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What determines how your life will be?

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  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited December 2021
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    @paperpudding - to me, it's given me direction and it's not all about money. My last five year plan included financial stuff, sure, but the financial stuff was more of a means to an end -- retirement savings, living in a geography that I love, doing more volunteering and charitable endeavors.

    My son and his buddy recruited for me for five years. One time, I asked them to do a five year plan. I always encouraged them to really do what they loved (in areas of recruiting). My son's five year plan was to be in "real estate wholesaleing". I was like, "so that sounds like an interesting addition to recruiting". And he informed me that he didn't love recruiting!

    Long story, but after my hurt feelings recovered, we talked about it and I encouraged him to take steps towards learning that industry and educating himself on it. He now lives in San Diego and he's the "closer" for one of the top real estate wholesaleing companies in SoCal. Further, it was his goal to move from residential to commercial properties. He just closed his first apartment building a month ago.

    Oh, and my son's honesty also encouraged his buddy to tell me that he didn't love "headhunting" either. He's in San Diego too, running one of the largest solar offices in SoCal, managing like 30 people and killing it too. I feel great I was able to mentor these two guys out of an industry that they didn't love.

    To me, five year plans give direction and purpose. No one has to do them, but it adds clarity to my daily activity. And if you go back and look at my five year plan, I've achieved 80% of it (and mine are typically aggressive). And five year plans should be more about what makes you happy, not how much money you should make. If you can combine the two, that's the best of both worlds.

    If I had to name one more thing, it's follow your passions and make that your career. To be completely honest, I hate the day to day of recruiting. It's boring as hell. But around 20 years ago, because I'm an environmentalist/tree hugger, I started targeting startups in renewables and sustainability. At this stage, I'm happy to say I've worked with well over 30 highly disruptive startups and I'm highly sought after as a consultant/advisor by those types of companies (and I'm on the board of one very exciting one).

    IMHO, you can help determine your life's direction or you can allow life to happen to you. I prefer the first option.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,986 Member
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    IMHO, you can help determine your life's direction or you can allow life to happen to you. I prefer the first option.

    Well that is a bit of vague rhetoric IMO and also presents a false dichotomy.

    To me, five year plans give direction and purpose. No one has to do them, but it adds clarity to my daily activity.

    Good. They are a tool that works for you.
    Not one I am a fan of myself.
    I find my life has enough direction, purpose and clarity without 5 year plans.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
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    @paperpudding -- if you are happy and fulfilled in life already (and it sounds like you are), you don't need to do anything different but enjoy it. Nothing wrong with that. I personally wasn't where I wanted to be doing what I wanted to do, so I needed an action plan to get there.

    15 years ago, I was miserable working for some *kitten* people at a company that had very little morals/integrity. My wife had failing health and we were depressed about the weather/rain. Financially we weren't in a great place either. All of that has changed now and it was because of the actions/training/work that both my wife and I did. It certainly wasn't just good fortune or being lucky.

    But if you're 100% content, that's fantastic. And it sounds like you are.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,986 Member
    edited December 2021
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    Sure- like I said, good that the tool of 5 year plans worked for you.

    I didn't say I was 100% content, I dont think that is possible - but whenever I need to make changes in life, I make them without doing 5 year plans
    That doesnt mean doing no actions, training or work and just relying on luck or good fortune - another false dichotomy: use 5 year planning or just rely on luck.
    I disagree with your statement of strongly recomending them I think they are a load of twaddle.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
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    paperpudding wrote: »
    Sure- like I said, good that the tool of 5 year plans worked for you.

    I didn't say I was 100% content, I dont think that is possible - but whenever I need to make changes in life, I make them without doing 5 year plans
    That doesnt mean doing no actions, training or work and just relying on luck or good fortune - another false dichotomy: use 5 year planning or just rely on luck.
    I disagree with your statement of strongly recomending them I think they are a load of twaddle.

    Fair enough. I should have said action steps or habits, but you have to take some sort of actionable steps if you aren't happy.

    Relationships (which I only touched on) were found to be the key to happiness by a Harvard study 75 years ago. I still think that holds true.

    I hate to admit this but I'm an introvert that could keep to myself with just my animals and my wife/kids and be completely content. My wife, on the other hand, is a social butterfly and needs interaction/relationships to be happy. Part of my action plan was to put us (geographically) in an area where we could maximize those possibilities and that's been rewarding for us.

    I would guess you also have a strong social network and great relationships (something that's natural for some, not for me).
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,986 Member
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    Fair enough. I should have said action steps or habits, but you have to take some sort of actionable steps if you aren't happy

    Yes that I do agree with. If something needs changing, you need to do something about changing it.
    I would guess you also have a strong social network and great relationships (something that's natural for some, not for me).

    Yes I think that is true about me.

    Bottom line: different things make different people feel happy and successful in life and people have different tools/ actions/ strategies to achieve those.

    And on that note,I think we have exhausted our little hijack of the thread and better leave it there

    Thanks for the debate

    Cheers,

    Paperpudding.




  • Rsrs35
    Rsrs35 Posts: 46 Member
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    Your past does not define your future / and that goes for your childhood and the way you were raised.

    You have a choice about what you keep and what you don’t and how you let it affect you.

    My advice is that if your past is affecting you now - see a therapist or talk to someone you can trust.

    Get it off your chest.

    Deal with it.

    Look at patterns of how these issues affect you and why they make you feel the way you do.

    Sometimes we choose to be around people who make us feel the same way we felt as a child or in a certain scenario, because we have been made to believe that is safe - but it’s not always the case.

    So challenge yourself, find YOUR WHY, do what makes you happy and remove energy zapping people and forces from your life.

    It’s hard work / yes. Can take years or even your whole life. But it will be worth it. Especially when others take a leaf out of your book.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,070 Member
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    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    Just five things that I strongly believe influence success in anything.

    I read a fantastic book by Jo Boaler called Limitless Mind. Most people look at the book and believe that it's geared toward teaching. It's actually a book on how your mind learns and how it's "limitless" if you believe that you learn from mistakes, welcome mistakes and learning plateaus, understand you will get through it eventually, learn collaboratively and believe that you can do it. Should be required reading for every teacher and high school student because it applies to life and it's all science based.

    Years ago, they did a study with kids and followed them for years. The ability to put off instant gratification was the highest trait in those with the most success. That's something that's sorely lacking in today's parenting. We give kids (immediately) whatever the hell they want. That's actually child abuse in my honest opinion. You're setting your kids up for failure. Teach them, instead, good things come with sacrifice, hard work and patience. Make them wait on things. Don't hand them cell phones at 2.

    Stanford University did a study years ago following people that did goal planning versus those that didn't. Those that did were widely more successful than those that didn't following them for around a decade (I believe). I've always been a strong believer in five year planning. Start with where you want to be and work backward. Franklin Planner seminars are great. Panda Planner is also a wonderful tool.

    A support structure starting with parenting. Present parenting. Enough said. Give your kids at least a moral compass for starters. A strong community structure can certainly replace parents that aren't there.

    Ability to communicate. And, I believe, this can be learned. My wife wasn't particularly good at school (she was dyslexic and it never got diagnosed). In adulthood, she's learned to spell, studied vocabulary, even taken up a lot of reading. I was a terrible/petrified public speaker. I joined Toastmasters and learned to communicate in front of others. After five years, I was the best speaker in my club. I was horrific to start and that's not an exaggeration.

    I'm sure there's more but one other that comes to mind (I see this all the time as a high-level recruiter for over two decades) -- conflict resolution skills. I don't know where these went, but they are sorely, sorely needed in business. It's the most common ability I see lacking in the workforce, whether it's laziness, no one has ever taught them, intentional avoidance or immaturity. But people cannot address difficult decisions and confront others and tell them honestly and openly how they feel and that's a real shame. That's how things progress.

    I think you're making a good, coherent argument here. Still, as you might guess, I have a few quibbles.

    If the experiment you're talking about is the Stanford Marshmallow Experiment, my gut likes its conclusions a lot, based on personal experience with humans (including myself). However, there have been some quite thought-provoking critiques of that experiment, including a more recent variation on the experiment that tried to remedy some deficiencies in the original study's design, and ended up not replicating the previous experiment's conclusions (of course, there have been further critiques of that study as well . . . .). I want to believe the original, I really, really do.

    I'm also not - in personal behavior - a fan of 5-year planning. I see that it can be very effective, but I think there are personal style issues, i.e., it's not the only way to achieve success. Personally, I tend to be more opportunity-oriented than plan-oriented.

    Like you (or as I understand your comments here, at least), I believe that if people want some aspect of their life to change, they have to change it.

    Personally, I tend to have a boatload more "it would be nice if" ideas than I can possibly play out in my life: I'm interested in way too many things, can slip toward dilettante-ism, even. Given some discontent to be remedied, or some open-ended desire to progress, I tend to shop around for the next opportunity that leads toward something I want. (That can be quite active seeking, but it's "what opportunities are available now that lead in some desirable direction", rather than "I have some specific place(s) I want to be in 5 years so I'll look for the next step in that direction".)

    There's a bidirectional interplay between the opportunities that happen to present themselves and the goals that I happen to choose. I may end up never doing some thing that I long thought I wanted to do, but I also have ended up many times doing something that was really excellent/life-changing/delightful that I never would've thought to put in a 5-year plan (and quite possibly would've missed if I'd been really goal driven).

    I suspect, though, that to the extent such an approach leads to "success", it's a type of success that they wouldn't have been looking for in the Stanford study looking at the role of goal planning. The approach I've found more natural is IMO very unlikely to lead one to become CEO of a Fortune 500 corporation, but IME has borne decent fruit in terms of personal satisfaction, contentment, happy life.

    I agree that communication skills are important and useful, but it's interesting to me that the examples you mention are more about one side of the communication process, the part where we strive to project our thinking out into the world. To me, the essential other half is trying equally diligently to understand what other people are trying to communicate (even when they aren't necessarily being terrible effective at doing it), including things like active listening, empathy, etc. That side of the communication process, IMO, is super important to learning (and important to that in diverse ways!), for getting along with other people generally, and specifically to the conflict resolution skill that you do mention. Someone who can't listen well, isn't going to resolve many interpersonal conflicts.

    I don't think any of what I've said above bears very strongly on Reenie's OP questions, though. I think the questions she's asking have extremely complex, nuanced answers in practice, with a variety of factors that can either compensate for deficiencies in other factors, multiply the positive or negative effects of other factors, and generally interact in complicated way. Those factors can be genetic, be related to upbringing, grow out of culture/subculture/religion, involve security, reflect adult role modeling (bad and good both), and all kinds of things. There's luck in that mix, both good and bad, too.

    I'm not sure how I'd define "successful", but I feel "successful enough" in my own terms. If I go back to the old workhorse, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I have (and have had) the basic levels pretty well covered, and perhaps some closer to the top. Some of that comes from what I'd call privilege, but not the 'silver spoon' type. I was born in a lower middle class, blue collar, rural family, but they were people of good character, maturity, intelligence, and self-education (not vast amounts of formal education). (I'd be a better woman if I better lived up to them, frankly.) One of the biggest benefits they gave me, as I see my life now, was a rock-solid secure childhood: Secure in food/clothing/shelter, sure; but also emotionally and psychologically secure in major ways. That was a huge gift, and an excellent start.

    Still, people succeed, by many definitions, without any of that foundation. The OP question is really hard, I think.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited December 2021
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    @annpt77- as always, your points are all great. And, yes, listening is something important I didn't mention (but a very important part of Toastmasters that is built in). I've read Stephen Covey's Seven Habits until the pages are wore out. One of the basic tenants, of course, is listening. That's actually the greatest compliment, in my mind, any business consultant can hear -- "you were really listening to me...".

    And yes, many of us, even those that grew up middle or lower middle class with simply the basic necessities and a two parent strong support system definitely had a leg up. My upbringing actually sounds a lot like yours.

    And my five year plans have, many times, changed. That's always what you learn about five year plans. They are dynamic and you have to adapt to how life changes. That's actually part of the process. If you start with the end in mind -- what they actually teach you with Franklin Planner training is to imagine what you want people to say about you when you die. And also to write a descriptive narrative about yourself, how you see yourself, in present terms (even if you haven't reached those lofty goals yet). As you would imagine, monetary accomplishments aren't high on the list. It would be a very shallow person that says they want someone to say about them, "he had a lot of stuff...". That's certainly not what is in my planner as the end goal.

    Those five year plans, if well designed, are more just longer term action plans bringing you closer to that final piece -- what you want to be remembered for. Top of my priorities were to be a good Father, Husband, friend and volunteer. Beyond that to make a difference with my work, be a mentor and donate much more to charitable endeavors. Also to live a healthy, active and social retirement. Pretty basic stuff and other than being a means to an end, none if it about stuff.

    To your point about Renee's question, it's the classic nature versus nurture. I was a Psych major. I'm very sympathetic and empathetic to those factors and I've not been unexposed to hinderances myself -- my mom was a pill addict, there was severe depression and mental illness in my family as well. While we weren't dirt poor, there were times we had just crackers and Kroger Yellow Tag Peanut butter. But I wasn't ever abused, physically or mentally. My wife was as a child (verbally) and it was pretty brutal stuff at times.

    But the thing is, there are levels of family dysfunction. Someone can be born very wealthy, financially speaking, and turn out terribly. Everyone has some levels of it growing up. Some much more so and, because of that, much more to overcome. Having been raised and living in So Ohio most of my life, I was witness to the ground zero, so to speak, of the heroin/fentanyl epidemic in the US. Cincinnati/Dayton area lost more people to drug overdoses than anywhere in the US, initially at least. I knew people very well that were affluent and had kids with every advantage you could imagine and still lost their kids to drug addiction/depression.

    There are people that can overcome huge obstacles, for whatever reason, and achieve. I'm not sure what qualities makes those people be able to rise to the next level. In part, for me personally (not that I had to overcome much compared with some), with my mom being out of it most of the time, it was my academic achievements which got attention and I craved that. That and sports which I think helped me tremendously. I was socially awkward, which I had to adapt and overcome. The sports part helped with that.

    If I wish I had anything more, in terms of support, would have been the knowledge and training that I came from a family of addiction (on one side) and also depression/mental health awareness. Because I've also suffered from both personally, I've talked to my kids honestly about both. Essentially giving them awareness that addiction and depression are prevalent in their genes and there's nothing wrong with them but the awareness is a great tool to have.

    @rsrs35 - also all solid advice.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,070 Member
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    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    (snip lots of good, useful, insightful stuff for reply length)

    But the thing is, there are levels of family dysfunction. Someone can be born very wealthy, financially speaking, and turn out terribly. Everyone has some levels of it growing up. Some much more so and, because of that, much more to overcome. Having been raised and living in So Ohio most of my life, I was witness to the ground zero, so to speak, of the heroin/fentanyl epidemic in the US. Cincinnati/Dayton area lost more people to drug overdoses than anywhere in the US, initially at least. I knew people very well that were affluent and had kids with every advantage you could imagine and still lost their kids to drug addiction/depression.

    (snip more goodness)

    I'm aware this is perhaps a digression for this thread, though I'm not positive.

    People often say that all families are dysfunctional, just in different ways or degrees. I guess that's true, in a statistical sense.

    But, 100% sincerely, it just doesn't resonate for me, personally. I feel like I hit the parental/situational jackpot. I perceive my immediate family situation in childhood to have been near zero, maybe absolute zero, on the dysfunction scale. I literally can't imagine how it could have felt more loving, nurturing, and secure. I had no way to know it at the time, but looking back I think I was ridiculously, undeservedly lucky.

    I didn't turn out to be that fortune 500 CEO, or Mother Theresa, or anything, so maybe a completely secure childhood is not 100% a good thing. Saps ambition? It felt great, though, and I think contributed to relative happiness and satisfaction in adulthood.
  • ythannah
    ythannah Posts: 4,365 Member
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    paperpudding wrote: »
    I consider myself to be successful, according to my own criteria given upthread, and I have never ever done 5 year plans.

    Ditto. I decided to go back to school and do a master's degree on the spur of the moment. Same with buying a bigger/nicer house (which entailed getting my old house ready for sale while finishing off that master's and working full-time). There was definitely no planning involved there! I'm possibly the least spontaneous person ever but, in retrospect, everything that is really good in my life has come about as the result of a completely spontaneous decision.

    I am now three years past retirement eligibility and have absolutely no idea when I'm going to retire. :D
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,986 Member
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    I didn't turn out to be that fortune 500 CEO, or Mother Theresa, or anything, so maybe a completely secure childhood is not 100% a good thing. Saps ambition? It felt great, though, and I think contributed to relative happiness and satisfaction in adulthood.

    Oh I dont know, I feel ambition is over rated myself

    These people who are really ambitious and driven and have to be the best and most at everything 'type A personalities'- are they really happier??
    I think there is a lot to be said for accepting where you are at and being happy with not being the top level of everything.

    I am not super ambitious and I didnt become CEO of the world either - but I am happy in the job I do and I do my best at it and I have earned comfortable enough money without becoming the richest person in the world

    Most of us really will be ordinary people doing ordinary jobs and earning ordinary money - and thats OK

    Usual disclaimers:
    it is not a false dichotomy between Strive to be CEO of the world and lying on the beach doing nothing all your life
    Everyone is different and what makes different people feel happy and successful varies - but IMO we all need work/life balance and not to be so driven by ambition that we lose sight of the other things in life.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,454 Member
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    Haven't seen work ethic mentioned.

    Work ethic is a belief that work and diligence have a moral benefit and an inherent ability, virtue or value to strengthen character and individual abilities.[1] It is a set of values centered on importance of work and manifested by determination or desire to work hard. Social ingrainment of this value is considered to enhance character through hard work that is respective to an individual's field of work

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_ethic

    Note, it's my belief that strong work ethic transfers over to good in one's personal life.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,070 Member
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    I've been giving this more thought.

    I suspect that pursuing and achieving "success" (in many definitions) requires that there be some discontent, discomfort or something like that. Y'know, like the irritant that causes the pearl to begin growing?

    Maybe if one's too contented where one is, accomplishment is more likely to stall? Why bother, if things are happy as they are?

    There could be a sweet-spot range, enough discomfort/discontent to spur action and change, but not so much that one is discouraged from even trying to improve things. (Those thresholds would certainly differ for different people.)

    We all know the tropes, like the scion of a well-off happy family who goes nowhere in life, or maybe even heads downhill despite "all the advantages". Maybe too comfortable, used to good things arriving with no effort input?

    Just a thought, as one possible factor.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
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    @AnnPT77 - or, like in my case, everyone is relying on you. My wife is currently disabled with a foot that desperately needs surgery (and a back surgery needed). To afford surgeries in the US being self-employed, you're likely talking 30K this year out of pocket. I'm fortunate enough to have that but I'd rather not dip into retirement or savings.

    I completely get what most are saying on here -- 5 year planning isn't necessary, I just put it out there that it helped me tremendously. There were times in my life (mostly with the mental health and addiction parts in my 20s) where one day at a time was all I could and should have managed.

    But when you're mostly from a one income family and you're relied upon as the head of household to help put your kids through college, prepare for retirement and also have enough for medical care in the US and comfortable older years (where I can actually do some things for me, which I haven't done in decades because I've been taking care of everyone else), it does take some planning. There was a financial planning company (obviously biased) that did a study on planning for retirement -- they said over 60% of those that did were happy versus 20 something percent that didn't). And with the rising costs of healthcare and the status of Social Security in the future (and inflation on top), for me it simply reverts back to the hierarchy of needs -- health, shelter, food. I came from a family where that stuff wasn't taken for granted. Perhaps that's the A type personality in me. IDK. I think there is something to be said growing up on the edge, so to speak, with fear that you might not make it financially. My kids, unfortunately or fortunately, also grew up with that -- lots of love but also some financial fear and uncertainty.

    I also paid for all my own college. Something nearly impossible these days, but I was pretty brutally poor going through school. It makes a huge difference if you're living off of mommy and daddy's credit card in college versus working 50 hours a week during exam weeks. Perhaps that drives me too.

    My wife and I (and kids) have been pretty poor (like Govt Cheese/formula poor) and also affluent by most measures. Having the necessities and not worrying about them sure beats the alternative. But it's also something my wife doesn't have to think or worry about now. She's not a planner because she doesn't have to be. It's ironic, she's always saying I should be more spontaneous. I wish I had that leisure to be!! I guess I feel I owe her that -- she met me when I didn't have a dime and just getting over addiction. And perhaps my present mindset affected a lot of my responses -- as you alluded to -- your current circumstances affect a lot of your actions or inactions toward a different result.

    I guess what I'm saying is relationships, food, shelter, comfort and love -- the basics -- are still what drives me, regardless of the way I came across initially. And as to what @ythannah mentioned, I'm a firm believer in life/work balance, believe it or not. My son approached me with some real estate investments just this week and I said no because I don't need the stress of it at my age, though it likely could mean a lot more revenue.
  • tnh2o
    tnh2o Posts: 158 Member
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    I've had a five year plan since I was 16 yet by most measures - including mine - I have been spectacularly UNsuccessful.

    But things could be a whole lot worse and I'm in a relatively good spot now.

    @ReenieHJ It doesn't hurt if you happened to have been born a white male.
  • autobahn66
    autobahn66 Posts: 59 Member
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    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    Haven't seen work ethic mentioned.

    Work ethic is a belief that work and diligence have a moral benefit and an inherent ability, virtue or value to strengthen character and individual abilities.[1] It is a set of values centered on importance of work and manifested by determination or desire to work hard. Social ingrainment of this value is considered to enhance character through hard work that is respective to an individual's field of work

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_ethic

    Note, it's my belief that strong work ethic transfers over to good in one's personal life.

    I firmly disagree. Both that work has value in its own right and that a dedication to work necessarily benefits one's personal life.

    With regard to good in one's personal life:

    I come from a traditional background, where work ethic is highly celebrated. I confound my value as a person so highly with my work, and with my ability and dedication to achieving my work, that it has been a detriment to my physical and mental health. It has been extremely difficult to decouple my work and my value as a person.

    To complicate matters, I work in a profession that is widely considered to be doing work that is good and has value. Combining this with an uncontrolled 'work ethic' leads to either guilt (at taking the time required to rest in order to work effectively, even though remaining would very likely benefit the work) or working inappropriate hours to try to make the work perfect in an imperfect world.


    With regard to the inherent value of work:

    I work diligently because failing to do so would put others at risk. If I could change the circumstances of my work to allow me to work less diligently, with less time or focus, then I would do that. In a utopia most, if not all, my work would be automated, and it would likely be better for all involved. Perhaps my job would still exist as a transducer or communicator, gathering inputs and feeding back outputs of a perfect decision-making machine.

    Some work is educational: due to the nature of my job, I have been 'training' for 15 years (give or take) and in this case, the process of work has value, as indeed it does improve my ability to do my job through experience. But many people work hard to make this so. It take phenomenal work from others to allow someone to do work that is valuable to their educational needs for such a long time. If I was doing the same thing for 15 years, then the value of that work to me would be nil.

    But much of the 'work' that is done is not educational, has no inherent virtue beyond the output of the work (which may or may not have value in its own right), and does not improve the character or abilities of the person doing it. Whether it is achieved with diligence or with a lackadaisical whimsy is inconsequential: so long as the outcomes of the work are the same (i.e. a task was completed to a suitable standard and appropriate payment was given).

    I accept that there is substantial evidence that people who work do better in many ways than those who don't. I am willing to go so far as to say that some of that benefit extends beyond the fact that those not in work are likely to have confounding factors which make them less healthy and happy than those who are able to work. But I believe this is a function of larger, non-ideal systems which encourage a strong work ethic to the benefit of large institutions to the detriment of most working people.
  • Xerogs
    Xerogs Posts: 328 Member
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    In my opinion success is always a work in progress and you have to be OK with failing to appreciate any success in your life. I think it boils down to each individual on how they define their own success and pursue it. I've seen children raised by the same parents in the same manner have very different outcomes in life. Even in different financial scenarios there can be very different outcomes in how people deal with navigating their life. Some people I know with a very wealthy upbringing don't seem to have the coping skills to deal with adversity and they sometimes implode as a result.

    In my own personal journey there were moments in my life where I took stock of where I was and where I wanted to be so it changed my behavior. I also had to be OK with the outcome of that decision even if it didn't bear fruit. Taking a very long look at my life allowed me to let go of my past and not use it as an excuse to not try to make things better. It's easy to blame my own shortcomings on things that happened in my past but really those things are necessary to shape who I am today. I can't change my past but I can use it to guide my decisions in the present moment to help shape my future. Worrying about the past or future a great deal is wasted energy but that is not to say you shouldn't take note of each to help yourself out. Having flexible goals has shaped my current level of success in general (both life and work)

    So to me its each individual has the ability to define their own success and not wallow in the pity swamp so to speak. Introspective people seem to surround themselves with great support systems no matter their upbringing and seem to generate their own success and not take if for granted. None of this is very easy and it takes time to develop the tools you need to navigate the highs and lows of life.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
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    tnh2o wrote: »
    I've had a five year plan since I was 16 yet by most measures - including mine - I have been spectacularly UNsuccessful.

    But things could be a whole lot worse and I'm in a relatively good spot now.

    @ReenieHJ It doesn't hurt if you happened to have been born a white male.

    It might surprise you to hear that I mostly agree with you, especially historically. But over 25 years in recruiting, I have seen things improve, in some cases dramatically.

    Though early in career, I saw sexism and potential racism blatantly applied, I've also seen corrective actions to rectify past discriminatory hiring practices. I've been lucky enough to participate in two Fortune 100 diversity initiatives that were active in hiring racially diverse candidates and women. One program had an HR "kickback" to hire women/minorities over white males. Basically, "headhunting" fees didn't get counted out of their HR budget if they hired a woman or a minority candidate. Another (the largest Building Products company in North America) had historically very little diversity and women in that industry. So they aggressively hired women and minorities into entry level roles and also into higher level roles.

    I spent six months finding women and minority MBA grads to fill entry level VP candidates for them and they specifically said, while they would "look at" white male candidates, they certainly weren't the priority. That can be an acceptable and completely legal business practice in order to balance out an industry to reflect the demographics of the population and avoid lawsuits for discrimination, even if not intentional. Many industries like concrete, cement or asphalt Construction don't have minorities/women in the ranks. So, it's not as simple as "hire the best person that's the most qualified for the job...". That's BS. With decades of nepotism as the means of hiring, all that existed within that industry were white males. That's changing rapidly and I'm proud to have been a small part of that change. I hired in an HR Manager that hired in a diverse (black male) HR Mgr that became their "Champion" of North American Diversity and he called me to ask me to work with them to help implement that. Both were two of most talented HR professionals I've ever worked with in my career (and the other I remember most fondly were female but in different industries).

    Being a Construction headhunter (I split time between construction and high-tech startups), I also have at least a half dozen clients that are DBEs (diversity business enterprises) that get a lot of their business because larger cities require a certain percentage of women and minority owned participants for any construction. And this process has been improved. It used to be common that white males would set up sham companies with their wives or a minority friend and use it as a front to win more business to skirt around these diversity requirements. I've seen many of those people prosecuted for fraud (and rightfully so). One high profile one in my hometown of Cincinnati.

    I also follow and am connected with some women owned VC (Venture Capital firms) that only invest in women owned companies and that's fantastic! I also know some Black VCs that only invest in black owned businesses too! Things are changing for the better.

    But I've also been on the other side of that and I'm not mad at all about it (in scholarships and at work where it was clear that only women or minorities would get money or promotions to catch up for past discretions). My daughter was too. She was a Valedictorian and had to go out of state to get any financial help because she was white. We were literally told that by a financial aid counselor in Ohio. And I understand that completely. BTW, my daughter worked her tail off and ended up getting the last two years full academic scholarship, including room and board.

    I'm hopeful that we will soon reach a time where upbringing, culture and support, as well as financial head starts, mean more than race or gender. And I know that it's a huge difference between getting hired and being treated the same within the workplace, but even that is changing, perhaps more slowly.

    But this mostly ties in with financial success, which certainly contributes to happiness.

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