healthy') but LOTS of school districts are being run on a SHOESTRING budget. That limits what they can provide while TRYING to stick within those guidelines. Also - in many school districts (including mine), MANY students are on the free or reduced lunch programs. This further makes is difficult for schools to provide food to students (including take home food for evenings/weekends) that has high cost.
There are districts where students are coming from low income families and they buy what they can - which often isn't fresh/whole/nutritious food. They buy what's on sale, cheapest, or what they can use SNAP programs for.
I will never ever blame any parent for feeding their child. This is a problem that goes far beyond any individual parent and is far more systematic than people realize sometimes.
If people are interested in trying to help make a difference in the options for children, consider looking for ways to help organizations directly working on this issue:
Summer Food Service Program or No Kid Hungry.
This was a MAJOR issue during covid shutdowns last spring because instead of being worried about children going ~8 weeks without at least one meal per day --- we were worried from March - August. =(
I watched a documentary once where some people investigated the school lunch program in depth. I wish I could remember the name now but I can’t. They found a way to make school lunches healthier and taste better with better quality ingredients for the same budget but the lunch ladies were resistant to change. It made no sense.
Not all, but many kids offered fresh foods don’t even take them because they want to eat junk food that they are used to eating. It is possible to eat healthy on a low budget but this would require parents to change what they are used to eating and many parents are resistant to change too. I grew up poor and we ate relatively healthy so there is no excuse really.
My parents often wouldn’t let me eat the school lunch because it wasn’t healthy. I was also limited because a lot of the lunches had pork, and we are Muslim. I distinctly remember pepperoni and sausage pizza being served at least twice a week with no option for cheese even if i did want an occasional pizza lunch.
I brought turkey or tuna sandwiches, yogurt, soup, leftovers from dinner, carrots, fruits, etc. from home. Parents and schools can do a lot better. In high school, I remember a lot of kids having money to buy real lunch but choosing to spend it on candy, chips, and soda from vending machines. I’m not sure if schools nowadays have these items but I believe they shouldn’t. Given the choice, many kids will choose to eat the unhealthy food. It is sad.
Probably that Jamie Oliver special set in WVa. I am a bit skeptical about it (documentaries are skewed to make a point, again) and more skeptical that it is broadly applicable to the US, as he cherry picked the area it was set in.7 -
Speakeasy76 wrote: »westrich20940 wrote: »I work at a school and I am going to just chime in with some info here:
What schools provide have guidelines and restrictions (i.e. they are supposed to be 'nutritional/healthy') but LOTS of school districts are being run on a SHOESTRING budget. That limits what they can provide while TRYING to stick within those guidelines. Also - in many school districts (including mine), MANY students are on the free or reduced lunch programs. This further makes is difficult for schools to provide food to students (including take home food for evenings/weekends) that has high cost.
There are districts where students are coming from low income families and they buy what they can - which often isn't fresh/whole/nutritious food. They buy what's on sale, cheapest, or what they can use SNAP programs for.
I will never ever blame any parent for feeding their child. This is a problem that goes far beyond any individual parent and is far more systematic than people realize sometimes.
If people are interested in trying to help make a difference in the options for children, consider looking for ways to help organizations directly working on this issue:
Summer Food Service Program or No Kid Hungry.
This was a MAJOR issue during covid shutdowns last spring because instead of being worried about children going ~8 weeks without at least one meal per day --- we were worried from March - August. =(
I watched a documentary once where some people investigated the school lunch program in depth. I wish I could remember the name now but I can’t. They found a way to make school lunches healthier and taste better with better quality ingredients for the same budget but the lunch ladies were resistant to change. It made no sense.
Not all, but many kids offered fresh foods don’t even take them because they want to eat junk food that they are used to eating. It is possible to eat healthy on a low budget but this would require parents to change what they are used to eating and many parents are resistant to change too. I grew up poor and we ate relatively healthy so there is no excuse really.
My parents often wouldn’t let me eat the school lunch because it wasn’t healthy. I was also limited because a lot of the lunches had pork, and we are Muslim. I distinctly remember pepperoni and sausage pizza being served at least twice a week with no option for cheese even if i did want an occasional pizza lunch.
I brought turkey or tuna sandwiches, yogurt, soup, leftovers from dinner, carrots, fruits, etc. from home. Parents and schools can do a lot better. In high school, I remember a lot of kids having money to buy real lunch but choosing to spend it on candy, chips, and soda from vending machines. I’m not sure if schools nowadays have these items but I believe they shouldn’t. Given the choice, many kids will choose to eat the unhealthy food. It is sad.
Yes the do, even starting at the elementary-age level! I know my kids used to be able to buy one of those ice cream cups or sugary drinks with their prepaid lunch card in like 3rd grade. Now in middle school, I know my son sometimes buys cookies or rice krispie treats. He is a good eater, but has a sweet tooth. We don't typically buy prepackaged stuff like that, but will make them from scratch. I told him he could bring a healthier or homemade treat from home and add it to his lunch, but hasn't done so yet. He just now told me I need to remind him, which is probably true.
Increasingly vending machines or what can be bought from them has been regulated: https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/soda-at-school-more-districts-are-just-saying-no4 -
I have a 11year old and I can’t get him to be in the same room with vegetables. He just won’t eat them, and it’s not for a lack of trying.5
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If you're concerned that the nutritional intake of your students is affecting their academic performance, classroom behavior, or overall health, I think that would be an appropriate thing to discuss individually and privately with their parents.
Is there a PTA? Can you reach out to them to share information about child nutrition?
I have my doubts about posting photos of their lunches on a semi-public forum, presumably without parental permission, even though no child is identifiable. Is the point to do something to cause change with your students specifically, educate people here that they shouldn't give their children lunches like this, amplify outrage about parents these days, or what?
Oh, I'm sure there is enough of the child's face and her distinctive shirt to make her identifiable by people who know her well.10 -
It makes me sad that children live on food like this.
It's poison.4 -
So sad that kids are being started in these habits so young. My school lunches were not perfect, but were much, much better than these. When I think of my struggles to maintain healthy habits as an adult, I can only imagine how much harder it would be if I was starting from habits like this.5
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Walkywalkerson wrote: »It makes me sad that children live on food like this.
It's poison.
Whilst the foods shown in the photos are not the most nutritious options - calling them poison is just silly hyperbole.26 -
I don't know if someone has pointed this out yet, but part of the proliferation of vending machines in schools was an attempt to address funding issues. Schools actually get to keep part of the money made from the vending machines so it's understandable that some schools would think about the programs that could benefit from additional funding and make the decision to install them.
I don't have kids, but I'm more concerned about the possibility of a teacher taking pictures of children and posting them online to "spur debate" or collect opinions on how their parents are doing than I am about a kid having some Kool Aid with their lunch. It doesn't seem respectful. I ask permission before posting a picture of my own nieces and nephews. I know the face wasn't included, but there's enough there that a family member could potentially identify their own child and know that the teacher was discussing them online.20 -
There's some drama in this thread, it seems like, from folks worried about the health future of these children. While that concern may be merited as a generality, I think it's more an issue of all-ages eating patterns across the population, not just kids' lunches.
Observation: I was an only child; my mom let me eat ice cream or Totino's pizza rolls for breakfast, if that's what I really wanted. I didn't always want those, my overall eating was pretty balanced and nutritious, and I'm a nutrition-conscious vegetarian these days. (Been veg for 47+ years . . . .) I'm pretty healthy now, at the advanced-ish age of 65, so the consequences of those breakfasts were minor, I'd say.
These are not necessarily optimal eating choices, but the ones pictured aren't what I'd consider to be inexpensive, so I suspect we're not looking at underprivileged children, and who knows what they eat the rest of the day?
Around here, some of us are inclined to the "there aren't bad individual foods, only overall bad ways of eating". I grant that a meal is a bigger slice than a single food, but still: We're not seeing the whole iceberg. Are you, OP?
P.S. In my childhood, the lunches kids brought were IIRC fairly reasonable, the classic sandwich, apple, maybe a small treat (cookie, say), some carrot sticks - that sort of thing. Most kids wanted to have a "normal lunch", i.e., similar to what other kids were eating.
The food in the school cafeteria was really pretty awful. As I've said here on MFP before, multiple times a week the entree would be *gravy* . . . beef gravy, hamburger gravy, pork gravy, chicken gravy, turkey gravy, etc. It was a generous ladle of gravy that I'd say was made with broth or bouillon and perhaps water (didn't look like milk in there), and a pitifully small number of shreds/crumbles of meat (maybe a quarter of a cup, if you'd packed the meat in a measuring cup?), on top of a large heap of instant mashed potatoes. That was in the large section of one of those three-section plates. In the small sections would be something like a small portion of canned veg (quarter cup or less) such as canned beans or corn or peas, similar amount of iceberg lettuce shreds with vinaigrette and sometimes multi-colored mini-marshmallows (?), maybe a roll or slice of bread. Milk in the tiny cartons on the side (I can't remember if the milk was extra cost.) AFAIK, the portion sizes were the same from elementary through high school - for sure one cafeteria served all the grades, but on staggered schedule. I'm mostly remembering portion sizes from high school, I think.
Maybe that explains the terrible conditions in the world today, that boomers in my neck of the woods had that nonsense for lunch. 🤷♀️ I'm not certain lunchables are materially worse.
My parents were school children in the 1920s (b. 1912, 1917). I don't know as much detail about my mom's daily childhood life, but my dad's family were subsistence farmers, poor ones, with 9 kids. By the end of Winter, he was sometimes going to school with a tin peanut butter pail with cooked dry beans in it, and that's all. There was no "school lunch". Other than among the well-off, I don't think there was some past paradise where most kids got balanced, nutritious meals, or if there was, it didn't last long. Humans are adaptive omnivores; we've survived so far.13 -
TakeTheLongWayHome wrote: »I have a 11year old and I can’t get him to be in the same room with vegetables. He just won’t eat them, and it’s not for a lack of trying.
None of my own kids ever ate vegetables willingly either. And I did an enormous amount of trying to hide them among other ideas. Thankfully they all eat lots of different foods now(probably more than me).paperpudding wrote: »Walkywalkerson wrote: »It makes me sad that children live on food like this.
It's poison.
Ok, while technically not poison, it can act like poison to some children, making them hyperactive, prone to diabetes and heart disease at earlier ages, etc., etc.. I think one of the worst side affects though is I feel that's what they'll end up wanting or craving. I grew up during the Koolaid and Devil Dog era.
And even today, if I could have my way, I'd eat nothing but junk all the time.
Whilst the foods shown in the photos are not the most nutritious options - calling them poison is just silly hyperbole.
I've seen my share of 'you sent *THAT* in your child's lunchbox??' choices. It's really hard to keep your mouth shut when growing children are living on Pepperoni, potato chips and chocolate milk. Not only food choices make me SMH but when children get home from their day at school, they'll spend hours tuning into screens and tuning out of interaction or physical activity.
When I operated an in home daycare, we'd spend as much time as possible outside. What we fed them was determined by what the state told us if we wanted to be on the food program. It's a multiple set of needs to help keep children healthy. Nothing more than the basics as for all of us....sleep, healthy food and exercise.
But so many times tired, stressed out over-worked parents will do what's easy and quick.
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I was a child of the 1980s and went to school in a small town with a strong German and Czech ancestry. The lunch ladies made lunches homemade virtually every day - homemade gravies, yeast rolls, cobbler, fresh vegetables, etc. I remember in high school a few of our lunch ladies grilled the burgers outside on a grill! As these ladies got older and retired, there were fewer and fewer cafeteria workers that cared about the food as those sweet lunch ladies. My junior and senior year of high school, I either brought my lunch every day or ate a large salad or stuffed baked potato from the snack bar. We all missed those homemade lunches ...
I think I raised my two boys (now 19 and 22) to be food snobs of a sort. They actually like grocery shopping and preparing food! They read food labels and do the tsk, tsk when they see something like hydrogenated anything, etc. While my youngest is not the best veggie and fruit eater, my oldest is adventurous. I can count on him to at least try new things.3 -
absolutely shocking
when did they bring back dunkaroos!6 -
more_oomph wrote: »absolutely shocking
when did they bring back dunkaroos!
I am not sure they ever went away.
That said? I am half tempted to purchase this stylish bag.
https://shop.dunkaroos.com/collections/merch/products/belt-bag4
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